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Tuesday, May 26, 2009


My opinion based on topics at hand today:

- Still believe Lidge should be closer and let him work out of his pitching slump, or DL him. Do not move him to setup.

- Marquis is a big fat "NO". His numbers have decreased each year since 2004.

-Bedard again is a big fat "NO", because he will A.) cost to much B.) will be a free agent and most importantly C.) can be a headcase

- Our best option is to let things roll until end of June. If we need pitching still then maybe tap into Eddie Wade and get Oswalt for possibly Donald and Kendrick, or something to that effect.

From Previous Thread:

"Ibanez is in an assisted living community in 2011 after the roids have ravaged his system for the next 2 years."

Really?? You think he is on roids? You are wrong. His body hasn't changed at all. The reason he has so many Homeruns this year is because as I said all along, he is seeing more fastballs than he did ever in Seattle. Becuase of hitting between Utley and Howard. This is exactly why I wanted him here all along. He hits for contact but if he gets a fastball, he can drive it.

JW: Good points on Mayberry. Agreed that his best value to the club is as a bench OF right now. It's not like this guy is a #1 prospect who's been rushed (Delmon Young?) and part-time work might decrease his long-term value. If the guy plays his way into forcing a bigger decision, than that's a good thing. If he doesn't, he's still an upgrade over what we had before (Cairo), and we gave up Greg Golson for him. Win-win either way.

Also, considering Taylor and Brown are breathing down his neck, he deserves the shot now to produce at the MLB level and force his way into the discussion.


I was a professional weightlifter for 13 years. I know roids when I see roids.
You can think what you like, but it is what it is.

From Previous Thread:

Keep convincing yourself that no one has scouted his ability to hit fastballs. Or that its from hitter protection which, I'm sure has some small effect.

But the next time they show him on screen you watch that veign on the left side of his neck. You defend him after that, and good luck sleeping buddy.

"But the next time they show him on screen you watch that veign on the left side of his neck."

Taco: JUST because he has a vein in his neck that equals steroids? When I played baseball and would workout I am sure I had a vein in my neck and I wasn't on steroids. Last time I checked a vein in your neck isn't a symptom.

"Keep convincing yourself that no one has scouted his ability to hit fastballs"

They most likely do scout his fastball tendencies, BUT that's my point, what else are you going to do? If you pitch him breaking balls he hits them for doubles,

As long as he keeps hitting dongs I will be sleeping like a baby.

Mayberry is a great 4th OF for this club. I am slightly worried about him not getting enough AB's (like Dobbs), but I guess he will take all the PH opportunities away from Gnome.

From last thread: This notion that a Marquis trade is the equivalent to the Joe Blanton trade is wrong. Coming into the '08 season, Blanton was thought of as a good #3 pitcher. Jason Marquis is a #5, thats it and thats all. Throw in the fact that Blanton only made 3m last year and Marquis is a salary dump at 9m, it won't take near the prospects to get Marquis. There is no way the Phillies give up Taylor, Drabek or Knapp for Marquis.
I know a lot of guys don't like Bedard, but I would give up Donald, Savery and Kendrick/Bastardo for him.

Tripod, that's the right attitude.
If he is or isn't this is America, land of the free and the brave.
Wherein you are innocent until proven guilty.

But rest assured.
He's guilty.

And Tommy, yes, you had a veign. I have a veign, we all have that veign. But they don't all look like a McDonalds Milkshake Straw.

Yikes, I really hope I dont have veigns. Sounds like a nasty disease.

"But rest assured.
He's guilty."

Really? Great job, counselor. You've got the Ibanez case all wrapped up, and the only proof it took was a bulging vein and the fact that he can hit a fastball.


you freakin meat head

From previous thread:

"God, could there be a more Phillies-esque acquisition than Jason Marquis?"

Very true, Myno. Rosenthal reported on Saturday that the Phils were kicking the tires on different pitchers west of the Mississippi. He noted Peavy (too much money), Bedard (too stubborn), and Washburn (too Joe Blanton). But the most intriguing name to those of us watching the FOX telecast in Philly was Roy Oswalt. Oswalt, 31, had his best season in 2005 with a record of 20-12 with a 2.94 ERA and 184 K's in 241.2 IP.

Since then his number have diminished, although he posted 17 wins with a mediocre Houston team. I personally would love to see the Phillies pick him up. He signed a 5-yr/$73MM contract in 2006 and is due $14MM this season, $15 million in 2010 and $16 million in 2011. He has a complete no-trade clause and a $2 million buyout of a $16 million club option for 2012. If the Phillies want to return to October, I think a move like this would be very helpful.

Any other names we should be looking at?

MVP: Bedard will cost too much money? What would you rather the Phillies' owners do with their money? Use it to buy yachts for the whole ownership group? To the casual fan, a player's salary should only be an issue if it threatens to hamper the team down the road -- and that's impossible when the player is in the walk year of his contract.

Also, upon what possible basis do you conclude that Bedard is a headcase? If he's a headcase, give me a rotation full of headcases, because Bedard has been one of the top 20 staters in baseball over the last 4 seasons.

It is difficult for me to see how anyone who calls themselves a Phillies fan could be against trading for Bedard. Then again, there are people here who don't want to trade for Peavy either. Go figure.

Tripod (voice).

Me and Taco agree on almost everything.

It wouldn't surprise me if Ibanez was doing Roids, and frankly, I don't care. This all a bunch of moralistic finger-pointing about steroids that ignores so many other things. The simple fact is this: There's way more reasons to be doing HGH and other undectable drugs than not to be. Hank Aaron used amphetamines. So did Willie Mays. Mickey Mantle did steroids. Deal with it.

Oh, and yeah, Ibanez on roids is way better than a Boozed-up Burrell. At least Raul cares about the game, Burrell just cared about sleeping with every waitress in the Rittenhouse district. I'll take Roid-champ Ibanez on my squad any day.


Any odds on the game being played? I've got tix and was wondering if I should head down?

BAP - I think those fans must be related to the Yankees fans that didn't want to trade Phil Hughes plus for J. Santana. Oops.

Also . . . not that I'm hot to get Jason Marquis, but his numbers certainly have not "decreased each year since 2004." Marquis was a league average pitcher in 2005. He was a league average pitcher in 2007. He was a league average pitcher in 2008. So far this year, he has actually been slightly better than a league average pitcher. The only year in which his numbers declined was 2006. Other than that, they have remained quite consistent.

****I was a professional weightlifter for 13 years. I know roids when I see roids.
You can think what you like, but it is what it is.****

That's the dumbest statement I've ever heard...seriously.

Obvious troll is being obvious.

I'll admit to doing a 180 on the Mayberry situation. I was among those who thought he was better served playing everyday in AAA than sitting on the bench. But now that he's here, he feels like another potent weapon on the bench and simply makes the team better.

And I'd basically just echo Jack's sentiments. I think considering how much Vic and Ibanez especially have played this year, Cholly can find a way to work him in here and there to keep him sharp; especially with more interleague games coming. If he plays himself into a more meaningful role, that's a good problem.


This public service announcement brought to you by the Beerleaguer Elite (tm).

Pope Mike Francesa on WFAN just proclaimed that the Phillies have a better lineup than both the Yankees and the Red Sox. In typical fashion it took it until the Phillies beat his blessed Yankees to respect them, not having watched one of the 8 million Met Philly games.

Their lineup is stacked, NL or AL, but it's no Boston lineup, and even the Yankee one is a stretch.

He said Ruiz was doing a "Johnny Bench" this weekend

As I stated days ago... Vic and Ibanez have missed a grand total of one half inning so far this year. Matt Stairs or Greg Dobbs or Eric Bruntlett were not the kind of player that would allow Charlie to bench either of those two players.

Mayberry legitimately allows them to do that by benching Rauuuuul against a tough lefty to give him a day off or benching Vic and moving Werth to center without having to put a bad defender in RF.

So, at age 37, AFTER getting his last big contract, Raul has decided to start juicing? Fascinating.

Don't know if this has been thrown out there before, but...

Joe Blanton Career ERA+ : 98
Jason Marquis Career ERA+ : 97

That being said, Marquis is older and costs more in both money and prospects. Also, Blanton is suffering from bad luck (.353 BABIP and a sharp increase in homers), he should return to earth eventually. He actually has a higher K/BB ratio than last year by a decent amount.

Moyer is also the bigger problem. The view that last year was a mirage - and thus that giving Moyer a 2-year contract was a mistake - is becoming increasingly vindicated. There's some hope for him to turn it around, but not nearly as much. Hitters are swinging at him more often, making more contact, and sending the balls further, all while he's throwing less in the strike zone.

Met fan: WFAN is just as over-reactionary as WIP.

The Phils lineup is stacked, but the lineup that the Yanks threw out there against our lefties wasn't all that impressive. The top of the AL East didn't represent really well this weekend against the top of NL East.

Ruiz also happens to play pretty well on the big stage. He had a good series.

For those who want to know about a cheaper solution :

Carlos Carrasco has a 5.81 ERA but a 3.24 FIP. He's striking out 4 times as many batters as he's walking, and letting up less than a homer per 9. The culprit? An astounding 38.9% of balls in play are going for hits. Babe Ruth's career average on balls in play was .340, Ted Williams was .329, and Pujols is only at .322. To say that Carrasco has been unlucky is a bit of an understatement.

The fact that the possible acquisition of Jason Marquis even merits debate says a lot about the state of the Phillies' starting rotation. Also, tonight would be a fine time to start Mayberry in RF in place of Werth, who has looked increasingly bad. I'd like to see Vic right back out there, though: I think he'll be zoned in after yesterday's "f-up".

Regardless, I really hope the Phils get this game in. I've been on the "Blanton Plan" almost all season, but this week, ending up having tickets for tomorrow instead of today, I could finally see a light at the end of the tunnel. Of course considering how the Phillies have been playing at home so far it may well not matter who's pitching, but still ...

Carrasco will be starting for us before the year's over.

Dave X: Hopefully the front office notices that. What remains to be seen with Carrasco is mostly between the ears, from what I can tell. His pattern seems to be that if something goes wrong, it compounds and he gives up the big inning. That can be troubling.

If the front office hears that he's improving mentally and thinks he's capable of handling the big league, I hope they ignore the surface numbers and see the peripherals that are actually quite good, as you point out.

Dave X always brings something great to the table.

Joe Blanton should be fine.

Jamie Moyer is the problem. I said it before his last two starts. Eventually, someone is going to have to make the hard choice.

Tonight's Lineup (via Zolecki on Twitter): Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, Ibanez LF, Werth RF, Feliz 3B, Ruiz C, Blanton P.

So much for starting Mayberry ... :-(

New York Mets have called up their uber-prosect, Fernando Martinez, to replace Ryan Church who has been DLed.

By the way, currently on the DL for the Mets:

Delgado, Church, Reyes, O. Perez

Out for at least three games:


In other words, we need to win and have the Nats do the same tonight?

Carrasco has been unlucky and also suffers from bad defense behind him.

OT, but how badly do you think Moyer would pitch in the minors without the big Phils D behind him?

Can you imagine if the Phils went into tonight's game without Howard, Rollins, Werth, Victorino and Myers?

Our lineup would be:
SS: Bruntlett
CF: Mayberry
2B: Utley
LF: Ibanez
RF: Stairs
3B: Feliz
1B: Dobbs
CA: Ruiz

CJ: Yikes. Poor Mayberry.

I see a lot of strikeouts there.

It's funny how these Mets "uber-prospects" are never all that uber. And, other than one great season in the rookie leagues, there is noting uber about Martinez's minor league numbers.

bap: Martinez's numbers in AAA so far this year are pretty good. He's been injury prone in the past, but this year he's started to put it together. He played his way into the call-up.

42 games: 8 HR, 28 RBI, .291 avg, .882 ops.

His May numbers are especially good.

Rosenthal is on DNL right now and says the Phils are definitely intent on getting another starter, the question is only which one at this point.

Even in CJ's "what if the Phils had 5 key injuries" lineup, Ruiz still bats 8th.

Poor Chooch.

Wait, so we're facing a lefty starter and tonight is the night Charlie goes back to L-L-L in the middle of the lineup? I don't see why. Would it be that hard to go Jimmy-Shane-Utley-Howard-Werth-Ibanez if you're gonna switch up the lineup?

I mean, really?

I hope the rain comes. With Blanton on the mound and most of our key guys with terrible history against Miller (Howard, Rollins, Ibanez a combined 2-27), I really, really don't like our chances tonight.

Also, we suck at home.

drew: I know Martinez's numbers are up this year, and I know he's only 20. I don't dispute that he's a nice prospect. But one good month doesn't turn him into an uber-prospect.

My general point was that any nice prospect who plays in the Mets or Yankees organization is portrayed by the media as an elite blue chip prospect (i.e., Lastings Milledge, Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Mike Pelfrey). If Michael Taylor were in the Mets' system, he would get so much hype that he could probably be traded straight-up for Albert Pujols.

J.R. King: I'm not sure what disaster would have to befall the Phillies to get the catcher out of the 8 spot!!!

CJ -

Abe Nunez' return.

is beltran really out 3 games? what's wrong with him?

Just saw on that the rained out game against the Mets (from Sunday, May 3rd) is rescheduled as a day/night doubleheader on Sunday, September 13th.

Considering how many people have Sunday season tickets, I'd imagine that there will be a good number of people hanging out in the lots between games. The good news is that it will be Phillies fans and Mets fans, so it should be pretty peaceful in the lots between games.

Of course, there won't be much to do between games (and people wouldn't want to leave the lots & return, having to pay parking twice), so I'm guessing that people will just plan on grilling & drinking between games. Yes, the nightcap should be a fun experience.

Dukes: Bruised knee, had an MRI.

thanks, CJ. by the way, i noticed last night that jimmy might have hurt his shoulder in that dive. anyone hear anything about that today? he's in the lineup tonight so that's good news.

The Mets lineup tonight, minus a few injured stars:

RF Angel Pagan
2B Luis Castillo
3B David Wright
LF Gary Sheffield
1B Fernando Tatis
CF Fernando Martinez
C Omir Santos
SS Ramon Martinez
P Livan Hernandez

bap: i will grant you the hype surrounding the prospects in the mets and yankees farm system. but with martinez, this isn't another daniel murphy (who is a solid ballplayer, but not the second coming).

Martinez has been consistently ranked as a Top MLB prospect - not just by the Mets hype machine.

drew: Yeah... considering that hype came as he was just 18 and 19, it's still a little suspect. Each year, he's gone down in the rankings. This year, he was ranked 32nd overall by, his lowest ranking yet.

Dave X: "Marquis is older and costs more in both money and prospects" than Blanton.

Definitely older and definitely more money, but you're dead wrong about how much he'll cost in prospects. Won't be remotely as expensive as Blanton.

I meant that we already have Blanton - thus he will cost no prospects go keep.

Dave X: OK, but Marquis would replace Moyer, not Blanton.

For those of us who are not in the Philly area - does it look like this game will be played, or will it be rained out?



Yea a couple of other former prospects David Wright and Jose Reyes haven't really panned out in the Majors.

But that Phillies sytem! Oh baby, watch out!

I wonder how Sheff and Wright feel about playing in that lineup.

clout: Do you see a scenario in which the Phils replace Moyer in the rotation? I just think the chances of that seem slim since he's not injured, won't go to the minors, isn't a bullpen option and isn't going to retire.

How could you see it playing out?

Phils Suck: I don't normally feed the trolls, but I'll make an exception here.

Spend 5 minutes on Metsblog or listen to WFAN and it becomes clear that neither Wright nor Reyes have panned out!!! :-D

The obsessed Mets fans are here already?

EFF: It's hard to blame them... Cerrone turned off comments over at Metsblog.

CJ --

Fortunately for me I don't live in NY and can't listen to WFAN fabricate stuff.

If you think Wright and Reyes aren't very, very good major leaguers than I really don't know what to say, and you should be scorned by your fellow posters who actually have some sense and baseball knowledge.

The problem with you is you think the Phillies winning a WS validates every opinion you have on sports, and everything else in the world. Unfortunately for you, you're wrong.

For the most part (minus some very good, thoughtful posters on this site) Philly fans don't deserve winners, and that's why the ones you get are so few and far between.

Angel Pagan leading off ahaha


Angel Pagan led off last night, too. Or are you just a part time fan?

Phils Suck: I'm a member of Beerleaguer Elite. 'Nuff said.

Looks like the game should be played tonight. Per radar, things seem to be drying out with precip moving to the north. Will be nasty at the ballpark though.

Was watching DNL tonight and they briefly talked about the BoSox surplus of starters. Anyone care to comment on whether or not the Sox would part with Penny or Smoltz? I wouldn't mind Penny so long as the asking price isn't more than one prospect and a throw in. Thoughts from the BLelite?

Phils Suck: CJ was posting in jest. I don't know a single Philly fan who doesn't think Reyes and Wright are good ballplayers. The point that was being made is that NY minor leaguers seem to get more nat'l hype just because they are coming out of the NYY or NYM farm system. Probably has more to do with the epicenter of the media world being located in NY City more than anything else.

But I do take issue with your point that Philly fans don't deserve winners. Yes, the vocal minority should take the blame for millions of fans...come on, man. If that's the case, listening to the WFAN as I have, how can you ever validate NY deserving a single championship, or Boston for that matter. Explain to me, how, Cleveland never wins anything if the fanbase has anything to do with why teams win or lose championships.

CJ: Well, I'm simply responding to comments about Marquis. If the rumors are true and the Phillies are intersted in him, who else would he replace in the rotation? Moyer has pitched the worst of the 5 so far, now that Park is out. If it were me and I got Marquis, I'd put Moyer in the pen until he got himself straightened out. There's always going to be injuries so adding an extra SP is a smart move even if it looks like no spots are open.

Double H:

Your points are fair and I apologize for saying you guys don't deserve winners. I've said before many times I come here for some of the most insightful NL East baseball talk that there is anywhere, and that is a tribute to you guys.

Also to tell a story, I went to Game 1 of the WS in Tampa last year (I was guy on first-base line with Beltran jersey), and I was so pleasantly surprised with the Phillies fans and it was so contrary to all the stories you hear from the national media about how awful you guys are.

CJ's comments angered me, because even though he says that in jest, the fact is they haven't won and you can make those arguments.

So I apologize for saying you guys don't deserve winners. It's not true.

Phils Suck: Apology accepted. I have many friends and family who are Met fans and I don't consider them to be horrible people, even if their choice of team is questionable. /wink

This place is supposed to be about fair commentary and criticism, for which I am thankful.

doubleh wins post of night so far...

Blanton sure does look sharp tonight.

I always get worried when his pitch count starts getting up there.

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