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Wednesday, February 18, 2009

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We're so obsessed with the team we beat to take the division two years in a row...yeah, okay. How many of us go trolling over at Metsblog compared to them coming here?

Oh, in case you haven't heard, Griffey is gonna be a Mariner this year instead of going to Atlanta. He made it official a couple hours ago. Personally, I think that's a bad move for both Griffey and the Braves but hey, what do I know? Either way, good for us as it helps keep the Braves down.

Here's what irritates me about this trash talk: it's entirely fueled by the media. The NY media are the ones posing these questions to the Mets players. Otherwise, when does it come up? It doesn't. Let's look at when this all started. J-Roll says the Phils are the team to beat before the '07 season, and it ticks off the Mets. Rollins never called out the Mets. He simply said that, based on the moves the Phillies made in the offseason, he felt that his team was the one to beat. I don't know about you, but the leader of my team BETTER feel like his is the team to beat. It shows a lot of confidence. Before the '08 season, Beltran said he thought the Mets were the team to beat. Great. They went out and got Santana. He should feel that way. Reyes is completely misguided if he thinks that the Phillies roll into work every day thinking about the Mets. So are the Mets fans. If anyone has an inferiority complex, it's Mets fans. The losing and the late-season collapsing is getting to them. Phillies fans have no reason to feel inferior. Inferior to who? Last I checked, World Champions are second to no one. This so-called war of words is a joke brought upon by the NY media. The Mets are whining and crying and looking for a scapegoat. It's the Mets, not the Phillies, who should shut up and play baseball. The Phillies haven't said anything. They don't have to.

That pretty much sums that up...well said.

Hahaha, so disillusioned. The Mets (and their fans) remind me of the song, "You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you."

Seriously that song is so freaking stupid. Who the hell is it about if its not about her ex?

Griffey would have made the Braves interesting, but man, frail for sure.

I think Griffey would have been a good, but frail, platoon OF for them. I'm quite happy they didn't sign him.

Junior is a hell of a lot easier to root for in Seattle. who really cares about the New York media. The guys who write for their papers are borderline retarded. Freudian test cases for the most part.

hey, look at griffey this way: he's now one step closer to being acquired for a playoff run pat gillick-style.

I was really enjoying the rivalry for a while and thought the "we're the team to beat" stuff was great. Now it has gotten old and ridiculous. It was a natural thing before, now it is completely egged on by the media and feels contrived. Both teams should have meetings at this point and be told to just shut up and say that all the talking will be done on the field.

On another note, and sorry if this is hijacking the thread, but I might be in Clearwater next week. I know there aren't any games, but if I head over to the ballpark is there anything to see? Can you see the players work out? What are the best spots at the complex to hang out at? I know all the restaurants, places to stay and area, I just need specifics on if there is anything cool to see at the spring training complex next week. Thank you in advance for any help.

Who is Jose Reyes?

Len, the Inky and DN have spring training guides if you can find them in the archives.

Len39: There are games next week. I am going to see the Jays play the Phils Thurs (2/26) and Tampa at Phils Sat (2/28).

True joe, Griffey signing with the Mariners is just like saying Griffey signing with the Phils because as with every Mariner, he'll end up here.

The point of Jose Reyes' comment is this: after winning the world series, 3 Phillies have made comments about the Mets. Hamels is excusable, since it was WFAN's fault. But Jimmy Rollins taking a shot at the Mets at the parade, Chase Utley too, and Jimmy Rollins going on the MLB network and AGAIN taking shots at the mets. Its irritating to hear someone so accomplished worry about another team who was a postseason afterthought this year.

Also, Jose's comments about being criticized were most likely directed towards Mitch Williams, and his whole "Someone should end Jose Reyes'career for pointing to the sky" comment. He's an idiot. Nothing to do with the team, just the guy.

It's interesting to compare the two teams: Wright vs. Utley, Reyes vs. Rollins and so on through the lineup. It's fair to say the two teams stacked up equally well last year till you got to the bullpen, where the Mets came up empty last year, and the Phils all had career years.

Wonder why Jimmy Rollins numbers were down last season?

This, from his mlb.com interview:


"Q: How long did his sprained left ankle bother him?

A: The ankle, really, it probably didn't stop bothering me until December. You do a couple things, then you hear a pop a couple times, and it's like, 'Oooh.' It was just the scar tissue tearing. It's something that needed to happen. Coming into the playoffs, a couple times I was on first base and talking to Prince [Fielder], and I was like, 'It feels like my Achilles is going to go, but it's going to have to blow for me to come out of this game.' But it feels good now."

I am very troubled by these sporadic comments about teh Mets. We're doomed. No doubt about it. My apologies to Jose Reyes.

okay, are these comments not more ridiculous than any action on the ballfield? ask ryan howard the same question, please! see how he responds.

Brooklyn Mets Fan: What did Chase ever say about the Mets? His "Boo-FU" comments were directed to those booing him at the ASG, not Mets/Met fans in particular.

Mitch Williams said what? I don't recall that. I remember Larry Anderson saying "Someone oughta put one in his neck," but nothing like what you wrote out of Mitch's mouth. Though, to be fair, he's pretty old school. He could have said something like that.

I don't think Jimmy Rollins is worried about anybody. He apparently likes getting people riled up. I bet you weren't complaining when he criticized his own fan base, although he had every right then, too. That's who Rollins is. We have to accept that side of him; same way you have to accept Reyes' antics--and he does have them, don't deny it--as part of the package.

I'll take Rollins' enormous mouth over Myers' and his personal problems any day of the week.

On the last thread I saw a lot of guys say they hate Jose Reyes. Never thought about it , but I don't hate any of their players individually. I've always hated the Mets as a team though. The only Mets players I have hated over the years were Gary Carter, Lenny Dykstra and Roger McDowell... Since I travel in the NY area alot, I listen to the WFAN. That makes me hate Mets' Fans and the radio hosts, more than the teams' players... Some guys are right about the fans Mets inferiority complex, they feel inferior to the Yankees and there fans, so they like to Puff out their chests to the Philllies fans. Thats why the last 2 years are killing them.

Got off topic on my previous post... I really don't see the hatred for Jose Reyes. He does'nt seem like a bad guy to me. He's not nasty or arrogant. Just a young guy that is trying to have some fun. He's just a little immature and has'nt figured out how to win. Wright has'nt either though. They're both at disadvantages though, due to NY's media keeping them focused on this soap opera nonsense, instead of playing ball... That will only continue to help the Phillies.

Phils talked about the Mets at the celebration, yes. Mets fans still having hissy fits to rival the hissy fits they had in 07 about JRoll and 08 when Phils responded to Carlos "Caught Looking" Beltran's remarks.

They talked about the Brewers too. Don't remember any Brewers fans having hissy fits about that. No clip of that part shown in NYC or national media.

Also talked about the Dodgers. No LA fan hissy fits. No clip shown in NYC etc.

Also talked about the Rays. No "Rays fan" hissy fits. No clip bla bla bla.

Funny, what do those four teams have in common, I wonder?

---Reyes is seen around the league as a player of low character. Great player - dangerous player - one of my top five most feared players - but that's how it is.---

One of the top five most feared players...until about September 1 and then it's Gag-time.

I love the rivalry, but when it becomes a personal one, that's when there is trouble. If someone doesn't like Reyes, that's fine, but to advocate "putting one in his neck" is a dangerous line to walk.

In addition, the media everywhere sucks - not just New York. It's all about context, which no one ever gets from the media anyway, so I take all quotes with a grain of salt.

"Funny, what do those four teams have in common, I wonder?"


EF, let me guess..............hmmmmmm, I'm thinking.........................................................................................................................................................................................hmmmm, no that's not it............................................................................................................................................................................................OH, I GOT IT.....
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could it be the other teams actually MADE THE PLAYOFFS!

All of this makes my hatred for the Mets much more intense, but it'll never come close to overtaking my love for the Phils.

mikes, good posts. I think you summarized it very well.

The Mets are going to have it tough this season, becuase if the division race is close in late August, every player on that team is going to get asked the same questions over, and over, and over again.

Reporter: So, David, here we are in August again and the race is close. What makes you think you won't falter like you did the last 2 seasons?

DWright: Well, I think it's a different year and we're a different team blah blah blah...
.
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It's going to be brutal and annoying as all getout.

Carson, I really don't hate the Mets. It's love for the Phils that I have too.

Besides, my memory is not so short.

The Mets sucked for a lot of years until recently (except 2000) and it's the Bravos that kept winning the division and killing the Phils.

I actually 'dislike' the Braves more than the Mets, but I'm not a hater.

While I respect him as a player (he'll make the HOF) nothing made me happier than to hear Chipper say, after the Phils had swept all 9 from the Braves in Atlanta last year:

"I don't remember anyone beating us like this".

"Reyes is seen around the league as a player of low character."

No, he's seen as immature. Brett Myers is seen as a player of low character and for good reason.

And actually, I don't hate the Mets.

It's their stinkin', rude, obnoxious, uneducated, non-baseball-knowledge fans who come down to the Zen, and act like they just won the WS.

I posted this before, but in 2006, I was at a Met game in the middle of the season and some idiotic steMheads were chanting "1980" outside the park before the game.

What a cheap, unoriginal imitation of Yankees' fans!!! They were acting as though they were the ones that had won all the WS titles. My friends and I couldn't believe how stupid they looked and sounded.

But I'm sure they didn't even realize it.

Actually, AWH, I was going for what do these teams have in common?

Mets, Brewers, Dodgers, Rays.

Answer: All 4 fell victim to the Phils in 08, yet were still mentioned during the celebration.

Mets should be honored to be mentioned along with actual champions/winners.

Half the posts on Metsblog this week (even with Spring Training, ARod, Shea being torn down) are about the Phils and how they're not obsessed with us.

"It's their stinkin', rude, obnoxious, uneducated, non-baseball-knowledge fans who come down to the Zen, and act like they just won the WS."

If you're going to call someone uneducated, can you at least use syntax that makes sense?

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20090213_Gonzo___In_battle_of_wits_with_Phillies__Mets_unarmed.html

Also, it's not just the New York Media. Look at the article above, written 5 days ago. That seems a whole lot like a sports editorial, because it's not reporting on a whole lot of fact.

Keep trying jwells5.

Hey, jlwells, you got the syntax and bad grammer joke.

Thanks!!!

Perhaps you are one of the few Met fans that actually got past 8th grade.

Oh, and as to the article you referenced, almost no one in Philly reads Gonzalez. Until you pointed it out I wasn't even aware of piece.

Actually I counted 38 posts on Metsblog since Monday morning. Of that 38, my brief skimming revealed 4 that talked about the Phils, and then in direct context of quotes from the players, who were asked directly about what had already been said.

I'm a Mets fan and I have to agree in that the media really is making this whole war of words bigger than it is right now so they have something to write about. I listened to the whole Hammels interview on WFAN, and Evan Roberts, the host, might as well have said, "Do me a favor and just repeat after me: The mets are choke artists"

But in my view, and please correct me in i'm wrong, I do think the Phillies have some kind of "obsession" with the mets. That incident mentioned before about writing Jose Reyes on Victorino's locker, I heard the tv announcer or radio announcer sticking it to new york within 20 seconds of the phils winning the world series, and I believe Rollins mentioned the mets during their world series parade. Why would you mention the mets when they weren't even involved? You didn't even play them in the playoffs. I dont recall the yankee announcer saying "take that, boston!" when they won the world series in 2000.

The phillies are the world champions and the division champs the last two years in a row. They have earned the right to say whatever they want. I just find it curious that what they chose to say at times involves the mets, when the mets aren't really involved.

"How 'bout dem Mets?

Hay, we wuz robbed by dem umpyres last seezen. It wuz all der falt. Dey wudn call strikz de way dey waz suppozed to in Septembur.

We no we had de best teem, jus axe any one uv us.


We had Johan and was de best teem. We even said so befour de seezen, when we trolled over hear and gloated on Bearleegur aftur the trade."

If no one reads him, how is he employed?
I found it on the newsticker of this site on Friday...

I guess they don't teach logic in Philly.

The whole war of words thing is created and fueled by the media. That said, I personally enjoy the rivalry and think that a little trash talking is fine. It just adds to the intensity of the games. A lot of these comments are taken out of context anyway like some mentioned. If you read Beltran's comments they sound a lot worse than if you actually see the interview.

Saying that you should put one in someone's neck is uncalled for.

If the Phils obsession with the Mets leads to a 3rd division title, Keep obsessing!!

Mets fan, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think you "get it".

What I mean is this:

Reyes, who is indeed a tremendous player, is seen around the league as an immature showboater because of the finger raising and dancing in the dugout, etc.

His antics affect the way the entire league views the team as a whole, particularly because it doesn't seem that anyone on the Mets tells him to stop.

It's not just the Phillies.

There was a story last season from Atlanta when the Mets were losing to the Marlins late in the season, and the Braves had the game on the monitor in the clubhouse. It was the game the Mets were eliminated from the playoffs.

The Braves started singing "Meet the Mets" in the clubhouse, in mockery of the team from Queens.

Simply put, it's not just the Phils who have a problem with Reyes, Tatis & Co.

When you have a young immature player who, in the middle of the season, acts like he just won the WS because he hit a HR, and proceeds to show up the other team, it doesn't play well in the other dugout.

Reyes does it throughout the league, not just against the Phillies. The Mets and their fans dismiss it as "it's Jose being Jose", even encouraging it with the silly chant/song before all his ABs in NY.

Now, you mentioned the incident about the picture of Vic being posted on his locker with "J. Reyes" written on it. It happens that Reyes plays for the Mets, but if he played for the Braves or any other NL East team, the result would have been the same.

It was the Phillies' way of enforcing discipline in the clubhouse, reminding Vic not to act like a moron.

That's one big difference between the Phillies and the Mets.

David Wright, who I respect (I wish he was the Phils 3B), if he were really a team leader, would tell Jose to STFU and knock the antics off until the team actually wins something.

jwells, I'm sure you are aware that one actually has to 'click' on a link to read it.

As they say in Queens:

"No clickee, no readee".

And here I thought we were obsessed with keeping Bruntlett out of the starting lineup!

My bad.

This thread is more boring than the spring-training-nonroster-invitees thread.

Oh, and if you think I like Ryan Howard preening at the plate after he slugs one you are wrong.

The last thing we need in Philly is a cheap Manny Ramirez immitation.

Ryan should get his butt around the bases and show some respect for the other team.

"...can you at least use syntax that makes sense?"

"I guess they don't teach logic in Philly."

Actually AWH's sentence, syntactically speaking, was fine. And about Gonzalez, the logic was unimpeachable. As to how many people read Gonzalez, that's really just a question of fact.

Better pretentious Mets trolls please.

I'll always hate the Mets just because how classless and below the belt they were during the world series. The Mets blog was disgusting and then when we won it the trash talk here was vile. So I'm 22 now and will hate the Mets until the day I die.

While I understand the dislike of Reyes' dancing in the dugout, I can't remember any other time where he pimped his home run EXCEPT for that Philly game last summer.

This all makes it seem like he has his finger up when he hits a long fly ball out, in case it goes over the wall, which is flatly untrue. He doesn't pimp his home runs; he pimped that one as far as I can remember.

Bulletin board material is for the fans. Players just like to get the fans into it. And besides, trash talk in baseball is stupid. It's not like you run out there and have to tackle someone.

At least 5 Metsblog posts since Monday on Phillies:

"We Don't Worry About Philly"

"Reyes and Castillo" (First Reyes chat about Phils)

"Phillies Exclusive Tix Pre-Sale"

"Phillies Can Talk All they Want"

"Beltran: Kill Cole Hamels"

Anyway, funny caption on the picture of the last piece of Shea stadium going down on the front page of the NY Times: One Last Collapse

Get over it Mets fans. There was some post-WFC trash talk only because of the preseason trash talk. It brought it full circle.
And trust me, I watched about 50 hours of WFC celebration/coverage, both live and on TV, and Mets talk occupied about 10 minutes of it at the most. They had a season-long battle with the Mets to win the division, its part of the story, what is the big deal?

"It's their stinkin', rude, obnoxious, uneducated, non-baseball-knowledge fans who come down to the Zen, and act like they just won the WS."

Actually AWH's sentence, syntactically speaking, was fine.


The last comma is out of place and divides the sentence in a manner that doesn't make sense. The "and" alone is enough.


Better corrections from Phillies fans please.

I'm an equal opportunity hater. I hate the Mets, the Braves, the Fish and the gNats all equally.

EastFF, here's what you said:
"Half the posts on Metsblog this week (even with Spring Training, ARod, Shea being torn down) are about the Phils and how they're not obsessed with us."

So, if we use 5 as actual posts about the Phillies and obsession, that's about 14 percent - less than half.

With that said, the Phillies pre-sale one had nothing to do with the obsession, and the "Phillies Can Talk All They Want" was an opinion piece that the Phils can and should say what they want since they won the WS. So, that's less than 8 percent of the time. I know how Beerleaguers love stats.

Yeah, that's a grammar issue, not syntax.

Better corrections of corrections.

Please.

Only slightly more than 1 post per day on the Phils at metsblog? (Although I stopped counting when I got to 5 because someone here said there were only 4...)

Well, drew, we all exaggerate. The Phils throw a sentence or two NY's way during a day long celebration of their Championship (along with a few nods towards Milwaukee, LA, and Tampa) and they're 'obsessed' with the Mets.

Or, more specifically, a separate grammar issue.

"… i can tell from the e-mail people send me that they expect me to be all hot and bothered by this stuff… but, the fact is, i just don’t care… the Phillies can say whatever they want… and we, and the team, need to take it… the only way it stops is by the Mets winning… end of story… so, K-Rod, and whomever else wants to talk smack from Tradition Field, zip it… please, prove your value on the field with actions, not words…"

good job by Matt Cerrone on that one. Credit where credit is due.

East, It's really me giving you a hard time - nothing more. I don't care about how many posts Metsblog makes about the Phils, and was just bringing it up to be a d*ck, staying true to the impression we all have of the other teams' fans.

I enjoy the rivalry, and I only said 4 posts because I didn't count the one about the pre-sale tickets.

Yo, new thread.

Ten minutes dedicated to the Mets during the WS celebration, was a thank you for handing them the division the last two years.

"… i can tell from the e-mail people send me that they expect me to be all hot and bothered by this stuff… but, the fact is, i just don’t care… the Phillies can say whatever they want… and we, and the team, need to take it… the only way it stops is by the Mets winning… end of story… so, K-Rod, and whomever else wants to talk smack from Tradition Field, zip it… please, prove your value on the field with actions, not words…"

...what do you know...a well written...metsblog post...as always...

The suspense of the writing on Metsblog is too much to handle. Thanks for the complete sentences, proper capitalization, and intelligent baseball writing, Weitzel.

why do we even care about the mets? should they even be relevant to us at this point? I remember after we beat the rays in game 5 and I walked out of the stadium and I kept hearing F the mets chants. I just thought it was ridiculous. Why do we waste our time cheering against the mets.They have a solid roster, but I will worry about them if they have a 5 game lead is september. Until then, lets just praise the champs and forget about the irrelavant New York mets

Dude, I love this stuff. To all of you out there who think this is ridiculous, that it goes to far...you're probably right.

But that's what makes it awesome. It's a rivalry. It's supposed to be intense, agitating, volatile. You're supposed to find any reason at all to dislike the other team, even if the reasons are contrived, media-driven theater.

Sure, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters in a rivalry is what happens on the field. But just think of the spotlight all of this chatter is putting on the Phillies vs. Mets; all of their games this year will be played in the national spotlight. They might become the closest thing the National League has to Yankess/Sawx.

Which is good for baseball.

This will only make the match-up that much more intense. I, for one, can't wait for these games. Keep talking the talk - it makes it that much more intriguing to see who will actually walk the walk.

Don't flatter yourself TPP, the Mets division rival will ALWAYS be the Braves.

I am really going to miss Wags on the Mutts. He was always good for some ridiculous incendiary comments after he blew up, or even when he didn't blow up but the media still pestered him. He was the guy I loved to see fail.

I don't harbor that kind of grudge against Reyes and Wright, although the sullen look Reyes has after the Mets fail to make the playoffs is usually good for a laugh.

LOL

You guys are idiots if you think the Phillies and their associates didn't rip the Mets and Reyes AFTER you won the World Series.

Those watching the World Series parade at home heard Mitch Williams for no reason say, "I wonder if Jose Reyes is watching this right now."

So, please, Reyes may have long drawn out handshakes which really piss people off, but he doesn't talk, ever. He was simply wondering why Philly players and announcers (boring Harry Kalas included) were so fascinated with the Mets after they had won the title.

Reyes did point after that HR against Philly last year. The night before, Shane Victorino stood on home plate clapping for at least five seconds after Philly came back from a 6 2 lead in the ninth. Get a grip.

I have a side discussion here. The New York Mets were mediocre in 2001, disgraceful from 2002-2004, then mediocre again in 2005. Then in 2006, they win the NL East and fall in the LCS. I don't understand how 1 division crown even gives any Met player the right to be overly cocky, regardless if you weren't apart of the awful seasons before 2006. I remember one player saying "we're so good, we get bored" or something to that extent in 2006. I mean c'mon, they really haven't done anything on the field.

The point I'm trying to make about the Mets is - they are full of themselves but have nothing to show for.

The Phillies on the contrary, with the exception of 2002, put together consistent winning seasons in the last 7 years, won 2 division titles and the World Series.

To me, the Phillies can say whatever they want. The Mets take all the pride of one division title and believe they are the best of baseball. Sure, the Phils didn't win anything before '07, but that is not the point I am trying to make.

I'd also like to point out that if anything, Mets fans are jealous of Phillies fans. We have 8 division titles (won after '76), 6 NL Pennants, (5 of which were won from 1950 on), and 2 World Championships.

The Mets:
5 division titles, 4 pennants and 2 World Championships.

What goes on now has nothing to do with the past then right? Yet somehow Philly fans get ragged on cause their team doesn't win enough and only wins 2 titles in 125, yet we WON more than they ever have, and most of what we won came in the same amount of time the Mets have been around.

If anything, Mets fans and media are obsessed with Philly, because they can't win like we do.

why is it necessary, in a convo about baseball, for people to continually say things like
"As they say in Queens:

"No clickee, no readee". or make other comments like that.. taking rips on NY for the people that live there?? and then continually say mets fans are classless?...look in the mirror at all the jersey trash and rude philly fans that roots for philly sports teams. everyone hates philly bc their fans act like complete jackasses, win or lose. thats how it is and will be...especially with people making comments like they do on this site and then claim mets fans are classless.

It actually started with Cole Hamels continually calling the Mets choke artists, so the Phils won the series, their players and fans should start acting like it. Get over the Mets. Stop talking about them.

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