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Wednesday, May 20, 2009


You made the correct choice in seeing Star Trek.

Great movie.

Dave - did you watch tonight's game?
his line was .375/.400/.583 against.
this is against a team, even with its best hitter (Votto), hits a poor .252/.326/.406 on average.

"in my book, that's a barely acceptable start by Hamels."

Hamels has a short leash too?

TNA: Moyer pitched well enough to win, & that's all that can be asked of him at this point. No, he was not great, but neither is he the story of the game. Phillies offense. Aaron Harang. One run. Sad.

And the Bronx Bombers get to prep for this weekend's series by tuning up Adam Eaton tomorrow night.

Despite the fact that the offense was lifeless, I really thought the offense was going to come out in the 7th and and try to get the lead for Grampa... But then 6, 7, 8 went weak ground out... strike out looking... strike out swinging.

250 will wait another day.

klaus - who said anything about Hamels being on a short leash?

dave - the phillies lost tonight because the offense couldn't produce more than a run off a good pitcher. fine; that's going to balance out over the course of the year and in fact the phillies have been giving moyer a ton of run support in general. in any case, the overriding concern is about moyer. he actually did improve slightly tonight. but that's not too hard when you're the worst starting pitcher in the league and you're facing a AA lineup.

moyer's numbers before tonight:


Well I'm glad BAP has weighed in, and Moyer has earned himself no more rope 'as far as he's concerned.' His 2-year contract has given him quite a lot more rope than you're giving him, damn the performance, but keep thinking your opinion counts for something.

If Moyer gets yanked from the starting rotation before the AS break (not counting a bail-out DL stint), I'll eat my hat and post the feast for you guys on webcam.

and to be fair to Moyer, here are the rest of the Phillies' starters:

Moyer: .344/.406/.636 (FIP: 7.65, OPS+ 172,BAbip: .333)
Hamels: .296/.336/.556 (FIP: 4.75, OPS+ 132,BAbip: .351)
Park: .304/.386/.504 (FIP: 5.48, OPS+ 134,BAbip: .321)
Blanton: .305/.372/.512 (FIP: 5.50, OPS+ 132,BAbip: .339)
Myers: .267/.344/.524 (FIP: 6.16, OPS+ 127,BAbip: .275)

TNA: OK ...

Moyer Before Tonight:

4.57 Avg. R Allowed/Start, 8.15 ERA

Moyer Tonight:

3.00 R, 4.50 ERA

I'm not really sure what your point is. All I posted was that Moyer pitched more than adequately against the Reds (a team whose BA entering last night was only .003 less than the Phils, BTW), which he did. I didn't claim that Jamie has turned a corner, or looked sharp, or bought himself time -- quite the opposite, actually.

It appears you're needlessly focusing on the negative aspects of Moyer's outing when there are more relevant points to consider, such as the offense only producing one lousy baserunner after the 4th inning, or the manager running Pedro out at 3rd when he was 2-21 lifetime vs. Harang. Or to put it another way, how did the Phillies allow themselves to lose a game that their worst starting pitcher gave them every opportunity to win?

dave - i'm looking at this game as one of 162 games. you're looking at it in and of itself.

there will be times over a 162 game season where the offense won't produce. and in general, the offense isn't the problem. (btw, you state that pedro was 2-21 against Harang. the way feliz and dobbs have been hitting, i probably would've made that decision as well. but in citing pedro's historical futility in predicting future performance, you've also got to point the finger at utley, who's 7-14 lifetime with a 1.492 OPS against harang. his lack of production today (along with rollins) killed the phillies more than feliz's production from the 7 hole.)
the problem with this team is the pitching and there were very few signs that Moyer improved, if at all. that's my point; if you think it's needlessly negative, i'd argue that while it may be excessively dour, it's definitely an appropriate analysis to make given that this team's pitching warrants game-to-game monitoring for signs of improvement.

Iceman: Make no mistake. I absolutely agree with you that Moyer will get a ton of rope because of the 2-year deal and because . . . well, because he's Jamie Moyer. And, contrary to what you might think, I'm under no illusions that the Phillies are going to (or should) take my opinion into consideration. But this is a baseball blog and we express our opinions --often knowing full well that those opinions have little chance of ever becoming reality. Moyer has a 7+ ERA over his last 10 starts (including the last 2 of ST). Considering he's pitching at an age where no non-knuckleballer has ever succeeded, my opinion is that the Phillies ought to be seriously asking themselves whether he is completely shot and should be replaced. Of course, they should have asked themselves these questions BEFORE they resigned him, but it's too late for that.

As I said in the last thread, Moyer's performance tonight was sort of neutral. If you're not yet convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he's finished, tonight's game would not likely have supplied enough evidence to convince you. But if you're searching for a sign that he might soon turn it around, tonight's game didn't supply it either.

TNA: Fair enough. In any case, I'll certainly take "slight improvement" over "no improvement", & hope that this isn't a game the Phillies wind up regretting come the end of the 162 game portion of the season.

Quite a game out in LA. Big New York sucks chant from the Dodger crowd, for what its worth.

Dodgers just scored the go-ahead run in the 8th on a Russell Martin single off JJ Putz. Putz is looking a lot more like the 60th percentile reliever he was last year than the 99th percentile reliever he was in 2006 and 2007.

Moyer's peripherals don't stand up to the quality start label, even if the 3 ER and 6 IP do. It isn't that often that you have that many base running errors in the same start - letting him escape 9 hits and a walk with only 3 ER. the '08 Phils are starting to look like the '06 Cardinals, where a series of strong pitching performances led the team to the WS, but those performances were above what could be repeated in future years.

Moyer didn't pitch great, but he kept the team in the game despite his poor peripherals. Hopefully he will continue to improve in his next starts, but the Phillies lost this game because their offense did nothing, not because of Moyer. Durbin giving up those two runs put them out of making a realistic comeback. That said Harang did pitch well but you will win few baseball games when you only score 1 run in 9 innings.

BAP: I guess I got confused as to whether or not you thought his spot was really in jeopardy. I think you and I are in agreement when it comes to how foolish it was to give Moyer the two years, but where we differ is how much rope we believe Moyer should be given to work out his issues. Amaro, however, won't use any logic or reasoning we'll think up, because it's all about the dollar signs for him- he signed Moyer to a 2-year deal and he's not going to be made to look foolish (or throw up his hands and just throw the money away) this quickly. Moyer will get many more starts, no matter how painful they are to watch.

My personal opinion: I'm not ready to write Moyer off. Not by a long-shot. Call it blind faith, but I've seen stretches that have had me begging for him to hang it up, only to be proven wrong multiple times. I think, as a veteran, he deserves a pretty long leash to fix it. I also have faith that he would know when to say he's finished, so as to not A) Hurt the club tremendously, or B) Tarnish what has turned out to be a very, very good career.

It's a tough opinion to have in the immediate, given that the entire staff has been so frustrating that everyone is looking for some, any, change to be made towards its improvement. But my glass-half-full (and perhaps overly-idealistic) opinion is that he will find a way to turn it around.

BAP - Putz has said that he doesn't get the same adrenaline rush that he gets from closing; therefore, he's not as effective.

Lidge has said something similar regarding times when he's not in closing situations.

also - was doing some reading about Questec and it's influence on umps; during ST, Moyer was quoted as saying that he preferred no monitoring system to preserve the human element of umpiring. i wonder if he's been less able to 'work the umps'; something Maddux would do ridiculously well by slowly expanding the strike zone over the course of a start.

Does anyone else feel like Moyer has been getting squeezed by the Umpires this year and that is part of the problem? He threw some quality pithces last night that he did not get calls on. He was then forced to bring the ball up and into the middle of the plate.

Then for the Reds, Harang looked like he got all the corners and then some, especailly on Werth's at bats.

"Amaro, however, won't use any logic or reasoning we'll think up, because it's all about the dollar signs for him- he signed Moyer to a 2-year deal and he's not going to be made to look foolish (or throw up his hands and just throw the money away) this quickly. Moyer will get many more starts, no matter how painful they are to watch."

Not sure I agree with that line of thinking, anymore. With the Amaro Jr. Administration, there's no evidence to back it up.

breaking news: White Sox have dealt for Jake Peavy, pending Peavy's approval...

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