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Tuesday, December 16, 2008


Gomes is kinda a TTO guy - a younger, righty Matt Stairs. At first I didn't like this idea but I think I'd prefer Willy Taveras. He's righty, can cover CF if necessary and is fast.

Velocity slays.

OTOH, if teams bring in a LOOGY, it'd be nice to scare them into taking him out by sending Gomes to the on deck circle.

Wow. I was just looking at Gomes splits? Against RHP he has gotten 187 hits, and has 286 Ks.

That's kinda hard to do.

From Rotoworld on the formal announcement of Ibanez signing:

"Ibanez at $31.5 million wouldn't have been completely unreasonable for a team with a hole at first base or DH that needed a left-handed bat for the middle of the order. The Phillies, though, hardly fit that description. Say what you will about Pat Burrell's streakiness, but the numbers were usually there in the end and the team did just win a World Series with him batting behind Ryan Howard. Now the Phillies have gone and replaced him with someone older, just as expensive and at least as poor defensively. Plus, Ibanez is left-handed, which will give managers plenty of easy calls in how to approach the middle of the lineup any time after the fifth inning. If new GM Ruben Amaro Jr. is just going to sign the guys he likes, regardless of how they fit in with his team, then playing into October won't become a habit for the Phillies."

clout: we are well aware of everything, I am done debating this issue.

On this topic, I am not sure on gomes. But how about a player like Aaron miles, he even switch hits!

Ryan Howard against lefties - 165 Hits and 288 Ks in 808 PAs.

Didn't we accuse Pat G of only signing guys that he "likes"

Yup. NEPP, I just came back here to post that. I wonder if this means Gomes is better than I thought or Howard is worse...

I think Gomes fits well with our team. I mentioned him a few threads back and people mostly seem to think he is cooked because of his terrible season last year.

Probably true.

Gomes is too weak defensivly. We need someone with a little bit of speed as our bench is ridiculously slow as it is currently constructed.

Again- I'm pretty sure Ibanez was a Gillick move. Raul Ibanez is supposedly one of Gillick's favorite players...but, the Ibanez debate beyond boring. I hope he wins the triple crown and gold glove.

"Didn't we accuse Pat G of only signing guys that he "likes""

Yes, CY now people in here are accusing Amaro of signing guys that "Gillick Liked" with the signing of Ibanez.

Nepp - for that I liked Gathright, but he got signed by the cubs. Maybe Corey Patterson? Did he get DFA?

Why bother with Gomes? Lets give Mayberry a shot. Charlie thinks he can shorten his swing...

Yeah its not like Gillick was sitting right next to Amaro through the entire winter meetings. oh wait

Good point Baxter.. the BLer slogan should be "In Gillick We Trust". Oh wait thats too positive.I mean after all what has he done for us?

I kid I kid, just joking everyone.Don't want anyone to get hot under the collar.

Read on MLBTR today that the market for Burrell is guessed to be at about 2 years with a 3rd year option at 10-11 million per year. Meaning he would be the same yearly price, with a better contract, than Raul Ibanez. Mvptommyd, if this happens, it takes away your primary justification for the Ibanez signing, that he was cheaper. Will you admit that it might have been a bad move?

ESPN news is reporting that Furcal is about to sign with the Braves. He has to prove he can stay healthy for me to worry about it, but this now gives the Braves some nice middle infield defense.

Also, anyone else concerned with how old and unathletic the Phillies are looking off the bench now?

I agree our right handed bat should have speed. So for that I think tavaras would be good or adding miles would be ideal too.

If we sign another right-handed power hitter, the Mayberry-Golson trade was a bad idea. With a slow LF who can't play defense, Golson actually would've been useful. By most accounts, Mayberry is slow and bad defensively. The one thing Mayberry can do is hit LHP for power, so if we sign Gomes, we would've been better off keeping the younger, faster, more versatile OF. It would make more sense to sign a Willy Tavernas/Joey Gathright type for pinch running and defensive substitutions.

Who was young and athletic on the bench last year?

I'd rather the Phillies resign Wayne Gomes than go after Jonny Gomes.

Dobbs- slow
Coste- slow
Stairs- slow

At least we have the blazing average speed of Favre and the Gnome.


If Burrells contract is less then Ibanez's, also he doesn't tear the cover off the ball with left handed pitchers, which is everyone's primary concern, then yes I will admit I was wrong.

I'm still very curious to see how the catcher situation plays out. Any thoughts out there? To the topic at hand, Gomes could be useful to the team, and his absolutely awful 08 could make him a bargain if he reverted to career norm in 09.

Is Jonny Gomes a medic?

Tavares would be a good fit. I think he will be looking for a better situation (starting) and will probably be too expensive.

Gathright was only 800K. Missed that one.


I think coste is eithier going to be traded OR go back and forth between AAA and the phils. But i do not think he will be used as a catcher this year, his role with the Phils will be primarily to be a bat off the bench. With that being said I think MOST the catching duties will be Paulino and Ruiz.

Also, not a huge fan of Gomes. If we want to use stats (which is ok, i have come to grips with it) look at them, all his years aren't that impressive. Compare his to Miles, also miles is better defensively.

Is it a given that the Phills will carry 3 catchers?

"Is it a given that the Phills will carry 3 catchers?"

no, of course not. Actually highly doubt they will do that. Thats why it doesn't look good for Mr. Coste right now.

I doubt they will...I'm betting that Coste is gone via trade or outright release before the start of the season.

Coste will get picked up by somebody as a viable backup..

I sure hope we get all the Johnny Gomes talk out of the way today, so we don't have to discuss it on BAP Day. BAP Day is a day for complaining about the fact that we're not getting Manny Ramirez or Mark Teixeira. To spend BAP Day fantasizing over a guy who hit .182 last year would be like burning a figurine of George Washington on President's Day.

NEPP, I can see him in AAA, or traded far more easily than an outright release. His value isn't much, but there are teams out there that could use some security at that position. (Tigers, Red Sox come to mind)


I am sure I will have my work cut out for me then tomorrow

Actually, mvptommy, we seem to have achieved some common ground in the last 5 minutes. Neither of us is a Jonny Gomes fan, and we both think Aaron Miles would be a good acquisition.

BAP I pledge not to spend BAP Day over-discussing low talent players, but will instead talentlessly discuss over-priced ones. Not an opportunity to be squandered. ;)

I'd say Miles would be a fine upgrade over Brunt, but imagine some team with a greater need at the position will give him more than the Phillies would.

I didn't think so but I saw you mention that he could be a bat off the bench. In order for that to happen, either Ruiz or Paulino would have to get hurt.

"burning a figurine of George W...on President's Day"

See? A little mproper editing and that doesn't sound half bad.

Can Aaron Miles play OF?

Don't the Phils need a RH OF with (at least some) power? Taveras would be nice but he doesn't have that. His speed would be an asset though.

Golson is gone and I say good riddance. Don't think he ever was going to amount to anything.

Jonny Gomes stinks. If you want guy like him as the 5th outfielder, you might as well see what Mayberry can do... Someone mentioned that a scouting report they saw said Mayberry was a bad defender. The reports I read said he was a decent outfielder at both RF and LF.

Jonny Gomes stinks. If you want guy like him as the 5th outfielder, you might as well see what Mayberry can do... Earlier someone mentioned a scouting report they saw that said Mayberry was a bad defender. The reports I read said he was a decent outfielder at both RF and LF.

mikes77: Damn. First post of yours I've ever read that was almost 100% right. I don't think there's any reason to believe Mayberry's bat is ready for the majors, but he IS a pretty good defender with an arm good enough to play major league RF right now.

Appropriate BAP Day topics:

Mark Teixeira
Manny Ramirez
Derek Lowe
Jake Peavy
Adam Dunn
Pat Burrell
Bobby Abreu (but NOT the 2006 trade!)
Edgar Renteria


Miles plays everything except catcher. He's pitched 3 innings (2 ER) in his career. Played all three OF spots and everything in the IF except 1B. Presumably if he can play 4, 5, and 7, he can play 3.

clout - I was about to agree with 77 on Mayberry's (unfairly maligned) defense then saw you had. Still, I like piling on. Mayberry is supposed to be decent to good at corner OF.

CJ, maybe we can all pick a particular player and get BAP fired up about him..

CJ - If I want to imagine a deal where we send Ibanez back to Seattle, along with Pete Happy, and get Adrian Beltre, am I allowed to do that on b-a-p day?

(P.S. Does it start at 3 am Eastern time? Or noon, maybe, since that's when b-a-p is supposed to be at work?)

Andy: Yes. That's appropriate.

Any unreasonable trade suggestion (i.e. Chris Coste for Zack Greinke) is acceptable.

Do you think we'd have to toss in a pitcher, say Adam Eaton, to ease that Coste trade through?

To add my two cents to NEPP's point from the last thread..
If last summer God made me an offer that the Phillies could trade their entire farm system for Joe Blanton, and my little sister would have to play SS for the IronPigs next year, and Adrian Cardenas became the next Pujols and Carrasco the next Maddux, but we would be guaranteed the 2008 World Series championship... I would've accepted the offer in a heartbeat.

Andy: That'd be a tough deal for Amaro to swallow.

Brian - She got the arm for short? I saw her more as a 2b.

Anyone hear Chase's interview on Mike Missanelli today?

On the whole WFC thing:

"I don't regret saying it, but I know I'm a role model for kids and they shouldn't say it."

I lost some respect for him today. Don't tell people you know you're a role model if you refuse to apologize for your actions. What you're telling kids is it's ok for YOU to say it, but not them.

Andy: Not really, and I agree with you. But the deal I made with God included clout being named GM, and he feels the footwork required at 2b is too complicated for her to make the transition.

Andy: I heard she has a bat for LF if the middle infield doesn't work out.

YBF: He has said earlier that he'd tell kids that if they're 29 years old and win the World Series then it's ok for them to say it. Otherwise, they shouldn't. I think that's fair position to take.

the whole production around Utley's word choice seems silly at this point. And I agree with's an adult word spoken by an adult.

He's allowed to drive a car or legally buy a beer...what would he say to the children he's a role model to concerning those activities?

and oh yeah...Johnny fvckin Gomes? really?


Now now . . . My modus operandi is not to propose ridiculous trades, but to be reflexively pessimistic and critical of management. On BAP Day, you are all free to lambast the Phillies for not entering the Jake Peavy trade sweepstakes. You are all free to predict that, without Peavy, this team is sure to lose 120 games next year. But you are NOT free to propose that we trade Adam Eaton and Pete LaForest for Jake Peavy.

BAP: Well... I don't think everything on BAP Day should reflect directly on you. I figured it was fair game as long as it involved a criticism of management. You're right, however, that it would be more appropriate to complain about not dealing for Peavy than to suggest an unrealistic deal. Point taken!

We'll only lose 120 if we're guess is 37-125 for the 2009 season.


"He's allowed to drive a car or legally buy a beer...what would he say to the children he's a role model to concerning those activities?"

Right, but should be be driving 100 MPH or getting wasted in front of little kids?

Point being, I don't care what he does in the privacy of his own home or in private company. When you're out with the public, you should behave appropriately. Talking, driving, and drinking in moderation in front of children is fine. Cursing, speeding, and getting bombed aren't.

Shut up Troll.

Hey thanks for the intelligent response.

I like PtB as much as the next guy, and would still like to have him back. That said, there was no way in hell he was taking a pay cut before or during the winter meetings. Unfortunately, his hitting 15 points above the Mendoza line after the ASB did him in.

CJ: I see your point and I agree with it. BAP Day is not about me. It's about criticizing management. Besides, the Padres' catching situation is a disaster & how many teams out there can boast of having a catcher who bats left-handed? LaForest would really help them. And Eaton's best days were with the Padres. If anyone could turn him around, it's the Padres -- and, if they're unsuccessful, they would still benefit from the payroll flexibility that will come when Eaton's contract expires after 2009. I have it on good word that the Padres' GM was ready to deal Peavy for Eaton & LaForest, but Amaro turned it down. It's a disgrace.

Rotoworld sums up my thoughts on the Ibanez signing perfectly. It's not that the value or signing is necessarily a bad one- it's that the Phillies have no viable place for him if the wheels fall off in a year or two.

He'd be a contract we can't unload and have nowhere to go. I think offensively he'll be fine, but he'll be a bigger liability defensively and we have to hope he stays relatively healthy for the duration of the contract.

YBF: Come off it. It is ok for Utley to say it, and it's not okay for little kids to say that word. If you're paretns were worth their salt they would tell you the same thing. Do what we say to do, and not what others say to do.

It has been established that it's ok for some to say it. However, there are times when it shouldn't be said at all, and one of those times is in the presence of hundreds of children.

The fact that he refused to apologize was mind boggling.

I'd much, much rather my children grow up to be like Jose Reyes, who will never in his life get to make a speech following a parade.

Reyes? Seriously?

Some of you guys are unreal. Why do I get the feeling that if Utley was caught murdering baby seals that some of you guys would defend him to the death?

YBF why don't you and your faux outrage go back to metsblog. and yeah thats really comparable a grown man saying a "curse word" to someone clubbing a baby seal.

YBF why don't you and your faux outrage go back to metsblog. and yeah thats really comparable a grown man saying a "curse word" to someone clubbing a baby seal.

If it's not OK for Utley to swear, then it shouldn't be write for people's internet nicknames be "Yoo? Buck Foo" lest some child ask their parent what that means and the parent, who must answer truthfully and completely, ends up cussing his kid out.

FWIW, I would defend Utley if I found him clubbing baby seals...

I once had a conversation about what it would take for Utley to lose my support. I think it was down to either dumping puppies in boiling water or me walking in on Chase with my fiance...or some sick combination of the two.

Why are we even discussing Chase's dropping the F bomb? It was the exception to his usual professional manner. I'd much rather have a kid hear someone who is 99.999% a professional lapse and cuss on TV than have him watch a player act unprofessionally before, during, and after every game. Would you rather have your child emulate Chase or Manny? Chase or Reyes? Chase or Bonds? Perspective!

Now, back to the business at hand.

My wishlist looks like this:

Aaron Miles
Juan Cruz

Any other news on anyone we're going after?

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