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Tuesday, March 24, 2009


How would you like to be Travis Snider and have to hit behind Sal Fasano?

Damn... Utley just hit one to the wall where the outfielder made a leaping catch. Would have at least scored Rollins for first or been a two run shot. Wind is blowing in, stopped the ball from going out.

J-Roll walked and Howard singled, but they were both left on when Werth flew out.

Thanks for the color commentary CJ. The Jays announcers on said it was a nice catch, but didn't say it was deep or knocked down by the wind.

1-2-3 inning for Park. He struck out the first two looking and the GOLD GLOVER Pedro Feliz made a gold-glove-caliber play behind third making a strong throw to first. I think the opposing lineup is effectively intimidated. It's nice for Pedro to get that out of the way in the first.

A great play by Feliz to end a 1-2-3 inning. Plus, his presence at third base intimidated the first 2 batters into striking out.

You know you can listen to the Phillies announcers with MLB.TV?

Feliz left his moon shoes at home and couldn't make a leaping grab...Rolen booed too

Didn't realize there were two streams. Thanks.

**** I think the opposing lineup is effectively intimidated. It's nice for Pedro to get that out of the way in the first.****


You might want to go back to the Jays feed, Wheels is on the air.

Holy cow, almost the entire Blue Jays lineup is batting .300+ this spring. 6 out of 9 are.

Park keeping up the strikeouts... 4 through 2 innings. Can he keep this up as a starter?

Good news... Cole is pitching in a minor league game today.

Problem is, when he isn't striking people out, he is pitching like crap.

Park has 6 K's and 1 walk through three innings (plus three doubles). Phils trail 3-0.

BAP, is that like "He only catches touchdowns"?

Rolen booed . . . I am sure that Drew will get his share if he is in the lineup when the Sox visit CBP. I can only imagine how loud the boos will be if Eaton is one of the starters when the O's visit CBP this summer.

Sadly though I see a sizable minority of Phils' fans booing this team if they get out to their annual slow start the 1st week of the season and go 2-4 or something like that.

Frankly I could care less really about the high K totals with Park. That will diminish as he faces just regular MLB hitters once the season begins and his velocity drops back down a bit once he is stretched out as a starter.

I am much more interested to see if his impressive control (including really low BB numbers) can hold up. If that does, then he could be a legit no. 5 starter. I tend to think though that his BB/9 is going to go back north of 3 over the course of several starts during the regular season.

There are atleast 15 reasons I want Eaton to pitch against at CBP against the Phillies this summer. Its going to be amazing to the give this guy a standing O when he gives up three homers in a row.

I don't like booing. I don't boo the Phils, and I hardly even boo the opposition, but I'd boo the hell outta Eaton if he were in town.

I've booed Rolen in the past too, can't stand the whiny bawl-baby pissy-pants.

"BAP, is that like "He only catches touchdowns"?"

I think it's the opposite. It's like, "He only catches 40-yard passes, but he fumbles at the end of every run."

How fitting that the first time the Phillies go with their everyday lineup, they strand 7 men on base in the first 4 innings. Their clutch hitting is in mid-season form.

Kevin Millar would have been a nice RH bench bat. He even agreed to a minor league contract in February. Too bad he's not versatile enough for the Phils. Plus, maybe he wanted to stay in the AL for the chance to DH.

Remind me again, Carson -- what was Rolen whining about?

I never boo Rolen. He wanted the Phils to make a commitment to winning ... and so did I.

I was hoping someone would have done an "in depth" comparison of each projected player on the 25 man roster, using the very complex "b00b <>" system to compare the Phils and Mets. Sadly, it appears as if the opportunity has passed...

Will this help?

b00b << lobotomized chimpanzee

Rolen's always been a cry baby. Everywhere he's ever been. He could have been great... but he couldn't handle it.

Jayson Werth just hit a monsterous bomb of a home run, well over the wall. No one else has been able to get the ball through the wind. Anyone still worried about Werth's start to the spring?

David Murphy reports on Cole Hamels: 48 pitches, 35 for strikes.

Werth hits a Stairs-esk homer.

CJ: Rolen is one of the most annoying players in baseball. But I'm not sure what you mean by "he could have been great." You mean HOF? In his 13-year career he was the best defensive thirdbaseman in baseball and posted a career OPS+ of 125.

clout: Rolen was very good when healthy. No one will ever confuse him with being great.

3rd base coach still needs work... he sent Feliz from 2nd on a sharp hit single. Feliz was out by a mile.

Why can't the Phillies get a 3rd base coach who actually knows what he is doing?

Bowa was underrated as a 3rd base coach. Too bad the Phils had to go and screw it up by making him a manager.

CJ: I guess that's what I'm getting at: What is your definition of "great"? HOF? 150 OPS+?

I'd be more concerned by the four stolen bases the phils have given up so far this game than anything else. I'm obviously unable to watch the game being at work and in Chicago, but to those who may be, is this on chooch or the park/mosebach?

Rolen did whine about things in Philly including about his contract, the team's commitment to winning, the fans, etc. Doesn't mean he wasn't a very hard worker but he did voice his complaints when he felt he needed to. Plus, he also never turned out to be the vocal leader that this team wanted so desperately to be.

Granted Bowa were ubercritical of Rolen but Rolen's issues in STL including his nasty spats with LaRussa makes me wonder if Bowa's criticism of Rolen lack of leadership/stubborness didn't at least hold some water.

Didn't seem like pitchers were really holding people on.

Yes! Chase gets his spring HR. Should have had one in the first.

Utley with a 2 run bomb off of BJ Ryan. Nice to hear that :)

Chase F Utley laughs at the wind and strokes a HR.

clout: So you believe Scott Rolen has been a great player?



Rolen was great in 2004, but there's a reason that was his only Top-5 MVP season. The rest of his career, he's merely been very good. Just 5 All-Star game appearances in his 12 full seasons? Merely good. Nothing more. It's not hard to demonstrate that Scott Rolen has not had a great career.

Glad this is only ST, but this style of being behind is getting old.

Rolen is one of those guys who will largely go down as one of those "very good" players of his ERA but was plagued by injuries throughout/largely done as an effective player by 35 or 36.

One of the odd things is that Rolen was never beloved by the fans it seemed either in St. Louis like Edmonds or Pujols even though they won a World Series with him there and Rolen went to 4 AS games during his 5 1/2 years there.

Funny thing is that if you look back at what Rolen did in a Cards' uniform he was really good his first full 2 years but since then was kind of average offensive player who has missed his share of time due to injuries.

Lake Fred: But the Phillies LOVE playing from behind...RP's are where they make their bones.

Rolen was hard to like. He was a prickly pear who never did appearances and didn't even show up for Scott Rolen day. But he was the 2nd best 3rd baseman we ever had and I wish we could have had him longer--or the FO would have surrounded him with better talent--or if he could have shut his mouth for 5 minutes. I thought maybe the Phils embellished his act a bit, but then when he goes to StL, or baseball heaven as it's better known, and the same thing happens...well, you have to look at the common denominator.

hh - "Phillies LOVE playing from behind"


Food for thought:

- Do you think Rolen would still be in a Phils' uniform if they had given him the 8 yr/$90M deal he wanted in 2002?

Were the Phils actually better off dealing him (even though they largely got .50 on the dollar) since Rolen's offensive production has really fallen the past few years and he had his numerous injury problems?

What are the odds Marson & Paulino are both on the Phillies 40 man roster come opening day?

Paulino's invisible act this Spring Training has probably punched his or Marson's ticket out of town.

Unless one of them starts at Reading this year but I thought Marson was already slotted for Allentown.

Could be the busiest two weeks for Junior upcoming since he received the new business cards.

Agree that Amaro is likely rooting another to find the 24th or 25th man on this roster who will probably become clear by this time next week although it is pretty evident at this point that Paulino, Giles, and Stairs aren't going to be on the Opening Day roster.

Why is it so hard for some to understand that having a OPS+ of over 120 doesn't mean you are not a douchebag.

Hooray for Rolen for having a OPS+ over 120, but he is a douchebag and is rotting away in Canada because of it.

thephaithful -- very well said.

He went to "baseball heaven" and was still a whiny douche.

Am I reading the boxscore correctly? Did the Jays steal 4 bases today, one being home? Can anyone listening shed some light on this? CJ?

Thanks in advance.

Schilling one day and Rolen the next- Talented malcontent Alumni week!

Great players / egotistical headcases both

Alby- you asked me why Rolen is whiny. Well, it seems where ever he goes he doesn't see eye-to-eye with his managers and publicly cries about it (Bowa- Philly, LaRussa- St. Louis), he complains about fans, contracts, organizations not being invested in winning, artificial turf...the dude bitches about everything!

R. Billingsly: The Phils pitchers didn't seem to expend any energy at all on holding runners.

The first time I remember Rolen whining was after Dallas Green called him out. He said something to the effect that our the middle of our lineup is killing us. At the time Rolen was mired in a pretty bad slump. Rolen didn't like that one bit but Green was right on the money. Rolen was really stinking it up at that point. Rolen is arguably one of the top 5 defensive thirdbasemen of the last 40 or so years and maybe ever. When healthy he could be counted on for 25 or 30 homeruns a year. And he was one of the very best baserunners I ever saw. A fact that I think a lot of people don't realize. In short he could have been a HOF candidate if injuries hadn't become such a problem. Because of the injury factor I think his will always be one of those "what if" kind of careers. I also think HH was dead on about his problems in baseball heaven. Scotty needs to look in the mirror. In my book he is a crybaby like Carson says.

The Cairo-Ozuna DP combo is working to give this game back to the Jays.

CJ: was the steal of home a legit steal of home or was it a double steal, or a blocked ball in the dirt, etc.? That's the one that caught my attention.

"Will this help?

b00b << lobotomized chimpanzee"

Doohickey, THAT was f*****' funny!


Looks like Majewski got out of a jam in the 9th partly caused by a Cairo throwing error.

Hmmmmm, can Cairo still pick it and toss it, or is he dead weight in the field?

That is why I don't understand why there is interest in potentially having Cairo make the team. At least Bruntlett is a viable option at SS. Cairo isn't and he is clearly slower than Bruntlett at this point too.

R.B it was a double steal. The Wells took off from 3rd after Ruiz threw to second & Wells beat the throw back home.

"The Wells"

Is that his new nickname? I like it.

Ay chihuahua...when Brutlett is the high watermark for comparison...well, I'd say Amaro hasn't done enough by way of RH off of the bench.

I guess the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

CJ: Tough grader. 5 All-Star game appearances="merely good."

Thanks, kevmac. I knew it had to be something like that.


clout: Are you saying Scott Rolen was a great player? One top-5 MVP vote in his entire career?

Look at his comparables (Tim Salmon!). Apart from 2004, he pretty much never found himself in the top 10 of any offensive category. The guy has a great glove, that's undeniable... but he's far from a great player.

Addendum: Rolen had some top 10 rankings in a few categories in 1998 as well. Other than that, they were few and far between. He just wasn't an offensive force. Nice career... great glove... not a great player. I'd love to hear the case on the other side.

I think you can say Rolen had a great career...not necessarily that he was a great player.

clout, I would classify Rolen as "very good".

"Great" players are better than Scott Rolen.

What position players do I think qualify as "great"?

Ken Griffey, Jr., Mike Schmidt, Albert Pujols, Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, and Babe Ruth among others.

Rolen is not in their league.

To classify Rolen as "great" is to diminish the term.

Rolen was a very good ballplayer. Great defense and solid offensive numbers. Never was a big fan of his personality, but he's the type of 3b I want the Phils to have now.

BB: Well said. Plug a young Scott Rolen into this team and you would really have something. Assuming nobody says anything to hurt his feelings.

Was Chuck Knoblauch a great player with his 4 All-Star games? Does the clout greatness meter start at 5 AS appearances?

Scott Cooper was a back-to-back All Star 3rd baseman in 1994 and 1995. He must have been on the cusp of greatness.

Although he had to compete with FIVE time all star third baseman Travis Fryman! Another GREAT player.

So, yes, I suppose I'm a tough grader when it comes to greatness.

Best thing about today - Park struggled a bit. Hopefully he does a bit more in his last 2 starts so that Happ wins the 5th starter spot.

Troubling spot? - Ibanez now has 60 ABs in spring training and doesn't have a HR yet. If he has another 25-30 ABs this spring and doesn't HR, is anybody concerned about this in the least?

I think the Rolen "good/great" conversation should be put into a time capsule and sent into space as an example of the analysis on BL. Someday, aliens will find the capsule and agree that Griffey/Schmidt/Pujols/Aaron/Ruth > Rolen, but maybe Rolen was "great" for several years and "good" for a few, as well.

CJ, way to stick to your guns. clout, using appearances in a popularity and 'manager taking care of his boys' contest as a measure of greatness is not the best way to go about it.

Ryan Howard has 3 top 5 MVP finishes, has led the league in HR and RBI since being called up, yet has not one AS appearnce to his name. I could give you other examples as well.

I would suggest using other criteria.

Guys, as well know from the Pedro Feliz debate, defense at 3rd base is largely irrelevant. So therefore Rolen can really only be judged on his offensive numbers.


Now that WBC is over and all of the starters are in the lineup/playing deeper into games, I am actually somewhat interested to see how the Phils look over the next 10 days or so.

For all of you who have been licking their chops at the thought of Livan Hernandez as the Mets 5th starter, I offer the following:

Against the Phillies:

24 GS, W/L 10-8, 171.3 IP, 3.36 ERA, 1.275 WHIP, 2.42 K/BB.

If that's what the Mets get out of their 5th starter against the Phils this year it will be a dogfight.

I wouldn't even go so far as to call Rolen "very good".

Though I disagree with the inclusion of the popularity contest that is an All Star Game appearance into the discussion, Chuck Knoblauch was "very good". Mike Schmidt was "great." Scott Rolen was above best.

"If he has another 25-30 ABs this spring and doesn't HR, is anybody concerned about this in the least?"

Ummmm, hell yeah. Considering that his role is to fill the void of a 25-30 HR/90 RBI guy. I'll be reasonably concerned....

As b00b would properly state:


Livan's last six starts vs the Phillies (covering 2005-2006):

6 GS, 2-3, 41 IP, 5.27 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, 1.42 K/BB, 1.75 HR/9 IP

AWH: Tim Redding has largely owned the Phillies, too--doesn't mean that he's a great pitcher.

I look at Hernandez the way I look at Park--he can give the Mets and Phils a few good starts--but then at some point, I see a definite...what's that saying BL'ers like to use?...regression to the mean. Can miracles happen? Sure, but they aren't likely.

What position players do I think qualify as "great"?

Ken Griffey, Jr., Mike Schmidt, Albert Pujols, Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, and Babe Ruth among others.

one of these is not like the others. Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time, Mays is the greatest center fielder of all time, Pujols has the 5th highest OPS in the history of baseball, Aaron hit 755 home runs, and Ruth is the greatest player of all time period. Ken Griffey...?

Come on, ae, now this is nitpicking.

"Although he had to compete with FIVE time all star third baseman Travis Fryman!"

Growing up I used to spend summers with relatives in a suburb of Detroit. I thought Travis Fryman was the bomb.

ae, nice point on Griffey. He's had a stellar career, however I'd argue that his "greatness" is largely based on the potential that everyone still remembers (somewhat like Rolen in that regard). There's something to be said about "hype" dictating one's level of accomplishments.

I think that you could also argue that both Griffey and Rolen are among the more over rated players of their times (although not quite Brien Taylor, in that regard). Numbers don't lie. Perception is a tricky thing to control.

Livan Hernandez was good back in the day with the Marlins, and that's when the majority of his starts against them occurred. He's pretty bad now-a-days. Sure he can probably throw a 15 inning complete game, but he'd give up 10 runs and about 25 hits in the process. If he was the Phils best option at 5th starter, I'd be calling for Amaro's head.

Griffey is not overrated. Griffey was the best player in the 90s. You forget how great he was for that entire decade I think. He was a spectacular defensive CF who also hit for power and a very good average. He even stole a few in his day.

In the 90s it was Bonds and Griffey...dont let his injury plagued career since he went to the NL fool you.

Griffey Jr. wasn't great? Wow. 600 homeruns? Wow.

Griffey is a great player.

10 GG, 7 SS, 5 top-5 MVP votes (1 win), 13 AS appearances, 5th all-time HR hitter, 18th career RBI total, 10th career XBH

Case closed.

Ken Griffey, Jr:

HRs, 611, #5 on the ALL TIME list

RBIs, 1772, #18 on the same list

SLG, .546, #29 on the same list

10 straight GG awards

OPS .919 despite playing his prime in a pitchers park

OPS+ 138

ae, please give me YOUR definition of "great".

Griffey suits mine just fine.

Feel free to disagree.

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EST. 2005

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