Game chat: Happ goes; Myers will go under knife

Left-handers J.A. Happ (2-0, 2.60) and Ross Detwiler (0-0, 2.45) are set to pitch when the Phillies and Nationals begin a weekend set at 7:05.

Meanwhile, after seeking a second opinion, Brett Myers tells the Phiadelphia Inquirer that he will have surgery to repair a torn labrum in his hip, likely costing him the rest of the season. That means more pressure on one of the league's worst rotations to pick up the slack. It also places more emphasis on Happ to embrace his starting duties quickly. Happ pitched very well Saturday against the Yankees, but was under a pitch count after spending seven weeks as the Phillies longman. Longer outings will become even more crucial to preserving the bullpen now that the Phils have lost the season's steadiest arm. For Washington, Detwiler, Washington's first-round pick in 2007, makes his first career road start for the 13-33 Nationals. The Phillies enter play a half game off the pace of the Mets in the East.

Lineups are posted: Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Ibanez, Werth, Feliz, Ruiz.

Comments

[IOP]

MG: I agree that Clint Hurdle may very well be a bumbling moron as a manager, but I think Buster Olney makes a good point about him.

Olney (paraphrased): Think about the guys that were the stars of that 07 WS team: Tulowitzki, Atkins, Helton, Francis, Morales, Corpas. None of them have played well in a while and Matt Holliday is gone. Hard to lay all the blame on Hurdle.

[CJ]

I wonder why Charlie returned to the 3-4-5 LHB lineup? We seemed to be having pretty good success with Rauuuul in the 3-hole and Vic in the 6-hole.

[Hydrant]

IOP: I thought the same. Tulo was hurt last season and they went and traded Holliday. I mean, they got schallacked at home by the Dodgers, but they didn't know the Dodgers have a better team right now?

[Sampson]

The wife beater gets what he deserves. Hopefully his career is completely over.

[NEPP]

Josh Outman: 2.91 ERA, 39 K in 46.1 IP, 147 ERA+

[Lisa]

We'll get em next year. This season ends the second the knife cuts into Myers.

[Hydrant]

NEPP: Outman was a nice prospect, but Joe Blanton also has a ring on his finger now.

Also, keep in mind his home games are played in a ridiculous pitching ballpark. ERA+ is a nice stat, but a .249 BABIP and a 4.58 FIP tell you more.

It was a good trade :)

[GBrettfan]

I thought Brett Myers was pitching well. Esp. if you look at his performance in light of the new info that he's been playing with a bad hip. I've read what othes say about our minor league pitchers and trade possibilities. It's all a big unknown. I suppose Myers was an unknown, too, oftentimes. Still, I feel this is a loss for the Phils that will not be easy to get back. Either spend big bucks or give up valuable pieces of our future, or both...unless one of those young pitchers can rise to the occasion the way that Kendrick did (for a season, anyway) a few years ago. I'd guess the Phils will try that first to see if it works. Hopefully, it will. Since it seems that in trade we'll give up something and still get only a mediocre or slightly better pitcher. Thank goodness Blanton seems to be coming around, Hamels hopefully gets sharper, and Moyer is moderately stepping it up - oh, and Happ did great, let's see him again tonight.

[denny b.]

I was hoping Mayberry would get a start tonight and give Ibanez the night off. He hasn't exactly been swinging it all that well lately.

These outfielders have to be dragging at this point. But, Cholly is obviously going to run them out there every single day; no matter what. For Werth and Vic, I think that is a big mistake.

Dobbs and Stairs also need some more AB's. Dobbs especially needs to get into some sort of rhythm.

Use your bench Cholly. Seems like we say that every year.

[bay_area_phan]

When Happ can't find the plate, bad things usually happen.

[GBrettfan]

Oh, and I agree, I liked the Rollins-Utley-Ibanez-Howard lineup used in NY.

[EastFallowfield]

When anyone can't find the plate, bad things usually happen.

[IOP]

I'm not buying the idea that losing Myers is the end to the Phillies season.

A team that has nothing but young pitchers in a rotation will usually struggle when there is a constant influx of those same pitchers, but that is not the Phillies.

They have Hamels who could be the best pitcher in baseball on any given day, Blanton (experienced and seemingly figuring it out this season), Moyer (mightily struggling, but knowledgable and a good calming influence).

Bringing in a young pitcher is something that a team like the Phillies can absorb. The Nats, not so much.

[IOP]

I'm not buying the idea that losing Myers is the end to the Phillies season.

A team that has nothing but young pitchers in a rotation will usually struggle when there is a constant influx of those same pitchers, but that is not the Phillies.

They have Hamels who could be the best pitcher in baseball on any given day, Blanton (experienced and seemingly figuring it out this season), Moyer (mightily struggling, but knowledgable and a good calming influence).

Bringing in a young pitcher is something that a team like the Phillies can absorb. The Nats, not so much.

[bay_area_phan]

A 3-game set with the Nats is a great opportunity for stat padding. We need Rollins to start hitting.

[johnnysanz3]

I may be off base here, but I am calling it now: Myers will have a good season next year. With a healthy hip (he said he has had it "forever" whatever that means) he will pitch better. Whether that's for us or somebody else is the Phillies call. He seems to like it here a lot and would sign cheaply with us. (I always liked him so I am biased)

[MG]

This is a series that the Phils need to take 2 of 3 at CBP. Nats have a few decent hitters in their lineup but there is no reason why they shouldn't put at least 5 or 6 on the board tonight.

[redbeard]

well that was weak

[J. Weitzel]

Amaro on 950 this evening said Schilling would not be a realistic option, in case anyone was wondering.

[Benson]

Jimmy gets the leadoff double and steals third...you've got to bring him home with one out there.

Seems like Utley and Howard have not been very clutch these last few games. Hopefully they hunt out something they can kill against this southpaw.

[MG]

If you are offensively struggling, don't wait until the Phils starters come to town . . .

[johnnysanz3]

Howard:
.206 .280 .338 .618 vs LHP

[MG]

Interesting . . . Nats are 3rd in the NL in HRs largely behind Dunn's contributions. A bad sign for a pitching staff that gives up a boatload of HRs.

[curt]

Whence the black hole? With the game on the line, I'd rather have our bottom 4 up, not the top 4.

[MG]

Detwiler has really marginal stuff. No reason this guys goes more than 5 tonight and the Phils should get at least 3 against him.

[johnnysanz3]

I am not watching on tv, would those 2 hits been outs with an adequate LF?

[MG]

Sanz - At least one would have been an out including that last one. Dunn is a donkey in LF and Nats can't move him to 1B because they lose Johnson's bat.

[MG]

Didn't mean that Detwiler has marginal stuff. He just looks like a guy right now who should be pitching in the minors to further develop his offspeed stuff.

[Benson]

Heyo! Second time round, Utley was not going to be beat by the rookie!

[redbeard]

nice cut utley

the phillies ball girls can probly play better defense than these yahoos.

[NEPP]

So I know we've had the wacky idea of trading Werth to clear space...how about the following:

Trade Jimmy Rollins and some B level prospects to Boston for something like Clay Bucholtz and Justin Masterson...or Michael Bowden.

Yeah, its crazy but theoretically we could cover the loss of Jimmy with Jason Donald. Its not optimal but it could be a solution. Jimmy makes the following:

09:$7.5M, 10:$7.5M, 11:$8.5M ($2M buyout)

~only half serious~

[redbeard]

RaulBI

[bay_area_phan]

I guess my gentleman's bet with clout is going to end up with no clear winner. Yes, Ibanez is a lock for 100 RBIs, but he's now spending so much time batting 3rd and 5th that the entire premise of the bet -- whether he can drive in 100 RBIs in the 6th spot -- has become more or less moot.

[MPN]

Feliz Navidad!!!!!!!!!

[johnnysanz3]

Stradensburg (spelling?) is sitting somewhere watching this game thinking "They are going to have to pay me 100million to go there"

[bay_area_phan]

"the phillies ball girls can probly play better defense than these yahoos."

And redbeard wrote that post BEFORE Feliz's eminently catchable triple.

[MG]

Overwhelmed pitcher who is trying to get by just with a fastball and a terrible defensive team = Phils' beatdown.

[NEPP]

Well BAP...we could always calculate his RBI/AB from the 6 hole and then go from there at the end of the year...its not exact but it would give us what pace he was on for RBIs out of the 6-hole.

Vote for Pedro.

[MG]

Nats are the JV team of MLB baseball right now. No question if they lose 100 games but just a matter if they start to creep into historically awful territory. An injury or two to some of the better hitters (e.g., Johnson) and they just might.

[johnnysanz3]

Feliz REFUSES to drop below a .300 batting avg.

[G-Town Dave]

I shudder to imagine where the Phillies would be right now w/out (a) Ibañez, Feliz & Ruiz, & (b) so many games vs. the Natinals.

[MPN]

Eminently catchable? Maybe if he ran the perfect route and caught it over his shoulder. That would've been a helluva catch.

[Jack]

NEPP: I don't think the Sox would do Bucholz and Masterson for Rollins.

Feliz doing his best to make his 2-year contract look like a success.

[MG]

Feliz is going to hit a LHP like Detwiler well who throws a ton of fastballs.

What is amazing is that his OBP has been so high and that he has hit RHP pitching so well. Feliz hasn't hit for much power at all so far but I could care less. This lineup has plenty of power and frankly they are much better off with a 3B who hits .300 and has a solid OBP vs. a 3B who hits .250 with moderate power and a terrible OBP.

[NEPP]

Feliz is doing his best to get his $5 million 2010 option used...

Well, I think we'd have to give up some prospects as well....

[MG]

Reality is that the Phils right now were on pace to scoring 5.5 runs/game which translates into slightly less than 900 runs this year.

If the Phils keep up this pace, they can still get below average starting pitching and make the playoffs.

[bay_area_phan]

MPN: It would have been a good catch, but it was certainly not uncatchable.

[johnnysanz3]

Guzman-Johnson-Zimmerman-Dunn is a pretty fearsome foursome to pitch through these days. They all work counts well and hit the ball hard.

[NEPP]

Come on Happ...get out of this.

[MPN]

b_a_p: Okay, I agree there. But it wasn't a can of corn play.

[MG]

Happ is showing that if you can keep the walks and HRs down at CBP that this defense and offense will translate into a pretty successful pitcher on the W-L ledger.

[NEPP]

That's Happtastic!

[Benson]

First pitch swing sure looks great when it works I guess.

[G-Town Dave]

That's what we get for everyone bitching about the Nats' defense. Boooooooooooo ...

[NEPP]

Its not that Howard is weak against good LHP...its that he sucks against even mediocre AAAA LHP.

For season: .593 OPS vs LHP. That's brutal for a non-platoon player.

[denny b.]

I think you pull Happ after 5 tonight.

The pitch count is getting up there now and his command is not as good tonight. Is making good pitches when has needed to, but he still isn't stretched out. Maybe you let him start the 6th, but give him 1 baserunner and thats it.

You have a rested pen tonight and Hamels going tomorrow. Go to Durbin in the 6th and see if the pen can hold it this week for Jay A.

Just my 2 cents.

[bay_area_phan]

Happ doesn't look quite as sharp as he did against the Yankees and this isn't exactly murderer's row he's facing, but I really like the way he pitches. It's not about velocity. It's about deception. And he is deceptive.

The real question about Happ is whether his mostly fastball repertoire will still fool batters during his 2nd and 3rd times around the league when teams have a book on him. If so, he'll have a good career and, as I have been saying since his days in the minors, he'll be better than the backend starter that the scouts have him pegged as.

[denny b.]

Good job by J tonight. I don't think he had his best, but he battled and gave the Phils a good outing.

After giving up a 2 run HR in the 1st, Carrasco has been very good again at LV tonight. 6 IP, 2 ER and 6 K's. But as usual, he is getting no support from the bats.

How lame a lineup do you have when Miguel Cairo is hitting cleanup?

[regalmeans]

My god the Nat's announcers NEED to stop whining about how the umpire's strike zone is different for the Phillies and is favoring them. I am so sick of their broadcast team.

[Benson]

Dunn = DH

[MG]

BAP - I don't think it will be so much an issue within games early as it will be after opposing scouts have a better read on him/teams start to see Happ a few starts.

Happ needs to use that curveball at some point because we know what happens to 2-pitch starters in this league after a while.

You can be a successful middle reliever but it is damn hard to make a living as a starter.

[MPN]

Chooch-tastic.

[NEPP]

Dibble whine about something...imagine that.

[IOP]

I can deal with this broadcast team infinitely more than I can the likes of Michael Kay and Al Leiter.

[bay_area_phan]

Cholly evidently doesn't share the view that Happ should come out after 5. On this one, I agree with Cholly. 87 pitches isn't a huge number and Happ has been good enough to hold the Nats to 1 run. The only way to stretch Happ out to the point where he can throw 100+ pitches is to let him throw 100+ pitches.

[curt]

denny - Carrasco's arrival date just got moved up - hopefully he's smelling it.

[MG]

Cholly looks like he is playing this right. Let Happ start the 6th but have Durbin ready to go if needed. Solid strategy.

[NEPP]

BAP...your logic has no place here.

[denny b.]

If you were stuck having to broadcast 162 games for that crap team, you'd whine too.

Why did they get rid of Don Sutton for Dibble anyway? Sutton was a good broadcaster. Did he leave on his own?

Carrasco 7 IP, 2 ER, 6 K's. Marson with 2 hits and a caught stealing.

Taylor now hitting over .330 at Reading.

[johnnysanz3]

Interesting. They are sticking to a strict pitch count with Happ.

[MG]

Good call by Cholly. Happ is pushing "E' and no reason not to put in Durbin here.

[denny b.]

"Cholly looks like he is playing this right. Let Happ start the 6th but have Durbin ready to go if needed. Solid strategy"

I kinda agree. Give him one baserunner and then take him out. And you can stretch him out too.

I just have a bad feeling about seeing Zimmerman again, with a lefty.

[NEPP]

So what's Happ got against Willingham?

[MG]

Happ was pretty solid on the strike-ball count but his control was definitely a bit more erratic tonight including some trouble establishing that inside strike consistenly. Still, he largely did his job and now the bullpen needs to do their job.

[johnnysanz3]

Happ still has to regain his curveball, he threw a few today, I don't think he threw any in his last start. He has yet to look bad in the majors. I like the guy.

[MG]

Durbin has been thoroughly mediocre this year so far like I thought he would be last year for the Phils.

[MG]

Durbin has been leaving way too many pitches right over the plate and really struggling with his control at times. His slider also doesn't seem to have the same bite this year either.

[NEPP]

Durbin is really starting to piss me off...he sucks this year.

[curt]

All of that life Durbin's hard stuff had last summer is gone. Now he's just another nibbler.

[redbeard]

howard should had that, and wtf is werth doing.

[MG]

Brain farts defensively all around on that play. Somewhere the Nats are right back in this game even after a weak starting pitching effort.

[NEPP]

Maybe Durbin goes away when Romero comes back? I'd feel more comfortable with Condrey coming in now.

[G-Town Dave]

I know why Charlie did it, but I had a bad feeling about bringing Durbin into this game. His 9th vs. Florida the other night was not a good sign.

[Knight]

Werth totally blew that play. He's gotta field that cleanly.

[tg082]

It seems like Durbin doesn't have an out pitch. He's getting ahead of guys, but then it's just fastball, fastball, fastball.

[bay_area_phan]

Durbin is starting to give Taschner a run for his money in the race to be the odd man out of the pen when Romero returns. Durbin obviously brings a lot more to the table than Taschner, but he has been pretty awful of late.

[goody]

Things I never expected to see in print, and especially 2 nites in a row: "Cairo batting cleanup".

Rumors that Amaro is actively seeking SP AND bench help means only one thing, other teams are demanding Bruntlett and Cairo in any trade for their top pitchers.

[GM-Carson]

Charlie Manuel misses Jimy Williams, because he's back to make horrible game altering decisions this year. I understand Happ's pitch count was climbing, but Durbin is terrible anymore. Also, Werth's defense in RF has been very bad this season. His arm is very erratic and he's done that bobble few times now.

[NEPP]

goody, if that's the case we can forget about getting another starter. I, for one, WILL NOT give up Bruntlett or Cairo. They are the future of this organization!!!

[tg082]

I just got here tonight, so rereading the thread, I have a question: who's the "wife beater" to whom Sampson alluded? Clint Hurdle? Elijah Dukes?

[MG]

I am one to criticize Cholly's bullpen decisions but how can you fault him with Durbin there. It was either Park/Condrey/Durbin.

Cholly had Durbin ready to go and put in a good spot. Durbin just failed to do his job and the defense let him down.

[bathtubhippo]

well, condrey might have been a better choice, given his aptitude for inducing ground ball outs...but condrey is the 7th inning guy these days...!

[denny b.]

Thought Durbin should have been in to face Willingham. That would be my only quibble with Cholly so far.

Durbin has become way too "hit or miss" to trust with a lead anymore. Romero can't get here quick enough.

[G-Town Dave]

I know Rollins is 2-4 so far tonight, but he's seen a grand total of 6 pitches, & never more than 2 in any on AB. That's ridiculous.

[bay_area_phan]

Not everyone will admit it, but literally every regular poster on this board knows where this game is headed: a Brad Lidge blown save.

[bathtubhippo]

naw, bap...if there is one team that 2009 brad lidge can handle, it's the nats.

[redbeard]

looks like werth is playing stoned again, almost lost that one

[Hydrant]

BAP: Quiet now. Let's be optimists for a change.

Why doesn't Scott Eyre come out to Flo Rida's "In The Ayer"? :)

[TNA]

wow. that was a shockingly efficient inning from Eyre

[curt]

Sounds like Cholly shot down any notion that Park would ever escape the pen again.