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Thursday, December 11, 2008


Kevin Towers says the Peavy to the Cubs deal is dead.

hopefully the peavy to phils deal is on!!!

From the last thread . . .

Chris: Putz did not have a good year, mainly because he suddenly lost the ability to find the plate. If that problem recurs this year, then I agree that the Mets will be sorely disapointed in their new acquisition. But if he returns to 2006/2007 form, the Mets will have themselves the game's most dominant 8th and 9th inning relief tandem -- even more dominant than Madson and Lidge.

Anyone know what this guy's up side could be, because a quick stat read seems there isn't one?

I have no idea Lazarus, maybe his size? Said he was 6'4", maybe someone thinks that's a natural advantage and they can get lucky and tweak a mechanic?

"Anyone know what this guy's up side could be, because a quick stat read seems there isn't one?"

I don't know; at 6-4 he's still too small to play in the post.

Mosebach's minor league numbers suggest that he's like a lesser version of Kyle Kendrick. What's the point? I could understand adding a guy like this as minor league inventory, but why would you pay 50-grand for a crappy finesse starter who needs to stay on your 25-man roster all year if you want to keep him at all? Unless, that is, you're planning to go into the 2009 season with KK as your No. 5 starter, and you're bringing in Mosebach to provide competition for the job?

Maybe they need someone in the minors to grab something off a high shelf everyday and put it back.

Mediocre record, era, and whip throughout reason to pick this guy up!

What the hell is Rube's plan?

BAP: Mosebach didn't have much success in the AFL either. He appears to be a GB pitcher who doesn't strike many out but walks too many also. He's got no shot at breaking camp but the Phils may hope the Angels don't want him back. They do need guys like this at LV.

To comment on the discussion about the Putz and K-Rod moves. I think it's a well calculated gamble, and they are big enough names to satisfy the NY hype machines. K-Rod's declining numbers are a bit worrisome, however, and his delivery raises a big red flag. Putz also has struggled with injuries, but when he's healthy he's the better of the two. The Mets did a great job addressing one critical area, though should really be a surprise to no one. Onus is on Ruben to open that gap back up with moves of his own.

Lol clout they need everything in Allentown. At least the Pigs didn't totally suck for the entire season, but that first half was breath-taking. :)

you have to wonder why the Angels didn't even seem that interested in resigning K-Rod.

clout: Yeah, that thought occurred to me too. That's probably it although, again, I sort of wonder what's the point. There are plenty of guys like this floating around the minor league FA list.


Because they have Arreadondo, who is younger and makes much less, and they want the $ to try to sign Teixiera/Sabathia/Whoever.

Plus, isn't Vlad leaving next year? They need to eventually replace him.

"I don't know; at 6-4 he's still too small to play in the post"

yeah but he is white so maybe he can shoot it a little bit. hopefully he can make rain 3's

OTOH: I really like the guy picked up by the Mets. O'Day looks like he actually has a shot at sticking on a Major League roster. Is Rube's crew just not very good at this GM stuff?


Exactly. Whose the Angels closer going to be now?

points up to drew's post

Yea i just read it, thanks

" I really like the guy picked up by the Mets. O'Day looks like he actually has a shot at sticking on a Major League roster. Is Rube's crew just not very good at this GM stuff?"

I might be missing your point, but O'Day was picked before the Phillies went. Are you saying that the Phillies should have traded up? Or was there another player you liked more at their spot?

My theory on Mosebach:
At age 23 he threw 177.1 innings. They figure he'll develop into an "Innings-Eater." We all know how valuable those are.

Twins resigned Punto.


Maybe it's a message to KK that as he is he's a dime a dozen and probably should start finding a way to get lefties out.

Twins re-sign Nick Punto. Thank goodness.

stjoehawk: Don't bother. People will find a way to criticize Amaro... facts be damned!

Looks like Derosa to the Phillies is dead. Also, the Braves seem to be leading for Burnett right now. If that happens then the Yankees will probably blow Lowe away with an offer he can't refuse so that dream is dead, if it isn't already.

So what now?

stjoehawk -

There were probably better people to pick than O'Day. I was noting that the Mets did a decent job. O'Day is the kinda guy you should look for.

I kinda thought the Phils should look at, like, Chris Nowak from the Rays (a RH version of Dobbs) or even Corey Wimberly (little utility guy) from the Rockies. As a pitcher, I think, Jason Jones from the Yanks woulda been good, too, but he may have been gone by the Phils' pick as well.

I know his numbers are good, but I'm not scared of a right-handed setup man named Putz.

"Darren O’Day, who the Mets selected in Round 1, has a torn labrium indetified in an MRI during September of last season, “an injury the right-hander will try to heal through exercise rather than surgery,” wrote the Los Angeles Times last October.

…Ted Berg of SNY just told me that o’day can be put on the disabled list, and essentially be stashed away while he rehabs, without having to be returned to the team…"

Good thing the guy we picked can actually throw

Also, Angels have reportedly targeted Ibanez as a back-up plan if they don't re-sign Teixeira...

Sure, but the Angels already missed out on Sabathia, and will most likely lose out on the Tex sweepstakes, too. (and all the blue-chip starting pitchers, too) I would understand letting K-Rod walk if you are a small market club or are rebuilding, but you have a core there in Anaheim who can win now - why let your closer walk? With the lineup they have presently constructed, why hand the ball to a young, unproven cheap arm? This is not a frugle team. If anything, they overpay for personnel. I understand your point, but I still found it a bit odd that the Angels made no attempt to resign him.

It's not a shock that Peavy to the Cubs is dead. The Cubs' ownership situation is too murky right now to allow that type of deal to go through. The more complicated it became (3 and 4 way deals), the less chance it had to happen.

Anyone hear Hamels on WFAN about an hour ago? He apparently admitted that the Phils consider the Mets 'choke artists.' "Yea, until proven otherwise, I think that's what we all feel."


Bet all those Padres fans are totally bummed that they might have to watch that Peavy loser pitch another year.


Uh oh, wait for the mets fightin faithful, to call for rodriquez to do cart wheels for his first save against the phil's now. Those brainiacs will think that will help the notion. I can't wait.

PB some of it has to do with his initial asking price. If Lidge had been demanding that kind of contract (not the one he ultimately got) and you were Ruben wouldn't you start thinking about other options? Plus the kid the A's have looks pretty darn good. I think it's ultimately more a case of K-Rod yapping his was out of an offer than anything else.

Re:Robert Mosebach
I hope Rube Jr is smarter than I am, but I can't understand why we are betting that a pitcher with poor AA numbers is going to be on our Major League Roster for the year.
I know $50,000 is change compared tho the millions going to others but still

So if the Pads do trade Peavy what do you think the odds are for them to set the season low attendance number? Really who would shell out money to go see that team as it would be constituted? I mean, I know that the FLA teams generally hold pride of place when it comes to not supporting their clubs, but if I was a Pads fan I would be assembling a bomb for shipment to the owner's house.

Rotoworld on Mosebach:

"Mosebach, 24, went 9-12 with a 4.62 ERA and an 88/69 K/BB ratio in 177 1/3 innings for Double-A Arkansas last season. He has a pretty good sinker and induces a lot of grounders, but he's unlikely to become a starting pitcher in the majors."

Bubba: There is zero chance that Mosebach will be on the roster during the season.

Len39: There are indications that even if Peavy isn't going to the Cubs that Chicago will still enteratin offers for DeRosa.

And where do you see the Braves are leading for Burnett? Two reporters including Ken Rosenthal says the Yankees are the clear front-runners for Burnett.

Punto resigns with Twins so the dream of a Bruntlett upgrade is dead.

Yea i agree, Mosebach is just a body that they hope they strike lighting in a bottle with while he is in the minors.

Yeah, the Tribune couldn't afford to pay Peavy's salary because they needed the money to bribe the governor for stadium upgrades.

mvptommyd: This is probably my last post to you because you are so utterly clueless, but you understand what that means, right? The Mets get to keep the guy without having to waste a roster space on him. Mosebach has ZERO chance of making the Phillies and will have to be offered back to the Angels. At best he's filler for the LV rotation if the Angels don't want him back. O'Day might actually have some upside (although not much).

From what I read the ownership situation had absolutely nothing to do with the failure of the Peavy deal.

Hopefully the death of the Peavy trade now eliminates the possibility of the 4 headed Lambda (Jenkins), Lambda (Stairs), Lambda (Dobbs) and Omega De(Rosa) battalion (because a 4 player mix is too big to be a platoon).

From Jayson Stark:

"Phillies manager Charlie Manuel suggested Thursday that he'd be in favor of bringing back left fielder Pat Burrell if the price and years turn out to be more modest than the club originally anticipated."

"When I think of his good points versus his [negatives] speedwise," Manuel said, "the more I look at it and see what's out there … I weigh all that and I think, 'Look, we won the World Series with him out there. So would I like him back? I don't see why not.'"

clout: well since your a genious then you know it all. The angels probably won't want him back but at least he is HEALTHY. Who cares if he costs us a roster spot.

Do you know where our farm system places in the league. Close to or at LAST place! Who cares if he costs a roster spot if the guy can be a filler for a time period.

I guess we shouldn't pick then and just forget about finding a johan, victorino, soria, hamilton etc. in Clout's world. Oh no Roster spot!

Wow, 2 year $8.5MM to re-sign Punto. He's no even close to worth that. Dumb Twins! Thank goodness Rube didn't sign him though.

Am I nuts saying this?...if the guy stinks what's $25K to a baseball team? If he's not good enough they'll give him back.

BTW, here's a snippet of the Hamels interview (sure to get some press tomorrow).

Q: "Do you think the Mets are choke artists?"

Hamels: "Last year and this year I think we did believe that.....We're gonna always believe it until they prove us wrong."

Also, it isn't the 25 man roster he needs to be on, its the 40.

Rod, then Putz, who are the Mets going after next, the "Big Unit"?

Since clout's coming out for a late inning defensive replacement.. tommy, his points are 1) Mosebach appears to be no better than a career minor leaguer, really, and to make sure we retain rights to him he would have to spend the year on the 25 man roster, so who do you send to the minors to make that happen, and 2) the Mets, because the player they chose is injured, can put him on the 25, then on the DL, and carry him without actually having to give up a spot for him, which means that they can rehab him and see if he has anything to offer with no risk.

mvptommyd: Nope, it's the 25-Man.

Clout: How come no one picked your boy Slayden?

mvptommy: As lazarus points out, it is the 25-man roster, not the 40-man roster. And do you seriously believe there is even 1 chance in 10 million that a finesse pitcher with no command is going to turn into the next Johann Santana?

I don't think clout's point was that we shouldn't pick at all. I think his point was that we should have picked someone with some plausible upside, like the Mets did. Is that a fair point?

As I stated in the last thread, the Paulino acquisition and pending Park acquisition are probably moves to have additional players to add to trade packages. It's more likely that Paulino would be traded and Park used to replace a current Phil who is about to be traded because Park is a free agent who another team could have already signed without having to acquire through a trade. The Mosebach draft may be more of the same. The Phils may already have plans to add him to a trade package.

I still like the idea of a trade for the Cards Ludwick, Schumaker and Boggs who were almost traded to the Rockies for Atkins, Taveras and Torrealba. The Phils could approximate the Rockies offer to the Cards with Madson, Donald and Paulino. Of course, they could probably do something similar to acquire the trio the Rockies are trying to trade. Atkins, Taveras and Torrealba as Phils might also work. Atkins is predmoninantly a third baseman but he has played 2B and LF for the Rockies, and his .286 BA, 21 HRs and 99 RBIs are solid. The speedy outfielder, Taveras, could become a legitimate star if someone could only teach him how to bunt and slap for base hits. Torrealba is a very solid catcher.


I understand but right now he is on the 40 man. There are multiple options before we get to the point of keeping him, or else every team would draft injured guys. Because realistically none of these guys have good shots because they were left off their original teams 40 man rosters.

That being said, you have a long way before we get to the point of keeping.

RE: Hamels

I would have rather he said...

"I don't think they are Choke Artists. We were just the better team, two years in a row."

Jack: Because no AL team had hired me as GM yet! They didn't pick Jack Cust either when he was available a few years ago. I really do think Slayden is worth a look as a DH. He's yet to find a league where he can't hit. Must be a bias against players who are incapable of playing the field.

I think team's have to keep their Rule 5 picks on the active roster for 90 days, which would negate the Mets' DLing for the whole year option.

clout: Donald was a better hitter than Slayden at AA last year and is younger to boot. You seem to think Slayden could be a DH while Donald can't be an .800 OPS guy. What's the thought there?

Your right Brian. Thats why it didn't make sense for the mets to pick him, when he has a torn labrium and has to have it heal on his own, at least mosebach could develop into something or the angels will take him back because he can actually play!!!!!!

But clout and lazarus think that drafting guys on dl is smart.

"the player must also be on the active roster for 90 days (so you can’t select someone and stash him on the 60-day DL all season)"

Brian G: "I think team's have to keep their Rule 5 picks on the active roster for 90 days."

True, but not necessarily in the first year (i.e. the Mets can put him on the roster in September when rosters expand and then for 60 more days in 2010.)

mvp: Maybe an analogy would help. Have you ever walked past someone's house and seen an old, ugly, beaten-up piece of furniture siting out front, with a sign saying, "Free?" Did you take the furniture because it was free? Or did you just keep walking because, even for free, you wouldn't want it?

Robert Mosebach is like that old, ugly beaten-up piece of furniture except that, instead of being free, he costs $50,000. There were hundreds of guys available in the Rule 5 draft and surely a few of those players had some upside potential. If you're going to participate at all, why pick someone who has no plausible upside?

Contrary to your belief, picking a guy who can be stashed on the DL makes absolutely perfect sense. Anyone who is available in the Rule 5 draft is, by definition, a long-shot and, in all likelihood, a long-term project. If you draft an injured long-shot, you obtain the rights to the guy without having to put him on your 25-man roster for a full season. Maybe that guy can overcome his injury & be a decent player some day. If so, he'll be the property of the Mets when it happens.

Clout: By that logic, Ryan Howard could've passed through the Rule 5 draft fairly easily... : )

BrianG: My thought is that one season doesn't beat a career.

Great analogy, BAP.

Not to mention that, if he isn't on the roster for the requisite number of days, then his original team has to buy him back and often they don't.

Thanks Jeltz. I hope Robert Mosebach doesn't read this blog or I might have just hurt his feelings.

So are the Phillies going to sign Crane Kick Park to be their 5th starter (I hope not) or as their swing man from the pen (much more likely and palatable to me)?

Whatever, everyone has their opinions. But like the rule stats even though the mets or anyone put the guy on the DL for 60 days he still needs to be on the roster for 90 days.

So the phillies picked a guy healthy to see what he can do for 90 days now. Rather than the mets having to wait a couple years with him there.

Also, to be perfectly clear, this is what I wrote: "I really do think Slayden is worth a look as a DH."

Brian G wants to twist that into "I think Slayden is a better prospect than Donald." But that is false.

Trouble in paradise already!?!

I'm glad to hear that Nick Punto just resigned with the Twins for 2 years and $8.5 million. I was worried the sepculation about the Phils signing him might come true. I can't believe that the Phils were considering Punto who had 2 HRs and 21 RBIs last year, and not actively pursuing Ty Wigginton who had 28 HRs and 53 RBIs last year and would cost the same amount of money. The Astros are in some financial trouble and have even considered non-tendering Wigginton to free up salary which means it probably wouldn't take much of a trade by the Phils to acquire him. The Astros are looking for an inexepnsice utility infielder. A trade of Eric Bruntlett, with maybe a lower-tier pitching prospect thrown in, might be all that it takes to acquire Wigginton, his bat, his ability to play 2B, SS, 3B and LF, and his hardnose style of play.

Another interesting situation continues to develop around my top pick to replace Pat Burrel - Manny Ramirez. Manny recently stated that he is disappointed with the lack of interest in his services and may even consider retiring. His only offer thus far has been the 2 year, $45 million offer by the Dodgers. I can't believe, he wouldn't consider 2 years and $50 million or 3 years and $60 million to be managed by his old hitting coach, to hit homers out of Citizens Bank Park and to win the World Series a few more times.

Finally, it appears that the Royals are still listening for interest in Zack Greinke. The Phils are starting to stockpile players, including pitchers and catchers and could probably put together a nice package for Greinke. The kid is 24 years old with a 13-10 record, 3.47 ERA and 183 Ks in 2008. Grab this kid and you can forget about the other guys who everyone else is chasing, save a ton of money in the process and add to your starting rotation a youngster who could stay there for many years and win many games in the process.

"J.J. Putz does not want to be a setup man, according to his agent, Craig Landis."


mvptommyd: I swore I'd stop responding but when you just post a total lie, I can't help myself. The rules does NOT say you have to put the guy on a roster for 90 days in his first season. If the guy is hurt, you DON'T have to put him on the roster. He just carries over on the 40-man until next season. But then, assuming he's healthy, the 90-day rule kicks in. Thus the Mets could put him on in sepetember when rosters expand and then carry the other 60 days owed to 2010 by which time they'll have a better sense of whether they want to keep him. Get it?

Um...since when does Ty Wigginton play short? Not to say that I'm not advocating improving on the Gnome as the Phils' utility guy, but J-Roll needs a break every once in a while.

I get it, but i agree with what the phillies are doing, Do you get it?

Jeltz: Wigginton never plays short. He's barely adequate at 2B and 3B. Anyone who's suggesting him as a replacement for Bruntlett doesn't know what he's talking about. Obviously the team needs a backup SS, whether it's Gnome or whoever.

Jeltz - This is from

Before the trade was announced, Putz's agent, Craig Landis, said the right-hander wanted to remain a closer. But Minaya said he spoke with Putz, who was excited about his new team and role.

"It's a new challenge and I'm excited about it," Putz said, according to the Seattle Times. "I'm going to a new team that's going to be very competitive. Frankie's a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen.""

From what, it sounds like Putz is fine with being a setup guy. Are you seeing something more recent?

mvptommyd: I have no problem with what the Phils are doing in drafting Mosebach. My intial post was to correct your incorrect post about the Mets having to keep an injured pitcher on their 25.

What's the over/under on what it would take to sign Ben Sheets? I'm thinking a one year $13 million offer might get it done. Not that the guy is ever healthy or that he'd be willing to come to CBP, but he's an ace when he actually is healthy. I'd think about making him an offer (provided the Yankees don't get him, of course).

Well my original point was that drafting injured players although it gives you a little wiggle room for now, ultimately isn't the best option in my opinion.

No, do not want sheets. If you want to offer anyone anything. I would use the money on a pitcher and give cole a contract. I think you should sign burrell, the give cole a contract long term.

I really, really don't like this:
"Indications are that Ibanez could sign soon, with the Phillies the leading contender and the Angels, Cubs and Mets also believed to be involved. even throws the Nationals into the mix. It's likely that Ibanez will get a three-year deal, probably one worth in excess of $11 million per year. He's thought to prefer Philadelphia as a destination."

RE: Putz... No, I haven't heard anything new, but I suppose it was wishful thinking that this great move by Minaya would blow up in his face. Quite frankly, the Mets have turned a big negative for them into a big plus.

Just wait and hang on for PtB. That's the best strat, no foolin'

I'd rather spend $32M for 2 years of Pat Burrell than $33M for 3 years of Ibanez. The team would have absolutely nothing from the right side beyond Werth.

clout: Cry me a river. I didn't twist sh*t, and never implied you said that. However..

1. Donald has outperformed Slayden for not 1, but 2 consecutive years(and is two years younger), which is also over 75% of Donald's career professional games played.
2. You believe Slayden should've been picked up in the Rule 5 draft, implying you think he could stick with an AL team for a year as a DH. Well, DH's tend to have OPSs of at least .800, or they lose their job. But when I said I thought Donald could be an .800 OPS guy, you responded with incredulity.
Thems the facts.

Why the rush to offer Cole a contract? He's under team control for 3 more years and has expressed a desire to go year to year. Unless it's a team-friendly deal, it's foolish to offer him a contract. Offering Sheets a ONE-YEAR deal shouldn't have an effect on Hamels at all. Now granted, it would most likely have an effect on the Phils pursuit of a non-platooning left fielder.

ok, clout...Why don't you like ibanez now?

What is 43 doubles,110 RBI's 110 Strikeouts .293 average not good enough?

By the way his worst hitting year he hit .280

"THURSDAY: Todd Zolecki says the Phillies "are working on hammering out a deal with pitcher Park, who would work in relief."

Well...that's a relief.

RE: Ibanez

1) He's older than PtB.
2) His fielding is nearly as bad as PtB's.
3) He's LEFT-HANDED!!!

Adding another left-handed bat to this team doesn't make a whole lot of sense with Chase and Ryan, does it?


For moral confidence. Sabathia just got 23 a yr., johan has similar and he is the WS MVP. Somehow I doubt he said he wants to go yr to yr. He wants to go year to year because he will leave after the 3 years so make him sign now. 7 years/ 145 million. Bam done

But ibanez hits .270 career against lefties while ptb hits .250 against righties.

Thats why you have the lineup be


mvp: We have Hamels under our control for 4 more years. Your 7yr/145mil number makes no sense unless you want to pay him around 90 mil for the final 3 yrs.

For the life of me, I can't figure out this Ibanez move. He's 36, a leftie, costs more than Pat, and will cost us a 1st round draft pick. Charlie said it best, "We won the WS with him out there..." We can hit Ibanez 6th behind Werth to split up him and Howard, but how does it make sense other than that? I think we'll be just as good with him as with Pat in left next year, but the other factors make this a bad idea, and personally I'm all for giving the tie to sentimentality when it comes to defending your title. Just bring back The Bat.

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