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Tuesday, January 06, 2009

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Complete reclamation project. 0.01% chance to make the Phils' opening day roster.

Its always better to be safe than sorry. Hey get into middle spring training. And Utleys progress has a setback. Then the Phillies would be in a tail spin for a fairly good 2nd baseman (starter).

Minor league deals are a pittance in this league (especially in this case: Latin pietas - "pity") in which case there's not much harm in taking this chance on Giles, but what exactly do the Phils think of Jason Donald?

Donald hasn't played second. They wouldn't throw him into the fire, and they wouldn't want to start his clock just to experiment there. To your point, it sounds like the Phils feel favorably about Donald overall.

Thanks for the response. I hadn't realized he'd only played SS (and 3B recently).

@clout -- what would be the reasonable action by Romero. You have yet to explain what would have been a reasonable action.

Why is it that I cannot picture Marcus Giles in a Phillies uniform? I can picture Manny Ramirez or John Smoltz in one more easily.

Anyway, if everything were to go optimally, he's not a bad pickup. More likely, though, he's Karim Garcia.

By the way, from the last post - I agree, Jason, 'character' is probably not the word I wanted to use in regard to Romero, but yes - let's just say when I saw the headline for the first time, I was met with considerably less than shock.

Its funny how things work.
Marcus Giles hits .229 in 2007 and gets released
Eric Bruntlett hits .217 in 2008 and gets his salary raised to 1million for 2009.

I hope Utley is ready for Opening Night or that Donald can fill in at 2nd because it's going to be hard to root for Marcus Giles. I've always referred to him as a sawed-off twit and never liked him; although if a Phillie I'll find a way to support him. He's pretty much done though, but there's no harm in signing him to a minor league deal I suppose.

Meh...my first reaction was "damn, why couldn't it be the other Giles. Hopefully this will work out better than some of our other "He's got a good brother" signings...Mike Maddux, Jeremy Giambi, etc etc"

I was hoping for Brian Giles, too. As we know, a team can never have too many left handed outfielders.

Well there is that...

How does a player peak at 25 and collapse by 29? Not exactly your normal career path for out of Marcus.

Anyone care to go through the list of Phillies "he's got a good brother" signings throughout history?

Weitzel- you ask I deliver...

Phils wrong brother syndrome:

Jeremy not Jason Giambi
Juan not George Bell
Mike not Greg Maddux
Rick not BJ Suroff
Frank not Joe Torre
Mark not Al Leiter
Tim not Todd Worrell
Vince not Dom or Joe Dimaggio
Tom not Robb Quinlan
Ken not George Brett

*I already had the list ready because I did some research for my post tomorrow.

Dom DiMaggio?

Sorry...it was Vince DiMaggio...not Dom.

Don't forget Michael Garciaparra!

Anybody know what was wrong with Giles that kept him from playing even in the minors last season?

Jake Blalock not Hank

I have Garciaparra on my post for tomorrow, but I did forget Blalock...thankd BedBeard.

I still think the Buchholzes must be related somehow.

Giles' next stop is the Mendoza Line.

Cole not Mitch Hamels ;)

Just another cheap, nothing "big deal, so what" signing. Instead of working to improve the Major League roster, Amaro does things like this....again. We already know everything we need to know about the guy. He's not the right GM for this team. His moves (or lack thereof) this off-season prove that.

Alby: "Anybody know what was wrong with Giles that kept him from playing even in the minors last season?"

He wasn't hurt. He played for the Rockies in ST and got cut. Then had a tryout for the Dodgers who chose not to sign him. I'm guessing he could've played in the minors, but didn't want to.

As NEPP noted above it is most unusual to peak at 25 and collapse at 28. About the only thing I can compare it to is a former Phillie singles hitter who suddenly developed power at age 30 and was washed up at 32.

Nothing like chucking 600k out the window. Then again they're used to watching more than that go to waste so it wont hurt thme too badly.

Kris Benson was considered to have a "chance", so i can't see how this would ever work.

I was hoping the Phils would upgrade their utility middle INF this offseason because of Bruntlett's weak performance last year and Utley's likelihood of missing at least 2-3 weeks to start the season.

Instead, the Phils spend $1M to resign Bruntlett and $600k to sign Giles. Ugh. $1.6M would have been possibly better spent on a different alternative or in more likelihood making a deal and taking on a little additional salary if needed instead. $1.6M should have given them the room to make the work.

His pansy act of tossing JC under the bus yesterday showed me all I needed to know about Ruben.

$1M to resign Bruntlett, $600k to sign Giles, $2.5M (at least) to sign Park.

Normally minor deals but because of Romero's suspension and Utley's health status, they become more important. A guy like Bruntlett is likely to get 200-250 ABs this season (instead of a more typical 100-150 ABs for a backup middle INF) and Park is likely to see more innings as he picks up some more in the early going.

I actually thought the Park signing was a good financial move...one that looks better in light of the Romero suspension.

With regard to Romero, I think he's getting screwed. The opunishment does not fit the crime. I don't think he knew what he was taking. But I also think he did NOT do everything he could've done before taking it.

Note the MLPA statement, which does NOT square with Romero's position that they signed off on the drug:
"Some press stories have stated that the Association advised players that the particular supplement J.C. took was safe. Others have suggested that the Association knew, in advance of the positive tests, that this supplement contained a banned substance. Neither is accurate. The Association knew nothing about the particular supplements involved here prior to learning of these positive results."

The MLB drug office, meanwhile, says, players "are given a list of 12 manufacturers that have submitted products that have been tested and approved. They are provided with both a Web site and a 1-800 hotline that answers questions about specific substances."

The supplement JC took and the manufacturer were NOT on the list of approved products and JC did NOT call the hotline before taking 6-OXO.

The statement that "Romero did what could reasonably expected to check the substance out" is FALSE.

Would you rather see them invest 600k on Marcus Giles, who will turn out to be a $0 asset or at best case scenario a $400k player (probably what you'd pay for a replacement level backup infielder) or have thme buy 600k worth of Powerball tickets, so they at least have a chance of winning $100 mil and maybe sign real a player.

You gotta wonder why Marcus didn't even play minor league ball last year. Is he at least playing winter ball? I couldn't find anything at all on what he's been doing. Talk about a long-shot signing.

Pennsylvania PowerBall Odds

1 : 3.25
1 : 123.48
1 : 20.71
1 : 787.17
1 : 359.06
1 : 13,644.24
1 : 19,030.12
1 : 723,144.62
1 : 5,138,133.00
1 : 195,249,056.00

Marcus Giles Odds of ever being worth 600k:

a lot more.

"Its funny how things work.
Marcus Giles hits .229 in 2007 and gets released
Eric Bruntlett hits .217 in 2008 and gets his salary raised to 1million for 2009."

It's logical, actually. There is real value in being able to play most of the positions on the field allegedly well, especially in the era of 12 and 13 man pitching staffs.

The over the counter GNC perfectly legal 6-OXO Extreme produces more "manly" hormones in the body. When Romero pitched in the WS, perspiration from his fingers left some of this hormone on the ball. The pansy Tampa Bay batters were not used to such manly pitches and performed poorly against Romero, giving him two victories in helping the Phillies become the WFC. That's the way I see it!

MG: Is the $600K for Giles guaranteed? I'd be shocked if it is. Certainly, it's contingent on Giles making the team out of ST, no?

I dont believe its guarantted...he's set to make $13K per month in the minors...so its probably $600K if he is on the 25 man roster.

600k of Powerball tickets or Giles . . . tough choice.

If I thought Giles could even be an average/slightly below average player at this point, it would be a surprise.

Maybe the Phils saw something different in-person but there is nothing to indicate the past 2 years that Giles has much left or that there was really much interest in him.

Giles strikes me as a guy that you invite to spring training or maybe strike a deal with his salary being dependent upon making the major league roster.

Uh oh.

"The Associated Press reports that the Mets have extended a contract offer to free agent pitcher Tim Redding."

Hmm, a really good, young player a few years ago who has suddenly run into a brick wall? I can't imagine why that is.

I don't see any harm in this signing, assuming it is not guaranteed money. Depth is good even if, as in this case, it's a long shot.

As clout said without saying it I is pretty obvious what has happened to Giles and most likely his brother as well.

Similar to Jay Bell, Brady Anderson, and Milli Vanilli.

The opposite of Dennis Green's famous rant "they are who we thought they were".

They stopped drinking milk and eating their wheaties...

Maybe they could not find Bret Boone's phone number.

"Hmm, a really good, young player a few years ago who has suddenly run into a brick wall? I can't imagine why that is."

I bet Romero has some recommendations on how to recover his "pop."

Or at least get pregnant.


Incidentally, after clout's more comprehensive post on this thread, as opposed to his ranting about the name, I concur. Romero shoulda known better.

clout, you beat me to it. I just read that on MLBTR also.

Redding to the Mets..............maybe Omar Minaya isn;t as stupid as some of the trolls think.

Redding on the Mets as the #5, given his history of practically owning the Phils:

5-3, with a 3.29 ERA in 11 starts, 1.22 WHIP,

would, IMO, give the Mets a decided advantage in any series vs. the Phils, as they would have a #5 who pitches like a #2 against the boys in bloodstripes.

So, even if the Phils caught the bottom of the Mets rotation in a series................

This is not a good development.

Unless of course the "good run" against the Phillies is pure coincidence and we finally start crushing him like the #5 pitcher he is.

Oh, and Raul Ibanez may not be much help against Redding:

In 7 PA (I know, small sample size) he's 1-6, .167 with one BB, no XBH.

Well, substitute Chase Utley for Romero and we'd be outside Bud Selig's office in Milwaukee like Maximus Decimus Meridius and his Felix Legions looking for blood. I think too much is being made of Juan Carlos' character or lack thereof. Honkeys please.

MPN: you might be right, but as clout's post pointed out, the facts are still rolling out, so its hard to go gung ho for either side yet.

Slight difference between AS 2B who is also a Top 5 player in all of MLB and lefty reliever...no matter how good the lefty reliever is.

This has nothing to do with race or ethnicity.

phaithful: Understood. That is a valid point. I just am frustrated when aspersions are being cast at the guy for past events that don't show anything definitive. Plus I am just cranky today due to weather and lack of sleep.

Redding shouldn't scare the Phillies. The antidote is to rest Rollins and Howard, and play, somewhere, Geoff Jenkins.

The Phillies did have Denny Doyle for a few seasons, who was better than his brother, Brian.

The Phillies did have Denny Doyle for a few seasons, who was better than his brother, Brian.

Rumors that the Mets have made contract offers to Redding and Wolf is great news to me, considering Oliver Perez and Derek Lowe were the other possibilities.

To my mind the Mets' signing of Redding is a fine thing, particularly if it precludes their signing Lowe or Perez. Because, but not just because, if there's one pitcher who baffles the Phils better than Redding it's Perez, who's Johnny two-hitter/10 k's vs. us, year in year out.

But the best reason is the obvious one, that Redding is decidedly inferior to either of the two pitchers mentioned above. If I could have it my way, the Mets would field five Reddings, beat the Phillies to some extrapolated tune of 5 games to 3, and go sub 500 vs. the rest of the league.

Klaus: You beat me to it. Better Redding than O. Perez.

MPN: Who are you? James Traficant?

well, okay, the Mets are looking for two starters. Let's hope they sign Wolf

From Phillies Insider:
"Romero Situation
News that came out this morning was the suspension of J.C. by MLB. Here's our position on the situation:

"As part of the Basic Agreement, the club cannot comment on the specifics or the facts of this matter. However, we can say that we care about JC and appreciate his contribution to our team. We also staunchly support Major League Baseball's drug policy and commend the efforts associated with the program."

Ruben did a conference call with the media but other than this statement, he was unable to comment further regarding specifics of J. C.'s situation."

Last year I said something dismissive about the Rockies hopes when they were forced by circumstance to bring Giles to ST. I remember catching all kinds of flack, including a question about whether I'd really rather choose Kaz Matsui (outgoing Rox 2B) instead. (In retrospect: yeah, I would, clout.)

The point here is not an "I told you so, " however. The point is that a team which makes the WS one year and then seeks out someone like M. Giles with such a dubiously declining skill level is heading toward the shoals at an alarming rate. I've gone from guardedly optimistic to pre-bap-ishly concerned.

Doesn't matter who the Mets sign. Redding od whomever. The Phils aren't signing anyone. Edge Mets

If the Mets are replacing Perez with Wolf, this is likely a slight downgrade. Same for Redding.

A rotation of Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Wolf, and Redding? really isn't one that is much better than the Phils' rotation of Hamels, Myers, Blanton, Moyer, and Happ?

DPatrone: I don't think that's the case if they go from Lowe to Redding. Edge?

Basically the top 3 spots in the Mets' rotation and Phils' rotation were generally pretty even going into the offseason. Phils resigned Moyer for the No. 4 spot and looks like Mets are targeting a second-tier guy like Wolf.

The big difference would be if the Mets get a guy like Lowe who clearly would be a frontline starter and be an upgrade over Perez.

Frankly, I would love to see the Mets acquire Wolf and them have him inevitably run into his annual arm problems. Wolf hasn't pitched 200 innings since 2003 and he is much more likely to break down and give the Mets less than 100 innings than be a guy that gives them close to 30 GS.

drew: Well, I do need a haircut, but no, not him. An odd comparison. Do you have access to the manatees that the writers from Family Guy use to write their scripts?

Somehow, the Mets will have to convince Wolf that Queens is on the west cost. Right? I mean, that's why he wouldn't come back to the Phils.

Contract I would love to see at MetsBlog in the next few days:

Mets ink Wolf to 2-year/$13M deal.

DPatrone: So the Phillies replaced Jamie Moyer with Jamie Moyer, and the Mets are going to replace Oliver Perez with Tim Redding, so advantage Mets? Ok.

The Phillies replaced Pat Burrell with Raul Ibanez, and the Mets replaced Fernando Tatis with Fernando Tatis? So advantage Mets there too?

Please. Stop whining. The "woe is me bc my world champion team may not spend quite as much as their choking rivals" act is tiring.

MPN: I don't have access to the manatees.

I only brought up Traficant because of this quote of his:

"When I get out I will grab a sword like Maximus Meridius Demidius and as a Gladiator I will stab people in the crotch."

No other reason. I just thought it was funny.

The Mets rotation as it currently exists:

#1-Santana
#2-
#3-Pelfrey
#4-Maine
#5-

If they signed Redding, he'd be their 5th starter. I guess you could argue Pelfrey is a #2, but last season was his first full season as a starter (ERA+ 113). We'll see if he can maintain that. Maine is a pretty big injury question who was merely league average last year. Tim Redding posted a stellar ERA+ of 89 in 2008. If Randy Wolf is their other signing, that's great news for the Phils. Wolf hasn't been league average since 2005.

Hah! I hadn't seen that quote. Thanks for flagging that up for me! (Imdb.com, for those interested, is the best for transcribed movie quotes.)

M. Giles is an interesting mix to the clubhouse. Like JW, Giles played a big role on some of my successful fantasy teams just a few years ago. But his downward slide seemed to coincide with the ban on amphetamines and tightening of steroid use policies; not surprising to anybody who has watched a hyperactive Giles jumping around in the Braves dugout or on the field. M. Giles, in my book, was exhibit A for greenies use.

That said, there's the possibility that he's worked diligently on playing without greenies; something that takes a body at least a year to two years to adjust to. Maybe the Phillies can reap the benefits if he's finally learned to play well without crutches. of course, there could be the realization that without PEDs, he's just not that good.

He wasn't that good before them, either. He was drafted in the 53rd round.

bob - Or maybe he's into Red Bull now.

Marcus Giles could give us a solid utility guy/RH pinch hitter. At least he "plays the game the right way". This makes Chris Coste even more expendible. So why did we resign Bruntlett again?

So what about Jason Donald? If we don't need him right away, I'd keep him at SS, in case Jimmy regresses. With two years remaining on J-Roll's deal, it makes sense to groom an alternative.

baxter: We have NO ONE at third base. Why wouldn't we move Donald there?

Bax - Maybe I am missing something. Why does taking a flyer on Giles make our backup cather more expendible? Don't think Coste was going to make the team as a backup infielder. Also not sure how Giles "plays the game the right way" with all these links to roids.

Giles sucks. He is just insurance if Bruntlet gets hurt in spring training.

If Wolf signs with the Mets perhaps he can resume his search for that woman he saw/met on the NY subway a few years ago...

Bed beard & Brian G~

See this is what I mean. The Phils are standing pat. The Mets 'pen got better. That's where they lost the division last year. Each year for the last few, the Phils could have taken a strangle-hold on the division just by signing top-notch players who can play.

As I said yesterday, If you listen by reading and paying attention, where is the RH bat, starter and reliever Amaro was suppossed to get? The answer is he got none of them. I don't want to hear about players like M. Giles and Park. They are not upgrades to the team.

I've explained the reasons behind the Ibanez signing. Moyer and Eyre were expected to re-sign and they did. Amaro has NOT improved this team Minaya HAS improved the Mets. IF and UNTIL Amaro does what he is supposed to do, that's my stance. End of debate.

Coste was our RH pinch hitter. Giles could do the same, while playing more positions.

Okay maybe Giles won't make the team, but he was pretty good only two years ago, and he's not that old.

I was just thinking Bruntlett and Giles have no trade value whatsoever, while Coste has some. Maybe Coste could fetch us a lefthander capable of throwing strikes.

Ok, let's see:
1. We need "top-notch players who can play".. whatever that means.
2. I need to "listen by reading and paying attention" (whatever that means), so that I understand that DPatrone set the Phillies agenda each offseason and is angry that Amaro hasn't followed through with what he wants.
3. The Mets have upgraded by going to the three man rotation CJ listed.
4. This ends the debate.

Got it.

Rather than being a knee-jerk FO apologist like Brian G, the way to gauge the Mets rotation is to compare it to the rotation of 2008.

That rotation: Santana-Pelfrey-Perez-Maine-Martinez.

Assuming the Redding-Wolf rumors are right, the new rotation: Santana-Pelfrey-Wolf-Maine-Redding.

Wolf is a downgrade from Perez, but Perez was no ace. His ERA+ was 100. Redding is an upgrade over Pedro (ERA+ of 75).

DPatrone: Puh-leeeze.

The Phils took a stranglehold on baseball last year... it's called a World F-in Champsionship.

The Mets went from Billy Wagner to K-Rod. Putz is an upgrade... but that's about it.

Where else have the Mets upgraded? They have a three-man pitching rotation, Luis Castillo at 2nd and Fernando Tatis in LF. Color me unimpressed with the awesome abilities of Omar Minaya.

baxter: What are these "positions" that Giles can play?

I take issue with Chan Ho Park not being an upgrade. He's a better long reliever than Clay Condrey. However, an upgrade at long-reliever doesn't invalidate your point.

I know Ollie Perez is beloved on this board, but the other thing to remember about him is that he was as maddeningly inconsistent as always and won exactly 10 games for the mighty Mets. In other words, one game less than the despised Kyle Kendrick.

BTW, speaking of Chan Ho, this is from David Murphy today: "Chan Ho Park made it clear that he signed with the Phillies for one reason: To be a starter."

clout: I think of myself more as knee-jerk anti-stupidity or anti-irrationality. That usually comes in the form of bile spewed in the direction of the FO for doing things like not spending like the Yankees, so that's what I respond to. A lot of message boards can become stupid quickly when there's not quality control on that sort of thing. I can see CJ, hardly the FO apologist, agrees.
You should be able to relate, as you darn near have a conniption anytime a poster suggests Carlos Carrasco should open the season in the big league rotation. That's what bothers you most, and this is what bothers me.

Brian G: I have no problem at all with Carrasco opening the season in the rotation if he wins the job in ST. My problem is with posters who act like that's a slam dunk. I do agree with the rest of your post.

Clout: 2nd and 3rd

Would you disagree that the Phils could use help at those positions? Or that Giles is a better hitter than Bruntlett? I'm not predicting a return to All-Star form, but if Giles can hit .250, he'd upgrade our bench.

Giles's 162 game career avg numbers are great, as I'm sure you know. Mark DeRosa wasn't better at the same age, and everyone wanted him. I just don't see the downside to this move. We've done alright with reclamation projects in the past.

Clout: Park's comment about starting has more to do with self-confidence than his actual role. Happ, Eaton, Carrasco and Kendrick will also tell you they plan to start for the Phillies. Chad Durbin also came here for a chance to start.

Maybe Amaro lied to Chan Ho Park, to get him to sign, but I doubt he's guaranteed a place in the rotation. Even if he is, he certainly doesn't have much room for error. I'm sure the Phillies care more about winning than keeping Chan Ho Park happy.

Besides, Park's contract is packed with bonuses that depend on him starting. Why would he agree to that deal if we told him he wasn't going to start? Also, you think they really want him to reach those contractual benchmarks? He'll get a chance, maybe the inside track, but assuming Park's spot in the rotation is safe is just ridiculous.

considering the price and the fact that this contract is not guaranteed, I don't hate this signing -- but there has to be better option. Has Tad Iguchi signed anywhere? He was a great backup before a much better plan for any extended Chase absence, plus he would have given us an ok righthanded bat off the bench. My opintion to this Giles signng is, meh ...

clout: You're not suggesting wins is the best measure for O. Perez, are you?

Sure, he's maddeningly inconsistent, but if they replace him with Wolf, it's a downgrade. Perez's last two ERA+'s were 120 and 100. Wolf's were 97 and 93. Perez will be 27 and Wolf will be 32.

And Tim Redding's ERA+ of 89 last year was pretty much right at his career number of 88. I suppose it's an upgrade over Pedro Martinez, but they're just replacing an old bad pitcher with a young bad pitcher.

BobWalk: Tad Iguchi received a 3-year offer worth more than $6M to go back to Japan. He won't find an offer near that anywhere in MLB.

I don't see Carrasco winning the job out of spring training, but I do see him dominating AAA in a way that the Phillies are forced to find a spot for him in the rotation to replace a(n) struggling / ineffective / injured Kendrick, Happ, or Park by the first of June. I hope that my opinion does not lead to any conniptions and or coronaries.

Clout - But you are assuming that Wolf gives the Mets around 30 starts or close to 200 innings. Given that he has only done this once in the past four years, I am willing to bet that Perez will be better than Wolf in 2009 (although it depends on the contract he gets long-term).

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