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Tuesday, November 04, 2008


Should mention that if the need arises, and if he isn't already in the rotation, Happ should be the lefty fallback in the pen. Happ's seen as a starter, but he's just too old to keep grooming at AAA if he's able to provide immediate help.

Steve Smith just fired -from Zo ZOne

And the roster moves just keep on coming. Orr, Walrond and now Steve Smith. Talk about a shake-up!

Isn't Happ penciled into the rotation right now? Aren't we pretty much set with Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton, Happ? I guess what you're referring to is if we sign another starting pitcher. To me, this would not be a priority unless it's a clear #1 or #2 starter. Paying a good amount of money for a veteran to give you what you could get cheaply with Happ is stupid. I hope we learned this from the Eaton experiment.

I'd rather have Walrond than Pete Orr. I agree with JW, I'm a little sad to see him go as he was decent depth, but its a very minor loss.

I have no problem with Steve Smith being fired.

Cannot stop laughing at bay_area_phan's post from the last thread about Orr. Too much:

"If Pete Orr actually has multiple teams interested in his services, it should give hope to the ugliest woman in the world that, somewhere in the universe, there is actually a guy who thinks you're hot."

My guess at this point is that this will be a rather slow off season in terms of any exciting new faces or moves.

This is a conservative organization that has not been aggressive in terms of laying out dollars for the most part. I'm sure they feel their approach has been validated by the W/S win (and in fairness, what can you say?).

Amaro seems conservative even within this staid framework, and does not seem the type to want to make waves, especially coming in. He realizes he has some fan goodwill coming and maybe even a little bit of trust in the bank, so why would he take a chance on laying out huge dollars for Ordonez and having him get injured? He would take a huge PR hit if something like that happened.

He's already given us an indication of his philosophy with the quote kdon correctly labeled as "scary" about Jenkins and Stairs somehow sharing left field. I'm really, really hoping that he is simply trying to lower expectations (remember Gillick's "small splashes" comment?) and not set any bars too high right off the bat. But I'm not sure.

Common sense wise, there is some merit in not jumping on the first train to roll in. There is some talent out there and prices may fall for those who wait. I also see the wisdom of making Hamels the priority at this point.

Bottom line is I predict we'll see significantly higher prices at the box office and for food/merchandise (after all, we now owe them - the FO - one), a slightly increased payroll, and "small splashes". The biggest news may be a potential signing of Hamels to keep him here. It may end badly with the Phils making some ham handed comments in the media that alienate him. They'll make an offer to Burrell not large enough to keep him, but large enough to buy minimal credibility, sort of like with Lowell last year.

ok really random sry, but where will they keep the world series trophy, do you think they will have it on display like in a case or somthing or just keep it in their office's? thanks

Never happy to hear someone lost their job but frankly it baffled my mind how Steve Smith kept his job last offseason. His two main responsibilities on this team were 3rd base coach and infield defense.

His baserunning advice became so laughable at the end of the 2007 season that it was a running joke on here that the Phils could use a cardboard cutout at 3rd and it would probably have been an improvement.

Even this year, I distinctly remember a number of occasions where players just completely and obviously ignored a sign that Smith had at 3B. Most glaring memory was a game that Jenkins won at CBP (June maybe?) on a play at home in the bottom of the 9th where the replay clearly showed Smith told Jenkins to hold and Jenkins completely ignored Smith. I also remember a couple of times where Vic and Utley did too this year.

I also wondered how almost every year this team could come out and play such poor infield defense the first 3-4 weeks of the season. Just like last year, the infield defense (Rollins and Utley) in particular made several really poor plays in the field in April. Kind of reflects poorly on Smith and his preparation of the team in spring training.

3rd base coach really isn't that important to a team with a coaching staff that includes Cholly, Lopes, and Williams but I imagine anyone will be an upgrade from Smith.

One last thing on Smith:

- You always seen Phils' players going over to Lopes to get some advice and hardly saw that with Smith. Now Granted the 1st base coach is much more involved with the running game but still.

Just seemed that the players respected what Lopes brought to the table and didn't with Smith. I bet that is a big reason why he was fired which is kind of odd given this team won the World Series.

Walrond post - the kind of post that really defines what Beerleaguer is all about.

bob: Glad you liked the humor. I was actually kind of glad it got buried at the end of the last thread because, although I was merely trying to be funny, I was worried that phargo and doubleh might take offense & find it sexist. Then again, doubleh doesn't strike me as someone who easily takes offense at off-color humor.

Bob - I agre with you and kdon. The words "candor" and "humility" are going to be used much with Amaro as the GM.

I also do think that Monty and Co. are going to take the opportunity to raise prices on everything in a big way this year from the refreshments and merchandise down to the tickets.


- Not much surprising in David Murphy's column today except that the Phils would not only like to resign Eyre BUT ADD ANOTHER LEFTY TO THE PEN? This is a team that just at the start of 2007 was pretty adamant that you didn't need a lefty out of the pen and really didn't have until Romero was picked up off waivers in June 2007.

I'm gonna miss the Walrus...

Losing Walrond is no biggy, but having him in Triple A was nice for the "just in case" 15 day DL stint type thing. For some strange reason, I'm actually a huge fan of minor league signings of players that have MLB experience. Hence, I think signing Pete Orr to a minor league deal and having him play for the Iron Pigs is a good thing. Having Chris Snelling in the minors is a good thing. They can get called upon for 15 days in case of emergencies and not cost much at all and not start the clock on true prospects.

b_a_p: I don't know either of them other than BL posts, but my guess would be they might get a chuckle out of it too.

Thinking back on Amaro's quote that kdon cited about left field: "If Pat Burrell is not with us, we know we're going to have a void in leftfield," Amaro said. "We might have to deal with that internally with the Geoff Jenkinses of the world and the Matt Stairses of the world."

The more I think the worse it gets. Not only is it scary - as kdon appropriately labeled it - but right after the world series it seems very typical of the Phils' FO habit of ill considered statements.

To me at least, it at once sets a difficult tone with Burrell (why not just tip your hat to the guy and say you're looking forward to talking with him?), and insults Jenkins and Stairs. I think everyone reading this knows Jenkins had a bad year last year and that Stairs is, well, Stairs. But they both had huge hits in the post season that helped enormously. Why not let them bask in that, at least for a while.

I contrast the condescending statement of our GM (who is supposed to at least be able to think before spewing) with the words of Cholly. Right after the series our manager congratulated Jenkins for his hit and what it meant to the team, sympathized about the tough season Jenkins had, told the audience that the guy never got down on himself, and expressed confidence that Jenkins would come back strong and be a meaningful part of the team next year. Not bad at all.

When in your first day on the job, you show that you aren't able to stay with Uncle Cholly in terms of graciousness, class, and even eloquence for cripe's sake, it is a bit scary.

I still don't know what it all means, and it's one statement out of many we will hear, no doubt. But it ain't an auspicious beginning.

Anybody know if we're getting the cover of Sports Illustrated this week? (Not the special edition one)

There is an SI cover with the Phils on it, along with a 'memo' to the Selig on how to fix the WS or something like that. May be a regional one. Last week's was still on their website last I checked.

Last thoughts on Ordonez:
* He has a full no trade clause to 20 MLB teams. Not clear if the Phillies are on his 10 team list.
* GM Carson is correct about his games played over the past three years, but he only appeared in 52 and 82 games in `04 and `05, was on the DL this past year, and will turn 35 in January.
* His home/away split differential favors home by over 100 points of OPS over the last three years.
* According to Cot's Contracts: His options are guaranteed at $18M for 2010 & $15M for 2011 if Ordonez has: 135 starts or 540 PAs in 2009, or 270 starts or 1,080 PAs in 2008-09.
* Scott Boras is his agent.

He is a great offensive player, no doubt. I just think that the money involved, when combined with the prospects we'd need to give up, plus the fact that he would be 35, 36, and 37 during the contract is not a prudent risk to take at this time.

Thanks East!!

Wow so that's what Angelo was complaining about this morning. That "dear bud" piece really destroys the cover. I waited to have my championship team on the cover of SI and THAT is what we get? Ahh, only Philly.

MPN: Good post on Ordonez. The trade offers that posters made on the last thread (i.e. Donald, Golson & KK for Ordonez) had me doubled over with laughter. The Tigers GM would laugh even harder.

Re: LF, you can't replace Burrell with Stairs and Jenskins since neither can hit LHP. If, however, the Phils acquired a righty slugger, even one you'd have to platoon, you could get away with it assuming the money saved was used to 1. get an ace starting pitcher or 2. A slugging everyday thirdbaseman.

If the money were instead only used to tinker around the edges, then we're probably looking at an 84 win season next year. What makes the situation with Burrell so difficult is the lack of available alternatives. The 2 or 3 righty FA outfielders who are good as or better than Burrell will cost more and are at least as risky.

Like MG, I was suprised that Steve Smith held onto his job after his poor performance in 2007 of mismanaging runners on numerous occasions. Replacing him will be an upgrade.

Bob deserves an award for using the word "eloquence" in describing words that Cholly spoke and for it being used properly, not as sarcasm. Cholly has been impressive this season. Maybe, he always was, but only now we are recognizing it.

Sorry to see Les Walrond go. I was a minor fan of his. He had nasty stuff when the ball went where it was supposed to go. Control is the nemesis of all pitchers.

Amaro needs to learn that a GM is like a poker player. He should never tip his hand. He needs to be boring copy for the sportwriters. He needs to say things like, "we never comment on players or positions that are upcoming in offseason negotiations. I trust you will respect our position on the privacy of such matters."

I'd honestly target someone like Juan Rivera for the OF and bide my time until the 2010 FA class or a good trade during the year. There's no reason to overspend or trade the farm for a LF when we may have good internal options in a year.

Ordonez would be a mistake in terms of his age and his cost. Burrell will provide better "bang for the buck."

I would suggest, however, that a better option going forward would be to take a serious look at Holliday. He will not be cheaper than Burrell, since he would require an almost immediate long term contract, and he would be costly to acquire (costing maybe more than we have) but he would provide stability in LF somewhat comparable to Burrell. Maybe if we got him he'd get another chance to touch home.

Incidentally, b-a-p, hh and phargo (and vicki, too) might not be offended by your humor, but what about the guys who always seem to end up with to say, high school and college can be a difficult experience...)

I don't think we got a "Phillies Win" SI cover in 1980, so I'll take this one.

We only got a mid-series one back then. We mighta got a corner of the next issue.

Yo, new thread.

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