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Friday, November 21, 2008

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Mackanin would raise his stock if he switched from wire-rim glasses to a more metrosexual, Joe Maddon-style frame.

"Mackanin would raise his stock if he switched from wire-rim glasses to a more metrosexual, Joe Maddon-style frame."

Classic JW line on Beerleaguer.

Williams and Smith replaced by Perlozzo and Mackanin.
Looks like a trend towards more difficult to spell coaches names has developed.

I can envision the "Mackaniacs" section in RF now...

>I can envision the "Mackaniacs" section in RF now...

Just remember that those "spontaneous" fan groups with the costumes and signs are marketing creations, and won't show up if there are sell outs.

Williams had a difficult to spell first name though, as he used only 1 "m" in Jimy. Looks stupid every time you type it.

Random true story: Once I got stood up on a date with Sam Perlozzo's daughter's friend.

I loved last thread reading about Golson and Mayberry. It's interesting that it's a "devil you know" vs. the "devil you don't." We all know Golson... and that Texas blogger knows Mayberry... and everyone seems happier with the "devil you don't."

I would suggest there is a much better than even chance than neither has a productive ML career. But I like our chances better with Mayberry.

"Just remember that those "spontaneous" fan groups with the costumes and signs are marketing creations, and won't show up if there are sell outs."
Hmm, I'm pretty sure that Moyer's Lawyers were just 3 or 4 drunk guys dressed up in suits and briefcases.

LOL, CJ I was thinking the same thing after reading that commentary. If nothing else I'd take the guy with the greater power potential and cross my fingers.

Does the trade open or close the door on the Ibanez,Edmounds.Bradley,etc. moves?

Amaro, Jr., live in studio for DNL right now. Chase main topic of conversation.

Amaro stresses it is not a hip replacement type surgery or issue, but level of damage is not/won't be known until they operate and get the camera in there and scope it out.

jr: It likely doesn't affect the LF plans greatly. At least, I don't belive it does.

I tend to think its likely a bone chip/spur type of issue...not anything worse.

From Zolecki article
"I think we have coverage with Bruntlett and with the emergence of Donald," Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said. "That does not mean that we won't look to add, but I think if we were to open the season today without Chase . . . we're covered fairly well.

FWIW, Bruntlett started 28 games at SS last year when Rollins was hurt. He hit .250 with a .308 OB. His defense, as I recall began shaky, but looked pretty good after about 7 or 8 games of everyday play.

Anyone have any idea why everyone is suggesting the Phils are getting in on AJ Burnett and Derek Lowe? Is it any more than idle speculation and one "insider" repeating what the other one said?

Clout: Exactly right on the gnome's defense. After the first two or three games I thought OMG this guy can't play short. Then he settled down and did a decent job. As with all Gnomes (and utility players) they're good in small doses.

Bruntlett AND Donald could cover 2B for a month. If anyone else in the infield goes down we could be hurting. Utley is the best player on the team though so we're screwed without him no matter what.

NEPP - But that is assuming that Feliz is healthy too which having a lumbar disc replaced isn't the most straightforward thing either.

I would bet money that Feliz spends more time on the DL next year than on the field. Just a hunch. Athletes in their mid-30s with major back issues/surgery almsot always raises a red flag about their ability to stay on the field.

If he fixes his disc issue Feliz might be better than he was in 08. Going in and dealing with it like he's doing right now (likely he's having a microdiscectomy) should relieve the issues he dealt with the entire 2nd half. I agree though that if he also has a relapse the Phillies will be hurting. Honesetly I think we should all enjoy our WS win as 09 might be a big letdown.

Jose Guillen is on the block apparently. He's right handed, fairly talented and coincidentally plays LF. Downside is he's supposedly a clubhouse cancer and he's owed $24 million over the next 2 season.

"The Royals are quietly shopping righthanded-hitting outfielder Jose Guillen, a terrific talent who seems to have the knack for wearing out his welcome pretty quickly. Guilen is said to be at odds with Royals manager Trey Hillman, who just completed his first year at the helm in Kansas City.

Guillen can hit -- 20 home runs, 97 RBIs and a .264 batting average last year -- but the problem is his $12 million salary and two years remaining on his contract."

i'm not a big fan of him personally but I'm just tossing names out there.

At the plate Guillen's kind of like a somewhat more talented version of Pedro Feliz -- only with an attitude problem and a ghastly expensive contract. No thanks.

He's kinda hit or miss I agree. 3 of the past 5 years were good but the other 2 were vilely bad. The attitude thing is my biggest issue with it. I throw it out there not out of support but because he's out there, is righthanded, and plays leftfield.

I would take a stab at Guillen if the Royals are willing to take the Phils' junk (Eaton) for the Royals' junk (Guillen). Yeah committing $12M to Guillen in 2010 would be an issue but you trade a losing asset in 2009 into one that fills an immediate need.

NEPP - Yeah. I looked at Guillen stats and even the "good years" weren't exactly stellar. Basically getting a guy who might be slightly above league average and has had issues with fans, managers, and teammates at various points. Sounds like a winner.

"That Texas blogger doesn't know Golson, but he does know Mayberry, and his comments about him are troublesome.

Posted by: baxter | Friday, November 21, 2008 at 02:41 PM "


baxter, it's this simple: If Mayberry were "all that" or a "can't miss" prospect, the Phillies would not have gotten him for 'just' Greg Golson.

I am merely repeating what I saw, not endorsing it in the slightest. I dont want to see Guillen in a Phillies Uni at all.

If he fixes his disc issue Feliz might be better than he was in 08. Going in and dealing with it like he's doing right now (likely he's having a microdiscectomy) should relieve the issues he dealt with the entire 2nd half.

Feliz 08

first 93 games (346 PA): .270/.320/.442 -- 12 HR, 30 XBH
next 40 games (117 PA): .189/.250/.283 -- 2 HR, 5 XBH

Odd thing. I looked to basically where Feliz statistically peaked last year and just happened to land on July 13th -- the last game before the AS break. The 40 games starts July 18th. From the 18th to the 24th Feliz went .048/.048/.143 (21 PA) before hitting the DL until August 21st. From Aug 21st until the end of the reg season he hit .224/.295/.318 (34 games.)

What happened to Feliz over the break? Probably a funny coincidence? Maybe a bad flight home. I'm I forgetting the source of his injury?

AWH - Agreed. It was a "junk for junk" trade although it was a guess unusual because it involved two highly-touted picks who really have panned out so far. My bet is if either team gets any kind of meaningful contribution at the MLB level for even for 1-2 years from either one of these guys they will come out the winner.

Sophist - Feliz has always been a guy who generally fades in the 2nd half. That (and maybe injury concerns to his back) are the reasons that no other team would offer Feliz a guaranteed 2nd year except for the Phils.

I remember Sabean even came out and publicly stated a couple of times that the Giants were not going to offer Feliz anything other than an option for a 2nd year. Plus, even with their woes at 3B last year including having to pick up Castillo, Sabean stated the Giants didn't miss Feliz when he was faced on his sports radio talk show out here.

Back injuries are funny Sophist. Speaking from experience (actually I just threw out my back again yesterday and it hurts like hell right now), Feliz could have aggravated it doing any number of things. However, if he does go in and get the herniated disc fixed he could very well come back and have a whole season like his first half (which was fairly respectable). I don't remember anything specific that happened during a game but with that type of injury it could very well have been anything. Getting it fixed now we at least allow him plenty of time to heal up before the 09 season.

Feliz

Career
1st half: .258/.294/.436
2nd half: .244/.285/.419

That's weighted by his early career however.

2005
1st: .276/.315/.438
2nd: .217/.271/.402

2006
1st: .274/.306/.486
2nd: .202/.248/.348

2007
1st: .234/.270/.405
2nd: .275/.313/.434

2008
1st: .270/.320/.442
2nd: .189/.250/.283

Despite his overall splits showing a 2nd half decline, Feliz actually had much better 2nd halfs in 2007, 2003, 2004. So there's no real pattern.

As usual, Sophist beat me to it and with much more info.

This isn't so much about 2nd half decline (although it can be explained by it) than about how odd it is that his peak was exactly at the end of the 1st half followed by a brief period of ineptitude and a DL trip (followed by a larger stint of relatively better ineptitude.)

The DL stint allowed his back to relax a bit but he reaggravated it shortly after most likely. Maybe he got a little too wild over the AS break.

Was just looking at MLBTR. I've noticed a trend that has gone back for about 5 years now. Every time an article mentions a truly desirable (i.e., expensive) free agent, the Phillies are invariably listed in the article as among the "other teams" that have expressed interest -- in other words, the teams listed at the end of the article, after it has gotten done telling us the 2 or 3 teams who are serious suitors. This gets back to a point I've been making for several years now. This is part of a calculated strategy by the Phillies' front office to make it look to their fans like they are really going after expensive free agents, when in fact they have absolutely no intention of signing any of these guys.

It works like this. Someone from the front office puts in a phone call to the player's agent and says, "We'd be interested in signing your client if the money is right." The Phillies know full well that the agent will immediately put it out there that the Phillies have expressed interest because, after all, the more suitors there are, the more it drives up the player's price. But nothing ever advances beyond that first phone call and the player ends up signing somewhere else.

If the Phillies actually intended to sign any of these guys, you'd think that maybe they might actually do so once every 5 years. Their "interest" in guys like Lowe & Burnett is pure BS.

BAP - works both ways. the agent and player want the pseudo-interest as much as the FO (assuming other FO are as gullible as the consumer -- or assuming the agent at least thinks there's a chance to some other FO will buy it.)

bap...........................and you're surprised?

BAP - Anybody who has followed the Phils' knows this is their MO. They have made some bigger moves the past few years but they largely have almost exclusively come through trades. Really the only big-name FA the Phils have ever signed are Parrish and Thome. They have signed a couple of other notable FA the past several years (Gordon, Lieber, Eaton) but I wouldn't call those guys a big-name FA.

I dont expect them to make any big signings whatsoever. Bringing back Burrell and Moyer would impress me considering their MO.

MG: Yeah, I'm not making any earth-shattering discovery here. Just venting my general frustration.

bap: We signed Thome, the biggest name on the market at the time. And we've had our own stars to sign since then (Abreu, Burrell, Rollins, Utley, Howard)... who cares if the Phillies have their names thrown out there. It's irrelevant. It's not like people are investing their hard earned money as if these are false stock tips. This organization won the World Series like a month ago. What are you complaining about?

On a completely different topic, Peter Gammons has an article posted.

link here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?
entryID=3717193&name=gammons_peter


My favorite passage:


"as everything these days in the NL East is ignored other than the drama of the Mets. For two years in a row, the storyline of the division has been the "collapse" of the Mets, with little credit given to the intrepid Phillies, who never stopped fighting and who this year earned their first championship in 28 years. Things have gone wrong for the Mets, but they did not play in a vacuum, and for two straight years the Phillies stomped their way to the division title, this year the World Series."


At least some of the writers realize it wasn't all about the Mets "choking", that the boys in red pinstripes actually are a better team and beat them.

AWH - Agreed. A little of both especially with the "Mets" choking but the last two years this team has just played largely lights out for the last 2-3 weeks of the season in Sept. If not they wouldn't have made up the ground.

BAP - I know that you and I take hits for being overly pragrmatic/pessimistic? but the Phils' MO hasn't changed since much in regards to FA since Monty and Co. took over.

I will say though that they have at least spent a respectable amount of money the last several years and put a generally competitive product on the field. Big change from the mid-to-late 1990s when this largely refused to spend any money and was rightly ridiculed for being full of BS about the "small-market" team.

Like I said the other day because people jumped all over me, I am willing to see what the Phils do over the next month but I don't expect much. Publicly the Phils have pretty much said they done plan on doing much of anything to improve the team and they do have some tough decisions to make about resigning arbitration-eligible players.

I will say this and I stand by:

If this team only resigns Eyre, Moyer, and some Value Village types to round out the roster, they are going to be very hard-pressed to repeat as NL East champs next year. Now this doesn't mean they won't be a playoff contender but hard to seeing them winning 90+ games as currently constituted and with the injury concerns to Feliz and Utley.

You know what...WE WON THE WORLD SERIES.

Its nice to be able to "worry" about repeating as World Champions.

MG, we agree. I have posted on this site for months that they, IMO, need a RH power bat in the lineup to balance it out. If they don't make any improvements, they may struggle next season, especially, as you point out, in light of the surgeries.

As Gammons point out in his article, the Marlins should be better. I, for one, have posted already that I believe the Marlins will be a bigger problem next season than the Mets. I stand by that, and Gammons seemed to imply the same.

The Mets will try to correct their biggest weakness, their bullpen, and in case anyone missed it, the Mets outscored the Phillies last season, without Moises Alou, with Ryan Church on and off the DL, and Carlos Delgado looking like an age casualty the first half of the season.

And that was a Phillies lineup that included Pat Burrell.

So, Ruben needs to have a Happy Thanksgiving, and the forget the fact that the Phillies are

World F*****g Champions

and get to work.


It's our job to bask and enjoy it, which I intend to do until ST.

All are welcome to join me, even you NEPP!!!!!

BAP & MG~

You know this team doesn't play in the big FA market. That has been their MO for years now. They will sign guys who only want to play for what they're willing to pay. Does any of thisa surprise any one of us? Hell, you know they're gonna let Burrell walk and the offense will be weaker because of it. I'll go out on a limb and say the chances of re-rigning Moyer are only 50-50. Whay do I say that about both players? Simple. They both wanna stay. Signing them should be easy and it should have been done already. But with the Phils, it's always about the $$. There will be no big FA signings and don't look for a blockbuster trade to fill the hole if LF either. I doubt it will happen.

I'd add Pete Rose and Gregg Jefferies to the big free agent list.

Jefferies and Parrish were busts. Rose went downhill fast, benched during the "Wheeze Kids" season down the stretch. Thome was OK, turned out we didn't really need him after a coupla years.

Yeah, I wish we'd sign more Barry Zitos, Kevin Browns, Mo Vaughs, Mike Hamptons, Bobby Bonillas, Carl Pavanos, Eric Gagnes, Vince Colemans, Chan Ho Parks, Sarge Jrs, etc etc etc etc

Actual Reactions (from secret wiretaps, of course):

Golson - Awright. I'm outta there. Those stupid fans were always on my case. Now I get traded for Mayberry, a real baseball player, which shows I was the real deal all along. Good riddance I say. Enough of that negative crap they got going on over there. Those fans; that management. I'll show them all!

Mayberry - Craig who?

Andy "Craig?"..............LOL.


Actually, I wish Golson the best. From everthing I've read and interview I've seen, he sounds like a good guy and a good teammate. Apparently he has a good work ethic too.

I don't think fans here were harsh on the guy - not by any stratch of the imagination. There was, however, a great deal of debate as to whether or not he was good enough to make it to the MLB level and stick.

The only thing he did for which I would criticize him, was once complain about posters on blogs and the fact that his family got upset by reading it. He should have just kept his mouth shut - it comes with the territory.

I hope he does progress. Maybe the Rangers feel they can teach him to cut down on the strikeouts. Perhaps they did the deal on the chance he can hit .250 - .260, hit 10-15 HRs, keep his Ks to under 125, walk a little more, steal 20-30 bases out of the 8 or 9 hole, and play stellar defense in CF.

If I recall, that's what many expected out of Vic.

Texas OF last year consisted of Hamilton CF,
David Murphy RF - BA .275 SLG .465 15 HR 74 RBI [106 OPS+], and
Brandon Boggs LF - BA .226 SLG .399 8 HR 41 RBI [94 OPS+], with Marlon Byrd platooning. Maybe they figure Golson couldn't be worse at the plate than Boggs, and he can play CF and steal bases. The Rangers scored 901 runs lasr year, so offense isn't the problem, but pitching and defense need improvement.

As previously posted, they've said they'd like to move Hamilton to RF to save wear and tear, and Golson may give them the opportunity.

So good luck to Greg, maybe he makes it there, but he certainly wasn't going to displace Vic in red pinstripes.


In return the Phillies get Mayberry, who wasn't likely to make it as a corner OF in Texas, and, if Chollie and the Phillies coaches can further refine his swing and plate discipline, maybe he makes it to the Zen.

It was probably a good trade for both teams, in that they gave up a player who they no longer projected to really help them, for a player who, if improvement occurs, could possibly pay decent dividends.

EF: How about Mike Mussinas and A-Rods? For every bust I can name one that worked out well. Wanna play that game?

@AWH:

"... the Mets outscored the Phillies last season ..."

Actually, each team scored 799 runs.

Was reading an article in ESPN Magazine this morning while I waited to have my oil changed. The article was about the possible trading deadline frenzy in the NBA. One anonymous GM was quoted as saying that a lot of owners just like to create the appearance that they're actively shopping for big names because it helps create buzz for the fans. I know the Phillies don't play in the NBA, but this guy nailed their m.o. to a tee.

We may be overthinking the Mayberry-Golson trade. Texas was short on speed-and-glove prospects and the Phils are devoid of power prospects. It was a good fit for both clubs. But I'll take Rob Deer for Reggie Taylor every day of the week.

Funny thing on Mussina: I was just having a conversation this week with a Yankees fan about how Moose was actually a disappointment as a FA signing. Not that he wasn't always a steady pitcher or anything but that they expected him to be an elite game stopping Ace pitcher and he was never that guy. This started as a debate over Moose's HoF credentials to which they said "You have to compare him to his peers and that means guys like Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Pedro, R. Johnson, & Schilling. In that comparison he usually comes up wanting...and it thus in the Hall of Very very good instead of the HoF.

Sorry for the tangent but the above post mentioning him as a successful signing brought it to mind.

I have to say that clout nailed it on the head on the Golson/Mayberry trade. Why overthink that it was anything other than that.

NEPP: Wow. Yankee fans are hard to please. In his 8 yrs with NY, Moose went 123-72 with 5 years of excellent ERA+, WHIPs of 1.20 or lower 5 times and 197 IP or more 5 times. In his 3 "off" years he was hurt, pitched fewer IP he still went 36-27.

Guess they were looking for Walter Johnson.

Agree with both NEPP and clout about the trade, but understand the chatter in the absence of any other player moves for the Phils. Wish I still lived in Allentown (sort of) so I could catch up on some Pigs scouting though. He could have some up side for us come spring.

I agree about the Mussina comment, as well, but given his career win total (over-rated stat) and his final playing venue (over-rated team (lately) I think he's more likely than not to end up in the HOF. The HOF reminds me of something I was told in the army. It's not doing something heroic that wins you a medal. It's doing something remarkable and having a high ranking officer see you do it that gets you one.

It's not exactly the same, but close enough here. Moose wasn't an amazing pitcher, but he was really good, and the NYY have a ton of fans, so..

Well yeah clout...they're Yankees fans. They expect a WS victory every year for godsake. I just thought it was a telling conversation to say the least. Its not an isolated sentiment among Yankees fans either...I've heard the same thing said several times.

Well considering Catfish Hunter is a HoFer...I'm not surprised that anyone is in the Hall. All Hunter had was a Yankees uniform and a cool sounding name...to go along with his 104 career ERA+. Though at least he won a Cy Young...

I give Moose credit for retiring after a good year. He could've stuck around and gotten his 3000K and likely 300 wins. He changed his approach this year, and went with a Moyeresque style to suit his decreasing skills.

I bet he gets in the HOF, at some point, but his aloof manner with the press may not help.

At least half the Hall of Fame is actually made up of guys who belong in the Hall of the Very Good instead. While Mussina seems more like the No. 2 pitcher on a good staff, there are several guys like that in the Hall, from Eddie Plank on down to the oft-denigrated Don Sutton.

BedBeard: Sportswriters often seem masochistic on that point. Remember how long Gary Carter took to get voted in, despite how easy he was for writers to get along with?

BedBeard: Not sure what you mean by "Moyeresque" but Mussina has been a breaking ball pitcher since he was 21. His pitches are curves, knuckle-curves and changeups with the fastball mixed in to keep batters honest.

It is true that he featured a 92 mph fastball when he was younger and doesn't get beyond 88 mph now. But Moyer would salivate if he could throw an 88 mph fastball.

Maybe somebody can tell me why Rabbit Maranville is in the HOF.

Clearly it was his dominating .258 career batting average.

Jason Stark's latest on Pat Burrell:

"• Despite reports that Pat Burrell turned down $21 million for two years from the Phillies, a source with knowledge of those negotiations says that "never happened." The two sides did talk contract after the World Series but discussed only "very general parameters," the source said.

The Phillies indicated they were interested in bringing Burrell back for "as short a term as possible." But Burrell, obviously, expects there will be more years and dollars out there on the market. So if that's the case, the Phillies have a tricky decision to make on whether to offer him arbitration.

On one hand, he's a Type A free agent, so the Phillies would get a premium compensation pick. On the other hand, he made $14 million this year. So if he were to accept arbitration, he'd be in line for a raise after reaching base more times (237) than any NL left fielder except Matt Holliday and thumping more extra-base hits (66) than any NL left fielder except Ryan Braun. Stay tuned."
Does "as short a term as possible" mean the FO would eventually agree to a three year deal, maybe with an option year? Or, was the trade for Mayberry a signal to Burrell that if he doesn't "take it" (or leave it) they're prepared to move in another direction?

Interesting. I wonder if Burrell would pull a "Greg Maddux" and accept arbitration?

It would probably throw the Phils payroll out of whack, at least for one season.


Gosh.....I just re-read Stark's data on Burrell.....the number of times he reached base and the number of XBHs......


It just made me wonder, once again, who those available guys are that some posters think can replace Burrell's production.

(Sorry about the double post, but I want to make sure you know which content is mine and which is Stark's.)


Jason Stark's latest on Pat Burrell:


"• Despite reports that Pat Burrell turned down $21 million for two years from the Phillies, a source with knowledge of those negotiations says that "never happened." The two sides did talk contract after the World Series but discussed only "very general parameters," the source said.

The Phillies indicated they were interested in bringing Burrell back for "as short a term as possible." But Burrell, obviously, expects there will be more years and dollars out there on the market. So if that's the case, the Phillies have a tricky decision to make on whether to offer him arbitration.

On one hand, he's a Type A free agent, so the Phillies would get a premium compensation pick. On the other hand, he made $14 million this year. So if he were to accept arbitration, he'd be in line for a raise after reaching base more times (237) than any NL left fielder except Matt Holliday and thumping more extra-base hits (66) than any NL left fielder except Ryan Braun. Stay tuned."

Does "as short a term as possible" mean the FO would eventually agree to a three year deal, maybe with an option year? Or, was the trade for Mayberry a signal to Burrell that if he doesn't "take it" (or leave it) they're prepared to move in another direction?

Interesting. I wonder if Burrell would pull a "Greg Maddux" and accept arbitration?

It would probably throw the Phils payroll out of whack, at least for one season.


Gosh.....I just re-read Stark's data on Burrell.....the number of times he reached base and the number of XBHs......


It just made me wonder, once again, who those available guys are that some posters think can replace Burrell's production.

The stupidest possible thing to do would be to NOT offer him arb. That increases his value as a FA, makes him tougher for the Phils to sign and leaves the team with nothing when he does leave.

"At least half the Hall of Fame is actually made up of guys who belong in the Hall of the Very Good instead."

Whitey, unfortunately, probably doesn't belong in the Hall.

Stark also offers up these scouting reports from the AFL, including one on out own Jason Donald:


Return of the Rumblings scouting bureau
Reviews from the Arizona Fall League:

• Braves pitcher Tommy Hanson (5-0, 0.67 ERA, 49 strikeouts, 28 2/3 innings pitched): "If he doesn't make their club next spring, he'll be their first call-up. He's really close. He's got good command of three pitches. He's a very good athlete for a kid who's 6-[foot]-6. He's got a good feel for pitching. I can see why they wouldn't put him in that [Jake] Peavy deal. I hear other scouts say he's a No. 3 starter. Hell, he's better than that."

• Marlins first baseman Logan Morrison (.404 batting average, .444 on-base percentage, .667 slugging percentage, 5 home runs in 99 at-bats): "Such a good approach for a young kid. Great swing. Great concept of the strike zone. And he's got power. This guy should be a hell of a hitter."

• Phillies shortstop Jason Donald (.414 AVG, .480 OBP, .759 SLG, 5 HRs in 87 ABs): "Very steady shortstop. Has good at-bats. I don't know how much power he'll have down the line, but he's got some strength. He's the best infielder in that Phillies system by far."

• Braves catcher Tyler Flowers (.394 AVG, .463 OBP, 1.014 SLG, 12 HRs in 71 ABs): "Big, strong, raw-boned guy. Very powerful offensive catcher. Defensively, needs polish. But better agility than you'd think he'd have. I'm not sure what they're going to do with him, with [Brian] McCann there. But he's a player."



Hughes

• Yankees pitcher Phil Hughes (1-0, 3.60 ERA, 28 K's, 25 IP): "Saw him two games, and he cruised. He dominated, and he should. His curveball was very sharp. All those people who think he's lost his luster -- no way. Hell, he'd be our No. 2 starter right now."

After reading about Logan Morrison, maybe the Fish will move the arb eligible Jacobs.

Boy, the Fish are going to be tough next season.

1) On Golson. I kinda felt bad about making that joke. I, too, wish him nothing but the best. From all reports he truly works hard at his craft.

2) In re: the trade. Yup. Both teams had something they didn't need so much, that they were not sure about; and the fit worked.

3) On the Burrell arbitration: if they offer just one year, is he not likely to turn them down? If they want to dump him but want to keep the draft picks, that'd be the move, to offer $14MM for one year.

4) One guess about Maranville: in his time infield defense was prized more highly?

clout, we agree.

For instance, on Maranville, in 1924, the Phils led the National League by turning 168 double plays. That same year, Maranville was involved in 109 DPs.

Klaus, there a lot of guys in the Hall (by 'virtue' of the Veteran's Committee) that probably don't belong there.

The "Three Reds":

Schoendienst, Faber and Ruffing

are all, IMO, marginal HOFrs. If it were up to me they wouldn't be there.


There are others, too.

I've seen several articles hinting that Boston may be a real player in the Teixeira sweepstakes. If they landed Teix, presumably they'd move Youkilis to 3rd making Lowell potentially available on the trade market. Giving the money owed (I believe 2 years around 11-12 mil/season) & his age... I would think that Lowell wouldn't command a high ransom other than taking his contract.

Andy: Do you mean the year that Maranville made 65 errors (1914) or the year he made 53 errors (1919)?

In fairness, they had little tiny gloves in those days and when a fielder made a misplay it was called an error, unlike today when probably 30% of all errors are ruled hits.

Andy: "On the Burrell arbitration: if they offer just one year, is he not likely to turn them down? If they want to dump him but want to keep the draft picks, that'd be the move, to offer $14MM for one year."

I agree except for the offer amount. Remmeber, an arbitrator can only pick the team's offer or the player's. An offer of $14M is laughable. It would represent no raise after the season Burrell had. Please note Stark's comparisons to other LFers above, which is how an arbitrator will view it. If the Phils low-ball him in arb, they will get burned badly if he accepts and counters with a big number.

kevmac: If you're suggesting the Phils would trade for him, it's not going to happen. They already have an old, oft-injured third baseman under contract... and the one we have is cheaper. Lowell would likely be better with the bat if healthy, but both are such big question marks that it wouldn't make sense to have them both.

kevmac, they owe Feliz, who just had back surgery, 5 Million in '09.

What do you do with him?

Besides, coming off of surgery of his own, do you know for sure Lowell would be an upgrade at 3B?


Now, if the Red Sox would take Eaton for Lowell, then maybe I'd do it and figure out what to do after that.

Perhaps Star is hearing some whispers... but it makes no sense for the Phils to avoid offering arbitration for Burrell.

er... Star = Stark

klaus: The HOF is like the MVP in that there's no hard and fast rules, but if you value hits, and I do think they have value, Ashburn led the decade of the 1950s in that department. A decade that included Mays, Mantle, Williams etc. Every player who has led his decade in hits is in the HOF. He also had a career avg. of .308 and lifetime OB of .396. I have no problem making a case for Ashburn.

AWH Jacobs was traded already

Ashburn's case also includes the 5 of the highest 10 outfield put-out totals of all time. And Clout is correct in that Whitey led the league in BA twice in his career -- a league that included Stan Musial and, for most of his career, Willie Mays. He had the misfortune to play in an era that neglected the running game, or he'd have gaudy SB totals, too. He's marginal because of his utter lack of power.

Maranville is one of those guys whose case is made by longevity more than any other single attribute. He played 23 seasons, a NL record that stood until Pete Rose broke it.

Clout: Heard an interview with a Baltimore writer who is friends with Moose from his Oriole days. He said Mussina came into this season knowing that he had to change his approach to pitching. The writer used Moyer as an example.

Clout: that is an impressive fact, leading the decade (the golden age even) in hits. Didn't know that. I'll confess to basing my opinion solely on his OPS+ and below league average slugging--that is to say, it isn't very considered. Can sincerely say I'd be happy to be wrong.

BedBeard: I think the writer might be exaggerating a bit unless Mussina's fastball is slower than I think. But it's interesting that in a season he had to change his approach (presumably rely even more on breaking stuff) that he had his best year since 2001. Good example of how breaking stuff tends to be underrated and fastballs overrated in baseball.

On Maranville - I have no investment. He does not belong in the Hall. I was just trying to imagine why someone might have voted for him.

On the Burrell arb - I was imagining a way the Phils might try to dump him while retaining his draft picks. An offer of $14 (or even less!) before arbitration might entice him to refuse arbitration altogether. Then they could draft a couple really toolsy guys in June to replace Bourn, Roberson and Golson (you know: if it's possible to replace such, um, gems) and fill the hole in left via the clearance section of the bargain bin at the Dollar Store. I see that Kevin Mench is available again. Maybe this time, with Werth already in place, if Burrell makes his way to greener pastures, we might end up with that guy's tools in left.

If we do get some comp picks, why not use the money saved by not signing Pat and actuall, I don't know, BUST SLOT and get some top prospects...

NEPP: I kind of agree with you to a degree. Don't know if that's good or bad.

I think if we lose out on Burrell we should try and use the money earmarked for him (in a manner of speaking) and use that in draft picks. I know we won't but.

I know it wouldn't be a popular strategy but I'm not opposed to taking a step backwards or sideways to take two steps forwards a few years down the road.

It's a tricky propsition the FO finds themselves in right now and it's harder decisions than some think. They can piece together now and keep trying to go or they can try and make do with what they have and develop some future building blocks to maybe supplement or star in a few years. It's risky, and either way you're bound to be wrong.

AWH: I don't think its likely to happen. In order for the Phils to do that I'd assume they'd have to include feliz along with a b or c rated prospect back to the Sox as mainly a salary dump for the sox (yes i know the sox & yanks don't normally just do salary dump type of deals).

But i'd take Lowell over feliz even with the health concerns.

Again, I don't think it'll happen but I certainly wouldn't mind if it did.

I meant if we were unable to resign Burrell and we did end up getting 2 picks...could we at least make them useful by busting slot and getting a Porcello or a Longoria.

It's good to see that BLers don't give a rat F about Jason's header topic of Pete Mackanin's hiring as bench coach and Sam Perlozzo being named the third base coach. That's because we're the WFC.

I enjoyed AWH's capsule reviews of the AFL prospects. If I can find a job in New Orleans, I'll try to attend some Zephyrs games (wearing WFC Phillies attire) and check out Logan Morrison. I'm glad the Zephyrs switched affiliation from the hated Mets to the almost as bad hated Fish. With the Fish, I'll be assured to be able to see a well stocked Triple A club.

The Phillies won't offer Burrell arbitration. They didnt want to pay the $14mil they had to pay him this year. They wanted to trade him the last 2 years (instead of Abreu) but nobody wanted him because of his ridiculous salary. If they offer him arbitration, he will accept, and get a raise.

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EST. 2005

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