Sunday chat: Series decided by heavyweight bout

Knotted up at one a piece, ace lefties Cole Hamels (2-2, 4.95) and C.C. Sabathia (4-3, 3.43) take the mound in the rubber match between the Phillies and Yankees. First pitch is 1:05.

Regardless of how it ended, the Phils should be pleased to arrive at today's deciding game at an even split, knowing they've played a very good series so far, Saturday's ninth inning notwithstanding. The Phillies hope to put yesterday's heartbreaking loss behind them against Sabathia, the giant lefty Shane Victorino and the Phillies toppled in Game 2 of the NLDS. One minor transaction to pass along: the Phillies traded minor league right-hander Justin Lehr to the Cincinnati Reds for cash considerations. Lehr is a non-prospect.

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Comments

[the one]

over on steve lauber's blog it said

Since FOX showed the wrong guy on screen, here's a picture of the real John Mayberry Sr....Still not sure who the guy in the Panama jersey was, but I'll bet he's proud of his children, too. "

[Andy]

In re: the Lehr deal
Think it's enough to offset the Thome money?

In actuality, I'm guessing they're making roster space for somebody. Which could be a good thing no matter what direction that person is heading.

[Billy Mac]

On Lehr: The Phils don't have a spot with at least 3 ahead of him: Kendrick, Carrasco, and Carpenter. They are doing him a solid.

Zolecki tweets: "Chase Utley gets the day off today against CC Sabathia. Eric Bruntlett is playing 2B and hitting eighth."

[mikes77phillies]

Lehr is 32 years old and has average stats in AAA. They had to create a spot for Bastardo.

[johnnysanz3]

I never like seeing Bruntlett at 2b and hitting instead of Chase Utley, our best hitter.

[Raul Ibanez]

"...Chase Utley, our best hitter."

I guess leading in OPS and the Triple Crown categories does'nt mean much these days.

[Chase Utley]

Utley is God.

[CJ]

It's a shame we've out-played the Yankees for 17 out of 18 innings and only have a split.

I'd imagine our lineup today is:

Rollins
Victorino
Ibanez or Werth
Howard
Werth or Ibanez
Mayberry or Feliz
Feliz or Mayberry
Bruntlett
Ruiz

[Billy Mac]

Mayberry hitting 6th

[IOP]

I don't understand the people that question whether Lidge is hurt. Lidge clearly is hurt, that is not in question. He is wearing a special insole in his shoe to take pressure off his injured knee. That is a pretty drastic measure for someone to take if they are not hurt.

The pertinent question is whether the injury is affecting how he is pitching. He was healthy last season and was nearly untouchable. There is no reason to believe that he suddenly doesn't have any ability anymore. His velocity is not down and his slider looks devastating. The problem is that he is not locating either pitch consistently, which means that batters can basically go up and play the odds that they might be walked just by taking pitches. Plus, once Lidge gets behind, they can usually sit on his fastball.

I think it is evident that the knee injury is affecting how he pitches. The location doesn't just leave a pitcher like that for an extended period of time. Well, it is possible that it could, however, when there is an objectively quantifiable reason as to why that might be occurring (knee injury altering his mechanics), it is reasonable to believe that that in, in fact, the cause. That, IMO, makes much more sense than any assumption that he has just lost the ability to pitch, which is clearly not the case considering that his velocity is there and the bite on his slider is still there.

[Billy Mac]

Lineup via Zolecki

Today's lineup at NYY: Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Ibanez DH, Howard 1B, Werth LF, Mayberry RF, Feliz 3B, Bruntlett 2B, Ruiz C. Hamels P.

[Phils Suck]

How funny is Mitch Williams on MLB Network trying to talk rationally about the Mets

[denny b.]

"How funny is Mitch Williams on MLB Network trying to talk rationally about the Mets?"

Probably about as rational as Ron Darling trying to talk rationally about the Phils on TBS.

[Klaus]

This is funny too:

"We're taking our division back. You know, the one we've been on top of more over the last three years than ANY TEAM IN THE MAJORS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISION. Yea, that one. The NL East. It's ours, and we're taking it back."

--Phils Suck, on the Mets

[Billy Mac]

Mets win two in a row and the rats come out of hiding.

[CJ]

Anyone know why Twins-Brewers is the Sunday night game on ESPN instead of Yanks-Phils? The defending World F-in Champions vs. baseball's most popular team in the new Yankee Stadium? And now it has the sizzle of Hamels vs. Sabathia?

What a lost opportunity.

[Rich B]

Stop on over to my blog on the Phillies

to see the heavyweights ready for battle!

Me and Beerleaguer must have been thinking along the same lines!

www.fightinphillies.com

[Jay]

CJ, ESPN has to pretend that there are other teams in baseball besides the Yanks, Sox and Mets.

[Andy]

I think I'd rather
a) play Myers at 2B than Bruntlett
b) DH for the 2B and let Hamels bat
c) Change Bruntlett's name to something like Szilagyi or Schattschneider so that Chollie would never WANT to write it in.
d) Hide Bruntlett (in a 73-year old widow's garden next to the birdbath with the blue mirror ball in it under the Japanese maple that has the birdfeeder that those darned squirrels always eat the sunflower seeds out of) so Chollie can't find him when it's time to fill out the line-up card; or

[Andy]

e) Get a utility guy who can, like, HIT.

[Klaus]

CJ, do you mean to say that you're not 1000 percent stoked to see Dave Bush square off against Scott Baker?

[CJ]

Klaus: Unfortunately, I didn't play fantasy baseball this year, so I have NO interest in Bush vs. Baker.

[Tray]

Mauer is pretty hot right now.

[NEPP]

Giants are shopping Matt Cain and want help on offense.

Do we have a potential match there?

[bay_area_phan]

Seriously, what's this BS with starting Eric Bruntlett? Did Cholly bet money on the Yankees?

We're going up against one of the best pitchers in baseball and our manager thinks that our best chance to win comes by benching the best second baseman in baseball and replacing him with the worst? I know Bruntlett is beloved by both Cholly and Beerleaguers alike, but he might well be one of the 10 worst hitters on a major league roster right now. This is certifiably insane.

[Sophist]

Maybe people have different feelings about this, and value is relative to what's in the market, but Matt Cain has had one of the highest FB% in baseball for the last few years. Usu in the top 10 of SP at around 44-45%. Of course, last year when he was 8th in FB% he was 6th in HR/FB. But three of his teammates were in the top 7 with him.

[NEPP]

Utley needs days off like any other player. Remember he did just have major hip surgery and has been battling a bad foot. Its not Bruntlett's fault there are no other options to play 2B on the bench.

[Billy Mac]

NEPP, you sit Utley at Yankee stadium in the rubber game ?? Utley won't play at Yankee stadium again for 6 years unless they meet at the World Series. They have an off day on Thursday and you play the Nats next weekend if you want to rest him.

[clout]

IOP: Not sure what you mean about Lidge being "hurt." If he was hurt he'd be on the DL. He's wearing the insole to take pressure off his knee so he doesn't reinjure it.

This fact has never been acknowledged on Beerleaguer but it remains a fact: Lidge lost the closer's job in Houston 3 times in 2006 and 2007. Then he had a perfect season in 2008.

Andy nailed it on the last thread and sophist and others have posted the facts that show it: Lidge is ineffective because he isn't throwing first pitch strikes. It allows hitters to take his slider. Most swinging strikes against him come on sliders out of the zone. If you're 1-0 you can take that pitch.

[NEPP]

Billy Mac, I'm not agreeing with it necessarily but that's likely the reason. Day game after a night game is a standard rest day for guys with that situation. If UC thinks Utley needs a day off then there's probably a pretty good reason for it. Its not as if Chase takes a ton of days off even when he plays hurt.

[Andy]

On Cain - It depends on the package. We'd be looking at, like, Jason Donald or one of our linebacker OFs.

My name links to Cain's B-Ref page.

[bay_area_phan]

NEPP: Actually, other than catchers and pitchers, I think it's horse-sh** that baseball players need days off. People act like baseball is some kind of phyiscally demanding activity. I burn more calories walking in the park with my 4-year old than Chase Utley burns standing around 2nd base for 3 hours, and occasionally swinging the bat a few times.

In law, we have an expression. When a lawyer presents a frivolous argument for no other reason except to indulge himself, we say he is "trifling with the court." When Cholly starts Eric Bruntlett over Chase Utley, he is trifling with the baseball season.

[NEPP]

Figure 3-4 prospects including 2 very good ones. He's young, durable, a solid #2 and he's cost controlled for a couple more years.

It would probably start at Donald, either Taylor or Brown and maybe even Marson. (I.E: they're gonna want a lot in return) This smells like one of those "Let's see what he's worth" type of moves by Sabean. The bandied about Nick Johnson for Matt Cain is ludicrous. Not unless the Nats toss in some other prospects.

[MG]

Sarge and McCarthy is one of the worst TV broadcasting duos in baseball right now. A generic play-by-play who is struggling to find his pace thrown in with "I am a Philly guy routuine" (and doesn't know a whole lot about baseball/the Phils in general) and a color guy who gives you the same level of insight that Mike Quick brings to Eagles' games.

Another day I will turn off the TV and listen to the radio while cooking a ton of food.

[bay_area_phan]

NEPP: This isn't a day game after a night game. It's a day game after a day game. And, as Billy says, if Utley absolutely does need a rest, there would be plenty of other opportunities to give it to him this week. Doing it against CC Sabathia is just downright bizarre.

[Andy]

Judge - Son? Are you trahfahlin with me?

Chollie - Nossir.

Judge - Coz when you start that Gnome fella over Utley, it feels like you trahfahlin with me.

Chollie - Nossir.

Judge - Well, then, you have some explainin to do, boy; coz I do NOT like to be trahfahled with.

Chollie - Well, sir...see, well, um...

Judge - Spit it out, son.

Chollie - Last night the Gnome drew to an inside straight. And, well, I was short.

Judge - Well, okay, then. It's not a GOOD reason. But at least it's a REASON.

[NEPP]

Maybe UC's using splits again...afterall, Utley has never gotten a hit against Sabathia (0-3 with 1 K lifetime)

~shrugs~

[mikes77phillies]

"Seriously, what's this BS with starting Eric Bruntlett? Did Cholly bet money on the Yankees?"

LOL

[Andy]

Cole better be on. Sabathia is malicious.

[mikes77phillies]

"and a color guy (Sarge) who gives you the same level of insight that Mike Quick brings to Eagles' games... Another day I will turn off the TV and listen to the radio"

Seriously, who do you like as an analyst? I guess there is nobody smart enough to talk baseball for you.

[bay_area_phan]

After seeing Bruntlett in the starting lineup, I definitely needed one of Andy's made-up conversations in order to brighten my foul mood a bit.

[MPN]

Andy: If Cole is getting 2-3" off the plate like CC he'll be okay. But we'll see.

[MG]

Missed the Lidge debacle yesterday but my uncle said that he knew that Lidge was going to "give it up" from his body language. Guy who was in the service for a while and has coached high school baseball for a while now. It was interesting in that he said that you see it all of the time in high school baseball where players can't mentally get dominated quickly because of a talent gap.

Normally don't see that as much at the pro level but he said you clearly saw that with Lidge on the mound yesterday on his body language and the pitch selection. Couldn't locate his fastball to save his life and then almost had to exclusively to his slider.

There are plenty of pitching worries this team but Lidge is clearly the #1 issue. He likely is hurt to some degree with that bulky right knee and it really is just how much longer the Phils are going to let this continue.

The telling stat is this - he has faced 76 batters so far this year and over half (39) of them has started 1-0 (37). That is kind of poor for any pitcher let alone a a supposedly elite reliever.

Those hitters who have started 1-0 have destroyed Lidge:

.385/.500/.897 for an absurd 1.397 OPS and 5 of the 6 HRs he has surrendered.

Hitters who have started 0-1 have a .270/.325/.405 for a .730 OPS

Contrast that to last year when Lidge faced 330 hitters. Lidge started hitters 123 of those hitters 0-1 vs. 1-0. Those hitters who started 0-1 were destroyed - .392 OPS vs. a .771 OPS hitters who started 1-0.

Game plan on Lidge is this - doesn't swing on the first pitch. Eventually you will get a fastball you can hit and drive out or you get walked because Lidge will miss with too many sliders.

[NEPP]

Why is Werth out of position? Are we really that curious to see how Mayberry handles RF?

This isn't spring training.

[bay_area_phan]

Well, I've seen enough of this game to know the outcome. Sabathia is dealing. Bruntlett's in the starting lineup. And Day Game Hamels is on the mound, falling behind every hitter.

Fortunately, I'm leaving soon and won't have to watch this monstrosity that's about to unfold.

[G-Town Dave]

IOP: I believe that you're exactly right, & I think it's typically ignorant of the Phillies to keep Lidge here when he ought to be resting/rehabbing.

Also, C.C. is one FAT mutha. If the Yankees are willing to list him at 290 lbs., I wonder how much he *actually* weighs?

[Hibachi]

"Missed the Lidge debacle yesterday but my uncle said that he knew that Lidge was going to "give it up" from his body language. Guy who was in the service for a while and has coached high school baseball for a while now. It was interesting in that he said that you see it all of the time in high school baseball where players can't mentally get dominated quickly because of a talent gap. "

Did he see it on him when he was striking out Teixiera?

[Andy]

MPN - I was wondering about that. If I sound like a typical homer, I apologize; but do the Yankees pitchers always get a slightly larger strike zone?

[MG]

Clarity on Lidge:

This year 76 hitters faced:
1-0 (39 hitters) - 51%
0-1 (37 hitters) - 49%

Last year 230 hitters faced:
1-0 (107 hitters) - 47%
0-1 (123 hitters) - 53%

[MPN]

Andy: Yeah, I don't want to come off as a homer either, but I thought CC was getting some liberal strikes in the top of the 1st. And that last pitch to A-Rod looked like a strike to me on the Jeter steal.

[NEPP]

Nice to see a Phillies pitcher strike out AROID.

[Andy]

Actually the second pitch to A-Rod, called ball one? It was right in the middle of the gameday strike zone. If the ump continues that, they should have Eric Bruntlett charge in from second base and deck the guy.

I betting getting Gnome-slapped would straighten him out.

Plus it would improve our line-up.

[MG]

Last year Lidge had 253 appearances and only 23 hitters swung and put it into play on the first pitch.

This year has 81 ABs and only 5 hitters have swung and put it into play on the first pitch.

Basically any hitter right now who strikes at a Lidge's first offering is nuts because he can't locate his 93 MPH fastball to save his life.

As for Texiera, uncle said he was stunned that such a good hitter would be so foolish on 3 straight pitches. He was looking 1-pitch fastball and got a slider instead. Should have adjusted and instead had two more awkward swings at 2 sliders that were out of the zone.

[MPN]

Wow, Mayberry got better looks at CC's pitches than Werth.

[MG]

Hopefully Hamels can match Sabathia's with plenty of zeroes today.

[Billy Mac]

NEPP wrote: "Why is Werth out of position? Are we really that curious to see how Mayberry handles RF?"

LF is more difficult at Yankee stadium, plus Mayberry has been playing RF and is more comfortable there.

[MPN]

Gotta love the strike em out throw em out!

[MG]

Yanks are running alot today early . . . wonder if it continues

[Billy Mac]

Love the strike em out, through em out double play !

[curt]

If the "underrated" Werth can bring us a SP upgrade, the deal's got to be done.

[IOP]

AL Leiter idiotic comment of the day: "Melky Cabrera really earned some respect from his teammates in the clubhouse by not complaining about not winning a starting job out of ST."

So, AL, Melky gets brownie points for not being a jackass? I wish all incentive/reward systems were so liberal in their doling out of "respect."

Maybe it is just that the Yankes clubhouse is full of so many whiny babies that seeing Melky not make a scene out of his loss of a starting job is a novel act.

Melky Cabrera: stoic as Sparticus

[MPN]

Break up that no hitter Chooch!

[Joe]

Anyone have a more-favored Panamanian national than Carlos Ruiz?

[MPN]

Jimmy!

[IOP]

Which NY team is this?

Is that Daniel Murphy in CF?

[MPN]

Joe: Rod Carew?

[PhillyBlunt]

Who was that offensively inferior blur, wizzing around the bases?

[johnnysanz3]

Bruntlett striking out vs Sabathia..expected.

Chooch still hitting the ball well. (Should of played yesterday too)

Vic still likes hitting Sabathia =)

[MPN]

PhillyBlunt: Yeah, Neyer can suck it.

[NEPP]

Jimmy and Vic...good work gentlemen!

[BobbyD]

Billy Mac - the Nats games are more important than the Yankees games.

[GBrettfan]

Just got on, heard Jimmy's and Shane's hits on the radio. A lead! It was so cool to hear a hearty cheer of "Let's go Phillies" from the crowd, too.

[Andy]

Give Neyer a break. If Coste had hit that pitch it would have landed in Nova Scotia...after orbiting a couple times. And he woulda done it lefty.

[Andy]

Question for Sophist: does anybody keep track of percentage of foul tip third strikes held onto?

[IOP]

Clout: "Not sure what you mean about Lidge being 'hurt.' If he was hurt he'd be on the DL."

Lidge was unavailable for several games and there was talk of putting him on the DL, but they opted to let him play through the knee pain.

It is not like the Phillies always put a player on the DL when they know that they are injured. Manuel admitted that he let Utley play through the hip injury most of last season. They let Howard flail away on an injured knee for two months a few years ago.

[Indiana Sarge]

Is it me or did Jeter never even get a piece of that ball? So what is Wheels talking about? It's a strikeout.

[MPN]

Maybe Neyer's kid was kidnapped, taken to Fargo, and he was told that if he said something nice about Coste he'd get the kid back unharmed.

[Andy]

nuts

[GBrettfan]

Indiana, I didn't think Jeter got a piece of it, either, but he must have, or everyone there thought so, else he wouldn't have had any argument at all. (And it did hit the ground.)

[GBrettfan]

Cole's really having to work for his outs, here. Lots of balls. How do you think he's doing?

[Nick]

Anyone else see how Damon grabbed on to Ruiz's mitt after sliding into home there? Trying to rip the ball loose?

[MPN]

55 pitches through 3IP for Cole. Let's hope he has an easy inning someplace. I'd like to give Charlie some options when he needs to get to the pen.

[IOP]

Damon trying to strip the ball out of Ruiz's mitt. Stay classy Damon.

[Hibachi]

"As for Texiera, uncle said he was stunned that such a good hitter would be so foolish on 3 straight pitches. He was looking 1-pitch fastball and got a slider instead. Should have adjusted and instead had two more awkward swings at 2 sliders that were out of the zone."

Yeah, Teixiera looked very lost in that at bat. He laughed after he swung out ahead of the first one and then did it two more times.

I thought Lidge was fine before the A-Rod homerun. It's tough to bear down and get outs after you blow the save when things are going bad. I would rather give A-Rod the credit for rattling Lidge yesterday rather than think something was going on with Lidge out there.

[GBrettfan]

THAT was great! Ruiz does a good job of blocking the plate, just like he's supposed to, and he held on. Cole was saved by his D there.

[MG]

And Damon is meat . . .

Day-game version of Hamels is clearly inferior to night-game version of Hamels . . .

[GBrettfan]

Damon definitely tried to knock the ball loose. I think Shane might have tried the same thing. Ruiz is a tough cookie, holds his ground and holds onto the ball.

Hibachi, you might be right about Lidge yesterday.

[MPN]

Jeter's also the guy who has screamed "balk" from first base before on pitchers in a wind up, Damon is a notorious letch, and A-Rod slapped the ball out of the pitchers hand in the playoffs a few years ago. The Yankees are the ultimate do anything to win team. I like our guys better... other than the Pugilist of Boyleston St.

[Sophist]

Andy - Not sure I've ever seen it. I would look into it now, but I'm a little busy.

[GBrettfan]

MPN, I remember that A-Rod pay knocking the ball out of the pitchers' hand against Boston, I think. My son hass called him a cheater ever since.

[Jonesman]

T-Mac has been a little more bearable of late, but his inability to identify off-speed pitches is pretty lame.

[mm]

Goddammit Gnome!

[johnnysanz3]

Bruntlett showing his worth today.

[MPN]

That's what happens when we let Spencer from the Hills play 2B for us.......

[mm]

It takes a different skill set to save middle earth then it does to field a routine ground ball.

[bay_area_phan]

Remember that Eric Bruntlett error when we lose today's game and miss the playoffs by one game. When you trifle with the season, sometimes bad things happen.

[G-Town Dave]

mm: LMAO!!! :-D

[GBrettfan]

They could really use some more runs....

[MPN]

Nothing worse than swinging at the first pitch of an at bat to start an inning and hit some weak a$$ pop up. Freaking Bruntlett.

[NEPP]

Bruntlett is quite the double threat...worthless at the plate and in the field.