Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Peanut gallery projection: Condrey and Coste | Main | Injury would open things up in rotation race »

Monday, March 16, 2009

Comments

Wow that's the worst thing I could imagine.

IN his right elbow, right?

On the bright side, it's a more interesting header than Coste/Condrey. I got a sense many of you were confused by that bizarre post.

im not worried, probly nothing... but it probly wouldnt hurt to swap some utley blood into his system for maximum healing powers.

This is bad. SI.com's Verducci had an article predicting this.

I simply assumed that alcohol was involved in the previous post.

So where does this new figure in our worst case scenarios for the season?

I'm not TOO worried. Gotta be cautious with the stud.

Season = over.

That is great news, especially since I just got done reading an article about how his velocity is down but no one in the front office was worried about it.
This is a great way to start off the week.

Santana and Hamels look to be in the same situation. Soreness and being checked out, but nothing serious enough to deem MRIs.

If I'm the Phils, just take the MRI anyway! They should just buy him a personal MRI machine and make sure he takes one every night he goes to sleep and overanalyze the hell out of it every morning.

As for people predicting this - Hamels fit the criteria of someone who overpitched last year, they used the gage of total pitches thrown and IP compared to the marks of the previous season. However, many noted that Hamels' low breakingball percentages keep him out of the high risk category.

Well, this ends the debate on whether Happ or Park will be in the rotation.

It looks like we may end up with both.

:(

Suddenly starting Carrasco's arbitration clock isn't a concern.

May I add again- F**k!!!

The 1 indispensible man on this team, as in the guy who started 36% of our playoff games, and 45% of the playoff victories.

The identity of the last 3-4 guys on our roster pales in significance to the health of one scrawny left arm.

I hope this ends up being like the Johan scare, which ended up being nothing serious at all.

I am not looking forward to going to Opening Day and watch the Braves beat Myers (ala 2007).

It's not a big deal at all. There's already reports that he is taking Pitchers fielding practice this morning. If he's on the DL to start the season he misses 2-3 starts. PArk and Happ have looked fine this Spring and im sure they can hold down the month of April for us.

Yeah, let's not freak out just yet. It could be bad, or it really could be just precautionary. We don't know yet.

didn't Myers pitch opening day last year? That turned out pretty well for us

To play the optimist here, thanks to Happ and Park really pitching well, a Hamels-less rotation is survivable. I would assume to rotation would be:
1. Myers
2. Moyer
3. Blanton
4. Park
5. Happ

With Carrasco as the next man up, it is a viable, albeit non-intimidating rotation, if the offense is producing at a 2007 rate. A scarier side effect though would be on the bullpen. You would now be looking and Joe Borkowski and Gary Majewski being your last two guys in the pen.

I would certainly shut down Hamels for a few starts in April if it really is that much of a concern. We're probably going to have a losing April anyway. And to think, our best player every April was Pat Burrell.

One thing that I will say is that since becoming GM, Ruben seems to be a lot more straightforward with the fans/public. Therefore, I would be willing to to be a little more inclined than usual, based on what he said, to think that we need to hold judgement on the severity of the injury until after Cole's exam.

Until we know more about the Hamels situation, would anyone support the idea of a trade with the Yankees that would involve Kei Igawa and Jenkins with cash changing hands that would keep the same money owed by each team?

If Hamels ends up missing a significant period of time, then it really would mean: Season = Over.

There was an MRI done on Hamels before he signed his extension. So if there is any damage that an MRI would reveal, it would be something that happened this spring... not necessarily anything that would have occured in the past.

From the Zo Zone:

Update (11 a.m.): Hamels just met with reporters. Here is some of what he had to say:

"I was able to throw yesterday. It's just been kind of that mild discomfort that I don't want to deal with during the season. So if he can lessen the inflammation and the discomfort, I'll be able to throw and be productive."

"When I'm in games I feel fine. It's coming out of the games, having it stiffen up. Normally, when I'm done I'm able to do stuff. It was still kind of lingering. Maybe it will kind of go away over time. It never got worse, but it never completely went away."

Hamels said he has this tightness every spring, and for that reason he is no worried. He also said he is not worried becuase he feels absolutely no pain while he pitches or at any other time for that matter. The elbow just tightens up on him.

Hamels said he think he will be able to start Opening Day, but he won't push it, either.

"Twenty days until Opening Day," Hamels said. "My body and shoulder is pretty much ready. It's just trying to get that mild discomfort out."

Can we at least keep him off the DL and use him as a late inning pinch hitter?

In the last thread, Andy wrote:

"On Condrey, I agree with b-a-p. If there can be such a thing as an "elite seventh reliever" (and I admit that is the kind of phrase that puts the moron in oxymoron), then Condrey was that last year."

I re-posted it here because it's the early front-runner for Funniest Post of the Year.

Park, Happ, Kendrick, Carrasco.

That's why we've all said all along that it's important to have these arms. We'd be crazy to deal any of them.

Hamels is a prime candidate to miss time this year because of the Verducci effect (large increase in innings from previous year).

If he misses a relatively short period of time, this team is good enough to make up for it. If he misses a significant period of time, that's trouble. If, god forbid, he's out for the season (and I'm not saying that's a high possibility), then we're pretty screwed.

You know what I can't stand? The complaining about Amaro and the Phillies not being "straightforward" with the media and fans. First off, no team in sports is straightforward, because there's just no need to be, and a lot of reasons to actually not be. Secondly, the FO's job is not to give you every piece of information. It's to put a winning team on the field. Those two things have no positive correlation whatsoever, so who cares?

Seriously, people use this line of reasoning against both the Phillies and the Andy Reid Eagles, and it just makes no sense. There are plenty of legit criticisms of both front offices, but not giving you the fan every piece of information about team is not one of them. Deal with it.

At least we still have Kendr...nevermind

he was long tossing this morning. can't be that bad

I'm not getting worked up over this. Probably is just sore and thats it.

Kei Igawa = Season Over
He can not pitch above AAA. If he could he wouldn't be ranked 9th in the Yankees rotation, behind Ian Kennedy who was just optioned back to the minors.

Carson, thanks for the update.

Well, after my initial overreaction on the last thread, and now that I've had time to contemplate, I think the Phils will be OK.......................even if Hamels misses a couple of starts.

They have the depth at the SP position as BMac pointed out above. So if Hamels is only shut down for a short period of time as they did in 2007, I'm not too worried.

In 2007 they were running JD Durbin (10 GS) out there , along with the Doughnut Boy (12 GS) and Adam Eaton (30 GS).

That's almost 1/3 of the starts, 52, to three guys who combined for a 5.65 ERA that season.

I'll trust Park, Happ & Company to hold down the fort if necessary.

And, I'll give kudos to Amaro and his team (and you know I HATE complimenting the FO) for bringing in Park to build depth, because it sure looks like it's going to be useful and needed.

JA Happ, Carlos Carrasco and Chan Ho Park are ALL better than Igawa.

And, quite frankly, Kyle Kendrick might be even when he struggles.

Adam Eaton = Kei Igawa
Both cost way more then they are worth, and are no better then a AAA pitcher.

I'm not seriously worried about this yet but I would think they'd at least take an MRI for the sake of making sure it isn't anything serious.

Not sure if anybody caught the game on tv yesterday, but when Harry and Wheels were interviewing ChoPark after his day was over, Hamels interrupted him as kind of joke and he didn't look all that upset.

I will wait until the carving knife comes out before I get to worked up about Cole's elbow and thus the Phils chances this season.

By the way, Park looks like he is going to make it tough with the decision to go with Happ (who I think deserves the shot after his starts last year) at the 5th spot.

He (Park) seems to be really comfortable working out there. I am still trying to figure out how many pitches he has in his repotoire and luckily he didn't have to pay for that hanger to Pujols...isn't it said that it takes the hitters longer to catch up to the pitching?

Park did mention in his interview with H & W that he wouldn't be throwing that same pitch to Pujols in August, so its safe to assume he doesn't think his poop smells like roses.

As my 88 year-old grandfather said when asked by a physician about his sexual activity: "Don't worry about it."

Well we should be worried about Hamels because spring training discomfort always leads to problems in regular season, right? Just as good spring training performances by Park and Happ guarantee good performances during the season. That's the way it works, right?

Hamels hurt? That's karma philly. you suck.

I happen to think Clay Condrey is a dman fine mopup reliever and the kind of guy I root for.

That said, here's something no one on BL would ever post:

Condrey vs. LH (2008): .320 BA, .370 OB, .448 SLG, .818 OPS

Condrey vs. LH (career): .313, .378, .464, .841.

@clout: So you are saying Condrey should be a situational righty? Interesting...

As far as my exuberance for Park's display yesterday, St. Louis did have there full complement of players (Troy Glaus excluded), so the fact that he was successful, should lend some credence to how we should assume he will operate during the season...

But I am in agreement that everything that happens in the spring should be taken with a grain of salt.

I know I am contradicting myself here, but it's what I'm good at.

Let 100 KK posts bloom.

ahhh see whta happens when you foolies fans talk smack about johan!! karma sucks huh? and it is shocking to see this punk hurt.. i mean hes only been injured in 86% of his professional playing years... and the verducci effect is in more line with a scrawny little guy like cole... enjoy d bags enjoy

Hamels Will be starting opening day, his sorenees is just lasting longer cuz he pitched more last year, i wonder why he had to ptich more last season??? lol

I have to say it's kind of ironic how this is happening only a couple weeks after the Mets had to be concerned with Santana's arms, for the same exact type of injury. So let's ask ourselves a question. Why would some of you Phillies fans press your luck by mocking the Mets with Santana a couple weeks ago? I remember, one of you guy's came over to Metsblog a couple weeks ago, when Hamels was listed as ''taking it slow.'' No one had an idea he had an arm problem at the same. Some of you were getting on Santana though. One Mets fan replied by saying ''Don't get too giggly over there, Hamels has had a history of elbow problems.'' Well, I didn't think it'd only take 2 weeks for the irony to kick in, but here it is. It must be serious if they sent him back to Philadelphia, and the Mets were able to leave Johan in Florida. Johan doesn't have a history of this. Cole does. Don't you guy's have enough on your plate with Utley's hip and Lidge's arm too? I guess it just doesn't end there. Remember, 4 of the last 7 NL World Series since '88, in their following season, were sub-.500 the following season. Most notably and recently, a big reason for the '07 Cardinals not even being competitive was because of the loss of Chris Carpenter. So a 29 blown save, injured Maine and Church, terrible Pedro, sh*tty Castillo only ended up 3 games behind you guy's, beat you in 11 of 18 and commanded large leads in 13 of them?

Doesn't something sound wrong there. It's kind of sad how that was so close to you, and actually better in head-to-head. But now that K-Rod and Putz anchor their pen, Church and Castillo are both healthy and having strong Springs, they've flushed out Heilman, Schoenweis, Ayala, Wagner and Sanchez, and don't have to worry about ''Met-Killing Pat Burrell'', you'd think that might be enough for you to handle, right? First, you pay nearly double for a 4 1/2 year older lefty who'll logjam your line-up, that'll be exposed to Santana, and Perez who had an 0.35 ERA in 26 IP against you last season. Next, you lose Romero until June, for steroids. Although he's progressing, Utley has hip surgery, unwisely nearly a month of the season ended. Than you probably lose Feliz for Opening Day. It should have ended there, right? Nope. Than Lidge's arm makes you hold your breath, and still does. But now Cole? Uh oh... He's really the one guy you couldn't replace. With Utley, the rest of the line-up is still great. But without Hamels, Myers anchors a staff against Santana (yikes)... I can't wait to here your p*ssy excuses about Cole being injured being the reason for why you didn't win the NL East or even make the postseason later this year...

Also, in regard to Clay Condrey, you make a valid point. He's definitely has never been their ''best reliever'', but he was important last season. Similarly though, Durbin was rocked towards the end of last season. Those are two of their key middle men. We all know how Eyre started out the year with the Cubs last season. Those are three big question marks right there. Outside of Lidge, who has arm problems, the only suspension and injury free quality reliever you guy's have right now is Ryan Madson. One thing about bullpens is that they're hit or miss. When one guy's doing good, as long as there's decent talent, everyone could. Bullpens, more than any other part of the roster in baseball, are known for changing more from year-to-year, so your bullpen has it's work cut out for them. The line-up doesn't seem like it can pick them up all the time, with their low .BA and crappy RISP converting abilities. The one thing you guy's have to worry about more than anything else though is the fear of a firesale, like in '06, if you're not in a commanding first place lead, because your ownership is known for being pretty cheap. Their payroll is actually almost what is of the Mets, which I'm sure doesn't please them in tough economic times.

With K-Rod's mental makeup, I look forward to watching him melt under the pressure of playing in New York. I look forward to seeing his goofy mug on the back page of those sh*tty tabloid rags that NY calls "newspapers" with clever little puns that mock his spiral out of control.

I look forward to watching the arguments between Mets fans as to whether Putz should be given the role of closer, and I look forward to your wet-behind-the-ears manager giving him the job when it's too late.

I look forward to Santana winning 12 games, whereas his same performance would have won him at least 18 if he played for almost any other NL club.

I look forward to Reyes continuing to not live up to his ridiculous hype.

I look forward to New York's aging bats to wither away with time as David Wright tries to carry the team on his shoulders.

Finally, I look forward to all the whining crybaby Napoleon complex Mets fans pissing and moaning as they finish third behind the Phils and the Braves while your own media moves on to ignore the cheap replacement of the Dodgers and their choking trifecta and focuses their attention on the real New York ballclub.

...and I look forward to all of your excuses as to why you somehow deserve to be World Champions despite the fact that you're not good enough to even reach the playoffs.

:)

Why would K-Rod ''melt down'' under the pressure? This guy has been in the spotlight before. Let me ask you this. How many rings does K-Rod have? One, right? He was real good in that one in '02 too, wasn't he? Just like Lidge was last season? Has that Albert Pujols home run ball mysteriously faded in Lidge's history?
K-Rod wants the pressure. He was offered the same 3 year/37 million deal from St. Louis, but chose New York instead. He's going to dominate. He's also not as injury prone as your closer who has as bad of arm problems as Hamels every spring. He's also still young.

The only thing in your message I agree with is that the New York Post and Daily News are rags. If you think the Philadelphia Inquirer or Courier Post is designed for the intellectual though, you're in your own world lol
The fact you just said that there should be an argument if Putz should be the closer means you respect that they have a damn good set up man. If Santana won 16 games, but was in position to win 22, with a terrible bullpen and Luis Ayala as closer for the last month and a half of the season, why on earth would he win 12 games? lol I was willing to listen to the rest of your message, but to say Santana would only win 12 games, makes no sense, unless it's because of an injury. You didn't mention that though. Last year was Johan's first year as a Met. He's in the prime of his career. He's only going to get better. He'll win 18 games at minimum next season. At least statistically, Reyes has lived up to much of his hype. He's only one player though. He was much better last season than he was the previous year. Similarly, Wright was great in '07 down the stretch, but fell off. Have them both on at the same time with a red-hot Carlos Delgado and it'll be hard beating this team. I really feel bad for you Phillies fans though, when it comes to your shortstop. The least you could expect out of your shortstop is respect. Or at least not disrespect. He called you front-runners. He never directly apologized for it either, making excuses, so you can say he got away with it. Either you fools willingly accept yourselves as front-runners, or you allow yourselves to be verbally abused by an underachieving SOB. The only thing we was good for in the postseason was his glove. Eric Brunlett could done a better job at the plate than he did. If he puts up the same numbers as he did last season, don't be surprised if they're not willing to give him an extension when his contract expires, as he'll be an old dud. They'll turn it over to Jason Donald. New York Mets aging bats? There's only two ''aging'' bats in the line-up. Carlos Delgado and Luis Castillo. Everyone else is either young or in their prime. The Phillies just did sign a turning-37 year old left fielder, didn't they? Feliz is not exactly young either. So that excuse isn't even valid.

You actually believe the Phillies will finish in 1st place? And the Braves in second? Really. Apparently you don't even have any baseball sense if you think the Braves have more potential than the Marlins. You're complaining about our complex? And what exactly is your park? Oh, the creativity amazes me (sarcasm). Every new stadium looks the same nowadays. The only difference is yours is designed to bloat pitcher's ERA's. This is 2009. In seven months, the only people this title will matter to is you. It won't be active in the rest of baseball. You'll be telling yourselves the same thing for years and years, just like you do with the Eagles, until it gets too old. Predictably, probably ten years or so. You'll get there though, don't worry. There hasn't even been an NL team who's won two pennants straight sign '95-96, and if you think a team with Brett Myers as their 2 starter is in the same class as a dominant Braves team that was in 5 WS in one decade, even with one year with no WS, you're just crazy. The Phillies were one time wonders. Reading that boils you, doesn't it? Listen, you had your moment, but now it's over. This really doesn't have anything to do with the Mets either. You losers will fade naturally on your own. 4 of the previous 7 NL Worlds ended up sub-.500, 8 teams have been in the WS in 4 years and no team in a few years has even made the postseason or made it passed the NLDS consecutive seasons. That should speak for itself. But in your eyes, the Phillies will defy all that, because you're their fan? Right... That's why you're a fan lol You teach yourself how to give yourself false hope... For 28 years, you losers have had to mutter under your breath ever Spring Training and the one year you finally don't have to, you're too overwhelmed to know it'll all end right before your eyes. You got about three weeks to stay on your ''high horse'', but when those three weeks are up, you'll turn into nobodies, once again. Hunger has a lot to do with it. It doesn't look like the Philthies have it anymore...

I can't wait to hear you say in October ''At least we were '08 World Champs.''... And every October after that. It'll sink in... Just give it some time.

How exactly do you expect the Phillies to afford Ryan Howard or Cole Hamels anyway? They won't even try with Howard, because they're already cutting into their future budgets, and Hamels you know will end up a Yankee or Red Sox because they'll get outbid.

Uh oh. Hamels is one of the top pitchers in the league.

K-Rod and his ''mug'' did a good job handling that pressure tonight in the WBC, didn't he? He went more than an inning too. Many people have said this is more pressure than the postseason in baseball. In New York, they'll ridicule you in papers if you do something wrong. When it comes to representing their countrymen though, some people say it's ''pitching for your life.''

I really don't think that pitching in Anaheim or the joke that is the World Baseball Classic compares even slightly to pitching an entire season with the New York media breathing down your neck.

I suppose time will tell. I remember not long ago that the signing of Billy Wagner sealed the deal for a championship. I also remember how signing Johan Santana made the Mets the "team to beat" in 2008.

It seems that with each year comes a top dollar signing, a springtime of bragging and an autumn of the Mets and their fans once again sitting at home making excuses.

"At least we were '08 World Champs"


It sure beats saying "At least we were '86 World Champs".

Too bad the cocaine fun bunch couldn't keep it going a few more years.

Think about this though. The Phillies have existed 79 more years than the Mets and have the same amount of World Series titles.
That's more than the average life span of an American.

So many of you braindead Phillies fans think ''history repeating itself'' would actually be a good thing. That should be the last thing you want. Look back at the '80 Phillies. They were good for a few more years, but anything special? Deja Vu will be bitter sweet.

Also, Mac, at least the Mets didn't have a steroid juicer win game 5 of the World Series. Arizona Mortgage Refinance (interesting name lol), I bet if K-Rod had blown the save to last night's game you'd be talking of it differently. You'd probably be saying it's evidence that he'd melt down. If he were American, I'd probably agree. The WBC doesn't mean much for us. Americans see it more as a tournament that was created during the middle of a random night. But for Venezuelans, Japanese, among other country's it matters. They get pretty intense. This is extreme pressure. If he can handle this, he can handle New York. If he doesn't pitch well in New York, it's the papers. If he doesn't pitch well in the WBC, it's everyone breathing down his neck.

I don't who it was who said Billy Wagner sealed the deal for a championship, but there's stark differences between him and K-Rod. K-Rod was seven years younger when signed. He also doesn't have the injury problems. Wagner didn't exactly have the most positive personality either. Wagner also didn't have who K-Rod will as a set-up man. Going into '06, Mets fans didn't know that they were going to be that good that year. They should have beat the Cardinals in game seven, and if they did, they probably would have won the WS. But it didn't happen. If that was the position Wagner helped put the Mets in though, imagine what K-Rod and Putz can do. In between '07 & '08, the only change the Mets really made was Santana, which although was a big one, wasn't enough. They didn't get any younger, they kept the same deadhead manager or make any bullpen chances to an already below average bullpen, outside of trading Guillermo Mota. The Mets don't have Alou, Pedro, Wagner or Easley anymore, and have now gotten much younger, notably with Murphy in LF. They've flushed out the crap in their toilet, in the bullpen, Schoenweis, Heilman, Ayala, Sanchez... They were ranked up their in the top in hitting and starting pitching last season, so they addressed the one part of their team that needed restructuring.

Don't give me the ''dollar sign'' excuse either. Look at the Phillies payroll. It's only about 8 million less than the Mets. They had a high signing in Ibanez this off-season, and gave Lidge virtually the same contract as K-Rod during the season. Santana was also acquired via trade, like Lidge. Making excuses? And what have you guy's done every year besides last season? Really. Some of you guy's are completely irrational. You act as if one year is a decade. You're more concerned about the Mets faltering than your own success. You've been ''successful'' for one season. You actually act like you had a degree of success in '07. The only reason why you were there was because of the ''collapse.'' That team couldn't have been less prepared for the postseason, if the Rockies didn't prove that. If one year is enough to make you believe the Phillies are ''great'' forever, than you'll have another thing coming. This team has an ugly history, and you're the ones rooting for ''history to repeat itself.''

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG