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Wednesday, May 27, 2009


I hate to carry this silly debate over to a new thread, but I hate when I write a post only to have a new thread opened 30 seconds later. So, reposting:

I think what AWH is trying to say is more or less what I said. On paper, Brad Penny might well be good value for Jason Donald, but that doesn't mean it's a desireable trade for the Phillies. When you make a trade, you've got to consider not only the direct cost of what you give up in the trade, but also the opportunity cost: that is, the cost of missing out on the potentially available alternatives to Penny -- almost all of whom come with way less risk.

Never had time to write a post about my five favorite Phillies pitches of 2009, inspired by the night Blanton had with his slider. I'll open that discussion to everyone here and write it up tomorrow. Off the top of my head, Madson's change, Lidge's hard slider, Condrey's hard slider, Madson's fastball, Madson's cutter, Happ's fastball, Myers' curveball and Hamels' change-up rate as my favorites in no particular order this season. Blanton comes close with his slider after last night.

Interesting how few pitchers throw heat on this team. Coming up, Happ was seen as a finesse pitcher. Did you know he has the third highest velocity on his fastball of any member of the pitching staff, behind only Madson and Lidge? But it's still just 90 mph.

Amazing how Madson has developed three dominant pitches. I would consider his cutter a dominant pitch.

Condrey's slider is an interesting development, too, because he's throwing it at 85 mph, same as Lidge.

You guys should rock Badenhop tonight, he's not very good. It's strange, the Marlins went from having a seemingly endless reservoir of young arms but they've been forced to use the likes of Sean West (ERA almost 5 at AA) and John Kornonka lately. Doesn't help that Ricky Nolasco forgot how to pitch all of the sudden....

I really enjoyed watching Happ work Derek Jeter to start off Saturday's game with nothing but his fastball.

Least favorite pitch: Moyer's fastball.

When watching games online on MLB, I've always thought they should use quotes around Moyer's (and Livan Hernandez's for that matter) fastball....

In the real world, if we acquired Brad Penny, I imagine that subsequent events would probably play out something like this:

Start 1: 6 IP, 8 hits, 3 runs allowed. Beerleaguers say, "It isn't great, but it's a QS, which is more than Moyer was giving us."

Start 2: 6 IP, 10 hits, 3 runs allowed. Beerleaguers lament Penny's huge loss in velocity and note that he's purely a back-end starter at this point of his career.

Start 3: 6 IP, 9 hits, 4 runs allowed. Beerleaguers increasingly start turning on Penny, noting that today's outing looked suspciously Moyer-esque. A handful of defenders take solace in the fact that he "kept us in the game."

Start 4: 3 IP, 7 runs allowed. The Beerleaguer verdict is in: he sucks. We should never have released Moyer. Let's call up Bastardo or Worley or Savery, or let's move Chan Ho Park back into the rotation. Better yet, let's trade Taylor, Carrasco & Drabek for Jake Peavy.

Happ must be hard to pick up. He's basically all fastball.

A lot of lefties are like that. Sid Fernandez used to dominate with a fastball that barely touched 90. He had that big looping curveball and a funky motion where the ball probably got lost in his fat...

Jason, according to Dubee, Madson always had the talent.

Apparently their talk last Spring took hold for more than one season.

The added velocity on his fastball (97MPH when he dials it up) makes his secondary pitches that much more effective.

I was at the game on Friday in Yankee stadium. The guys I went to the game with and I were probably annoying the Yankee fans around us when Mad Dog was pitching, because he was touching 97 and we were laughing at how dominant he was.

The Yankees were completely overmatched, and he continued that dominance the rest of the weekend.

Did you miss ChanHP's fastball? He hits 94~ from the pen. Actually, he looks like a fantastic bull-pen pick-up.

JW: Happ threw a pretty good changeup too. In the rotation last year he used a curve as well, but dropped it in the bullpen.

re: happ dominating with his fastball: it will be interesting next game to see happ when hitters are expecting all fastballs - unless he goes in with a different game plan.

Wow, big strike zone tonight?

nice 123 inning start for myers, thanks blue.

is it just me or were those pitches way off the plate?

I like to see Moyer get that strike zone to see what he'd do with it.

Always nice for Brett to get out of the first unscathed...

Rollins looks like he's gonna have one of those years like Ryan Howard's 2008 season, where he gets off to a terrible start & every time it looks like he's coming out of it, he goes right back to stinking it up. Of course, Howard did finally do a considerable amount of making up in September.

Jeez...that Ibanez guy stinks. HA


Is that what Cholly wanted?

Burrell would have walked in that run, damn Ibanez stinks.

God, I can't stand these in-game interviews. Shut up, I want to watch the game!

Glad that line drive didn't strike Myers in the head, although it's not like it could have done any damage.

Classic Myers.

he was pitching scared of uggla and then put one over the plate.

Knight, I am watching the game via Gamecast, so I'm not seeing exactly how Myers is pitching. But if 1R through 4 is "classic Myers", I will take that any day.

Bats gotta get going against the AAA callup!

Myers is pitching a good game, but the rest of the team looks completely lifeless. Rollins is really killing them right now, and has been for most of the season. This game has the distinct feel of an ugly loss.

uh oh, Ibanez reverting to career norms in a hurry! 4 men LOB! Bum!

I meant the AB where he gave up the HR was Classic Myers.

Re: Happ's fastball

He hit 93 a few times this season on the fastball.. and still with his good location. Always a plus.

Gotta whiff Helms here.

There is just no excuse for this pathetic performance tonight. They are making a truly rotten pitcher look like Sandy Koufax.

Wheels just called Helms, "Mr. Universe"

Wes Helms must be really proud of the performances he put in here a couple years ago.


These green hats are very disconcerting. It's like a stadium full of Lucky Charms leprechauns.

BAP -- never one for understatement; although they're doing their best to make your observation accurate. Koufax was a lefty, however.

werth needs to sit for a game. he's just aweful right now.

Is Badenhop related to Redding?

Ruiz has power baby! power!

Thank you, Chooch.

JW: And Chooch was sitting there for the taking at $3. :-)


Chooch is crushing the ball lately. Can't make a mistake to him right now.

Here we go, the 8 and 9 hitters getting things going.

Ever since that AB against Sabathia, Myers is the Man at the plate.

Crushed that one J-roll.

way to go jimmy, wtf.


darn...Phils are very unclutch so far tonight.

Hope: Yeah, I should have said Tom Seaver. Koufax was just the first ace pitcher who jumped to mind.

On the bright side, Badenhop is way over his pitch count limit for tonight.

on a good note - "the best pitcher in the national league" just walked in the tying run and is around 90 pitches through 4 innings in new york.

Johan Santana's 4th inning:

R. Zimmerman walked
- A. Dunn homered to deep right, R. Zimmerman scored
- J. Willingham singled to left
- R. Belliard flied out to deep left
- J. Maxwell walked, J. Willingham to second
- W. Nieves struck out swinging
- J. Zimmermann walked, J. Willingham to third, J. Maxwell to second
- C. Guzman walked, J. Willingham scored, J. Maxwell to third, J. Zimmermann to second
- N. Johnson flied out to centerR. Zimmerman walked
- A. Dunn homered to deep right, R. Zimmerman scored
- J. Willingham singled to left
- R. Belliard flied out to deep left
- J. Maxwell walked, J. Willingham to second
- W. Nieves struck out swinging
- J. Zimmermann walked, J. Willingham to third, J. Maxwell to second
- C. Guzman walked, J. Willingham scored, J. Maxwell to third, J. Zimmermann to second
- N. Johnson flied out to center

3-3. Santana with 91 pitches so far.

BAP - maybe Don Drysdale, he was Koufax's partner from the right.

I may be an over-optimistic homer, but I think Ruiz now is closer to the real Ruiz than last year's version(regular season). He OBP is always around 100 points higher than his .avg, even when he is struggling bad. With a good eye like that, he shouldn't hit as bad as last year. Will be awesome if he hits well for the rest of the season. He's one of my favorite players.

Well, all those things only happened once up in NY.

i'm glad myers got rollins out of the way to start the next inning.

Rollins is just brutal to watch this year. Except for a few good games, he is absolutely killing the offense. And even his defense hasn't been especially good.

Dukes: clever lol

Offense better get their act together. They're beginning to hit Myers.

That's what will forever plague Myers: 0-2 count against someone taht hits you well, and no, don't throw the curveball (best pitch) low, try to finesse a 90mph fastball on the corner. That's enough criticism, he has been pitching well though.

So much for good Myers. This game could not possibly have put me in a more sour mood. This is the worst all-around game they have played all year.

I liked Brett's pitching better against the Yankees.

Not pitching well anymore. Terrible.

I HATE Cody Ross.

Lost all command this inning. And I'm still going to go back to that decision to try to throw a 90mph fastball on the corner with Uggla in an 0-2 count. Has to be curveball there or something off speed off the plate.

Way to hang a slider, Brett.

How about throwing an occasional curve?

Flush the good outing down the drain :(

I think the line drive that nearly killed him rattled him some; seems his pitching hasn't been tight since then.

"This game has the distinct feel of an ugly loss."

BAP. Just checking. You do post that comment 162 times each year, don't you?

Ugh, 5 innings of great pitching and now this.

Thank goodness for Condrey when we don't get enough innings out of our starter.

shoot...if Myers is hurt, expect the trade rumors to really start

He's sorta limping coming off.

GBrett: Are you serious? Blaming it on the liner back that he caught? I hope you're being sarcastic. This is who Brett Myers is - a good start or two and then slop. You don't ever know what you're going to get. It could be worse if it weren't for the large strike zone.

Wouldn't hurt if our offense strung together some hits and some more runs, either.

Bad things happen when Brett pitches against the Marlins.

I didn't see the liner, just got home a little while ago, but on the radio description, it sounded like it could have been scary had he not been able to react quickly enough, Dukes. I have no real idea if that rattled him, of course. Just fishing. It actually sounds as though he's not feeling well.

Yes, they are like his Kryptonite or something. Very perplexing. And completely on the same page with you JW, hate the smug little Cody.

phlipper: Actually, no. Phillies losses tend to conform to certain prototypes. One of the more common prototypes occurs when Myers (or sometimes Blanton) come out dealing for the first few innings, but the Phillies don't score any runs to support him. When this happens, the game always seems to take the same exact turn: eventually, Myers or Blanton implodes and allows a bunch of runs and the Phillies bats remain dormant until about the 8th or 9th inning, when they tack on several meaningless runs after it's already too late. After watching this pattern repeat itself about 50 times over the last 3 or 4 years, I've learned to sniff it out in about the third inning.

GBrett: and i'm watching without volume and just turned it on to hear he's hurt. didn't know that. i still do stick to me lack of trust in him, though. it's hard to know what he's going to give you. And yes, this game might have a completely different feel if we would have gotten a few runs in that first inning with the bases loaded.


On the next bright side, Brian Sanchez is warming up for the Fish.

Somebody tell me how you win 2 of 3 at Yankee stadium and drop 2 of 3 to the Fish at home, back to back. I don't get it.

It is a little troubling how poor Rollins has been at home. Don't understand it.

Maybe there is some kind of wives, girlfriends home Memo Paris effect....

How many called 3rd strikes have we taken tonight? If that's not a sign of the hitters being tight, I don't know what is. I don't have the telecast, just listening with Gameday -- are those fair calls?

JW - Yeah but Myers was throwing meatballs again tonight unlike his last start vs. Yanks where he had his best fastball all year.

17 HRs in 63 2/3 IP is astounding bad and the crazy thing is that Myers have actually given up only 4 HRs in 24 2/3 IP coming into tonight at home.

Phils got no mojo tonight. Not an ounce.

Someone send them a palette of red bull or something.

As for JRoll, he has been just plain bad this month at the plate and not atrocious so I guess that is an improvement.

Now hitting a robust .236 for the month. So much for .400.

I think tomorrow is an off day - maybe it would have been a good time to give Werth the day off and let Mayberry have another crack at it?

where the hell did the new strike zone suddenly come from?

Nice of the Phils to get Uggla and Helms out of their slumps.

Oughta be good for their, like, karma.

Andy - I was thinking the same. It is not like this team is playing tight at home they just look flat too many times.

Getting shutdown by Badenhop tonight was pretty damn weak. He was throwing slop and yet when the Phils don't hit homers at home this year they don't score.

The Phillies have certainly had more painful losses this year -- i.e., the 10-inning loss to the Dodgers or the Brad Lidge blown save in NY. But for just the sheer awfulness of their overall play, the only game that can compare to this one was the Dave Bush 2-hitter back in April. But at least Bush is a decent pitcher who has the Phillies' number. This one is just inexcusable.

Boy. Everyday has been good this year. If he keeps getting better he might turn into, like, a fifth reliever or something.

Rest assured, Phils fans. 0-6 on the season, I will be going to my 7th game on Saturday and, at the behest of commenter Miss Cleo from last night's game thread, will pass the baffle gate in possession of a wheat back penny, a Kim Batiste rookie card, and a clove of garlic. You'll have to endure the pathetic home field Phils for a few days longer, but they turn the corner at CBP on the 30th.

MG: That's pretty typical for this team. We always seem to play down to these young, non-stellar prospects/call-ups. This is almost as axiomatic as Big Red's birds playing down to the level of bad teams.

Can't blame Condrey for this monstrosity, though. He, Ruiz, and Howard are the only guys on the team who even bothered to show up tonight.

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