Wednesday: Discussing Dobbs as a full-time option

In danger of overthinking third base, perhaps the answer is right under the Phillies' noses.

Late February is usually the toughest time to generate interesting content. Hot stove season is over. The reports suggest Ruben Amaro Jr. and the Phils are done tinkering. Games haven’t started. Players are doing jumping jacks and shagging balls. So the challenge is to generate thought-provoking content based on nothing in particular. The papers spend hundreds in travel and lodging expenses to solve this dilemma. Here, we spin the dial. Today, it lands on Greg Dobbs.

Dobbs is caught in a Catch 22. As the league’s premier pinch hitter, he’s extremely valuable off the bench. At the same time, his .846 OPS against righties – who the Phillies face 70-80 percent of the time – is awfully tempting to unleash in a more robust way at third base. Dobbs, 30, signed a generous two-year, $2.5 million extension in January, a salary that honestly goes beyond that of your ordinary bench player, especially one who was arbitration eligible for the first time. So as the Phillies figure out what to do at third base if Pedro Feliz isn’t ready, perhaps the best solution is to offer more starts to Dobbs, who didn’t exactly hurt the team when he started many games during the 2007 season. In fact, the Phils posted a rather good winning percentage in his starts.

Dobbs isn’t as one-dimensional as he seems. Before 2008, I would have said “dead-red fastball hitter,” but that may not be entirely accurate. According to the Phillies 2009 Annual, edited by yours truly, Dobbs was a .476 hitter when pitched a curveball last season. (The Annual is spectacular, by the way. More information on that later).

In other words ... you pay this guy a guaranteed $2.5 million. He hits when given a chance. He won’t murder you defensively. Is it worth giving him more than just 10 plate appearances a season against left-handed pitching, rather than settle for lightweights like Miguel Cairo, Eric Bruntlett, or even start the clock on Jason Donald, who’s unproven at the position?

Links: Check out my spring training pitching preview here.

Comments

[khaiokien]

There really is no reason he shouldn't be starting against right handed pitchers.. even more so if Feliz is out. I still maintain he should get more starts against righties even with Feliz playing, but we know that won't happen.

[bay_area_phan]

"Is it worth giving him more than just 10 plate appearances a season against left-handed pitching, rather than settle for lightweights like Miguel Cairo, Eric Bruntlett?"

Pat Burrell played third base in college. Oh wait . . .

[NEPP]

It can't hurt to try him...who knows, he might learn how to hit LHP and turn out to be more valuable than we already thought.

[Bubba]

I think if Feliz is out for days or weeks Dobbs should get the nod at 3B. If Pedro is out for months, I don't know if Dobbs is an every day answer.
But I bet he gets a chance to earn the job if it plays out to be a long rehab for Feliz.
Dobs is a known quantity- something Cholly likes.

[baxter]

I argued for Dobbs as the full-time 3B all last off-season.

[bay_area_phan]

My serious answer to jason's question is that, given the Phillies' already lefty-heavy lineup, I don't want Dobbs starting against left-handers. Of course, I don't want Cairo or Bruntlett starting against anyone, so I don't have a good answer for what to do if Feliz starts the season on the DL.

The present dilemma really shows us just how much the Phillies erred by not moving Jason Donald to third base last season. They knew as of last year that Donald was a bright prospect, who had hit very well the previous year. They also knew that, as long as he was with the Phillies, Donald had no future at shortstop. And they knew that we had a giant void at third base. Seriously, what were they thinking?

[Billy Mac]

Without Feliz, Bruntlett becomes the Anglo version of 2007 Nunez. Defensive substitute for Dobbs and starts when Moyer pitches. Not looking forward to that.

[NEPP]

But but but they didn't want to hurt his trade value...Remember Donald AND another prospect was almost enough to get us Ron Mahay.

[thephaithful]

NEPP: Good point, hard to become a wellroudned hitter when you can't even get the reps vs LHP to improve.

While risking ridicule by not looking at the numbers, wasn't Utley pretty poor vs LHP to start his career? That has certainly changed. Not saying Dobbs is as good of a hitter as Utley, but he's no slouch.

[AWH]

Hitman, for the record, all I did was 'copy and paste' what you had written in your post.

If you feel somehow that was conveying some sort of supposed 'intellectual superiority" on my part, than you are, quite simply, incorrect.

Still, you choose to engage, once again, in diversionary tactics, as though any supposed intellectual superiority, or even academic credentials have anything to do with the question I posed to you.

Now, to your point about not accepting my query as a valid argument:

Since when is a question a "valid argument"?

You are choosing to overcomplicate this to no end.

1) You made a statement which I thought was dubious.
2) I asked you to back the statement up with some data.
3) You chose not to answer the question.
4) When I pressed the issue, you resorted to namecalling.

Nice, intellectually honest job by you!

I, OTOH, conceded Harden would be an upgrade, but wagered that he wouldn't qualify under the 'cost' portion of your statement.
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But then, I guess you did answer it in a way, when you posted:

"Make a list of better pitchers than Myers who may be available next year? Who knows who may be available."
Posted by: Hitman | Tuesday, February 17, 2009 at 05:47 PM

and above

"As I stated in an earlier post, it is unknowable, except for free agents."

But, if your two assertions above are true - that is, that it is unknowable - then how could you with any intellectual honesty have made your original statement?

Which was:

"For what he will demand in 2010, they sure can get a far better starting pitcher than this guy."?
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(BTW, regardless of any supposed academic credentials on your part, it seems that you've much to study about baseball.

Some of the other posters here challenged you reliance on W-L record as a way judge a pitcher.

I'll help you out a little, but suggest you 'bone up' those academic credentials of yours, particularly where baseball is concerned:

From Bill James 1988 Primer (21 years ago, BTW):

Primer #8. "Single-season won-lost records have almost no value as an indicator of a pitcher's contribution to a team.")

[J. Weitzel]

What were they thinking? That Donald has the most value as a middle-infield prospect they could trade. They would be correct.

[Hitman]

AWH- My last post on the subject. You do have a reading comprehension problem. Single season W-L records have little value. However, I repeatedly referenced Myers career record. Talk about intellectual dishonesty.

[AWH]

Hitman, my last post:

You made an asserion for which you yourself have admitted there is no evidence. Period.

[bay_area_phan]

jason: Yeah, but wouldn't he have even more value if he could play both third base AND shortstop?

[clout]

Well, if Feliz's injury forces Cholly to start Dobbs vs. RHP that will sadden about half of the posters here, but the team will have a better chance of repeating as WFC.

But, knowing Cholly, I do not rule out the possibility that he will start Bruntlett everyday.

[fljerry]

Clout I believe most of us think Dobbs would be starting against RHP most of the time. What maybe we would like to see if he can hit against LHP and play more third. Thought this is what the subject matter is all about.

[MPN]

MLBTradeRumors says that the Phillies may make a blanket offer of $750K-$1 million to Beimel, Ohman, and Dennys Beyes and whoever accepts first gets the contract. Nice to have that kind of leverage. (Selfishly I want them to get Ohman because my Dutch emigre father-in-laws favorite English expression is "Oh man!" and buying him the Ohman jersey t-shirt will provide me with hours of inside joke frivolity.)

[MG]

Clout - Sadly I think we will see lots of the Gnome at 3B if Feliz is out to start the season and Utley is healthy.

Lots depends on if Feliz/Utley open the season on the regular season roster and way too early to tell though considering that is 6 weeks away yet.

[Klaus]

"But I bet he gets a chance to earn the job if it plays out to be a long rehab for Feliz.
Dobs is a known quantity- something Cholly likes."

True, he's a known quantity--as a pinch hitter. I'm afraid that Charlie will be highly reluctant to move Dobbs into another role.

As for whether it's worthwhile to resign Myers, can we say that it's too soon to tell? Lots of variables: Carrasco/Moyer/Happ/Myers/Myers' asking price/the market...etc.

[clout]

thephaithful: Good point. Uts didn't play much vs. LHP his first two seasons, but when he did,the results were terrible.

2004 OPS vs. LHP: .523
2005 OPS vs. LHP: .817, but with a BA of .219

[AWH]

While/if Feliz is out Dobbs should start against all RHP.

If/when Feliz comes back, Dobbs should still start against RHP.

If they feel Dobbs' bat is so valuable off the bench that they don't want to start him, then they should try to find another bench player who can actually hit off the bench.

BTW, if Bruntlett returns to career norms, especiallyhis norms against LHP, then I'm OK with a temporary Dobbs/Gnome platoon until Feliz is back.

[clout]

Klaus: In fairness, Dobbs did start 47 games last season, about 30 of them late in the season when he had an OPS in the high .800s, discrediting the posters that said he could only hit if he was a pinch-hitter.

[CJ]

Can someone track if Jayson Werth improved vs. righties once he became an everyday player?

His OPS vs RHP in 2008 was only slightly better than 2007.

[AWH]

Also, the Gnome has his best career stats in high leverage and 2 out-RISP situations - albeit small sample sizes.

Disclaimer: Eric Bruntlett is NOT a F/T starter at the MLB level.

[Klaus]

That's true. I only mean, I'd be surprised if Charlie felt comfortable starting Dobbs consistently against RHP, which means starting 6X% of the time.

[Sophist]

Bruntlett got the starts vs. RHP early on in Feliz's absence last year until he proved his futility. Dobbs stepped in and his performance is partly the cause of his contract.

Werth v RHP

March/April (54): .250/.315/.458
May (31): .185/.290/.296
June (32): .280/.438/.320
July (39): .265/.359/.353
Aug (79): .300/.443/.533
Sept/Oct (74): .235/.297/.368

[GM-Carson]

Dobbs as a full-time option- don't like. Dobbs as a platoon with Feliz- like

A breakdown of NL East Infields.

[Bubba]

With Feliz' back troubles I think Dobbs will get significant playing time, even when Pedro returns.
Charlie likes Feliz' defense with certain Phillies pitchers so I don't know if the opposing pitchers "handedness" will have the edge in Charlie's lineup decisions.
But I think Feliz will benefit from days off and Dobbs will benefit from more ABs.

[CJ]

Jose Reyes:

“We don’t worry about Philly. I don’t know why they worry so much about the New York Mets. They can talk about whatever they want to, because we worry about us. They are the one to win the World Series, not us, and we don’t say nothing about them. We just say congratulations to the Phillies. We focus on them when we play them, but they always seem like they’re talking something about us, and I don’t know why.”

“I heard that. I don’t know why they say that, because I’m not the only one pimpin’ when I hit a home run. A lot of people do that. People from Philadelphia, too. They stand for a couple of seconds at home plate and nobody say nothing. So like I said, I don’t know why they’re so focused on us. We just worry about us.”

[bay_area_phan]

CJ: Other than doing a game-by-game assessment, I don't know how to track that either. My subjective impression was that, yes, he did seem to hit better against right-handers once he was made the full-time starter. Then again, that might just have been the "reversion to norms" phenomenon. As I recall, he was actualy underperforming against right-handed pitching early in the year, and his final numbers looked very much like his 2007 numbers against right-handers.

The saving grace is that Werth still draws walks against right-handed pitching. Last year, he managed a .360 OBP against right-handed pitching &, the year before, it was .371. Since his OBP & speed are his main attributes against right-handed pitching, it would make sense for Cholly to bat him either first or second in the order when they're facing a right-handed starter. Batting him fifth or sixth is a waste, since he isn't likely to drive in many runs.

[donc]

Reyes plagerized that. Winston Churchill said that about the Germans in 1939.

[NEPP]

I really feel bad for Reyes...its gotta be tough walking around all day with that much sand in his panties.

[GM-Carson]

Jose Reyes is easily my most hated MLB player. I can't f'n stand him, he needs to S.T.F.U.!!

[NEPP]

Yup, I feel the exact same way.

[NEPP]

Funny thing, Mets fans seem to hate Vic, Werth and then Jroll in that order. I never realized it before looking at his splits but Werth is a Mets killer so far in his career. Much more so than Burrell ever was.

[richard belding]

@ DONC: lmao!! that made me laugh man. good stuff.

[Bubba]

Dear Sr. Reyas:
I hope the DC ExpoNats finish ahead of the Queens "Bailout Field" Choking Mets.

[NEPP]

Anyone see that blurb about the Nats top int'l prospect? He's actually 23, not 19 and his name is totally different? It was on MLBTradeRumors earlier today. They gave him $1.5 million to sign because he was so good at such a "young" age.

I wonder if they'll void the contract now?

[Brian G]

While this is obviously a very good thing to do, is anyone else slightly terrified by Hamel's wife's apesh*t nuts reasoning?

"We're in the process of adopting an AIDS orphan from Ethiopia," she said. "Maybe two. I'm so pumped. I'd adopt six if I could. When I was five years old—I grew up in a very rural town in Missouri, and I had never even seen a black person—they asked us to draw a picture of ourselves in the future, and I drew myself holding hands with a line of tiny black stick figures. I've always wanted this." She and Cole are also preparing, under the auspices of the fledgling Hamels Foundation, to build a girls' school in Malawi.

[Bubba]

NEPP- The last paragraph of the story is sure interesting:

"Lugo's buscon, who brokered the deal for him, is a childhood friend of Nats exec Jose Rijo. Rijo and Nats GM Jim Bowden were under investigation last year in regard to the bonus skimming scandal."

[NEPP]

That Mrs. Hamels sure seems smart...good thing she's pretty, I suppose.

[Wes Chamberlain]

To me the situation at 3rd is pretty clear. If Feliz starts the season injured, it will be a straight Bruntlett/Dobbs platoon. Bruntlett did a decent job of filling in for Jimmy last year, albeit after a terrible start. Also, Charlie has already stated that Ibanez will be a 9 inning player meaning Bruntlett has lost his LF defensive replacement duty. Therefore Charlie will take the chance to get Bruntlett some ABs playing 3rd.

Once Feliz is healthy, he is the everyday starter with Dobbs filling in against tough righties. With Ibanez replacing Burrell, Feliz' righthanded bat becomes even more important, so all the Dobbs supporters can just forget about Dobbs playing third against a lefty. Feliz' defense is very valuable and Dobbs just can't match that, and in my humble opinion his offensive doesn't make up for his lack of defense.

And unfortunately Jason Donald CAN'T play third, if he could he would have already been playing there. I like Donald, but let's face it, he is blocked by Jimmy and Chase and therefore Donald's biggest contribution as a Phillie will be as trade bait.

I know it is fun to discuss the options at third, but really the only thing that is going to change the fact that Feliz is the starting 3B, is if he continues to have back problems.

[donc]

I know I am completely biased, but the showboating that Reyes does is the worst kind. He shows up the opposition. When Vic slides into third base for a triple he gets up clapping his hands. He's pumped up. I think we all get that. It's a show of enthusiasm. Reyes hits one out and you need a calendar to time his trip around the bases. Look at me. Look at me. That says something completely different. I know Howard admires his homeruns a little bit and I wish he didn't do that, but Hell they sure are majestic. That would piss me off though. It is showing up the pitcher, so I know we do some of it too. But Reyes dancing and prancing he looks like he's got some kind of palsy. We could call it Pansy Palsy. Full Disclosure: I hate Reyes like dry poison.

[CJ]

"Feliz' defense is very valuable and Dobbs just can't match that, and in my humble opinion his offensive doesn't make up for his lack of defense."

Do you know the can of worms you just opened!?!?!?!?!?

[thephaithful]

NEPP: They better. Same thing with Miguel Tejada's contract. 6yr $72mil deal in 2004 when they thought he was 28, but actually was 30. You're telling me that the contract would have been the same if he was already 30?! No way. That is Fraud at its very definition. Between perjury and fraud, how is Tejada not in jail yet?

[EastFallowfield]

I wonder if Reyes somehow hears what's on the Mets blogs. They make a big deal about Victorino standing at home plate in the big comeback game at Shea last summer, but in real life it wasn't really noticeable. He stood still for about a second. Nothing like Reyes running around the bases gesturing, "Right Now, In August, We're #1!"

And, of course, no Met fan paid enough attention to the Phils WFC celebration to hear the Phils mention the Brewers, Dodgers, and Rays as other teams we beat along the way. They only heard about the Mets from what was clipped by their local media.

[donc]

CJ: I was thinking the same thing. I'm putting on my helmet.

[doubleh]

Any woman who uses the phrase "I'm so pumped" about adopting terminally ill children scares me a little and Brian G. I'm with you on her reasoning being somewhat loopy.

However, that these children are adopted and cared for are the important thing, so as long as that happens...it's OK by me if Mrs. Hamels is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

[Wes Chamberlain]

"Feliz' defense is very valuable and Dobbs just can't match that, and in my humble opinion his offensive doesn't make up for his lack of defense."

Do you know the can of worms you just opened!?!?!?!?!?

I'm well aware of the can of worms I opened.

But answer this. In the playoffs and World Series, was it the offense or defense/pitching that carried the Phils? There was definately the great fortune of some really timely, hugely clutch hits, but it was the steadiness of the defense and pitching that really carried the team.

So I am still on the defense over offense side of the Feliz/Dobbs discussion.

There is enough offense coming from other positions that the team can afford to give up some offense at 3B.

[AWH]

CJ, ditto.

Wes C.......duck.

[NEPP]

****And unfortunately Jason Donald CAN'T play third, if he could he would have already been playing there. I like Donald, but let's face it, he is blocked by Jimmy and Chase and therefore Donald's biggest contribution as a Phillie will be as trade bait.****

Which is why he played that position in the AFL and is slated to get a bunch of work there in the spring and at Lehigh.

[Jack]

Well, according to Clout, we're going to face far more lefty starters now because of Ibanez, so maybe Dobbs won't be that attractive of an everyday player.

My guess is we go with a pretty strict Dobbs/Bruntlett platoon if Feliz isn't healthy to start the year.

[Steve Jeltz]

NEPP: That was my question too. When was it definitively decided that Jason Donald CAN'T play 3B? I didn't get that memo.

SS is a more difficult defensive position to play than 3B which is why you more often see shortstops moving to 3B than vice versa.

[Hugh Mulcahy]

While there are definitely many SS's who have moved to 3B, and likely few 3B's who moved to SS, the two positions are very different. 3B requires more quick reactions, the ability to field slicing line drives adn short hops, and you have to charge the ball more for fielding bunts, swinging bunts and cutting off the ball in teh hole. No idea if Donald is sufficiently versatile to make the switch but, not every SS is able to make the move.

[Dick Richards]

Before Wes C gets pilloried, I'll put in my support for, "Dobbs...offense doesn't make up for his lack of defense."

That statement is arguable in the abstract, but in the context of the Phils, who value pitchers who throw ground balls, I want the best possible third base option for picking them up, especially with such a potent lineup.

[MG]

- I am a bit jaded but pretty hard to rip Cole and wife's plans to adopt/help AIDS children in Africa even if the explanation is kind of poorly or awkwardly-stated by her.

- Never understand Burrell's rep as a Met killer. Besides a few late HRs against them in his career, he generally had poor numbers against them. One of those common perceptions that doesn't hold up to stats very well.

- Reyes is arguably the one guy on the Mets right now that I do find annoying. He runs his mouth and showboats as much as anyone on both teams but when it comes to playing big in Sept., Dancin' Reyes has generally come up very small for the Mets.

In fact, Reyes' performance in Sept. is a big reason why the past 2 years the Mets have been home come Oct. 1.

[Steve Jeltz]

Hugh: Agreed. It is a different skill set and not everyone can make the move from SS to 3B. The point is we don't know if Donald is capable of making the move or not because he hasn't played 3B professionally as of yet (outside of the AFL).

[AWH]

MG, early in his career Burrell killed the Mets. The last couple of seasons he lived on reputation.

Agree on Reyes. Annoying as hell, and the chief choker on that team.

He powers the Mets' offense the same way JRoll posers the Phils'.

If Jose Reyes were to paraphase Chico Esquella:

"September no' been berry berry good to me."

[MG]

Numbers for Dancin' Reyes in Sept:

'05 (30 games) - .262/.299/.369 OPS .669
'06 (27 games) - .297/.360/.436 OPS .796
'07 (27 games) - .205/.279/.333 OPS .612
'08 (25 games) - .243/.314/.402 OPS .715

That folks is coming up small when it matters the most especially for a lineup man. If the Mets do come up short again in Sept and Reyes struggles yet again, I think it is very fair to being to label him a "choker" after this season.

[You wish you had jose]

Im not a troll, congrats on your WS, you guys played well when you needed to, i truthfully just want an answer from you guys on what im about to say. I dont get how you can say anything about the mets when the mets were on the mind of YOUR WFC during the playoffs, and during you city's one celebration in the past five hundred years, and what do mets fans say about the phillies ever? Nothing until the mets are brought up. Biggest example of an inferiority complex i have witnessed in my 20 years of existance...i feel for you guys..seriously

[Codfish]

How do you justify keeping a bat like Dobb's on the bench?
Isn't Spring Training a good time to give him some meaningful exposure to lefties.
New coach Sam P is a good hitting instructor. Hitting coach Milt Thompson is a lefty
and Raul Ibanez hits lefties. Have them spend some time with GB.

[Chris]

Mets fans are so cute with their inferiority complex talk. I was under the impression that one had to be inferior to have an inferiority complex.

How does it feel being a baseball afterthought in your own city?

[doubleh]

YWYHJ: Only Rollins said anything about the Mets at the parade and he was making a point about team play vs. individual play. And Rollins just likes to talk, sometimes to his own detriment.

The other guys who have trash talked in the media have largely been baited--on both sides. Who cares? Who does it really hurt? They seem to be having some fun. It only makes baseball more exciting and it beats talking about A-Rod anymore.

I guess Met fans/team don't have any inferiority complexes of their own--like the Yankees, for instance? That's what happens when teams are largely ignored for teams who have higher profiles or are in bigger markets. The Pittsburgh fans feel the same way toward Philly.

[AWH]

Ywyhjose, truthfully, the Mets are very rarely discussed here unless one of the trolls shows up here, and even then we wish the would go back over to metsblog and lower the level of conversation on that site.

But, please answer this question:

How is discussing our team's chief rival or the players on the team displaying an inferiority complex?

The Phillies are the World Champs. Period.

Believe me, we don't feel inferior at all, and believe we have a better team than the Mets this season also.

Just like the last 2 seasons.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Funny how the Mets fan steps up to comment the moment someone trashes Jose.

[Chris]

Also, what exactly are you doing in a thread about a Phillies role player if you never think about the Phillies?

I don't read any comments on Metsblog, especially comments about Luis Castillo or Ryan Church.

[You wish you had jose]

Oh i see so the newly aquired "we are no longer inferior" goes into effect here after winning two championships in , you have to help me with the history here, one hundred years i believe?

[You wish you had jose]

I respect what all of you are saying, i had a question and i asked it, even though i still have yet to get an answer other then we don't have one...?

[You wish you had jose]

And im in a phillies role player thread because your "master blogger" only made this one today ;(

[AWH]

BTW, I was not referring to you as a troll, as I'll take you at your word that you are not.
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Lastly, at this point in their careers, I would rather have Rollins than Jose - at least for the next 2-3 years.

Reyes advantage is that he is younger and faster, but that's it.

He is not as good a fielder, at a position that is one of, if not the, most important defensive positions on the field.

Offensively, Reyes has disappeared the last four Septembers, as MG so ably demonstrated above.

Rollins is also much more mature. Yes, he annoys even Philly fans with the way he talks sometimes, but he also walks the walk.

So, if you ask me in 3 years who I would rather have, it would probably be Reyes, but right now:

I'll take JRoll in a heartbeat.

[JBrod]

YWHYJ: What is exactly is the question that you are asking? In reading your post, I see a declarative, then you ask a rhetorical question which you answer, and then I see a few more declaratives.

[Jonesman]

"I dont get how you can say anything about the mets when the mets were on the mind of YOUR WFC during the playoffs, and during you city's one celebration in the past five hundred years, and what do mets fans say about the phillies ever?"

That is a brilliantly phrased question. How has no one managed to answer it? Its so clear and concise. Bravo Mets fan, this might be enough to get you a job interview at SNY.

[Chris]

In your "twenty years of existence", which team has more world championships (1-0), more NL pennants (2-1), and more NL East titles (3-1)? Just curious.

[doubleh]

I love how people declare themselves "not a troll" and then continue to bait other posters...which is exactly what trolls do.

It's like those who start a sentence with "Now I'm not a racist, but..." The sentence is always followed by something incredibly racist.

[Jonesman]

Looks like A-rod isn't the only one in NY who 'never got to go to college'

[You wish you had jose]

Well porfessor JBrod my question was, Why were the Mets on the minds on the phillies in the NLCS and in the WS celebration, and why did they bring up the mets countless times? I'll use this as an example, being that im probably from the same area most of you are from being in south jersey, and also let me say that I am NOT a giants fan. Dolphins fan actually, but when the Giants won the SB in 08' they didn't say a word about the eagles, and they are also HUGE rivals, so why the phils?

[AWH]

Jonesman, nice drop in. LMAO!!!!

[MPN]

You wish you had Jimmy: Come on man, no offense, but the last time your Metropolitans won the WFC you were -3 years old. None of this inferiority nonsense, okay? New Yorkers call us the 6th borough, and Beltran and K-Rod, and now Jose, talk about us and we are the ones who are obsessed with you? Really? Is that how you really want to play it? Come down to Citizens Bank Park some time when the Mets are in town, I think you'll find that it is the denizens of the team from Queens that are talking the trash, and not us. Now print this off and you can write it off on your taxes as an educational credit.

[You wish you had jose]

How am i a troll you started with me?

[AWH]

Hey Joneman, that's why A-Fraud shoveled it the way he did yesterday.

He was playing primarily to the NY audience, and he obviously thinks fans in NY are dumb enough to believe the BS he was shoveling.

[You wish you had jose]

Yea and i really wish my team had jimmy rollins hahaha.

[AWH]

Heyman at si.com rates the offseason of all MLB teams.

Rates the Phillies #1.

Link here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/02/18/winter.winners/index.html

[Jonesman]

Both teams talk trash because trash-talking is fun. Especially when you win. If the Mets want the last word this year, they should try to still be on a baseball field October 29, instead of ceasing to play around Sept. 25 or so every year.

[You wish you had jose]

And what did you call what the phillies did every year before 2007. I guess when you don't contend every year its all good when you don't make it to the playoffs.

[You wish you had jose]

You bash me for being a New Yorker (typical sterotype), but if you actually paid attention I live about 45 mins from philly.

[Jonesman]

Its all good when your team is World F***ing Champions!

[MPN]

You Wish You Had Jimmy:

A history lesson:

New York Mets, est. 1962
World Series titles (2) 1969, 1986
NL Pennants (4) 1969, 1973, 1986, 2000
East Division titles (5) 1969, 1973, 1986, 1988, 2006
Wild card berths (2) 1999, 2000

Philadelphia Phillies, since 1962
World Series titles (2) 2008, 1980
NL Pennants (4) 2008,1993, 1983, 1980
East Division titles (8)2008, 2007, 1993, 1983, 1980, 1978, 1977, 1976
Wild card berths (0) None

What are you bragging about again?

[doubleh]

The Phillies have choked plenty in the 126 year history, but the position of choker is currently being held by the NY Mets until they are unseated by another team. It's all about "what have you done for me lately" in sports.

I still don't understand this dude's point. Who gives a crap what Rollins said at the parade? And I don't recall anything anybody said at the NLCS Championship.

If the Mets don't like it, perhaps it will motivate them to win more games than the Phillies. I should think they wouldn't need that as professionals, but whatever. Rivalries are fun. In 1980, Tug had some words for NY at the WS parade, too. Rollins was just following in his footsteps.

[You wish you had jose]

Not to mention how that wonderful "quote" that all your children heard during the celebration ( i call it a met-bash-ation) should be good for their vocabulary :)

[CJ]

Wes: Sorry... I don't remember the "steadiness" of the defense being a key to our World Series victory.

Defense matters... but so does offense.

And people have yet to show just how much more effective Feliz was last year than Dobbs. The defensive stats, as raw as they are, just don't support the idea that there is a chasm between Feliz's defense and Dobbs'. Sorry.

[richard belding]

absolutley NO ONE reffers to philly as "the 6th borough" sorry bro.

[JBrod]

Anybody want to rehash the Abreu trade? Or discuss the merits of Feliz as an everyday third baseman?

[MPN]

You pick your nickname from Saved By the Bell and you want street cred? Really?

[doubleh]

One quote about the Mets at the parade somehow makes the entire parade about the Mets? You lost me there. It was one part of Rollins' speech. Get over it. Sounds like you have a superiority complex; not the other way around.

Utley's words were nothing children haven't heard before and by lesser men. My advice to my own child: "Don't say that word. When you grow up and win a World Series of your own--preferably for the Phils--you can say that word. But only then."

[Jonesman]

"my 20 years of existance" made me think, typical Mets fan, so bad at spelling

"Well porfessor JBrod" made me laugh

"( i call it a met-bash-ation)" made me think this dude might be a comic genius

[CJ]

From Jon Heyman:

1. Phillies: The world champions did an amazing job locking up their best young players, getting both Cole Hamels and Ryan Howard under contract for three years to avoid the arbitration process that blew up on them last year when Howard won an unprecedented $10 million as a first-year arbitration-eligible player. By all accounts Raul Ibanez will be great for the clubhouse and lineup -- though a right-handed hitter might have made a little more sense.

2. Mets: A run at Manny Ramirez would have made them the kings of the winter. But while they'll hope Fernando Tatis and Daniel Murphy can form a viable platoon in left field and apparently also that Luis Castillo can spring to life (Jerry Manuel wisely is already making him feel better by saying he might get some leadoff at-bats), they did plenty to overhaul a pitching staff in need. Importing two stud closers -- the record-setting Francisco Rodriguez and J.J. Putz -- within 48 hours saved their winter. Plus, they not only brought back talented (but inconsistent) lefty Oliver Perez but gave themselves plenty of options at the back end of the rotation by adding Tim Redding, Freddy Garcia and Livan Hernandez.

[Klaus]

"That is a brilliantly phrased question. How has no one managed to answer it? Its so clear and concise. Bravo Mets fan, this might be enough to get you a job interview at SNY."

Ha. But inane run-on sentences are easier to formulate because relating subject to object clearly and concisely takes mental powers and it's pretty obvious when you consider my syntactical aptitude that I'm pretty deeply in debt in that department by the way when has a mets fan ever said anything about phillies fans ever including now?

[Klaus]

"my 20 years of existance" made me think, typical Mets fan, so bad at spelling"

It really does seem to be congenital.

[CJ]

"It has been pretty funny just to hear it going on and on and on," Rollins said. "I sit there and I laugh and say, 'Really, this is still going on?' They're still rolling with that? Every time a team is going to be good and is going to face another team that is going to be good, someone is going to have something to prove. If that's the term they are going to use to stake their claim, then so be it."

As for his an NL East prediction, Rollins added: "I don't have anything. I retired from that business."

[CJ]

Column here on Comcast Sportsnet with some interesting tidbits:

*Utley is ahead of schedule and took ground balls in the field. Feliz did not. He'll start throwing in a couple days. Utley is ahead of Feliz.

*Lidge gave the bullpen and catchers new Rolex watches!

*Madson attributed his increase in velocity to a new training regimen, adrenaline, and confidence in his new role. He say a slight change in mechanics may have helped a little.

*Charlie on Geoff Jenkins: "If you want playing time, take it away from somebody," Charlie said. "You can do that by hitting the ball."