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Friday, May 29, 2009


Give a couple of them a shot and see what happens.

I'd love to see what Carrasco could do with a non-little league defense behind him.

I also would take Myers any day of the week over Jason "F'n" Marquis, he stinks.

If Happ doesn't pitch well tonight, then Amaro needs to get on the horn ASAP. I am really nervous about this sticky situation we are in. Hopefully Amaro doesn't let me down, because I am sure you guys will let me know if he does.

I think Happ is fine as a 4/5 guy. His stuff is good enough for that role. Making him a #3 is not good though and that's what he is right now...that's if you assume Blanton is the de facto #2.

Man, our rotation sucks right now.

I worry that starting Carrasco too soon could "Gavin Floyd" him.

NEPP: Yea our rotation is in the crapper.

DoubleH: I agree. In my ideal world, I would bring Carpenter back up as our #5.

KK Baby! Give him another shot!

What are the chances Park ends up being inserted back into the rotation? I don't like the idea of it, but without an obvious choice in the farm system, it seems like the FO might just be compelled to put CHP back in until they can work out a trade.

Maybe everyone in the majors lost his 'book' by now.

"KK Baby! Give him another shot!"

He stinks too! That whole 21 Win thing was an Illusion.

Park is unlikely to return to the rotation. Now that he's in the pen, which is where they wanted him all along, he'll stay there.

Ugh, I can feel a depressed night at the ballpark tonight for me. And we are facing a lefty tonight, which is going to be double depressing...

Well, you know the Phils only win when the odds are stacked against them, and quite frankly, the odds couldn't be more stacked against them than right expect a run of some sort. Of course, 3 games against the Nats can't hurt.

Ideas that came to mind (some more outlandish than others):

1. A three-way trade with Houston and San Diego that would bring Oswalt and Peavy to Philadelphia, Werth, Donald and Carrasco to San Diego and Kendrick and Marson to Houston.

2. Donald, Carrasco, Kendrick, Carpenter and Marson to Seattle for Bedard & Washburn.

3. Donald, Kendrick, Carrasco & Marson to Colorado for Marquis & Adkins

4. Donald, Kendrick, Carrasco, Carpenter, Worley and Marson to Cleveland for Lee, Carmona & DeRosa

5. Donald to Boston for Penny; sign Ben Sheets

6. Werth, Feliz, Kendrick, Carrasco, Donald to Toronto for Halladay & Rolen (what can I say; I was always a Rolen fan)

I'd go Kendrick. The guy has shown he won't be overwhelmed, and has had serious success before at the major league level. Wouldn't be a bad idea to see if he simply got burned out at the end of last year.

But I'd be much more entertained if we went with Bastardo. If the Phillies think he can keep his head and his control if called up, then he's probably be the best choice.

I would add one more name to that list, although he needs 5 or 6 more rehab starts: Gustavo Chacin.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily call Carpenter's first start "discouraging." For the first 4 innings, he was serviceable; in the fifth inning, he completely fell apart. In short, he pitched like a guy making his major league debut. The fact that he has followed up that start with 2 strong starts at AAA suggests to me that he's still first in line to get the next call-up.

Incidentally, I wouldn't mind if they reacquired Dellucci (DFA from Cleveland) if Werth were moved in a deal for pitching. I know we need another LH like we need a hole in the head, but a platoon of Dellucci/Mayberry might be enough to get through the season if it means acquiring much needed pitching.

BAP, pulitzer prize winning, tongue in cheek GENIUS in the last thread. Although, as stated, your full sentences, rational thought and use of punctuation causes you to fail your audition. Please try again after some electroshock therapy, which as we've learned, makes you much, much dumber.

To paraphrase a very insightful, thought provoking visionary named b00b:
Bastardo > Carrasco
Bastardo >> Kendrick
RJ Swindle >>>>>> Kendrick

That being said, my money is on Worley to "take hold" after an express bus between Philly and LV tries out a few other options first.

Brian: Serious Success? Come on man. I am mr. Positive, but he has done "OK" at best. He walks too many batters. And Bastardo isn't ready yet.

Mac Tonight: I hate EVERY Proposal you offered.Just awful.

1. Would never happen

2. I hate Bedard & Washburn

3. I hate Marquis, he stinks

4,5 & 6 Just crazy

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Tommy.

1. Might have to sweeten the deal to Houston, but stranger deals have happened.

2. I think Bedard would do quite well in CBP. As for Washburn, I don't like him either, but we need ML ready arms. It's not like he'd pitch in Philly beyond '09.

3. Marquis is no stud, but if he were inserted into the rotation today, he'd be our second best SP. The deal would also land a RH bat.

4 & 6 are pretty crazy and unlikely, but I said that from the outset. I still would love to see either of them go down. As for 5 (Penny for Donald, sign Sheets), it's my least favorite of the list, but probably the most likely to happen.

Mac: Your still my man, just my crazy picky opinion. Just when I hear Marquis, it makes me dizzy. When I picture Penny, I picture him throwing his arm out every year in July. When I think Bedard, I think un proven over a long stretch. And when I think Washburn, I slightly Vomit.

Pedro Martinez has "Phillies" written all over him. He's old enough (barely), couldn't break a window with his fastball, will never give you more than 5 innings, and will take 45 minutes to work 1/2 of an inning, and won't cost a prospect, a draft pick, or hardly any money. Get ready for it.

Yeah, but last I heard, Pedro wants an insane amount of money. Unless his demands have lessened, I don't see the Phils biting.

Although, I bet Pedro would love to get a few in against the Mets.

Physical ailments notwithstanding, this team has no answer for the 2009 rotation. Hamels, Blanton and Happ should be able to hold it together (barring injury), but with Myers out and Moyer pitching like every other 47 year old non-knuckleballer, a deal for pitching is necessary.

Believe me...I'd much rather see Peavy, Oswalt or Halladay in pinstripes (particularly because their contract will keep them in town for several years), but if this cannot be done, I have doubts that we could limp into the playoffs by solving this problem internally.

It's either Bastardo or Kendrick. Hard to say which way they'd lean. If they're thinking srictly short-term, my guess is Bastardo. Longer-term, they'd probably opt for Kendrick.

My opinions of the options:

Bastardo: Despite the impressive K/BB, I'm not sold that Antonio has a solid third offering that he'll need at the MLB level. I think he needs a little more time to develop that.

Kendrick: One stat tells you all you need to know about why Carpenter jumped Kendrick, BB/9. Kyle is just putting too many runners on base with free passes and he pitches to contact so it kills him. I don't regard him as an option. As an aside, as I watched Burke Badenhop pitch on Wednesday, he looked like what Kyle Kendrick should be... a turbo sinker, good slider, plus decent curve and change. Kyle needs these other pitches to be effective when his sinker isn't good.

Carpenter: Aside from that '08 spring training start against the Yankees, never been impressed. He's got a .267 BABIP and a 5.16 FIP at Lehigh this season, so don't get too enamored with the 2-0 record and the ERA.

Carrasco: To say he's pitched better than his record indicates may be an understatement. Lowest BB/9 so far in his career, highest K/BB. I think everyone is missing the high BABIP and the low FIP. This guy is still very good, just he's getting unlucky and the D he's getting isn't great.

Lopez: Like Carrasco, has been getting unlucky / bad D. If we're talking about a Moyer replacement or a potential 5th starter, I think he beats Park right now on the options list. As far as replacing Brett Myers, no way.

Worley: I do not think it's worth starting his service time clock for a spot start, and I do not want to have him here trying to learn in a pennant race. He's good, but less ready than the other options, so it's best not to disturb what he has going.

I would support calling up Carrasco and allowing him to take Myers turn until at least the end of June. The trade market is going to solidify more by then, plus we'll know better what we have (There is no way the Ms move Bedard before July).

If we need someone to take Moyer's spot once, I would say Carpenter, but know what you're getting there. It's not a long term solution.

I love how Werth goes into a funk and suddenly everyone wants to trade him. Ten days ago he statistically would've been the best OF on most major league teams and now he's a borderline starter?

Brian G: no one wants to trade him, but are coping with the realization that they might have to if a frontline starter is going to be acquired.

Brian: I don't think it's Werth's recent slump that makes people view him as tradeable. I think it's the fact that Taylor looks like he's pretty close to major league ready and Werth is likely to walk after next year anyhow. Of course, Taylor is still probably a year away and Werth's contract status is the very thing that would make him unappealing to any non-contending team. Hence, Werth is not going anywhere.

thephaithful: But that makes no sense. I assume the frontline starter we get will be from a rebuilding squad (bc who else would trade a frontline starter?). So why would a rebuilding team want a guy like Werth who's going to be a free agent in a year and 4 months?

You can forget Halladay altogether. You'd have to literally give Toronto the entire farm and Ricciardi made it pretty clear in an interview that they have no interest in trading him.

SD would want lots of pitching for that park-Not sure the Phillies have the pitching studs to give for Peavy, and he'd have to wave his no trade clause which he wasn't willing to do for Atlanta or the White Sox. Sounds like he will end up a Cub.

I think the most reasonable is Oswalt who has been there for years. 3 or 4 good prospects could land him.

I don't think the Santana deal helped anyone's cause for trading a top line starter for a bunch of maybe's which is what all those Philly prospects seem to be. Of course the Mets had to cough up a lot of cash, but that the trade was a major steal, and other than Gomez it doesn't appear anyone is gonna have much impact.

What an argumentative bunch! Bedard and Bastardo.

braing: good point, I just saw most of the trade talk around Werth as "if i had to trade him.. I would"

Metfan: Pretty good points, although I thought Atlanta was one of the places Peavy has accepted?

I think Halladay is a pipedream and that Oswalt does look like a very good choice. Fleecing Ed Wade should be the #1 option for any GM in need for anything.

Met fan: The Santana deal is just a different version of the same trade that Gillick made with Bobby Abreu. Once you decide you're not going to pay the guy what he wants, you have to move him. But then, somebody has to pay him, and with guys like that, there's only a couple teams who can afford it, so you really have a limited market.

With Oswalt, I think the problem is Drayton McClane. He's never been willing to let his team properly rebuild and considering Oswalt is from Texas, is a big draw, I could see him holding on to him until the bitter end. Further, I don't like the fact he's still under contract for 2010 and 2011 (for alot of money) considering it seems his numbers are already in regression.

thephaithful: Michael Bourn is now batting .286 with an OBP of .358, 28R, 1HR, 11RBI, and is 16/19 in SB. Yes, we got a great deal on Lidge last year, but Bourn is maturing into a nice leadoff hitter.

MPN: Don't worry, the more Bourn scores, the more runs Gasman Geary will give up.

Amazing how opinion is all over the map. No clear favorite from this group.

JW: I know, what is clout going to do with no Beerleaguer consensus to rail against?

Also, were you TRYING to BL jinx the Phillies when you casually assumed they'd sweep the Nats and be 28-20 after the weekend? Come on, you have to know better than that.

@JW -- To me the lack of consensus means, that for the first time in a long time we have plenty of depth in the pitching ranks that are "near" major league ready it seems. Even if some are eventually AAAA's like a Brain Mazone. But they aren't quite the Paul Abbott option either.

Basically, i'm saying it's a good thing that we have these kinds of options. Especially since we may have to fill 2 spots in the rotation.

Of course the other issue is that none of these guys are the next can't miss prospect, either. Unless we can get Bastardo David Price's Agent/Publicist.

JW - I think that is because there really isn't a really good candidate and thus the Phils interest in turning over every rock for another starter via a trade.

Amaro figures that at some point (especially with Myers now likely done) that he is going to trade for another starter at some point. Just better to possibly do it now instead of auditioning the spot over the next two months.

One thing that I have surprised by is the degree of apathy that Myers' injury has seem to illicit in general from the Phils' fan base. I guess a WFC does calm the savages for a bit.

Doesn't Oswalt have a full no trade clause?
Also if you add a man to the forty man roster are there any other financial obligations for that?

Oswalt would be my #1 target followed by Webb, followed by Penny.

They might also have to demote Mayberry in favor of another arm for the pen. Until they make a trade, we could see a lot of short outings from this group of starters.

Mac, with regard to your thought that they sign Ben Sheets, I thought about that too, but haven't heard much about him lately. I took a look, and found these two items:

This one, from a Q & A Jeff Wilson ran at the Dallas Morning News:

""Q: There has been a lot of talk of the Rangers possibly signing Ben Sheets. What is the exact injury/surgery Sheets had? What is the usual time frame for a recovery? Also, the Rangers outfield appears to be very deep. Do you foresee this team trading an outfielder for bullpen help?

Russ, Austin

WILSON: Sheets had surgery to repair a torn flexor tendon in his right elbow. There's been no word about what Dr. James Andrews did when he cut the arm open in February, but Jason Jennings has twice suffered the same injury. The Rangers' right-hander went aggressive the second time. A hole was drilled in one of bones in his arm, and the tendon was pulled through the hole and tied down.

Jennings should serve as poster child for not rushing back from the injury. He hurried back for spring training in 2008 and was down again in May. The Rangers seem as if they're still being cautious with Jennings this season, a year after the second surgery. Sheets might be throwing again by later this summer, but he would be wise to wait until 2010.

In other words, don't count on Sheets for a stretch run. The Rangers could deal an outfielder for bullpen help, but I'm not sure anyone from the big-league roster is a candidate.""

And this one, from a column Wilson wrote on May 15th:

""By JEFF WILSON / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News

Ben Sheets isn't throwing, and the free agent doesn't know when he will crank up his surgically repaired right arm again or if he will be able to pitch this season.

But he's starting to find his way to Rangers Ballpark in Arlington. He watched batting practice from the top step of the Rangers' dugout Friday before walking into the clubhouse with Mike Maddux.

"The man's got good taste and knows where to hang out," said general manager Jon Daniels, who called Sheets' presence an informal visit with his old pitching coach.

Sheets said he will visit with his surgeon, Dr. James Andrews, next week and hopes to learn when he can resume throwing after having a torn flexor tendon fixed in February.

That injury, which was confirmed in a physical with the Rangers, killed a preliminary agreement on a two-year contract about a week before spring training.

Sheets said that he hasn't considered when he might start negotiating with teams. No club is likely to sign him until after the June amateur draft, when it wouldn't have to surrender a second-round draft pick for signing him.""

Signing Sheets would be awesome if he were healthy. But that doesn't look to be the case, and he also looks like he's really interested in signing with the Rangers.

Two trade chips you may be overlooking,Maj. and Koplove. There must be teams needing a closer. Koplove has been lights out from the PIG Pen.

My observation over the past 4 years is that the Beerleaguer consensus is almost always wrong. And when there is no consensus, see what Brian G thinks and go the other way.

If I'm Amaro, I'd try Carrasco. His stuff is major league. Hope Charlie and Doobs can keep his head straight.

P.S. For those impressed by the recent outing of Batsardo vs Buffalo, it should be noted that the Bisons are the worst team in the league (13-32). Durham, the team Carrasco tamed, is one of the best (30-17).

Well arguably the worst standing tactical manager in the NL got fired today in Colorado with Clint Hurdle's dismissal. With Yost and Hurdle both gone, I would argue that Cholly is one of the weaker managers in the NL from a tactical decision-making perspective right now.

The other reason to pick Carrasco over Bastardo... we already have three LHP in our rotation. It'd be nice to have some balance.

I think the options in the post today are way more realistic than yesterday.

For a teams all-time ace (Halladay, Webb, Oswalt) you don't just pick up the phone and make a trade. Besides every other team in the league wanting in on the action, you have owners, sponsors and in Halladays case, probably the Prime Minister of Canada involved. Guys like that don't move in May or early June and don't move quickly.

Phil's could probably get one of those aces, but it will take forever to work out and will cost an absolute fortune in prospects.

I'll bet on Carpenter again for 2 or 3 turns before anything happens.

This Outman kid that is pitching for the A's, is he a Phormer Phils Pharmer?

It seems that I am in the unique poistion of being overly informed about the Phillies farm system when discussing the team with a casual fan, and disastrously under-informed on BL'er.

The Inquirer is reporting Myers has decided to have the surgery and miss the season.

MG: I agree that Clint Hurdle may very well be a bumbling moron as a manager, but I think Buster Olney makes a good point about him.

Olney (paraphrased): Think about the guys that were the stars of that 07 WS team: Tulowitzki, Atkins, Helton, Francis, Morales, Corpas. None of them have played well in a while and Matt Holliday is gone. Hard to lay all the blame on Hurdle.

A Bit Of Non-Game News (Apologies If It Has Already Been Posted):>Kalas To Be Inducted Into Phillies Wall Of Fame

Does it really matter if 4/5 of your rotation is left-handed? I'm struggling to see how. Besides, 2 of our lefties have reverse lefty-righty splits, so they pitch more like right-handers.

These games against the Nationals are a lose/lose proposition. With the Mets' (and Phils') recent sweep of the Nats as an example, these are games you have to win and get no credit for doing so. It's almost like you get 0 points for a win and -1 for a loss to use a hockey-like analogy.

Since we seem to be voting, I'll cast my vote for Carpenter as Option 1, but on a very short leash. A short leash as in: his next start had better be an improvement over the last one. Bastardo is my Option 1A, but I'd like to see him have a few more good games at AAA.

As for realistic trade options, I would say Bedard is the best option, followed by Lee, Marquis, Penny, and then the likes of Washburn or Garland. Guys like Peavy, Webb, Halladay, and Oswalt are just pipe dreams; that is, you have to be smoking something in a pipe to believe they are realistic possibilities.

Yo, new thread

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