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Friday, January 23, 2009

Comments

...or, two sentences.

I really don't want to see Kevin Millar, but he's exactly the type of player we'd sign.

JW

you are already 0-1
Grudzielanek
and
Grudzielank

Alou is much easier

As a Phillie fan in exile in the DC area I'd love to see Kevin Millar. A good hitter who could spell Ryan against the odd devastating lefty like Randy Johnson.

That's good news that nobody in this negotiation is pissed off...yet. I'd love to believe that the Phils can sign the big guy long term but I've already made my peace with the fact that we will lose him some time in the next few years. I am one of those that want the Phillies to keep him at (almost) any cost. And yes I am fully aware of his shortcomings. But if, like they say, chicks dig the long ball then I must be in touch with my feminine side.

Haha. Normally I'd go back and fix that, but I'll leave it. Hammers home the point.

From last thread

Clout: Yes, considering just the players exchanged without regard to any context whatsoever is just foolish. You know that.

Do you think the Indians got full value for CC Sabathia? Chances are, based just on players, they won't. However, was it still a good trade because they would have lost Sabathia for nothing otherwise? Yes. Why on Earth would you tray and judge trades without considering that sort of context? It's idiotic.

Ignoring context in trades IS foolish. Circumstances exist all the time that force a team's hand. And in those cases, a team must attempt to get as much value as possible.

It IS possible to make a good trade without getting equal value for what you are trading away.

I know this may be a foreign concept to some, but it's actually possible.

Grudz (see, you just have to make up a nickname for him) is a decent IF bat though...not alot of power but good contact...especially against leftys.

CJ: It's not a foreign concept to anyone. Clout and others know exactly what we're saying. They're simply creating a totally irrelevant question in order to keep this fictitious debate going. Everyone on here agrees with what you just said, and no one is actually stupid enough to evaluate trades without considering their context.

Jack: The last line of my comment was my best attempt at a clout impersonation :-)

At the risk of being attacked by several of you, would you PLEASE let the whole "did we get the fuzzy end of the lollipop with the Thome trade" die? That horse was beaten to death over a year ago. Or at least post when you'll actually stop arguing about it so I can come back to Beerleaguer at that time to read your usually insightful, educational, and entertaining posts. Thank you.

Ben Sheets is meeting with the Rangers and Wolf may be headed to LA. That pretty much leaves the Mets to choose between Jon Garland and Oliver Perez for their #2 starter, leaving the #5 starter to be a competition between Tim Redding, Jon Niese and Freddy Garcia.

Kutztown Fan: That's the best post of the day. I could hurl at this point.

My order of preference:
1)Nomar
2)Grudzielanek
3)Alou
4)Aurilia
5)Millar

Alou would've made more sense if we didn't sign Ibanez or trade Golson.(we'd need GG's speed and defense)

I'd just focus on signing the big man. Who cares if our payroll matches that of the suddenly broke Mets? Its not like we bought a championship, we're just locking up homegrown talent.

I think alou aould be a great signing for a bench role, but i don't think he'd go for it..he wants to start.

Kutztown fan: Thanks. I typed a similar post, but deleted it. If anyone feels further symptoms of Thome-Abreu psychosis, please seek professional assistance.

The dude can flat out hit.

I hope the Asst GMs are giving out the straight info on the team's willingness to do a long term deal with Big Ryan.
At least through his arb years so we can skip this annual drama .
Much ore optimistic about the Amaro Jr era than I was when his appointment was announced.

If I had to choose one of those RH bats, it would be either Millar or Nomar.

I really don't have a preference, and wuite frankly don't see any of them as that big of a difference maker.

Seriously, who would the RH bat pinch hit for? Howard, late in the game? Chollie has never done that.

IMO, adding either Sheets and/or Cruz would have much more of an impact than adding a part-time bat.

I know, Junior said yesterday the money isn't there, but it's nice to dream once in a while.

Unless Junior was just posturing........

Ideally, the right handed bench bat would be capable of playing left field on occasion if Ibanez struggles against lefties or if he just needs a rest. It may be, however, that Charlie embraces the wealth of lefties on the roster and starts Dobbs far more frequently, employing Feliz as his righty off the bench. He seems to have a good makeup for that role. Kinda Jay Johnstone-like in his penchant for hacking.

Aurilia is probably the most interesting name off the list. Two years ago, I saw him enough during Giants' games and he just looked thoroughly washed up at the plate and in the field. Only reason the Giants brought him back was because he was signed to another year at decent dollars and it is not exactly like the Giants' INF was filled any much talent last year.

Instead, Aurilia came into camp into good shape and wound up quietly have a decent year as kind of a jack-of-trades for the Giants. Started so much because the Giants' INF was so woeful and wound up getting 400 ABs.

At this point though, it is probably a total crap shoot what Aurilia would give a team this year with 200-250 ABs. My bet is somehow between his 2007 and 2008 numbers. Lets say something like .260/.315/.400. Nothing amazing but a capable backup and RH-bat off the bench who could play all of the INF positions if necessary.

Still kind of baffles me why the Phils resigned Bruntlett to a guaranteed deal. Almost a certainity with this market that if the Phils hadn't resigned him that he would have been lucky to get a guaranteed MLB deal.

More likely he would have gotten a minor league deal with a salary very close to the veteran league minimum if he had a made a MLB roster during the season.

Alou is interesting in the fact that he can flat out hit when healthy. Issue is that I don't think he could stay healthy if he is required to play in the field much at all as the Mets found out the past 2 years. Even as a DH, I don't know if Alou could stay healthy but maybe an AL team will take a flyer on him as a part-time DH/RH-bat off the bench.

My bet is that no one does and that he retires in the next month.

Simplest reason: Bruntlet is a KNOWN quantity. There's no other reason they resigned him. They easily could have replaced him with no issues in this market.

A month or two of a healthy Alou(that may be pushing it) would be worth a year signing i think. Having a hitter of that talent for just that period of time would be a huge pickup for the team, especially vs those elite lefty starters and an automatic counter to any LOOGY thrown at us in late games. If you can get him on a milloin dollar deal, then i think that'd be worth it.

Jack: "Still, the idea of who got more value judged solely on the players exchanged...is pointless."

Fascinating comment. So a team could repeatedly make trades in which it got less value in terms of players and that would be pointless to note since it's irrelevant to the team's success?

P.S. Several posters have agreed that the value of players involved in a trade is an appropriate way to evaluate a trade. It's beyond bizarre to suggest it isn't.

A few more of these geezers and the team might as well open an assisted living home right inside the Bank.

On most teams, Bruntlett would be the 24/25 man on the roster and that wouldn't matter all the much. He likely gets 125-150 ABs tops and not a ton of PH appearances.

The way the Phils' current roster is constructed though Bruntlett is more important because of the injury concerns regarding Utley/Feliz, the lack of RH-bats on the roster, and Cholly's penchant for going to his bench early and often. If Bruntlett manages to stay healthy and on the roster for the entire season, I could easily see him get close to 250 ABs and make his share of starts too.

I would rather see a player like Aurilia on the roster than Bruntlett but that isn't likely going to happen. Same for an additional bat of the bench in the INF. Phils settled their INF when they resigned Bruntlett and brought in a few guys on minor league deals including Giles.

Frankly I would be very surprised if a Nomar or an Aurilia ends up here.

clout: No one is suggesting that a team would repeatedly make trades receiving less talent without regards to a team's success. Although, the Phils seemed to excel at making trades without receiving fair value and they've now won a World Series... so maybe your premise is wrong.

The point, however, is that the success of the trade can NOT always be determined simply by evaluating the value of the players invovled.

Choice #1: Let Star Pitcher walk at the end of the season and maybe get a #1 draft pick and a sandwich pick for him (maybe a #2 if the new team has a protected #1).

Choice #2: Deal Star Pitcher for an established top prospect and two other solid prospects.

In a vacuum, baseball people would those three prospects don't come close to the value of Star Pitcher. Was it a bad trade?

I'm going to kind of agree and disagree with MG here on some things.

Aurilia is the name that intrigues me most as well from that list (outside of Nomar). He can play all four infiled positions to varying degrees. He also by all accounts is a good clubhouse guy. If you signed him you're bench would basically be: a backup catcher, Dobbs, 4th outfielder, and then two guys who between them can cover 5 or 6 of the fielding positions. It gives you a ton of flexibility should something happen that Howard or Utley needs to make a 15 day DL trip.

On Bruntlett, I certainly don't think he is worth what he is getting but I think he is worth more to the team than league minimum. He has some speed, and gives you outfield felxibility. Also, I know some don't beleive in clubhouse cemistry stuff but I do. Bruntlett just seems to fit the team, and the town. Scruffy guy, blue collar player, does a bunch of things. I think maybe the Phillies figured they could pay a little more to keep a guy they know works with this team rather than spend less cash to bring in a guy who may not give them what they need.

CJ: "Was it a bad trade?"

Depends on how the various prospects turn out.

clout: Do you mean... it depends how those prospects received in trade turn out compared to the prospects that would have been received in the extra draft picks?

Or is it the prospects vs. the player traded?

clout: And does that mean we can't effectively evaluate the Thome trade until we see how Gio Gonzalez turns out?

If we do sign Gruds...Gruzd...Gurdz...whatever
I'm sure we could come up with a short hand nickname soon enough to save your fingers.

Of course it could end up being something like Krudzialanick

Which would be better than G(IDP)rudzielanek.

MG: I've said this before but I really get a kick out of your vendetta against Bruntlett. Not to say I don't see where you're coming from, but it's just funny bc you seem to be the sole person truly upset about him.
As for why he's on the team, I think the Phillies like him in the "better the devil you know" sense. Last year he showed competency at multiple defensive positions(saved Lidge's perfect season with a diving stop against the Mets) and to be a good pinch runner(won us WS game 3 with his legs). We brought in So Taguchi last year to do some of that, and then we'd bring him in as a defensive replacement and he'd drop easy fly balls. The certainty Bruntlett brings in the two skill sets I mentioned may outweigh the downgrade be brings in his very limited pinch hitting opportunities.

Andy & Hawk-
How about " G other dude "

"How about " G other dude ""

Well, it would increase his trade value.

CJ: "And does that mean we can't effectively evaluate the Thome trade until we see how Gio Gonzalez turns out?"

To totally close the book on that trade, yes. But that does not stop us from evaluating the trade on the performance of the players to date.

Let me for a moment use the criteria that you and Jack use to judge trades. After 2006, the Phillies had lost Wolf to free agency and Lidle to trade and were desperate for starting pitching. Gavin Floyd had been a failure so the Phils packaged him and Gio Gonzalez and dealt them for Freddy Garcia. Under CJ/Jack criteria this was a good trade. The circumstances required the Phillies to make a move. Plus, when Garcia got hurt, it gave an opportunity to Kyle Kendrick, who went 10-4, 3.87. Therefore the Garcia trade was a good one for the Phillies.

Brian G: Bruntlett "won us WS game 3 with his legs."

An average major leaguer couldn't have done that?

clout: Maybe. Or maybe he would have stood there petrified not straying more than two feet off 1st base. We KNOW Bruntlett can be effective in that role.

Alou can really hit, even still, but he's always getting hurt. You sign him and he'll only be available half the season.

The ideal baseball bench in the NL consists of a backup catcher, a utility infielder, a utility outfielder, a fast baserunner, and a power bat from left and right sides. Obviously 2 or more players need to fill multiple roles. The way I see it, the Phillies have Coste or Paulino as their backup catcher, Bruntlett as their utility infielder and fast baserunner, and Jenkins is their utility outfielder and Dobbs the left handed power bat. Coste is not gonna cut it as a righty power bat, nor will Bruntlett, so signing a righty bat makes sense. That's all for the "duh" department, now things get interesting.

I define a bench power bat as a hitter who has good slugging numbers against pitchers from the opposite site. Since I'm mainly using him for pinch hitting situations, his numbers against pitchers from the same side mean fairly little to me. That means I'd like to see the best hitter against lefties be signed by the Phillies. It shouldn't be the only criterion, but it should be the main one. The five guys listed are Alou, Grudzielanek, Millar, Garciaparra, and Aurilia. Here's a breakdown of their Career OPS against lefties followed by the OPS against lefties for 2008, 2007, 2006

Alou: 959/1072/1056/1093
Grudzielanek: 760/982/844/688
Millar: 804/736/806/722
Garciaparra:900/1067/611/1020
Aurilia: 836/903/676/1086

Now, since this should be our bench righty, the big winner is clearly Alou by the numbers. But, as we've all pointed out, he's very old and most likely will be injured. Frankly I think the man should retire, given that he can't still healthy for a full season, and I don't see how he'll do so on the bench because he'll still have to warm up and do exercises every game.

I'd pass on the man for 1 reason: we've got 2 downed infielders and should have a backup just in case. And that's what should be considered at this point: what if Utley or Feliz aren't ready for spring training or opening day? We'll need somebody to step in, and Bruntlett is not good enough to fill those shoes.

Millar I'd rule out because he's been hitting progressively worse as he's played in Baltimore. The man is not the hitter he once was, moreover I think we need a passable bat to cover 2B if Utley is still not ready and he can only play 1B, DH, or LF these days.

Garciaparra is another injury liability like Alou. He was getting hurt playing first for the Dodgers. 1B is arguably the least physically demanding position to play. Do you really expect him to play SS or 2B? As a purely bench bat, he'd be fine, but I don't think he'll make it through spring if he has to play middle infield.

Aurilia's a defensive liability and inconsistent with the bat, not to mention he's abysmal against righties. I'd pass on him given the choice.

That leaves Grudzielanek. He's got the least pop out of everyone here, and I have no idea how he is defensively. He is the most consistent hitter of the bunch in that he seems to put up a 290AVG 340/350 OBP nearly every year,and from the looks of his stats he's not an injury liability like Nomar or Alou. He's not a power hitter though, so as a bat of the bench, he's a less than ideal choice.

So who would I pick? At this point, no one, and Millar and Aurilia would definitely not be my choice no matter what. If I were Ruben Amaro, I'd wait another month, see how Utley's doing with his recovery. If Chase should be ready on opening day, I'd take a chance with Alou or Nomar because they're the best righty power bats, even if they can't play everyday. If it looks like Utley won't be ready for April, then I'd probably sign Grudzielanek to start until Chase is healthy.

Waiting to be ripped apart...

The most important factor in judging a trade is how much it increases your chances of winning a World Series at some point. The Thome trade did improve our chances, but the Garcia trade didn't. So Thome trade was good, Garcia trade bad.

Oh, and Grudz is reputedly quite the clubhouse mensch - for whatever that sort of thing is worth, anyway.

Godfather: Based on your criterion of "a hitter who has good slugging numbers against pitchers from the opposite side", Mayberry could probably enter the discussion, as its my understanding that he destroys lefties, of course only at the minor league level at this point.

grud-ziel-a-nek

I don't understand why you guys prefer Aurilia(.330 OBP) to Grudzielanek (.400 OBP). Aurilia might have slightly more pop, but Grudzielanek is a better fielder and more consistent hitter.

I might even put Grudzielanek over Nomar.

Grudzielanek is the best defensively, by far. He won the 2006 Gold Glove for 2B and still plays the middle infield. He's sorta a superutility guy.

clout: No. You're putting words in my mouth. Just because circumstances exist, that doesn't mean a trade is the only answer.

And in that case, I don't think circumstances dictated a trade. We started that season with Myers, Hamels, Eaton, Lieber and Moyer. Five competant starting pitchers.

Aren't you guys interested in this off-season?

I am not enamered with any of the RH bats they're talking about. They're all about the same and would be the 25th guy. I don't see an improvement to the club. Phils are probably maxed out on payrol so I wouldn't count on Sheets or Cruz either. The other day I suggessted Andruw 'cause he's only gonna cost the minimum but it dosen't appear that they're looking at him.

baxter: What's to discuss? The relative merits of Alou vs. Garciaparra? I find that to be even more dull. To each their own!

Well, it is fun to have a team where you need to worry about the 25th man in the offseason rather than who's gonna be in LF, or close games, or be the third, fourth and fifth starters. Of course, if we got a better 25th man than So or Brunlett then we could really focus on the all important dissection of the Abreu/Thome deals.

Clout: The Garcia trade was one many considered to be good at the time. I was ambivalent on it because I still believed that Floyd could be an impact pitcher and I knew Gio Gonzales was a good prospect. It quite clearly turned out not to be a good deal because Garcia was awful. Also, as CJ points out, we already had good starters, and Cole Hamels waiting in the minors. We didn't need to make that deal.

The Thome trade was quite clearly different, as we've endlessly pointed out, and it turned out to be a very good one because Rowand turned out well and it opened up a spot for Ryan Howard, who was quite clearly better than Jim Thome in those couple years. You would have liked to have seen Howard in Triple A those year? Or maybe you would have switched Thome back to 3rd base, considering you don't think defense matters there?

The point is all trades are different. Some can be judged solely by the players' exchanged performance. Golson vs. Mayberry, for example, will come down to who (if either) contributes more successfully at the MLB level. The Thome trade HAS to be considered in context, and to leave Howard's performance and the lack of leverage Gillick had out of any evaluation reveals a stunning lack of analytical depth or understanding. I simply refuse to believe you actually think what you're saying. If you do, then you are far dumber than I took you for.

Jack: "Still, the idea of who got more value judged solely on the players exchanged...is pointless."

So a team could repeatedly make trades in which it got less value in terms of players and that would be pointless to note since it's irrelevant to the team's success?

Jack: What makes you think there were no other offers for Thome?

Problem with both Grudz and Millar is that they absolutely both rot as pinch-hitters. Sorry. Gotta say
1) Nomah
2) Moises
3) Aurilia
4 - 23) pause
24) Grudz
25 - 348) big pause
349) Willie Montanez
350) Ed Delahan...wait; scratch him off...
350) Millar

clout: "So a team could repeatedly make trades in which it got less value in terms of players and that would be pointless to note since it's irrelevant to the team's success?"

Yes. As the Phils have demonstrated from terrible trade after terrible trade (Rolen, Schilling, Thome, Garcia), it's not relevant to the team's success. World F'in Champsionship. :-D

I wouldn't be so sure, Mets Suck. I read an article the other day where Omar was crying pour mouth about their budget. They may only have enough money to sign Perez if they are lucky.

And we all know how well guarantees work out for the Mets these last few years.

Sorry, in my post above I meant to address Phils Suck. Freudian slip.

"terrible trade after terrible trade"

Heck, you don't know the half of it. A couple of years ago people on this board were reaming Gillick for every little personnel move he made. I even remember frequent lists summarizing all the terrible moves Gillick had made. I remember copious crying over the loss of forgotten AAAA names, or even for some single A "prospect" sent to Seattle for Moyer. And, of course, all hell broke loose whenever Gillick had the nerve to move any guy on the 25 man roster.

Then lo and behold, the Phils are in the playoffs, not once but twice. All of a sudden, Gillick got a lot smarter. Or maybe without all of the awful trades identified by the Junior GMs, the Phils would have won 110 games a year and 2 WFCs.

I wouldn't mind Alou but I have this sneaking suspicion that he'll want to start at least half the games if he signs. Millar would have been a decent pickup if this were 2003. Same with Garciaparra. Aurillia intrigues me because I still think he has some pop, more so than Bruntlett. Grudzilanik (sp?) doesn't impress me. I know we need a right handed bat, but I would rather just keep Stairs if these are our options.

I'm surprised no one has made the obvious Rocky IV reference (DRAGO!!!!!)

The trade argument is getting kind of old. The phillies got less value because of the circumstances, but they still got less value in the trade which is all clout is arguing.
Just like the Abreau trade. The guy was an awesome hitter and we got nothing for him but salary relief.(and some dudes) To the phillies, it was a valuable deal because it's their money. To us it sucked because they traded a good player for nothing (some dudes) to save money. They should of been able to get more for him, or just kept him.

johnnysanz3: I think there's a big difference between the Thome deal and the Abreu deal. I'm not sure many people here would put them in the same category.

Circumstances really forced the Thome deal. The Phils elected to deal Abreu... circumstances had little to do with it.

And the only way to argue the Abreu trade was a success is to attribute some kind of mystical good juju from ridding ourselves of Abreu.

johnny/ cj, are you saying that a team could repeatedly make trades in which it got less value in terms of players and that would be pointless to note since it's irrelevant to the team's success?

I think the point is this: that in the event of a trade between Teams X and Y, it's possible to say that Y got better value but that X nevertheless made a good trade.

Which implies this: that getting better value is NOT a necessary condition of a "good trade". It's only sufficient.

I was inspired by the guarantee from Team Premature Gloat to visit their website and check out their roster.

Saw that if Niese and/or Kunz make the team again, they'll have a player or players on their roster born after their last WFC.

Clout: Both Thome and Gillck discussed publicly at the time that Thome would only waive his NTC to the White Sox and Cubs. The Cubs had Derrek Lee and no waiver from the NL to allow the DH.

What makes you think that Thome would have waived his no trade clause to allow other offers? Maybe your poor assessment of the White Sox offer could have done the trick?

East F, excellent point.

I started to realize how classless and annoying Mets fans were in 2006, when they started showing up at the Zen.

One of the idiots started chanting "1980", obviously in reference to the last time the Phillies had won the WS.

I and the people with me looked at each other incredulously. We couldn't believe the guy was so un-original - a cheap imitation of the Yankees' fans chant prior to 2004.

But then, that pretty much describes Mets' fans, and the trolls that show up here:

Clueless, uncreative, unimaginative cheap imitations of Yankee fans.


The troll who styles himself "Phils Suck" merely displays the vacuous stupidity of this group. It really is amusing.

The Phillies just won the WFC and he shows up here using that moniker. What a genius!!!


"1986".

Of the list of guys that the Phillies are interested in signing as RH bats, I would be interested in Aurillia and Alou. Grudz is better than them, but I don't think he will have to take a 25th man role on a team with good infielders.
Aurillia would be my 1st choice and Bruntlett would be cut (guarantee or no guarantee). Aurillia kills lefties. Alou would be my 2nd choice, but i think he would cost more money and get hurt the minute he had to leg out a hit.

With age apparently being thrown out the window. Why not Ray Durham? Just as old and a switch hitter.

None of the RH bats named do much for me. I still wonder what it might take to pry Nick Swisher away from the Yankees, who have let it be known they want to move him. Swisher is a switch-hitter who can play all 3 OF positions and 1B. He's got some power and gets on base. I believe he's signed for 3 more years at around $7 mil/yr, which also gives the Phillies another option if they feel they have to trade Howard.
Not sure what the Yankees would want, perhaps too much, but it would be worthwhile to take a look. He's coming off a somewhat down year, so the price tag might be ok. I think it's better than the names I've seen so far as the RH bat/backup LF solution.
What could the Phils reasonably offer?

Just because the Phils might play Bruntlett at several positions doesn't mean he is adequate at all of them. He is adequate at SS and probably at 2B. In LF or 3B, I would state that he isn't even adequate defensively.

Just watch Bruntlett this year this spring and this year if he plays in LF. Unless the ball is a clear pop-up or a lazy flyball, he will likely have trouble misjudging the ball off the bat and take a horrible route to the ball. Also, guaranteed he hits the cutoff man on a bounce too or a pretty errant throw on something hit to the gap or down the line.

Sadly, I am willing to bet the Bruntlett is going to be used again as a defensive replacement at times with Ibanez in LF. Once something gets ingrained in Cholly's managerial repore, he general sticks with it. Even Ibanez is weak defensively, this move will make no sense just as it did all of last season either.

As for Bruntlett's offense, it is painful to give a give a guy who will be hard pressed to hit more than .230 with an .SLG that might not even be north of .300 (that is incredibly bad) about 225-250 ABs again.

Basically, I had a running joke with my dad if Bruntlett would hit a GB to the left-side or right-side of the INF last year especially against somebody who threw with some gas.

I guess it comes down to that fact that I was always amazed at how people defended starting Nunez who was one of the worst Phils' players to put on a uniform in the past 25 years or so. Utterly useless as an offensive player and people acted like he was Brooks Robinson at 3B. Adequate sure but he was a middle INF who couldn't even really play SS anymore.

At least Bruntlett isn't going to be a starter everyday until he will likely get a bunch of PT again this year early on and get a bunch of PH appearances as a right-handed bat off the bench.

MG- I'm no fan of the gnome but, he ain't no worse than Luis Aguayo. There's a name for his type. It's utility infielder - emphasis on utility. LIke a f*&kin swiss army knife. It does everything, but nothing particularly well. If we're lucky, Giles rebounds from his greenie/steroid hangover and makes the phillies eat Bruntlett's salary or sell him to Japan.

George - Henry, Monasterios, Smith and Sanchez. And we want a pitcher, too.

Does anyone know if J.A. Happ has any minor league options left. I was just thinking if somehow Adam Eaton made the 5th starter, would they be able to send Happ back to Allentown ?

Luis Aguayo is pretty bad but he wasn't as quite as bad as Nunez nor was he used nearly as much as a starter either.

Actually quite a few good candidates through from the late 80s/early 90s and late 90s.

Is an a thought - if the Phils manage to win another NL East title, this is the golden age of Phils' baseball? I would have to say so.

There ia no way on earth the Phillies bring back Adam Eaton. 5th sarter? Come on.

I have never seen a veteran player treated as shabby as Eaton during the playoffs. Sent home? Damn. They're hoping he is too embarrased to show up, so they can recoup a couple 100k in a buy-out.

They will cut him as soon as he shows up at spring training.

We just signed Damon Hollins to compete for the 5th OF spot. Mets signed Rob Mackowiak, who I've always liked.

The interesting that is that while the Phils really haven't improved at all this offseason in terms of personal, neither have the Mets.

Yeah, yeah they got KRod but Wagner wasn't too shabby last year. It was only when he went down that the Mets didn't have an adequate replacement. Granted they probably sign another starter but still leaves a rotation that really is hard impressed to improve over last year. Putz would be the one guy the Mets didn't quite have although the Mets might not have quite the same depth this year in the pen either.

If the Mets are able to sign a quality bat to play LF or sign a guy like Hudson to start at 2B, then they clearly have improved but otherwise I don't see an area where you can point to and say that the Mets will have much greater production this year.

I'm really hoping that the Mets don't sign Oliver Perez and I'm surprised Mets fans aren't making a bigger deal about him being unsigned. In 4 starts against the Phils last year he had an absurd 0.35 ERA.

Will; Adam Eaton will not pitch again for the phils even if they have to eat 8 million for his last year. The phillies FO didn't even want him around for the playoffs.the 5th spot will most likely go to Kendrick unless he implodes in spring training and in that case Happ will be the guy until after the all star break then they will bring Carrasco in.

While I don't advocate it, don't be surprised if Eaton is given every opportunity to win the 5th starter's job in ST. I bet the Phils would rather not just eat his salary.

I'd like to see Myers extended as well. No harm in that. There's gotta be somebody better out there for a Rh bat than the names they've floated doesn't there?

new thread is up.

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