Teams make $50,000 bet on longshots in Rule 5

There will be gems, like four of the five players pictured above, but much more fool's gold, like the guy on the bottom left, when teams stake their claim for unprotected minor leaguers in today's Rule 5 Draft. From Baseball America: "Don't expect to see another Josh Hamilton or Joakim Soria taken in Thursday's Rule 5 draft. Thanks to rules changes that give teams an extra year before teams have to protect players, the talent for this year's draft is less impressive." For a full list of eligible Phillies and complete coverage of the draft, click on Baseball America.

[Jump to the newest comments]

Comments

[GM-Carson]

This year the Rule V is completely unhyped, and for good reason, there's really not much out there to get excited about.

[thephaithful]

thats kind of lame about the new rule - I've always enjoyed seeing a Rule 5'er turning into a stud with a new team.

God damn, Johan Santana for 50g's. Thats like hitting a trifecta of longshots led by a 99-1 horse.

[Deutsche Phan]

Not sure if anyone else share this, but this made me feel warm on the inside:

"Foxsports.com reported yesterday that the Phillies have let all teams know that righthander Adam Eaton can be had by anyone willing to pick up $1 million of his contract. The Phillies would be responsible for the remaining $7.5 million he'll make in 2009 plus the $500,000 buyout of his option . . . "

[king myno]

Not sure if this was said, but I'm getting a very "Lidge for Geary and Bourn"-esque feeling about this Putz trade. Seems like they gave up very little for what could end up being a whole lot.

[Andy]

I'm guessing at least two of these four from the Phils minors will be taken by other teams:

J.Slayden
P.Overholt
B.Harker
J.Moran

Just a guess.

[thephaithful]

I am usually not a fan of the Yanks free agency splurges, but I'm pulling for them for AJ Burnett. It looks as though they've top Atlanta's offer to Burnett, so hopefully the Braves are maxed out and the Yanks can steal him.

Yanks went 5yr $85, where i think the last report from the Braves was an unconfirmed 5yr $80

[thephaithful]

dutch: i laughed my ass off about that Eaton article. The best part of the article. "The Phillies want nothing in return."

I am almost guaranteed that someone takes him, thats like signing a free agent pitcher for 1.5mil. I wouldn't... but i'm sure someone will.

[Sophist]

thephaithful, yes, but look what the Marlins turned around and did after drafting Santana: they traded him and cash to the Twins for some dude named Jared Camp. A few years later, making about 300K, Santana struck out 169 in about 158 IP with a 148 ERA+.

[Tony D]

Jim Ed Warden is my favorite "beerleaguer" of all time.

[GM-Carson]

"Jim Ed Warden is my favorite "beerleaguer" of all time."

I'm partial to Adam Bernero...

[king myno]

I love Vic Darensbourg.

[Tony D]

Alfredo Simon was a good one too (I think that's his name). We talked for about 2 weeks about his walk rates and how if he got some control he might make the team. The dude last about 2 days and was back washing cars.

[BobbyD]

If nothing else, the Eaton move proves that he will not pitch for the Phillies this year. If they're willing to pay 7.5 mil for him to go to another team, they'd also be willing to pay 8.5 mil for him to go home. They're just trying to save a mil if they can.

[drew]

From the last thread:
"Drew: What do you want to see the rotation at?"

Honestly, I think the Mets are here:

Santana, Pelfrey (2-3), Maine (4)

I think they end up going for a Garland-type to be a number 4 and possibly bringing in another 5 type (think Nate Robertson [disgusting]) via trade to compete with Niese for the last spot.

[NEPP]

In a way I almost feel sorry for Eaton. He had to know in his heart that he wasn't worth $8 million a year when he signed that deal. He had to know he wouldn't live up to it and that the entire city would hate him. He'd already been here and knew how tough the fans were. He had to know he'd be a pariah for the rest of his life in Philly.

Then I remember that we gave that complete and utter bum $25 million to suck royally...money we could have used for legit players and picture that SOB laughing all the way to the bank.

[Lake Fred]

I'm underwhelmed. We get some no name 'tweener catcher for Jaramillo to replace Coste on the roster to back up Cooch, I mean, Chooch. There's talk we're close to signing Chan Ho Park...yawn. We're looking for someone to take Eaton...for nothing! Next, we'll be trading Condrey for five magic beans!

[AWH]

NEPP, Eaton is financially secure for life, at a level most people can only dream about.

Beleive me, he's laughing with no remorse.

[mvptommyd]

See thats just not good enough in my option. If you go into the yr with that type roation your Bullpen is going to get beat up and all your "role players" i.e. feliciano, the releiver you just got in the putz trade and putz are all gonna get worn down.

This is where i dont get your team. You guys get a set up man who doesn't want to be a set up man by the way, so that is a problem right there. Then you get a closer. Now you have no money to upgrade the rotation.

Whats the point of finishing the bullpen help to a degree but not the rotation.If I was omar. I would have gotton rodriguez, then gotton lowe ( he is a winner), then signed another starter.

In that sense you still have smith, chavez and carp. Then trade those guys for a LFer. Now all of a sudden your a stronger team.

[The Other Kevin]

All I have to say about Adam Eaton being a "bum" or whatever, is this:

Would you say no to $25 million?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

In a way, I feel for the guy – I'm sure he's trying to be a good player. He's just not, unfortunately, very good at major league baseball.

[NEPP]

Oh god no...I'd take the money and run. I can't blame any player for getting the most money they can get out of a team.

[mvptommyd]

lake fred,

We are world series champs buddy, get off the cliff.

Now We got the catcher from the buccos because we are trading coste to the cubs. You need to set yourself up for the next move. Relax.

[AWH]

On a previous thread, someone posted a comment saying the Pads had asked Peavy whether he's be willing to go to Philly.

If he says yes, then the Jaramillo trade may have been to set something up directly with SD for Peavy.

It makes me wonder whether CHOOCH could be part of what SD is asking for Peavy.

Does a package of Chooch, Carrasco, Happ and a fourth player pry Peavy from the Pads?

[mvptommyd]

AWH,

I would add my left nut for that guy. In chicago it was reported that Peavy would rather come here than the cubbies.

[BENTZ]

Adam Bernero: Toronto 8, Phillies 1 - June 30, 2006

Bernero was the starting pitcher and took the loss. His ugly line: 2 IP, 7 H, 8 ER, 2 BB, 0 K, 3 HR (2 to Lyle Overbay and, oddly, one to Eric Hinske who is the rare opponent who will go down in Phillies' lore for a good reason).

Bernero was followed in that game by the quartet of Fabio Castro (3 IP), Aaron Fultz (1 IP), Rick White (1 IP) and Arthur Rhodes (1 IP)

After losing the Saturday game, the Phils actually won on Sunday, 11-6, in a game started by...Aaron Fultz!! Fultz, Geary, Franklin, Cormier, Rhodes and Gordon...oh my...and they beat AJ Burnett in that game!

[clout]

Chan Ho is a good pickup, way better than either Clay Condrey or Rudy Seanez. Pen next year could look like this:

Park, Durbin, Kendrick, Eyre, Ramirez, Madson, Lidge.

That's 3 righty swingmen, 2 lefties and solid setup & closer. If KK flops in ST and Carrasco shines he might even get a spot, although that's a longshot. Pen has a chance to be even better than last season if all stay healthy.

Obviously, if they try to use him in the rotation to replace Moyer, it will be a disaster, but Ruben isn't that stupid.

[AWH]

Phils rotation would then be Peavy, Hamels, Myers, Blanton, #5.

If that were to happen it would really neuter the KRod, Putz deals, and a platoon in LF with less offense would be acceptable.

[mvptommyd]

Clout,

I couldn't agree more. But i like CC too.

[drew]

Re: Putz Reaction

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/12/10/putz_takes_trade_well.html

The thing is - the Mets aren't the Yankees. We have money, but we're not going over the luxury tax threshold.

I think we may try to re-sign Ollie, but it's been said that we don't want to go more than 3 years (but I think we'd do 4.)

If we re-sign Ollie and get Garland, I think that rotation is fine.

With starting pitching, I don't think Lowe is worth the 4-5 years he's going to get, but he would be a nice upgrade.

I don't think Smith/Chavez/Carp nets us more production in LF than we are going to get from Murphy/Tatis.

[philsphan]

The change to the Rule V draft is dumb. I don't see the point in the Phillies getting involved this year and the only Phillies player I see taken is Slayden. I think he would eventually get sent back, especially under the new rules.

The Mets getting Putz after K-Rod makes their bullpen much better. It should be an interesting NL East race again in 2009.

RJ Swindle is my favorite beerleaguer since he actually made it to the majors. I have no idea why the Brewers gave him a major league contract but I wish him the best of luck.

Hopefully we can get rid of Eaton. The Padres may take him since he actually pitched well there, especially if we help them get rid of Peavy and his salary. The Eaton contract was pretty bad but the Mariners signing of Carlos Silva last year may turn out being even worse.

[GM-Carson]

Clout- who the hell is this Ramirez you have listed in the Phils pen? Did you mean JC Romero?

[AWH]

clout, I disagree that Park is "way better" than Condrey.

On this I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree.

Park stunk until last season. Are you sure he can repeat it?

I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

Hit the link in the upper right for BallStickStuff "Don't do it Ruben" to see an alternative viewpoint.

[mvptommyd]

Drew,I think that no matter what it will come down to September and who shows up.

I mean 2 years ago you guys collapsed, last yr you got Santana and then your bullpen collapsed. This yr as it looks stong bullpen possibly and weak rotation.

My whole point is everything needs to be evened out.

[AWH]

Carson, I think clout had a brain cramp.

Must have been caused by his mancrush for Chan Ho Park. :)

[drew]

tommy,

i agree that it will come down to the end, like it has been the past couple years.

my feeling is this:

is what the Mets (and conversely the Phillies) have done this offseason so far been enough to net them the wins that would have been necessary to get them over the proverbial hump?

The Mets, without K-Rod and Putz, and with Ollie and Pedro, were an 89 win team. Lets say we lose Ollie, Pedro (hope to g-d) doesn't come back - we lose about 15 wins. Can that be made up with what we'll get in SP? Probably.

With Putz and K-Rod, I think we'll net a couple more wins. I think 92-93 isn't a stretch if the offense stays the same.

The Phils have to do as much to match it, and I think you guys are just getting warmed up this offseason. Or Amaro might be in trouble.

[clout]

Carson: Yep, Romero. Good catch. Must be my daydream that the Phils sign Manny.

[thephaithful]

from MLBTR: Chipper Jones spoke to Burnett about ten days ago, and the pitcher told him that if he does play in the NL, it'll only be with the Braves.

C'mon Yanks, throw that money at him! Would much rather keep him out of the NL East.

[clout]

AWH: Condrey is a fringe major league player who's pitched poorly with men on base, has a dreadful WHIP and is fit only for mopup relief. Park's problems were partly sore-arm related and mostly came as a starter. I think he's far better than Condrey in the pen.

[stjoehawk]

To quote Rob Neyer, "it's not the "Rule V Draft," but the Rule 5 draft. It's called the Rule 5 draft because the section of the Official Rules that covers the draft just happens to be Rule 5 in the book."

[mvptommyd]

Drew,

I disagree. I think we as of right now are stil a 92-95 win team. While the mets are right now about the same. The mets have almost all their stock vested that rodriguez and putz are going to close out games. If they blow a couple games, those NY fans are going to tear them apart and then start the downfall including injuries as well.

I still think your are underestimating what chavez did for you guys. Now there are rumors swirling still about every team but I think now matter what the phillies are going to be in it.

[clout]

mvptommyd: "I think we as of right now are stil a 92-95 win team."

Who's the leftfielder on this 95 win team? Who are the 4th and 5th starters?

[mvptommyd]

You just can't deny the hamels, myers 1-2 punch. howard, utley, rollins, feliz in field, victorino in center and madson-lidge bridge.

Would rather have that then Santana, ??? 1-2. Delgado, castillo, reyes, wright. Putz-Rodriguez bridge. As stated earlier putz doesn't wanna set up.

[mvptommyd]

clout:

The Lfer will be burrell, i think he wishes he took the 2 yr offer the phils made to him earlier.

The 4th and 5th starters will be Happ and Kendrick/Carrasco. I personally think Moyer will not be as effective this yr. Last yr happ was 1-0 in 31 innings with a 3.59 ERA in 8 games. But in his 2 starts he was pretty darn good. Overall, i think Happ fills moyers role.

Even if they LFer is jenkins. He is gonna have a better yr this year than last because last yr he was coming off injury.

[drew]

i didn't say the phils wouldn't be in it, and i think you over estimate what endy did.

jeremy reed = endy, with a better bat

and, people said the same thing about lidge with philly fans. i won't say that KRod/Putz do the same, but i don't think lidge will repeat that either.

But, I'd rather have Wright than Feliz, Tron over Victorino. But that's my bias talking.

[mvptommyd]

Well it is getting started all over again which is good. I just like how good this rivarly is becoming and now with Citi Field aka citizens bank park 2. That place is gonna be a hitters park like the bank.

[trout]

Putz seems ok with it:
That said, in a report for the Seattle Times, Geoff Baker quotes Putz as saying:

“It’s a new challenge and I’m excited about it… I’m going to a new team that’s going to be very competitive. Francisco Rodriguez is a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen.”

But who knows if he is healthy. Last year he was pretty mediocre. Maybe he knows he is no longer capable of closing.

Mike Camron for Melky Cabrera and the brewers pick up salary? Thats nuts. Cabrera is useless.

[mvptommyd]

Yea. Well I hope for the Yankees/Mets front office they both make it to the W.S. because if not it will be great to hear all the calls for the GM's heads and now how they are all bums.

Both teams will be completely changed.

[stjoehawk]

I wonder if Trevor Hoffman would have an interest in becoming a setup man...

[mvptommyd]

Your joking right. We have the madman madson. I want Peavy!

[Hibachi]

"C'mon Yanks, throw that money at him! Would much rather keep him out of the NL East."

Why? If the Braves go to 5 years and over 80mill they are saddling themselves with a terrible contract for a pitcher with a ton of flaws.

[bay_area_phan]

"You just can't deny the hamels, myers 1-2 punch. howard, utley, rollins, feliz in field, victorino in center and madson-lidge bridge."

I don't know what "you can't deny" means, but I can sure as hell deny that Brett Myers is up to par as a No. 2 starter on a playoff caliber team, and I can sure as hell deny that Pedro Feliz deserves to be mentioned in any argument which tries to make the case that we're a 92 to 95 win team.

[thephaithful]

Howard > Delgado
Utley >+ whoever
Rollins < Reyes
Feliz +< Wright
LF = LF
Victorino < Beltran
Werth > Church(?)
Ruiz = schiender (i'd say ruiz > in 09).

Pitching is hard to say, since Myers is two different people, hamels and santana seem equal, and both last halves of the rotation are unset.

Lidge > KRod
Madson < Putz
PHI mid relief > Mets - eh, could be equal.

Seems pretty damn even to me across the board.

[mvptommyd]

thephaitful,

Bottom line is Philles are World Series Champs! Met are not.

Phillies hit in the clutch, Mets did not.

Phillies bullpen got us to the World Series, Mets bullpen Folded.

Phillies manager rallied the team when Rollins was down for a month, Mets manager couldn't rally his team after that cubs loss.

I don't care player by player, watch the game and look at the thing as a whole.

[BENTZ]

Question:

Mets lead the Phils after 7 innings 4-3. The Phils have the bottom of the order up in the 8th, say, Ruiz, PH, Rollins. Do the Mets use Putz in that situation or do they have K-Rod pitch the 8th? Reason being, it would be much better for New York to have Putz facing Utley and Howard in the 9th. There's where the quandry of the "closer" position comes in to play.

[drew]

Phaithful:

I'd agree on that. My only qualm would be if Church were healthy, but based strictly on last year, Werth has it.

[mvptommyd]

the phaitful,

Also, how the hell do you have reyes better than rollins???

Rollins Resume

-WS champ
-League MVP
-Gold Glove winner

Reyes

- UMMMM, none of the above
- did win best temper tamtrum
- best dance

Does that make him better?

[GM-Carson]

To quote Rob Neyer, "it's not the "Rule V Draft," but the Rule 5 draft. It's called the Rule 5 draft because the section of the Official Rules that covers the draft just happens to be Rule 5 in the book."

To quote Happy Gilmore, "Green jacket, gold jacket, who gives a sh*t?".

[NEPP]

The Rule "V" thing pisses me off to.

It's Rule 5. Yes I know its nitpicky damnnit.

[The Kid]

Reyes generally puts up better all around numbers than Rollins and he is in the conversation for gold glove. You could make the argument for either guy. Reyes needs to grow up though.

[mvptommyd]

But i would take rollins over reyes any day of the week. Rollins even hits in the clutch, reyes folds in september thats why he doesn't win the gold glove or get enough mvp talk.

[drew]

Reyes v. Rollins is really pretty negligible when it comes to on the field/production.

Off the field, while Reyes might need to grow up, Rollins needs to shut his mouth.

I daresay that's part of the reason our fanbases love both players, and probably would if they were on the opposite teams.

[bay_area_phan]

Phaithful:

First of all, that's not a valid way to compare teams. On a scale of 1 to 10, Howard is about a 9 and Delgado an 8, whereas Wright is a 10 and Feliz is about a 3. Does the slim difference between Howard and Deldagdo negate the huge difference between Wright and Feliz?

Second, you lost any semblance of credibility when you called Santana and Hamels equal. Hamels had a great post-season, but Santana is the best pitcher in baseball year in and year out & his numbers were WAY better than Hamels' numbers last year.

Third, rating Lidge above K-Rod is a bit delusional. Lidge had a tremendous year -- maybe better than K-Rod -- but on a year-to-year basis, there's no comparison. K-Rod is only 26 and already deserves to be mentioned in the discussion of best closers ever.

Fourth, I think we DO have a pretty good idea of what Brett Myers will bring us; it's just that the Phillies are in denial about it. What he will bring us is what he has always brought us -- some periods of greatness and some periods of complete ineptitude. When the dust settles, his full-season ERA will be somewhere in the high 3s to the low 4s. If the Phillies are counting on him as their No. 2 starter this year, they're letting their better judgment be clouded by unwarranted optimism.

Fifth, the Mets have a rotation of Santana, an emerging star in Pelfrey, Maine, and -- if they resign him (as they're trying to), Oliver Perez. That rotation blows the water out of the Phillies' rotation.

Ultimately, any team-by-team comparison is pointless until we know what the rosters will look like. But if the season started right now, the Mets are a far better team than the Phillies. The Phillies were 3 games better last year and probably a good 10 to 12 game difference was because of the bullpens alone. The Mets have addressed that area with a vengeance, while retaining all key players from last year (except Perez). Meanwhile, the Phillies have lost their No. 2 starter & their best right-handed bat, without doing anything to replace them.

[thephaithful]

tommyd: I'm a huge rollins guy and i hate Reyes, but i still give the edge of reyes as a better player... and not by much.

Rollins career year was awesome, and if he starts having those seasons then yes I will vote Rollins > Reyes, but jroll hasn't came very close to that season before.

Reyes bats is in the .290's and steals 50+ while JRoll is in the .270's and is good about 40. I think Rollins is better at short, but Reyes isn't a slouch either.

If you strictly look at their numbers, and their potential in the future, Reyes edges him out in my eyes.

[bay_area_phan]

Using mvptommy's analysis:

Feliz > Wright.

Wright had better numbers, but Feliz won a WFC and had the game-winning hit in the decisive game, while Wright's team folded down the stretch.

[mvptommyd]

Drew,

Wait a minute! Timeout!

Rollins needs to shut his mouth? Why? Beltran said the same thing last season but couldn't back it up.

Rollins sais the Phillies would be the team to beat 2 yrs ago. and we were.

Rollins said that we would win 100 games last yr, we won 103. ( 92 in regular season, 11 in postseason).

Also, this is coming from a fan of the mets that ever since they signed rodriguez, the mets fans are most excited about rodriguez celebrating a win on the mound as CBP. That is crazY!!!!!! Why is your fanbase excited about that? What have you guys won? The season series? Wow good job, win 7 of 11 from us EVERY YEAR. I will trade that for a World Series.

[BENTZ]

I don't understand how anyone can portray the 09 Phils as a 92-95 win team when they only won 92 games last year AND are currently looking worse than last year. The Mets just upped the ante big time by handling their major needs. Yes, they still have weaknesses. Both teams have work to do. As of right now, I would pick the Mets. Then again, I would have picked the Mets with 2 weeks (heck one week) to go in each of the last two seasons as well.

[mvptommyd]

Bay sear fan:

No, i said rollins added a mvp of the league and gold glove.

Not a game winning freaking hit, haha. Come on bro. The World Series ring just puts the knockout punch on it. Stats can be read into meaning anything, dont you know that by now?

[drew]

Tommy, do you have any use for objectivity? Or do you just fly off the handle about everything?

We were comparing Reyes and Rollins, and what I don't like about Rollins and what you don't like about Reyes.

And, the Mets won 11 of 18, but the numbers aren't really of use to you I would guess.

[mvptommyd]

Man, your guys are brutal. We just won the WS and your thinking that rollins is worse than reyes given all his accomplishments and saying that Amaro is bad because he isn't like the mets and being aggresive for injury prone guys and rodriguez who is losing velocity each yr.

List of Current Mets who Minaya got 2 Yrs to late: Schnieder, Church (concussions), Delgado, Putz (???), Pedro, Rodriguez (???)

[thephaithful]

BAP: yeah i understand thats not how to tell which team is better - i'm just trying to show that they are equal talent wise.

- I am willing to say that Hamels will have just as good of a 2009 as Santana, I don't think thats a stretch.

- I think Utley over Mets 2B is as much as Wright over Feliz.

-Krod's WHIP, ERA, K/BB, K9 were all inferior to Lidge. And Lidge was the best closer in the league years before as well, its not like he's sprung up out of nowhere and has no chance to be great in 09.

-Yes I agree that their rotation is better, but i left it unopen beacuse there are plenty of empty spots and possible signings for both teams. Those could look much different by Spring Training.

-I think the teams have very equal talent at this point, so either team could propel themselves to the division lead and both have enoguh holes to drop out of contention. i do not see how the Mets are that much better than Phillies on 12/11/08.

[mvptommyd]

"Why is your fanbase excited about that? What have you guys won? The season series? Wow good job, win 7 of 11 from us EVERY YEAR. I will trade that for a World Series."

I mean "and" instead "of " as from the psot above.

I mean if you want reyes thats your decision i just think it is wrong but whatever, its your team.

[BobbyD]

BAP - You always talk like the Phillies completely suck and that you don't even realize they won the World Series.

[BENTZ]

The bigger concern about the Mets improving their bullpen is that the Phils went 7-11 against New York last year and a number of those wins were against the bullpen. Games on 4/8, 7/4, 7/22 (for sure), 8/26 (for sure) all were against the bullpen, so the Phils only beat the Mets starters (or very early bullpen) three times. The July 4th loss was not egregious for the Mets, but the first game they played each other was and the 7/22 and 8/26 games certainly were. Taking away the two major implosions from the Mets bullpen and they actually win the division.

Now you can do that with plenty of games over the course of a season, the Mets blew many opportunities against the Cubs late...the Phils had the horrible loss in St. Louis on the dropped throw at first, etc. But the main point is the Mets found their overall weakness and made some major upgrades (even though I personally think there is risk involved in both pitchers, but not substantially more than the Phils taking on Lidge). The Phils have to counteract by shoring up their weaknesses.

[NEPP]

You really think that overall Howard is just a shade better than Delgado? Seriously? You think Delgado is gonna repeat his success next year at Age 37 over Howard's Age 29 season?

[mvptommyd]

Thank you BobbyD, but it isn't just him. Sometimes I really think some people will never be happy.

[NEPP]

Key stat when comparing both teams:

Postseason Wins

Phillies=11
Mets=0

[Alby]

"Stats can be read into meaning anything, dont you know that by now?"

Wish you had said that first, so I could have ignored all your posts, instead of just those from here on out.

[drew]

"Key stat when comparing both teams in 2008:

Postseason Wins

Phillies=11
Mets=0"

Fixed it for you.

[mvptommyd]

Alby,

What stats have I rattled off????

None all i said was what rollins has won. Everyone else has talked stats about reyes.

[BENTZ]

Here's one more point - the Mets missing the playoffs gave the Phils a much easier road to the WS. They would have gotten the Dodgers instead of Milwaukee in the first round and while they should still win that series, they would have had, in my mind, a much tougher NLCS match-up. I'm not saying that the Phils wouldn't have won, but the road was set up nicely for them. At the very least, a series with the Mets or Cubs goes longer than 5 games and they may not have been set up as well in the WS as they were.

[mvptommyd]

I really think that the way people talk, the mets just won the WS.

Who cares what they do. On today December 11, 2008. I am stating that come Sept. 14,2009 the mets will fold again.

The past 2 yrs, thats the same exact date that it happened.

[Sophist]

Not surprising Yanks want Burnett for a lot of reasons. One of them being his 2008 numbers against them:

38.1 IP, 8 R, 43/6 K/BB, .219/.255/.307 against, .945 WHIP.

career:

77.2 IP, 23 R, 78/23 K/BB, .206/.270/.310 against, 1.032 WHIP.

[NYQuakerPride]

It's December. I respect the enthusiasm that people show for both the Mets and Phils, but can't we just wait until these two teams fill out their rosters before arguing over "who has the better team"?

Also, mvptommyd, just fyi: Putz went on the DL for bruised ribs on April 2nd, then was DL'ed for the hyperextended elbow in Mid-June. He wasn't DL'ed twice for the same injury. He also pitched much better after coming back; he wasn't nearly close to 2007 form, but his second half splits were better.

The bottom line is that both teams face a good deal of uncertainty; on top of that, it's simply difficult to repeat as World Champions. For that reason alone I'm confident in the Mets' chances, but realize it'll still be a difficult year.

[mvptommyd]

BENTZ,

They beat who they had to play. And what edvidence do you have for that??? Everyone was saying because of manny and the dodgers bullpen it would go at least 6. and they crushed them. It was the phils year and they were in a zone. I mean madson was hitting 95 for G*d's sakes.

[thephaithful]

Bentz: Phillies beat Ben Sheets and CC Sabathia. Yes the brewers played very lackluster, but those are two of the best pitchers in the league. I wouldn't consider that a walk in the park.

And now that I'm thinking of it - you said "one more point".. how is this a point, to anything?

[CJ]

Re: Putz trade

Ignore the Chavez/Reed and Smith/Green portions of the trade. They're virtually the same players.

The Mets dealt Aaron Heilman and Mike Carp for JJ Putz. Carp is the key prospect. He really broke through at AA this season hitting .299 and boasting a stellar OBP of .403. His future is likely as a 1B or a DH... with the possibility of being a LF. His power ceiling is likely at about 20 HR.

The reason teams are interested in Heilman is because they see a starting pitcher there. He started 7 games in 2005, the last year he got any starts. He was 2-3 with a 4.71... but he was back and forth from the bullpen that year and never got a chance to start again. We'll see what kind of success he has in Seattle. Can he be worse than Carlos Silva?

[Tony D]

One thing is for sure, the Phils-Mets rivalry is getting beter every year.

[CY]

Bentz - you are right, NYM missing the playoffs was big for us in hindsight.

And people still consider the Phils a 92 win team right now because they went on some cold streaks last year. Surely that won't be the case in 09.

Facts are that the Mets have started off well and right now they are a very similar level team. Hopefully the rest of the offseason can go in our favor.

You're up JR

[BobbyD]

BENTZ: The whole country picked the Dodgers over the Phillies and Sabathia over Myers. Don't rewrite history.

[stjoehawk]

" Phillies beat Ben Sheets and CC Sabathia. Yes the brewers played very lackluster, but those are two of the best pitchers in the league. I wouldn't consider that a walk in the park."

I'm pretty sure that Sheets didn't pitch in the postseason.

[mvptommyd]

NYQuaker,

I never said it was for the same injury. All i know is the IR is the IR. He was on it twice.

I agree, i am not arguing over the teams, all i was saying is that rollins is better than reyes in my opinion and that mets fansa re acting the same as last yr with santana.

Also worth noting the Mets are home for 6 of there last 18.On the road for the rest with 3 coming in the bank.

The phillies are home for 9 their last 19, with 3 of them to the mets

[thephaithful]

tommyd: yo bud calm down, people are giving their opinions on baseball, you are going a little over board here.

stressing that the Phils won the world seires doesn't mean that the Mets won't have a good 2009.

[CJ]

I guess I'll be the voice of reason...

1) The season doesn't start today, so it's a pointless discussion.

2) The Mets "on paper" were supposed to be the Phils "on paper" last year thanks to the Santana signing.

3) Can we get a new thread so we can put this pointless comparison discussion behind us? I rather argue over Pedro Feliz!!!

[bay_area_phan]

Bobby: We won the World Series, but that was in 1980. That's 28 years ago. Have we won anything since then?

[thephaithful]

good catch stjoe. gallardo started game 1.

[CJ]

er... be = beat in point #2.

[NYQuakerPride]

"I never said it was for the same injury. All i know is the IR is the IR. He was on it twice."

My fault then. In a previous thread I thought you said that he went on the DL twice for the elbow.

[mvptommyd]

Thats my point. Who cares what the mets do??? Concentrate on us and getting us better.

This is where i give amaro credit. He isnt jumping the gun.

The mets saw the yanks signed CC and rushed and signed Rodriguez, then they rushed and gave up 7 players for putz who was injured twice last yr.

Now everything is yelling " Look what the mets did, how can we top them?!!!!" Everyone relax. Gillick is still the top consultant so Amaro has the title but Gillick is still the wingman.

[CJ]

bap: You mean apart from the 2008 World Series?

[NEPP]

Let us all bask in the fact that we're World Fvcking Champions!

I'm wearing my WS tshirt right now at work (under a sweater of course but still) I never thought I'd get to do that back in April.

[mvptommyd]

Hell yea NEPP,

All i know is come april we will see a WS flag waving in the wind for every team to come and see.