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Thursday, January 08, 2009


Good Morning!

There was a time last season when I was actually leaving the TV room when Madson came in.

That changed!

Have a great day.

I am glad to hear such good things said about the R-Phils. I attended games in the Joe Buzas era and recall him basically giving the team to Craig Stein 20 years ago. I must admit some nostalgia for the sound of foul balls bouncing off cars and drinking 50 cent beers on the grass mound near the left field pole. Still, Reading Municipal and the team look a heck of a lot better today.

Interesting group. I only attended the Winter Tour once with my dad about several years and it was a good event for a good cause.

ah the reading phils - always had a blast at those games. I remember one of my friends through some relative knew a dugout attendent and he used to get used/broken bats after the game, which at the time might have been the coolest thing in the entire world.

Good Luck with the interviews JW. Ask them why Dong Lein is still employeed and if current players will ever veiw him as compenent asset to the team.

Regarding the last thread:

Mike77phillies: I know I'm just getting sucked into your web of being a useless troll but I have a few minutes before I have to get my workday in gear so I'll bite for now.

I appreciate you quoting me but let's get them right. You were wrong twice. The one was saying were I said you were, "very smart." I'll attribute that to you just being ridiculous and having no real argument.

The other one though is where I feel you need some educational guidance. My statement was, "My dark horse for the roster would be Slayden if we weren't already deep with lefties in the outfield. He's a little older but has posted a good line over his minor league career .294/.377/.480."

You responded with this: "That's funny too. He started the discussion by stating that Jeremy Slayden "is my dark horse to make the roster THIS season". Who is Slayden going to beat out Ibanez, Jenkins, Stairs or Dobbs. You are genius, truth injection."

First, I feel you need to know exactly what a dark horse is. It means, a little known person who is unexpectedly successful. The term implies that the person has an outside chance. Using that term doesn't mean you are guaranteeing they will do anything.

Secondly, my statement said Slayden would be a dark horse, if we weren't already stocked with lefties. With that provision I was acknowledging that the Phillies were already loaded with guys similar to Slayden and we don't need another left-handed bat in the outfield. Where in my statement did I say he would beat out Ibanez, Stairs, Dobbs or Jenkins? In fact, from my statement I'm implying he wouldn't beat any of them out and their mere presence was a main reason Slayden wouldn't make the team.

The only thing you got right was the last sentence of your statement. But hey, 33% right is an upgrade for you- so good job.

On this thread: That is a definitely an odd mix of people to be out on this.

Amazingly, I kind of agree with Mikes77 on this. Slayden doesn't do anything for me, whereas Mayberry I think can develop into the RH bat off the bench we clearly need. Clout may be right that Slayden could have a future as a bench/DH player for a bad AL team, but Mayberry has a much better chance of contributing to this team.

Slayden is an intriguing guy, but not sure he really fits on this team. Not sure where he really fits b/c he was exposed in the Rule 5 draft and nobody took him.

Grr...Above should say "not sure where he fits with any team b/c he was exposed in the Rule 5 draft and nobody took a chance on him".

If Slayden keeps hitting, someone's bound to give him a shot, whether its here or elsewhere, now or 5 years from now. I don't think I'd classify him as a darkhorse to make the bigs this year, but he cleary isn't without hope. Without checking the stats.... he's porbably been a better hitter than TJ Bohn in his career, and he got a few cups of coffee in the show.

Just an reminder: Dong Lien is a dumb lazy moron who should be fired.

Jack and BedBeard: You guys are gettng duped by mike twisting the argument of clout, BAP, and I.

Not one of us said he was going to make this team. I said he would be a darkhorse if we weren't already heavy with lefties. I then said he'd probably be a decent 4th or 5th outfielder in the majors. Clout compared him to Jack Cust becasue he's a nother guy who bounced around the minors forever, and then was given a chance and developed into a decent power option for a major league club.

Slayden has that potential but obviously who knows if he reaches that pinnacle. No one was saying he was the missing piece for this team or that he would be a bigger help than Mayberry. That's a red herring of an argument. Mayberry would fit better with the team given what we had, but if we were right handed heavy in the outfield you could say the same thing about Mayberry as I did about Slayden. It's not comparing the two, or their impact, but rather saying something based off the facts in front of you. We have a ton of left handed hitting outfielders- we don't need another one.

BedBeard- My guess on why Slayden wasn't picked up in the Rule is based on his age more than anything. At 26 he is a little older than most playing in the AA league. Of course he played a full college run before enternig the minors but that isn't of concern to teams. Numerous times a guy who is slightly older, hitting well in a league, is attributed to his age. He has hit well in every league he has been in. If he starts in AAA and posts his same career line he will have some interest, minor or not, in the majors. Look at the teams in the league and check out their 4th and 5th outfielders. If his numbers stay the same in AAA, what percentage of those 4th and 5th guys do you think Slayden could beat out.

No one is saying Slayden is a starter, just that he'd be a good late bench guy.

Will John Mayberry Jr. be at Spring Training? Is he on the 40-man roster already?

So I guess Truth was right the other day when he said he would be able to defend himself without my help . . .

He is correct. Not a single poster -- not Truth, not clout, not sophist, not I -- ever said that Slayden had a chance of making the opening day roster. Truth and I said exactly the opposite. We merely said that IF the Philllies didn't already have so many left-handers/outfielders, then Slayden might have an outside shot at sticking. I also might add that I don't recall ever being "dismissive" of John Mayberry, Jr.'s prospects. To the contrary, I liked the Golson-Mayberry trade a lot, and I have very little doubt that Mayberry will be a decent major league bench player at worst. I do have doubts that it will happen in early 2009, since there is absolutely nothing in his minor league numbers to suggest that he could make the jump to the majors right now & hit higher than about .220. But if Mayberry has a great spring training, he'll certainly be in the mix for the last roster spot.

I think I remember some previous posts where Madson was one of only a couple players doing team events. Maybe he actually enjoys the Phils and resigning here isn't as far fetched as we thought? Although the fact that he has Boras sort of hurts that idea.

mikes77: Also, Dobbs is 30, not 29. He was either a full-time minor leaguer, or shuttling back and forth between the majors and minors, until he finally made the Phillies' opening day roster in 2007 -- at which time he was 28 1/2. So I was off by half a year. He was in the minors until he was 28 1/2, not 29.

I never paid much attention to Slayden, since he doesn't seem to be on the doorstep, but his minor-league stats compare pretty well to Greg Dobbs' pre-MLB stats. Granted, Slayden is older for his levels and strikes out more, but he has more power, and his cumulative minor-league average is .294. I can see him getting a career in, but it will be just like Easler and Stairs and other bat-only players -- it probably won't be until he's 29 or 30.

Sophist: Thanks. I assumed he would be. I think consensus on BL was that the Golson-Mayberry Jr. trade was a good one. That didn't mean it would pay off... it just means that Mayberry Jr. likely has a better chance of being an impact player than Golson does. And it means that Mayberry Jr. has a greater chance of filling a team need than Golson did.

None of that means it will happen. And I think most of us agree that Mayberry Jr. has a much higher ceiling than Slayden.

I've never understood this love affair with Jeremy Slayden...sure he's a nice guy and his numbers look decent but he's probably never gonna play in a Phillies uniform. If he's lucky, he MIGHT make an MLB roster before he's 30 but odds are he won't ever do so. He'll be the Crash Davis of corner outfielders...

From the last thread~

Brian G~

In answer to your question as to what a reasonable payroll should be, "reasonable" is doing whatever you have to do to maintain a playoff-caliber team and paying to going rate for the players you need.

Example: The Yanks screwed everything by the giving out the contracts they did for Sabathia and Burnett. That skews the market upward. A guy like Lowe should get more than he would have gotten if the Yanks acted more like a normal organization.

If the Phils wanted or want Lowe, why don't they seriously (if they have not done so)see what it would take to get him? Why does re-signing Moyer preclude them from getting him?
Because they set a budget and won't go over it. But what they should do is try to be creative as possible and make it work. People on budgets do that all the time. I'd much rather see Lowe here than with the Mets, which is where he'll most like end up.

Heck, we didn't even get DeRosa (who was traded for nothing), jerry Hairston Jr, or now Rocco Baldelli. So where is the RH bat, the reliever or 2, and the starter? And I do agree with you that Happ should be given every opportunity, but I do believe a more establised starter would better suit them.

The other problem is this. The arb cases are going to cause the payroll to rise a great deal. Why is it that they didn't get some of the players who are arb-eligable signed to multi-year deals sooner (Werth, Vic, Hamels)? Because they just didn't want to. That's why.

So, instead of raiding a weak market like they should have like you say, they sit on their thumbs while players who can help them sign elsewhere.

It is coming out that Lowe is speaking with the Braves too. It is becoming more eivdent that the Phils are not interested.

NEPP: It's not a "love affair" with Slayden. It's more like bewilderment as to why the Phillies (and, for that matter, everyone else) regard him as a non-prospect when he keeps posting good numbers.

The Phillies, in general, seem totally loathe to the idea of giving young players a chance. Think about it: when was the last time a hot Phillies prospect was ever given a chance for meaningful playing time by design? When a young player does get a chance with the Phillies, it's always because circumstances have forced management's hand -- and it's usually after management has exhausted every other possible alternative. Hamels was called up only because Floyd & Madson imploded as starters. Howard, because Thome went on the DL. Utley, because David Bell went on the DL. Happ, because KK imploded. I guess Ruiz was sort of given a chance to be the starting catcher, although even then, the Phillies had to go out and sign the totally pathetic Rod Barajas because they regarded a known entitity (known to be horrible, that is) to be preferable to a young player.

DPatrone: "Why is it that they didn't get some of the players who are arb-eligable signed to multi-year deals sooner (Werth, Vic, Hamels)? Because they just didn't want to. That's why."

So the owners are cheap because they don't want to spend money... but they could have saved money by signing arb-eligible players to long-term deals... but they didn't want to.

Um... color me confused with this awesome logic!

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