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Friday, December 05, 2008

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Unheralded pitch: Blanton's in-and-out fastball. Kentucky Joe had good life on it and keep it out of the middle of the plate. Crawford's homer was off a good pitch.

Unheralded pitch No. 2: Madson's changeup, only because much more was made of his mid-90s fastball.

Unheralded bench asset: Eric Bruntlett. Involved in more combined WS highlights than Dobbs, Coste, Jenkins, Stairs, Taguchi.

I know many like to bash Pedro Feliz (including myself sometimes), but he was crucial part of the World Series win, and I hope he's back healthy to start the season, because we need his defense and bat against lefties.

pedro definitely came up huge all series, glove and bat wise

As you alluded to above, JW, the finishing blow in game 5 was delivered by Pedro as well. With a man on 3rd and Chad Bradford on the hill, was there anyone on the Phillies roster you would want up in that position any less than Pedro?
I mean it shows the disrespect given to him by Joe Maddon, as in that situation the Rays didn't even try to walk him to set up the double play and get out of the inning unscathed. Instead, Maddon instructed Bradford to attack the hitter. Thankfully, Feliz wasted no time in ripping a pitch right back up the middle and getting us the win in game 5.5

It's clear that featuring a thread dedicated exclusively to Pedro Feliz could lead directly to the constant in-fighting between the Feliz-supporters and the anti-Feliz faction; still, I would urge those who are always eager to knock Pedro down a few pegs because of his deficiencies to wait until a different thread in which to continue the bashing. At least we can all agree that Pedro was a major contributor to this team's success all season in the field, as well as at the plate in the World Series when it mattered most.

That DP was #5 on the http://www.thegoodphight.com/2008/12/3/679332/when-did-it-all-go-right>The Good Phight's list of top 10 turning points in the postseason.

Jack: (From last thread) I'm happy to see your views line up with Keith Law's. Mine don't. Seems like you don't get that concept.

diggity: "Pedro was a major contributor to this team's success all season in the field, as well as at the plate in the World Series when it mattered most."

I don't think anyone would disagree. My beef is with the idiots on here who think he should start vs. RHP.

"It's clear that featuring a thread dedicated exclusively to Pedro Feliz could lead directly to the constant in-fighting between the Feliz-supporters and the anti-Feliz faction"

Just wait until JW's next posts: "Without trading Abreu, the Phillies would have never won the World Series", soon to be followed by "Pat Burrell: Washed up!" and "Why we should trade Ryan Howard NOW!"

FWIW, most of the articles I've seen about Delmon Young say the Twins don't want to trade him for crap because that would mean they got nothing in return for Garza.

Are we sure that, after his AFL performance, the Phillies are ready to cut bait on Donald? They know Howard is gone in three years. The plan as I understand it is to move Utley there, in part to get him out of the high-injury 2B position. In other words, Donald could figure too much in the Phillies future, in their minds, to dangle as trade bait.

Of course, we could always rush that plan by TRADING RYAN HOWARD NOW!

To the point of this post, JW, I have to agree that Feliz wins the "most unheralded "award. He came up big in some crucial spots.


From the previous thread:

"""As an index for where we stand, the 2008 regular season is a much more meaningful measure. By that index, we are slightly better than the Mets, if Pat Burrell comes back & if Jamie Moyer comes back & pitches as he did last year. Since neither of those scenarios is the least bit likely, and since the Mets appear almost certain to address their one critical Achilles heel from 2008, it's more than fair to be concerned that our front office doesn't appear motivated to keep up.

Posted by: bay_area_phan | Thursday, December 04, 2008 at 03:28 PM """


bap, I think if you evaluate where the team stands "right now", you have to look at not just the entirety of the 2008 season, but more importantly, how they fared after the late season roster moves.

Blanton has now replaced Adam Eaton. The impact of that cannot, and should not, be understated. I am of the opinion that if Blanton had been in the rotation all season it would have translated into 2-3 mnre wins.

Also, Happ looks to challenge Kendrick and 'whoever' for the 5th spot. While KK got out of the gates well, his late season implosion, along with Eaton's, put significant stress on the bullpen at one point. If Happ, or another SP, had been in the rotation all season, what would the impact have been?

So, with no Burrell, the offense will suffer, and I am on record as saying they will not contend unless they replace his bat. I did add one caveat, and that is if the SP improves dramatically enough to offset the drop in offense, thereby allowing them to maintain their run differential.

David Murphy's most recent "High Cheese" post sheds some light on this, and the potential direction the Phillies are headed.


Definitely worth a read.

Beerleaguer, bless your heart.

Carson: I like your post today, and your offseason scenario.

Feliz and Utley definitely didn't play hurt in the World Series. Readers don't like when words like "grit" and "toughness" are tossed around, but the Phils had some of that in October. As for Feliz, he made a formidable impact on the club last season, with the glove and a nice share of big hits.

I don't know if trading Donald for a guy like Young would be "cutting bait", more like getting value*.

*obviously, we don't know if that would get it done, anyway.

The post Weitzel is referring to is at this link.

"I am of the opinion that if Blanton had been in the rotation all season it would have translated into 2-3 mnre wins."

And I'm of the opinion that if we hadn't cut off negotiations with Lohse because we hate his agent, and had signed him for 1 year, $5-6 million, it would have translated into 5-6 more wins.

I was skeptical of Blanton at first, but I am damn glad he'll be our 3rd or 4th starter next year, I could easily see him posting 14-16 wins.

Lohse turned down a 3 year deal. F him. He was also Co-President of the Anti-CBP fan club, also.

I'll take Blanton's 2008 postseason over Lohse's 2007 postseason, thanks!

Alby: at the time I was pretty pist at the phillies too, for letting pride get in the way of signing Lohse once he was down to just asking for a 1 year deal. In retrospect of course everything worked out perfect, but i too agree that lohse would have made the phillies a better team.

Thanks for the tip of the hat to Feliz. An unheralded player, he has taken his share of abuse here (much of it merited). But he did contribute at some key times during the season and most notably, during the series.

I agree, I often groaned when he came to the plate during a potential rally. But I have to say, it was nice when you would see a grounder come off the bat of an opposing player and head toward third, that it would not turn into a Helmsesque debacle, and would probably be a routine play for Pedro.

This is the money graph from Murphy's piece today on the front office:

"When I started in Seattle we were unknowns," Looper said. "In 2001, we won 116 games and had a good stretch there. A lesson learned is that you have to keep adding players. You can't rest on your laurels. You have to keep adding players, you have to keep developing players, you have to keep making good trades. You can't let up on that."
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20081205_Phillies_new_leadership_team_gathers.html

I think that this also explains Ruben Amaro's words on sentimentality that some found unnerving. But I am sure Red Sox fans felt the same way about No-Mahh in 2004. That being said, if we don't make a major upgrade in the starting rotation and let Moyer and Burrell walk and we just roll the dice on some discounted talents for the rotation and LF, then we should have some "business" with the new GM. (Still, all of this talk about Amaro as a lackey seems overblown to me, he was just executing the guidance of his former bosses Wade and Gillick. In some corners such lackey-ness might be called loyalty. We need to give him some time to figure out his particular modus operandi.)

JW - I think this post examplifies why this is the best site out there.

Very controversial subject here but worthy of much discussion and debate.

October (and now November) are the month(s) of heroes and goats. Amazing one or two plays in these atypical baseball-friendly times can create pardons or life-time sentences.

Given that Phils probably would not have obtained Blanton otherwise, passing on Lohse ended up working out okay.

At the time, however, it was a disappointing moment for Gillick in that it was a rare instance where he let his pride and bias impact what was best for the team.

"At the time, however, it was a disappointing moment for Gillick in that it was a rare instance where he let his pride and bias impact what was best for the team."

Do we know that "pride and bias" got in the way?

BBeard: considering they offered him a 3yr deal worth over 7 mil per year prior to free agency and then Lohse declined and went to the open market.... there had to be some kind of bias or pride involved if the same exact pitcher in the same exact offseason came back looking for a 1 year deal under 7mil per was turned down.

I missed BL last night with family responsibilities. It's good to know that the site continues to have spot on analysis without my input. In particular this:

Yeah, but he [Delmon Young] didn't just throw it, he hit him [the umpire]. Shows good bat control.

Posted by: Alby

I loved this post.


Passing on Lohse did work out. They won the World Series. As in the World Series.

There were many great moments during the WS. Let's not forget Jenkins lead off Double in Game 5 Part 2 to take the lead back! The rest is history now...

He was very disappointing all year, but not a bad time to come up big...

bobbyd: every person who posts about Lohse has said that 'it all worked out in the end', we're simply saying that at the time kyle lohse would have made the phillies a better team and could have been acquired rather easily. and yes - i wouldn't change a thing either since we won the WS, but that doesnt mean that every single move the Phils made was for the better.

We signed Adam Eaton, we won the World Series.. so therefore, makes Eaton a very good decision - ehh dont think so.

BobbyD: "Passing on Lohse did work out. They won the World Series. As in the World Series."

Well then, nothing the Phillies did last year was a mistake, right?

For some reason, that Jenkins hit is the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about Game 5.

Anyway, Lohse road stats, 2008:

83 1/3 IP, 104 Hits, 4.43 ERA, .311 BA against.

Post AS stats:

80 IP, 91 hits, 4.35 ERA.

Nate18: that was by far one of the best moments of the year. Has there EVER been a more anxiously awaited AB in Philadelphia Phillies franchise history?

I dont think any AB has ever been analyzed and debated over so much. Two days of pure speculation of who will hit and who will pitch and close to worthless 2008 Geoff Jenkins walks up and strokes a double to the wall, and the entire crowd just ignites. went from 30º to a hot August afternoon very quickly.

Nate18: "Let's not forget Jenkins lead off Double in Game 5 Part 2 to take the lead back!"

That had a helluva lot more to do with the Phils winning the WS than anything on Jason's list above.

thephaithful:

I tend to agree/understand your first part, but adding this lost me:

"We signed Adam Eaton, we won the World Series.. so therefore, makes Eaton a very good decision - ehh dont think so."

Too big of a stretch. Adding Blanton so Kendrick and Eaton wouldn't pitch again, (helped)led to the World Series.

In the long run, not signing that 3 year deal helped Lohse, and IMHO the Phils. Lohse went out and had a great year and cashed in. Would he have been so determined to pitch well if he had a 3 year deal? I say he'd return to mediocrity.

Buster Olney on with Jody Mac now.

EF: Glad you posted that. Those stats are way more important than 15-6, 3.78.

BedBeard: Wow, you can predict what Lohse would've done with the Phils, a better team, and he would've done worse? What does your magic crystal ball say about the stock market?

I don't buy this whole idea that "pride" is what kept the Phils from going back to Kyle Lohse. That's just stupid.

Pat Gillick wanted to win a World Series. He always wants to win the World Series. He's really going let his own personal pride get in the way of improving the team?

After making the most generous offer Lohse received in the entire offseason, isn't it reasonable to believe that Lohse decided he didn't want to pitch in Philly under any circumstance?

What pitcher really wants to hinge their future stability on a one-year deal in what's perceived as the ultimate hitters park (outside Colorado)?

Lohse HATED CBP. I think it's a lot more likley that he wouldn't have pitched a year in Philly than Gillick's pride prevented a 1-year offer.

BBeard: i was using Eaton as an example as to why you can't use the logic: Phils won world series = everything they've ever done was for the better.

"BedBeard: Wow, you can predict what Lohse would've done with the Phils, a better team, and he would've done worse? What does your magic crystal ball say about the stock market"

Clout: You're the guy who was whining about not having Padilla for the last year or two and how he went "X-X" and would look great as as a Phil. Thus, getting your "crystal ball" out. Get over yourself. And for you, I recommend you invest heavily in GM stock. You remind me of their CEO.

thephaithful: "I dont think any AB has ever been analyzed and debated over so much. "

I completely agree...that AB was over analyzed for days to the point that I couldn't take it anymore.

Jenkins earned a ton of respect back after that smash, and hopefully some more confidence going into next season.

Pitcher and Catchers is around the corner...

GM-Carson - Where/How did you know about Fundies?

Like your scenario too but I doubt that a package of only Myers and Donald gets you Rios. Likely have to sweeten the pot with at least another good/very good pitching prospect.

In fairness to the Phillies, 28 other teams also declined to sign Lohse when he was sitting out there unsigned until February. I don't think Pat Gillick's stubbornness is the explanation. The explanation is that teams pretty much have their opening day payroll set by February. A one-year, $5M contract for a decent pitcher is no doubt a great bargain in today's market. But it's still $5M and, if you give out the contract in February, it means having to go $5M above budget. Not too many teams are going to be willing to do that.

I'm not trying to excuse the failure to sign Lohse, because I thought it was a mistake then and it still looks like a mistake in retrospect. But I'm pretty sure that it had nothing to do with stubbornness and everything to do with money.

Rosenthal's latest article that was linked to on MLBTR has an interesting note- it states that Jason Donald is starting to garner interest in trade value among numerous teams in the league.

The fact that Donald is being considered as trade bait by OTHER teams is much better news than hearing it from just the Phils. He may hold more value than we're giving him credit for.

Don't know if someone else mentioned this, but Ken Rosenthal says:

"Phillies minor-league shortstop Jason Donald is drawing significant trade interest after posting an .889 OPS at Class AA last season and putting up big numbers in the Arizona Fall League. Donald, 24, is backed up behind Phillies shortstop Jimmy Rollins and second baseman Chase Utley, but the Phillies might need Donald to open the season at second with Utley coming off surgery on his right hip."

BedBeard: You thought the Padilla trade was a good one? That figures. You also thought the Abreu trade was a good one.

CJ: That's good to read.

BedBeard: You thought the Padilla trade was a good one? That figures. You also thought the Abreu trade was a good one.

Not the specific top we're talking about. Nice try.

BedBeard: Then you agree with me the Padilla trade was a bad one? I can understand why you'd want to avoid this topic, but was just wonderin'.

BAP - Agreed. I thought it was foolish that the Phils didn't resign Lohse when his demands fell through the floor but at that point most teams had already set their payroll for the year (including the Phils). As you stated, $5M bucks is still $5M bucks. Not like it was just another $750k or $1M.

MG: And again, I'll remind people, it's just as possible that Lohse did NOT want to risk his future on a one-year deal in Philly. Perception suggests it's a lot easier to pitch elsewhere (like St. Louis).

The full top 50 prospects is up at MLB.com.

As a reminder... Lou Marson checks in at 43 and Carlos Carrasco checks in at 28. Our seemingly hottest prospect right now, Jason Donald, did not make the list.

Four teams had no player make the list (White Sox, Twins, Astros, Nationals).

Eleven teams had one prospect including the Mets (Fernando Martinez at #32, down from #17 last year), Boston, Anaheim and the Cubs.

Seven teams other than Philly had two prospects including the Yankees and Dodgers.

Five teams had three prospects including Atlanta (highest being #3 Jason Heyward) and Florida (highest being #5 Cameron Maybin).

Two teams had four prospects, Tampa Bay (highest being #1 David Price) and Baltimore (highest being #2 Matt Wieters).

This is interesting:

"We're hopeful that Jamie can be with us. That said, we have explored a variety of different ways to add pitching, especially starting pitching. And Jamie is not the only priority." - Ruben Amaro

CJ: "As a reminder... Lou Marson checks in at 43 and Carlos Carrasco checks in at 28. Our seemingly hottest prospect right now, Jason Donald, did not make the list."

How can that possibly be? The infallible Keith Law ranks him #1! Where's Jack???

Still on Lohse . . . There's really no way to know how the season would have played out if we had signed him. Would he have been as good for the Phillies as he was for the Cardinals? Would he have pitched as well in the post-season as Blanton did? And what would have happened when Myers got sent down or when KK melted down at the end of the year? Would Happ have still been the replacement or would the Phillies have reflexively gone to Adam Eaton (assuming he wasn't already in their rotation, instead of Kendrick)? Or would we still have traded for Blanton since, at the time, the front office seemed to have little faith in Happ (still seems to have little faith in him, for that matter)?

I WILL say this though. Until last year, Lohse had been the epitome of average throughout his whole career. And until last year, Blanton had posted career numbers that were well above average. Of course, it's quite possible that Lohse's 2007 season was a breakout. But I've always maintained that if an average major league starting pitcher has a 10-year career, chances are pretty good he's going to have about one to two excellent years along the way (classic examples off the top of my head: Paul Abbott, Jon Garland, Jason Marquis, Steve Stone). I say Kyle Lohse just had it, and he'll revert to being an average pitcher again next year. Likewise, it's possible that Blanton, despite his strong finish, will never be the same pitcher in CB Park as he was in Oakland Coliseum. But, based on career norms, I predict that Blanton will be a better pitcher than Lohse next year.

clout: I doubt Jack is a Jason Donald supporter. Donald's defense is substandard.

Feliz (along with Bruntlett, Stairs, and Ruiz) all had some very big and unlikely key plays in the playoffs.

I am still actually more worried about Feliz next year than Utley. Utley may miss more time but just worried that Feliz is going to be able to stay healthy/productive.

I could easily see a season marred by time on the DL with related leg/back issues that limit him to less than 100 games and Phils don't have a viable alternative to split time at 3B with Dobbs.

Plus, while I like Dobbs starting a few times a week against RHP, I bet he will get exposed offensively and defensively if he is forced to become a full-time starter at 3B.

I also wonder if Dobbs can start full-time too. He was hampered by small nagging injuries all last year and I wonder if he can stay healthy enough if he is a full-time starter.

CJ: Jack spent an entire thread defending Keith Law yesterday. You think this puts him in a bad spot?

MG: How did Dobbs do when he played everyday while Feliz was hurt last season? How badly was he exposed?

Blanton's ERA+ as a Phillie (13 starts, 71 innings): 104
Lohse's ERA+ as a Cardinal (33 starts, 200 innings): 113

I don't know the reasons for Lohse leaving. It could well be that he didn't want to pitch here under any circumstances. But IIRC the Phillies were reapproached after the Cardinals' offer came in, and they told him to take a hike because they had already made other plans. Those plans included Adam Eaton, and while he wasn't bad for a stetch, I'm sure we would have won more games with Lohse that we did with Eaton.

And I'm of the opinion that if we hadn't cut off negotiations with Lohse because we hate his agent, and had signed him for 1 year, $5-6 million, it would have translated into 5-6 more wins.


Posted by: Alby | Friday, December 05, 2008 at 09:01 AM


Alby, we happen to agree, but my point to bap was when evaluating the 2008 season, one needs to differentiate the makeup of the roster both pre and post trade deadline.

One thing I find amazing though is that the Phils largely won last year because of improved pitching (including a vastly improved bullpen along with a strong defensive presence up the middle.

Are the Phils finally realizing that they need to win with pitching and can't out slug people in CBP?

Donald's defense is "substandard"? I've heard below average or average at SS but never "substandard". He's got a great arm (Hmm..3B maybe?) and he's killed the ball at every level. Give the poor guy a chance.

On Lohse though, how much of his improvement in STL was due to Dave Duncan? Lohse credits his improvement to Duncan's coaching and gameplans...something he says he never had in Philly. Would he have done as well in Philly as he did in STL in 08. I'm guessing not.

NEPP: I was overstating it. But Donald is a man without a position. There's real question about his range at SS.

clout: Dobbs never really got to play every day even when Feliz was hurt (platoon with Bruntlett). The closest he came was a 24 game stretch from late July to late August when Dobbs started 12 games and played in 7 others. His line was 283/320/543. During that time, he continued to be shielded from left-handed pitchers (he only had 10 PA's against lefties all year long).

I definitely agree on the range issues...which is another reason they could maybe try to see if his bat would play at 3B. How could it be worse than Feliz's .304 OBP?

Blanton's career ERA+: 101
Lohse's career ERA+: 97

Though Blanton comes in a few points above Lohse, I don't think that amounts to "well above average" for Blanton. They're similar pitchers. The biggest differences are that Lohse, who is two years older, signed out of high school after being drafted in the 29th round, while Blanton went to college and got drafted in the 1st round.

Frankly, I'd like to have both so we could move Kendrick to the bullpen.

Considering Kendrick isn't even likely to make the team next year, I don't think that's a major worry at this point.

NEPP: Amen. Donald should start Triple A at 3B next year... unless they are honestly counting on him to fill Utley's shoes to start the season.

If Lohse has a 2009 much like his second half of 08 will everyone stop posting that with Lohse we would have won the WFC even more easily?

I'd like to think they would give him a shot to cover 2B but knowing their track record and not wanting to "waste" his service time, I expect to see a Bruntlett/Iguchi/Loretta type situation (one of them, not all 3).

CJ: You're way off on Dobbs starts. He started 23 games after Feliz was hurt through season end. I posted his numbers from those starts on a previous thread and they're much better than yours.

No one is saying Dobbs should start vs. LHP. It's amazing there are still posters who think he shouldn't start vs. RHP, using excuses like "he'd be exposed" when the numbers tell a different story.

Dobbs doesn't intimidate opposing hitters with his glove.

clout: We're talking about two different standards. You talked about him being an "every day player." That's very different from tracking his starts. I attempted to pick a period of time in which Dobbs picked up his most starts relative to the number of games played.

From July 23 to the end of the season (60 games), Dobbs started in 26 and played in another 21. I'm not sure that's quite being an everyday player. His line over that stretch was 282/306/563.

All the bench or platoon guys stepped up at some point in the postseason--Feliz, Jenkins, Stairs, Bruntlett. Thats part of what made this WS run so amazing. The only one I can't remember chipping in is Taguchi.

clout: We agree that if no improvements are made with regards to 3B next season, than it should be a strict lefty/righty platoon with Dobbs/Feliz.

MG- to answer your question from the previous page, I have no idea where I heard of Fundies. I think I saw them on the internet a while ago and saved the image for future use on my site. I like to use fun images with my posts. I agree that Myers and Donald might not get you Rios, but I based that scenario on the fact the the Blue Jays have been linked to liking Myers many times in the past and that Donald is gathering a lot of "hot prospect" status.

Clout - That was only for a very limited stretch though and Dobbs had issues with several minor injuries last year.

I agree with you that Dobbs should start at least 2-3 times at 3B a week against RHP. I just wonder if he holds up over 150-155 full-time. Very legit concern.

MG- to answer your question from the prvious page, I found Fundies a couple weeks ago while searching the internet and saved the image for future use on the blog. I like putting funny pictures with my posts, something I enjoy and hopefully others do to.

About my dream scenario- I based it upon the Blue Jays having repeated past interest in Myers and the fact that Donald is now gotten "hot prospect" status around baseball. He's most certainly a buzz name.

Oops, I thought my original post didn't go through. Sorry for the redundancy.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/greg-dobbs.shtml

Dobbs profile on Baseball Cube. Doesn't appear that he has ever played in a huge number of games in any season including his minor league career. Is that due to injuries?

BTY - Baseball Cube's player profiles have undergone a significant upgrade/improvement.

Lohse's second half of '08 wasn't much worse than Blanton's work in a Phillies uniform, while Blanton's first half was much worse than Lohse's first half.

Is it OK if we disagree with you, or is that not allowed?

If Jason Donald can put up near-400 OBPs, his bat will play at 3B, regardless of his power.

"Considering Kendrick isn't even likely to make the team next year, I don't think that's a major worry at this point."

You're joking, right? Even if he starts off at AAA, that would put him at #6 on the SP depth chart, unless you put Carrasco ahead of him from spring training onward. You need, on average, 8 starting pitchers to get through a season if injuries take their average toll. Unless he's mastered that change-up, I don't care to ever see him start a game again.

I wasn't around for the Abreu/Padilla trades, but it looks as though there are still some grudges held over them

My initial opinion when the trades happened were: good riddance to both of those laxadazical bums.

My opinion now that the time has past: good riddance to both of those laxadazical bums.

Could we have gotten more return out of them? Probably, but if the Phils took both of them back behind Bulls BBQ and turned them into tomorrow's Pork Sandwiches, I'd still say the Phils came out as a better team.

I meant make the team out of Spring Training, Alby. I agree that he will likely be the #6 SP next year unless Carrasco has a great spring and moves ahead of him (a good possibility considering his numbers in AAA and now in the VWL).

If you looked at their career ERA+ before last year, the difference between Blanton and Lohse would have been considerably more. But I believe last year will prove to have been an outlier for Lohse, and to some extent Blanton as well.

Besides, ERA+ has its limitations. A few weeks ago we were having a debate about the merits of Garrett Atkins. You argued, quite persuasively, that most players have better stats at home than on the road and that home/away splits are not a terrific way to predict a player's future performance if he is traded away from a hitter-friendly park. If this same logic applies to pitchers, then it somewhat undercuts the logic of a park-related adjustment. I'm not saying that ballpark factors are meaningless; I'm just saying that the park-related adjustment for Oakland Coliseum probably punishes Blanton somewhat more than he deserves to be punished. The guy averaged nearly 15 wins a season between 2005 & 2007, and had ERAs under 4.00 in 2 of those years. He was a much better pitcher than Kyle Lohse during that time.

Oh . . . sorry. Unclear pronoun reference in that last post. "You" means Alby, to whom I meant to address the post.

I should also clarify. I'm not saying we were right to not go after Lohse, or that we were better off for not doing so. I'm merely saying that, going forward, I think Blanton is a better bet than Lohse to have a good 2009 season.

MG: If he starts against all RHP, which I think he should, he would get about 107 starts. Neither I nor anyone else suggested that he start vs. LHP. I'm puzzled why you think he should sit vs. RHP.

BAP: I like that clarification and I'm on you side about Blanton/Lohse 2009.

Both are pretty similiar pitchers though... both use 4 different pitches and mix them up well, but still lack a true 'out pitch'.

Is there a stat for how much value is added to a player if the Phils management is unable to sign him? I remember reading all about the legendary Justin Germano a year or so ago, now it's Lohse.

Clout
You mention that you do not think Feliz should be starting against right handed pitchers because he can't hit them. I guess then you must think Howard should not be hitting against left handed pitchers since he was pretty darn bad this year.

A Pro-Feliz thread deteriorates into a 2008 offseason era debate...

Germano is a future Hall of Famer.

The Cy Young award will eventually be named the Kyle Lohse award.

Isn't that name change one of the topics on the agenda for the Winter Meetings?

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