Part of

« Pitching and defense shine, but Rays silence Phils | Main | Fan connection better late than never for Burrell »

Friday, March 13, 2009


From the last thread"

"NEPP: Remember how heavyweight boxers used to look terrified when they entered the ring to face Mike Tyson in his prime? That's how batters feel when they come up to the plate and see Pedro Feliz standing at third base."

That actually made me laugh out loud...good one BAP.

Oh and that quote on location from the end of the last thread wasn't was BAP...good quote though.

I am just a beerleaguer so I suppose when his jawbone shrinks he will be ready to compete.

From last thread re: Feliz

nepp and b_a_p,

You gotta love Beerleaguer. Laughed out loud for the first time all day. I'm picturing Feliz in a menacing defensive crouch, edging forward; and Albert Pujols cringing and nervously shifting his feet and adjusting his stance.

Ask Moyer, Hamels, Happ who they want at third base when they throw the hook? Feliz Maadaplay.

Why is Pedro Feliz even on this team??? No team could ever win a World Series with a light hitting, excellent defensive 3B. So if the Phillies goal is to win a World Series, then they need to get rid of Feliz!!!

And then ask them who they want batting seventh with the game on the line.

I love how a blog sponsors Feliz's baseball-reference page and highlights his clutchitude and integeral part of winning the WFC. $15 well spent - or however much that costs.

Yeah, ask Charlie, the three other all-star infielders and the pitching staff who the want at third base and then take 5% of what they earn per diem and subtract that from ole Pedro's wages and you will get a touch of reality. Dobbs even understands that he wants a piece of the action.

Interesting stat on Moyer.

From his Age 33 Season (1996 - PRES, 13 seasons) he has posted the following line:

187-109, 4.05 ERA, .632 W/L %

How many others can say that?

The Phillies are going to have to bring Mayberry with them to Philly. Here's why:

They need a back-up CF. If Werth isn't 100% ready to go at the beginning of the year (and this looks increasingly likely), then they have no viable backup for CF (Jenkins, Stairs, Bruntlett, and Dobbs aren't playing there).

That leaves Mayberry, who the Phillies are also going to need for his RH power bat, in case Werth can't play every day.

Who does this bump out? Not Jenkins - he's making too much money to move.

Stairs will have to be traded or released - he isn't going to play in the field anymore, and they've got plenty of LH bats on the bench already.

This is beginning to feel like one of those years for Werth where he will be dinged up in one form or another the entire season. One really wonders what the hell he did all off-season. Groin injuries are another one of those "out of shape" type of deals...pushing too hard when you're flabby is the best way to get one.

If Werth can't play for good portions of the season, we're gonna get killed against LHP unless someone steps up. He was our one legit middle of the order RH bat.

Hasn't Bruntlett played some CF in ST? Anyone have any idea how he handled it?

I do hope Mayberry makes the team though. Brings a lot more to the table than Stairs etc...

This is the downside of finding players at the Value Village. You know, you go shopping there and find a dress shirt for $20 with a tag that says, "$75 if perfect." In Werth's case, the imperfection was an inability to stay healthy.

From what I've heard, Bruntlett has been brutal in CF during those games.

Nepp- NOt surprising.

Good Call T Mac. That is a good reason that Mayberry will break. Hope you are right.

Also hope Werth gets his crap together. I think he will though. He has been waiting for this opportunity for too long to blow it.

Where is Clout to scold everyone for overreacting? You guys know that Werth is in the lineup today right? Teams are extra careful in the spring, I imagine Werth could have played yesterday if it were the regular season. I understand the concern due to Werth's history, but I think he was just a little out of shape this year, and will probably be fine by the end of camp.

Maybe Mayberry if they trade Stairs but only if. The Ps will be better served with pitchers and Giles/Cairo as a fill for a few weeks untlil the weather warms.

Its a shame that the best thing for the team may be to part ways with Stairs.

I hope they at least keep him on the roster for a game or two before releasing him. Just so the place can go absolutely wild when he steps up to pinch hit. Can't imagine any fan that wouldn't want to be there for that at least once this season.

And as for LHP/RHP - Utley and Ibanez are more than capable of hitting LHP, while Rollins and Vic switch hit. I'm not saying its ideal, but I dont think they're dead in the water vs. lefties.


I will never forget the majestic flight into the artificial light from the might of the man from the north.

I can see trading Stairs before the start of the season, and then getting him back for the stretch run, when rosters expand. I believe this could make everyone happy - AL team not quite in contention gets cheap DH for most of season, Stairs gets 300 at-bats, Phillies get clutch LH pinch-hitter for playoff run.
What's not to like for all involved?

Stairs should write a book JW, culminating with his butt slap in the dugout after the big one in LA. His living space for years was in that 6X30 ft. space between earth and air that he willfully escaped by launching a ball into the night.

Thank god we have Jenkins.

Jonesman: Beerleaguer is the home office of the short attention span.

Declarations are made not just based on a single week, they're often made based upon a single game or single at bat. And that's just in Spring Training. The fact that 98% of all posters have declared Kendrick washed up and done based on 6 games last year and the first 2 weeks of ST is actually an amazing example of patient, thoughtful consideration by Beerleaguer standards.

The motto for Beerleaguer posters should be "Season=Over."

"love how a blog sponsors Feliz's baseball-reference page."

For some reason, this reminded me of the Mariners blogger who went out and sponsored Ryan Franklin's Baseball Reference page almost immediately after we had traded for him. He wrote, "I paid $15 to sponsor this page so I could tell you how happy I am that you won't be here next year. It was the best money I ever spent."

Anyone see this: An Open Letter from Pat Burrell ?

Sniff, sniff.

thephaithful: "Utley and Ibanez are more than capable of hitting LHP."

What are Ibanez's career numbers vs. LHP?

"Expected to have right field all to himself for the first time...."

By some, perhaps, but not by all. Even the FO that gave him the big contract is just "hoping" that he can hit righties (not to mention staying healthy).

T Mac: Mayberry is a corner outfielder. How many starts has he had in CF in the minors? Any?

jason: One minor suggestion for the blog.

Whenever I write posts with more than 1 paragraph, I always put a space between the paragraphs because I think the post is easier to read that way. Ever since you switched the formatting to allow 100 posts per page, I've noticed that, for some reason, those spaces between paragraphs don't show up anymore. So what happens is that, after I push Preview, I see all my paragraphs lumped together. I then go back and edit the post to put 2 spaces between each paragraph, instead of 1 (which is what I did in this post), and that seems to solve the problem.

I assume the same thing is happening with other posters, and I guess the way to avoid this extra step is to simply remember that I have to put 2 spaces instead of 1. But it has been a couple weeks and I haven't remembered it yet, so I probably never will. So it would definitely be better if the single space between paragraphs started showing up again. Again . . . just a minor issue I thought I'd call to your attention. It's not like it's keeping me up at night.

BAP: Your posts are showing as having 2 spaces between each paragraph. Does that not appear that way to you?

clout: They are showing with 2 spaces because, after I hit "Preview," I see the problem and then I go back and add an extra space between paragraphs. There have been a few posts where I forgot to do that and they showed up with no spaces between paragraphs.

It's still early, but I like how the fight for the 5th spot is shaping up.

Happ is leading for the job. It's early, but he's leading. I hope he gets it.

Park has pitched well and will be a key bullpen arm.

Kendrick goes back to AAA to work on his change up and regain his confidence and control. He's only 24, he's got time.

Carrasco goes back to AAA where he belongs. No reason to rush this guy.

bap: The issue may be in your preview. I only put one space between paragraphs and hit POST and it works just fine.


It's true Mayberry has not had any minor league CF starts. However, the Phillies now believe he can play there. Here's the proof:

"Mayberry Jr.'s power has impressed the Phillies, but it's the ground he covers in the outfield that has surprised Amaro most. Perhaps that's why Manuel put him in center field for the first time in his career Friday night."

"What's impressed me most about him is his athleticism in the outfield," Amaro said. "He plays extremely well defensively. He's actually much better than I thought he'd be. He moves to the ball and moves back on the ball very well."

Clout: Lighten up. Didn't you know that all positions are basically interchangeable. I hear Kendrick is in the hunt for the backup catcher slot.

CJ, if Charlie and Dubee are to be believed, then the 5 spot competition is still wide open. Dubee even implied yesterday that, if Kendrick put it all together in his last start, it might be enough time.

Now, is that true? Don't know - maybe Dubee doesn't want to discourage KK.

I'm not saying what the candidates have done up to this point is irrelevant, but I do think the braintrust will wait until the last possible moment to make any final decisions on the roster.

That alone implies what happens between now and then will matter.
I've posted this before, and I still believe it:

Because of injury risks and history, any SP who does not make the 5 spot will be stashed in Allentown (except for Park), as it is likely that one or more of them will get an MLB start during the season anyway.

SP depth is too valuable in today's game, and I would be very surprised if the Phillies have any intention of trading it away.

I saw the Ryan Franklin mention above and googled him to see where he is now. I noticed that prior to being acquired by Gillick he served a ten day (or game) suspension for violating the league substance policy. A published report has him saying (paraphrase)-- I never took the stuff, I would never take it, I bought a supplement from a health store, I have no idea how I came up positive.

I do not see how this is different from the Romero scenario, yet the punishment is five times less.

Let me


No, It's just you BAP.

IMHO, the only way Mayberry will break camp with the club is if Werth opens the year on the DL.

The way Werth has been getting dinged up, or, as Jason stated in the header that there may be deeper issues, a DL stint may happen.

OTOH, the Phillies have a reputation of being totally honest about the extent of their players' injuries, so Werth is probably OK.

LOL...yup...totally honest.

"clout: What are Ibanez's career numbers vs. LHP?"

Enough to say that Ibanez is capable of hitting LHP.

Ok . . . I guess the problem is just with me. Ignore that last post, Jason.

On Franklin/Romero . . . the rules have changed since Franklin was suspended. If Franklin had the same situation today, he'd get the same 50-day suspension as Romero.

clout - I am declaring Kendrick in purgatory (not washed up) because of his career GB%, WHIP and L/R splits. Tell me how he is a better option than Happ in the rotation, and how he would address the staff need for a LH RP. He needs to be at AAA this year. My guess (and it is, as you might state, fairly uninformed) is that he will be passed by others before long.

My guess about Werth is that he's been concentrating on building up three muscle groups to the detriment of others, and now he has to get the rest of his body back in shape.


Oh, the three groups: the right arm (using 12 oz curls) the right thumb (using a universal remote) and both buttocks (using a naugahyde recliner).

AWH: I'm certainly NOT declaring the race for the 5th spot over. It's too early. We're still a week away from Clout Day. KK could certainly put together a great final few starts to secure the job.

And you're right... either way, I see both KK and Happ getting starts this year, and maybe Park, too. Depth is VERY important because of injury risks.

I'll also add this... I think KK would likely be leading the race for the 5th starter spot with the Mets! ;-)

thephaithful: So you think a .733 OPS in the middle of your lineup vs. LHP is just fine?


Andy: Unlike you, I don't make conclusions based on 6 games and the first 2 weeks of ST. Whether KK is able to regain his command remains to be seen.

clout - "I don't make conclusions based on 6 games and the first 2 weeks of ST"

So, use ESP, then?

Either something's fishy with Werth, or he came to camp out of shape. Not good either way.

"I'll also add this... I think KK would likely be leading the race for the 5th starter spot with the Mets! ;-)"

OK, CJ, that got a laugh out of me.

BTW, I wasn't disagreeing with what you posted, merely trying to add to it.

Its fun to be able to argue over the 5th spot in the clout says though, there's a ton of ST left...lets wait till at least "clout day" until making any grand proclamations.


My favorite clout posts are always:

So I'm asking you a question here?


thephaithful: Have you seen Ibanez's career OPS vs lefties? You still think he is fine?


Andy: Making predictions off 6 games and 2 weeks of ST is foolish. We won't know if KK will regain his command or not. We will just have to wait and see.

Yes, clout makes excellent use of the rhetorical question as a means for making his point.

"Didn't you know that all positions are basically interchangeable. I hear Kendrick is in the hunt for the backup catcher slot."

Exactly so. Not only are all positions bascically interchangeable, all pitchers can throw any pitch, meaning that a pitcher in need of a new effective pitch can pick one up about as easily as the rest of use pick something up at Walmart. I hear KK's main problem is he can't decide whether he wants to add a change or a knuckle curve, and is losing too much sleep making the choice.

BAP: You think so?

Next time, I engage clout in a debate, I'll have to try the same thing. I could say things like:

So you think a 35-year old outfielder who can't field his position has more upside than a 23-year old C.J. Henry with tremendous physical tools? Fascinating.

For those who missed it:

Defense is worth half as much as offense.

The Link That's Surely Going To Stir Up More Pete Happy Debate

"I don't make conclusions based on 6 games and the first 2 weeks of ST"

If poor Spring Training performance provides nothing of value to predict season performance, and if excellent Spring Training production means very little in terms of whether or not someone will or should make the ML roster, why, exactly, do we keep posting ST stats?

The argument that "it's spring training, so it doesn't matter" gets old. If it didn't provide a clue to how players may perform, it wouldn't exist. That's one of the only two purposes that it serves.

Yo, new thread!

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel