Game chat: Phillies, Nationals play the second

Cole Hamels gets the ball when the Phillies look to go 9-2 against Shairon Martis and the Washington Nationals. First pitch is 7:05. Tonight's focus: fielding. Is it any suprise that Washington, which has the worst record in baseball, is also the worst fielding team in the league? Defense counts.

Comments

[NEPP]

clout: I agree that a rotation of Carlton, Spahn, Koufax, Santana etc. would be tremendous.

Is that in order? I mean putting Koufax in the #3 spot of the rotation isn't very fair to him. I mean Koufax was ridiculous in his prime. No one will ever match his numbers for that 6 year period. Imagine that rotation.

[CRD]

Has anyone considered this? Myers' career in Philadelphia has been considered over by the end of this year, most assuming he will test free agency and choose to sign with a team that will give him the money that Philadelphia will most likely not. This was a widely considered thought before the injury.

Most Phillies fans never had a problem with having Myers in the rotation. Personally, I cannot complain when it is hard enough to find good starting pitching. Because of the injury and inevitable surgery, it will clearly bring Myers' price down. The Phillies could resign him this year to a one year deal for a reasonable amount of money. Past examples have shown (Arod an Utley) that position players can quickly rebound from this injury. Would it be worth to go after Myers, hoping that he will be healthy and ready to pitch again next year for a reasonable price?

[NEPP]

Considering the alternatives on the market...I think Myers (if healthy) will get at least a 3 year deal in the off-season. He's a solid middle of the rotation guy on a lot of teams.

[CRD]

NEPP- If not healthy, do you sign him anyway?

[Tray]

"I await, however, EFF and anon (his latest screen name) to explain how a rotation of Hamels, Happ, Moyer and Bastardo is so good that it nullifies that weakness."

Doesn't sound like a great rotation to me, but mostly because Moyer looks cooked and I don't quite know what to expect from Happ or Bastardo. Not because they happen to all be lefties.

[NEPP]

I meant, if there are still questions on his hip he might have to do one of those 1 year trial run contracts.

[EDGE]

Same lineup as last night:

Rollins SS
Victorino CF
Utley 2B
Howard 1B
Ibanez LF
Werth RF
Feliz 3B
Ruiz C

[johnnysanz3]

The phillies should try to keep Myers just because it will probably be at a good price, and if they truly get an impact pitcher this year, would be a great #3.

[denny b.]

Disappointed in tonights lineup.

Against this AAA team, it would be a perfect opportunity to get Stairs and Dobbs some AB's, that Dobbs in particular DESPERATELY needs. Plus, Werth hasn't exactly been tearing it up, on either offense or defense lately.

Yet, Cholly trots the tried-and-true lineup out there again; complete with 2 switch-hitters, then 3 straight lefties, and then 3 straight righties. Way to make it hard on the opposing manager, Chuckles.

Dobbs got 353 plate appearances in 2007. Got 237 PA's in 2008. He has gotten 42 in 2009.

I understand Feliz has been playing well. But, you have to find AB's and PT for these guys; especially against loser teams like Washington in May.

[bay_area_phan]

Yeah, Tray said exactly what I was about to say. I would also add that, however good or bad it would be, a rotation of Hamels, Happ, Moyer & Bastardo would not need to "nullify" the problem that most hitters are right-handed. After all, both Happ & Hamels are tougher on right-handers than left-handers and, at least historically, the same is true of Jamie Moyer (who isn't tough on anyone anymore, but that's a different matter).

[Jack]

NEPP: Actually, considering the era he played in (higher mound, no runs scored) and the advantages of Dodger stadium at the time (huge pitchers park), Koufax's numbers probably aren't as impressive as they seem. In fact, I'll take Pedro's 1997-2003 over Koufax's 6-year period any day. Check out the ridiculous numbers Pedro put up in the midst of the biggest offensive era in history.

[mikes77phillies]

"After all, both Happ & Hamels are tougher on right-handers than left-handers and, at least historically, the same is true of Jamie Moyer (who isn't tough on anyone anymore, but that's a different matter)."

Exactly.

That is why it would'nt matter if there are 4 lefties in THIS rotation. They get RH hitters out.

[bay_area_phan]

Rollins is definitely not playing like a Gold Glover this year.

[anon]

Clout, you seem semi-intelligent, so I'll leave it up to you to discover the blatant contradictions in your post from a logic standpoint. It is also contradictory to several related posts you have made in the past...not to mention that you still haven't given factual analysis to back up your viewpoint, your excellency.

However, I was more referring to the notion that a good LF pitcher acquired via trade would be so much inferior to a good right handed one. Being left-handed automatically makes Bedard a bad choice, eh?

[Tray]

I think clout would say that Bedard's not a bad choice, but, say, Oswalt, being a righty, is a better one.

[G-Town Dave]

b_a_p: Jimmy is barely playing like a Major Leaguer this year.

[Andy]

"Being left-handed automatically makes Bedard a bad choice, eh?"

Being terribly injury prone and likely to walk at the end of the year makes Bedard automatically a questionable choice given the prospects we'd have to give up.

[Andy]

Dunn is great at making highlight reel catches [out of ordinary fly balls].

[redbeard]

wow dunn caught it

*golf clap

[Andy]

b-a-p:
What are his UZR and FPct?

[Andy]

My wife, hearing McCarthy blather:
"Why do all sportscasters sound the same?"

.

I really miss Harry.

[bay_area_phan]

Andy: I don't know. I only know that he has made way too many miscues and almost every time I've seen him make a great stop, the guy has ended up being safe anyhow.

[Andy]

b-a-p: What I've seen is all the other SS's not getting to balls and being surprised. I' just used to his amazing range. The season is more than 20% over and that was his 3rd error. That's a little bit better than a minor league SS.

Cole is not sharp tonight. He's leaving a whole lot of pitches up in the zone.

[redbeard]

hamels getting knocked around

[bay_area_phan]

So we've reached a consensus that, even though it's all left-handed, a staff consisting of Koufax, Santana, Carlton & Spahn would be ok. Here's a question that more pointedly gets at the issue in debate: what about a staff of, say, Sabathia, Buehrle, Maholm, and Jarod Washburn? You've got a staff ace, a legitimate No. 2 in Buerhle, a solid 3 (or 2-) in Maholm and a decent back-end guy in Washburn. Based purely on year-to-year numbers, I think just about anyone would agree that's a pretty nice rotation -- not great, but pretty nice. Would people NOT want that rotation simply because all 4 guys are left-handed?

[anon]

game=over

that's my best bap impersonation

[bay_area_phan]

Andy: Well, I've seen him make a bunch of miscues that didn't show up as errors. Rollins is, of course, one of the better defensive SSs in baseball. But he's really not fielding as well as he has in the past couple of years.

Oh yeah. And Cole looks like sh** too.

[G-Town Dave]

Andy: J-Roll has a FP of .988 & a UZR of 1.7 -- while his FP is right in the range of the previous 3 seasons, Rollins' UZR was 7.1, 6.6 & 12.8 in '06-'08, respectively.

[goody]

Top 10 options for tuesday's starter:
1. Call up the guy who you think gives you the best chance to win on tuesday, PERIOD.
2. DITTO
3. DITTO
4. DITTO
5. DITTO
6. DITTO
7. DITTO
8. Management's favorite: Factor in 40 man roster considerations, options, service clock, cost, etc.
9. Left or right?
99. Park

[redbeard]

jroll!

[Andy]

Well that's definitely a drop off in UZR. And he never gets a key hit. We should tr....

I mean: yippee!

[Andy]

And he never swipes any bags any more. Really dump the...

I mean: woohoo!!

[Andy]

J-Roll woulda gotten four outs on that grounder.

[G-Town Dave]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-o

:-D

[redbeard]

holy sh!t howard! that was a monster

[bay_area_phan]

Wow. That was crushed. I mean REALLY crushed.

[tg082]

RYAN

[redbeard]

martis face was like 'damn, that just happened'

[regalmeans]

Nats announcer: you don't want to leave a pitch over the plate for a grand slam.

Howard swings... hits...

Silence. More silence.

Awesome.

[Andy]

Bomb.

[tg082]

I wonder what the record is for grand slams by a team against one team for a season is? That's three already so far against the Nats.

[Andy]

Martis is a groundball pitcher, right?

[The Truth Injection]

To paraphrase the same thing my old baseball coach used to say:

Someone call the cops cause Howard just murdered that ball.

[Knight]

I'd be surprised if that ball was still round. He just obliterated that.

[redbeard]

that dude that got the ball, in the third freakin deck, is a lucky mo-fo.

he needs to go get howard to autograph it, "W.O.B."

[joe]

They need another red "H" on a seat up there pronto.

(There's already one from the Yankees series)

[NEPP]

Ryno came to play tonight.

Good.

To Jack: Were you here about 6 months ago when we had a long discussion on the merits of Koufax versus Pedro? I believe I was on the side of "Pedro's 7 year stretch was as good as Koufax's 6 year stretch of dominance statistically."

Both are amazing when you look at them in their prime. I used to actually stop whwat I was doing to watch Pedro pitch in his prime...and I wasn't even a Sox fan.

[Knight]

Hamels looks really bad today.

[NEPP]

What's up with Hamels tonight???

[redbeard]

he needs to use his curve more

[denny b.]

Might be 'one of those nights' at the Bank.

Better keep scoring.

[G-Town Dave]

71 pitches, 5 H & 4 ER through 4 IN.

It's no longer "early", it's not a day game & Cole hasn't been bitten by a wild dingo (or suffered any other such freak accident) lately ... there's literally no excuse for this.

[NEPP]

Well, he does have a 2.88 ERA for May....he's been pitching fairly well lately.

[johnnysanz3]

Ruiz is a beast. Maybe that swing change actually meant something a few weeks ago?

[joe]

everybody hits... woohoo.

[NEPP]

At least his bat showed up.

[johnnysanz3]

Newsflash: Nationals may have bad pitching and horrible defense, but they are a very good hitting team. It isn't like Hamels is giving up runs to an AAA roster.

[G-Town Dave]

NEPP: It's not so much the ERA as the high pitch count/inability to pitch past the 6th ... can't complain about a guy helping himself w/ some RBIs, though. Nice hit!

[johnnysanz3]

Anyone that wants to see a lot of runs scored in a game: Go to a Phillies-Nationals game!

[NEPP]

Well, Hamels has always been a 2nd half guy...I'm not really worried about him.

[bay_area_phan]

G-Town: He's having a bad game. I'm not sure he needs an "excuse" for it.

Based on the way the ball is flying all over the yard, I would also venture to guess that these are pretty nice hitting conditions tonight.

[G-Town Dave]

Fun Stat:

Martis has a 9.54 ERA & a 2.517 WHIP vs. the Phillies this season.

[NEPP]

89 pitches through 5...he'll probably go 6 innings tonight. Maybe 7 if he can get a really easy next inning (under 10 pitches)

[johnnysanz3]

475 ft Home Run by Howard. I am only listening, but I can't wait till after the game so I can watch the video of the HR.

[johnnysanz3]

The nationals almost have to trade Dunn to a team that needs a 1B, right? How long can they watch him blow plays out in LF like that?

[redbeard]

dunn belongs in right field as much as big papi does

[NEPP]

Dunn as a fielder...always an adventure.

[bay_area_phan]

Not all 5 inning, 4-run performances are equal. Hamels has 7 strikeotus & 1 walk, and 4 of the 6 hits he has allowed were in the same inning. Other than that 1 inning, it's not as if the Nationals have been hitting the ball particularly hard.

The salient question is not what his numbers are for the game. It is: based on the way he's throwing, do you feel confident with him remaining in the game? The answer is yes. He won't have a great stat line for this game but he is basically throwing the ball fine.

[G-Town Dave]

As mentioned above, the est. distance of Howard's moon shot is 475 ft. Ryan has now broken Mike Schmidt's Career Grand Slam mark (that was Howard's 8th career slam), & needs only 5 more HR to pass Bobby Abreu for 8th place on the Phillies Career HR list.

[Benson]

uh oh, get the BP ready

[MPN]

The Nats sort of remind of those late 90s Phils teams with Jefferies, Abreu, Lieberthal, and Brogna... except these Nats don't have a Schill on the other side of the hill.

[G-Town Dave]

Boooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-[

[johnnysanz3]

Even Ronnie Belliard can hit a 89mph FB down the middle for a HR.

[NEPP]

Really...Belliard?!?

Brutal.

[NEPP]

So Cole is done after 6...right?

[johnnysanz3]

So is Hamels going to consistently throw 90+mph fastballs or will he just hover between 85-92mph on his fastball randomly?

[bay_area_phan]

I must have triggered the BL reverse jinx when I said he wasn't pitching that badly. It's hard to defend a 6-inning, 6-run performance.

[Benson]

Hey, the Phils don't have to play the nats again till mid September.

I need a break from this team. BOOO!

[denny b.]

Pull him Skip. He doesn't have it tonight.

[DanTheMan]

on the Nats broadcast, they just asked Dibble how many time this year at CBP the Nats had retired the Phils 1-2-3 in an inning. This is game 5 between the 2 so we're talking approximately 40 innings.

Dibs guessed 5.... lower.

The correct answer is 3!

RIDICULOUS!

[johnnysanz3]

Lowest ERA of our starters now that Myers is out: Hamels at 5.21. I guess you could count Happ at 3.00, he has only started 2 games though.

[NEPP]

Good eye Greg...Good Eye!

[denny b.]

Cholly again with no feel for his pitcher.

Left Happ in too long last night and left Hamels in to long tonight.

7 is not going to be enough to win this one tonight. Its one of those nights at CBP.

And, Werth looks brutal at the plate right now against righties.

[johnnysanz3]

Walked the guy before, so swing at the first pitch!

[NEPP]

Great place for Utley to give us some insurance here.

[The Truth Injection]

Always love how no matter what Charlie does someone finds a way to critique him. Cole is the ace of your staff so he gets a little more rope than most. It's not like Charlie has never pulled him if he's having a bad outing.

[Jack]

Yup, fielding counts.

[NEPP]

Good work Ryno! (Hey, its about the only way he's gonna get on base against a LHP.)

[The Truth Injection]

Nice play by Kearns there

[bay_area_phan]

The Phillies' pattern this whole series has been to get a seemingly comfortable lead and then let the Nats right back in. Let's hope they can keep the lead at 3 runs because it's not like my faith in Lidge has been fully restored.

[Andy]

Truth - Kearns had to dive on a ball Vic woulda camped under. It's amazing to me how many flat out running catches Washington HAS to make.

[MPN]

I was at dinner with my wife for the first 5 innings of the game tonight so I didn't see what happened, but obviously Cole didn't have his great stuff. Still, it is hot and humid hitting weather here in S. Philly tonight, so I am not all that concerned. I am more mad that MLB has started to charge to watch the short video clips on their gameday live. Ugh.

[Andy]

MPN - He was up in the zone early and often. It was not the heat or the humidity; it was the command.

[Andy]

Oh, and how was dinner?

[MPN]

Dinner was okay, Adobe (a Tex Mex place) up on Passyunk Ave. not far from the Snyder subway stop. $4 pints, decent food.

[NEPP]

Anyone else worried when Condrey is our best option in the 7th?

[The Truth Injection]

Andy- Not all centerfielders are as fast as Victorino. There are plenty of guys who play center that would've had that ball drop in. Believe it or not, diving catches are not easy.

So, I stand by the statement, "Nice play by Kearns."

[Andy]

TI - Glad you said "guys who play center" and not "centerfielder" when referring to Kearns.

[Jack]

Once again, I really wish Madson was able to go more than one inning. There's no reason not to insert Madson into the game here and double switch Mayberry with Ibanez. But we never, ever do it. Makes no sense to me.

[Mac Tonight]

Interesting article:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2009281047_what_is_going_on_with_raul_iba.html?syndication=rss

"We all know Ibanez had trouble running in on balls. But what isn't mentioned often is that he's pretty good going back on fly balls to the wall and warning track. I had a conversation about this subject with The Fielding Bible author John Dewan, inventor of the Plus/Minus defensive stats system. Dewan told me Ibanez was a much better fielder than he got credit for. Not a Gold Glover, but far better than the guy he replaced in Philly, Pat Burrell.

The reason was Ibanez's ability to go back on balls.

Now, in Philadelphia, he's got less ground to cover in left field. So, I'll take a stab at why his UZR is so much better. I think the ballpark in Philadelphia plays to his strengths. If you know he can cover ground running back to the wall and you know there is less distance to cover in left field there compared to at Safeco Field, it makes sense that Ibanez could be cheating further up towards the infield."