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Tuesday, October 21, 2008


Jason, I hear you, but if site traffic is directly related to Phillies' success (i.e. people don't post when they don't have anything negative to say), then I wish you all-time lows this week and next.

No offense, I love Beerleaguer, but if this site is buzzing this week and the comments are hitting record levels; it'll probably be due to the Phillies losing.

29 hours!

It gets no better.

Great post JW

"It’s what we always wanted, right?"

A great question. For some of us, there is no doubt, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people have mixed emotions about it. It isn't easy to complain about a winning team, although some will do it anyway.

If I didn't have work to do, I would go to sleep now and wake up tomorrow @ 5.

I feel more like it's due to the lack of games. I go to other blogs for my Philly-fan-persona fix, but I come to Beerleaguer for great in-game analysis.

Personally, I attribute the slow traffic to the pletiful off days. We just do not wait well. Really; just look at the dreck being printed by the newspaper columns right now. Even that's not worth commenting on.

Instead, I'd get ready for an all-time high game thread on Wednesday night. I have, unfortunately, an unavoidable meeting, so I might have to post a (silly, stupid, vapid, choose your term) fake dialogue in mid-afternoon, just to add to the length.

But once the games begin and we can begin talking about strategy, tactics - managerial folly and miraculous serendipity? - we'll be back in droves. There is no better place to be for a game, other than the stands, than a beerleaguer game chat.

For now, I'll go back to whittlin'.

Before "hittin' season, it's "whittlin' season".

Garza gives us some early Locker Room Material:

Says the Phillies line up not as tough as Boston, Detroit or Yanks. Calls facing Phillies a "Break"

K, time to make a mini pre-WS soundtrack to get fired up. What else can go on here?

Phillies Phever
Lights Out
whoop there it is
Philadelphia Freedom
Blues Brothers (Phils victory song)

One thing I hate about the Phils being in the World Series is that before the attention, they were OUR team. Now we have to share them. You know what I mean?

TK: "Holy Diver," obviously.

Don't forget about Pat's previous weirdo at-bat picks: "Holy Diver" by DIO and "Mr. Crowley" by Ozzie.

It isn't easy to complain about a winning team, although some will do it anyway.

b_a_p, the gauntlet has been thrown.

J-Roll used the Royksopp song from the Geico Caveman commercials earlier this year but hit about .100 during that time. So skip that one ...

Kutztown, I'm with you 110%. I'm avoiding ESPN, etc. more than usual because I'm sick of everyone commenting on "my" team. The thought of Red Sox Nation supporting us over the Rays is a little disheartening.

We are here JW. Just counting down the minutes...

Here is a topic for ya. Did anyone see "John and Kate Plus 8" last night on TLC. My kids watch this show and I have caught about 3 minutes of it out of the corner of my eye on a few occasions. But last night my kids call out to me to hurry up and check out what was on TV. Well, it was pretty cool -- the show was at The Bank at the Phillies game vs the Gnats on that rainy Friday the weekend they won the division. (I took my son to that game). The family featured on this show were guest of the Phillies. They met Cholly and Shane after the game (the dad is from Hawaii). Shane gave them his bat. Nice showing by the Phillies on a national show.

Okay, here goes some negativity...

Phils OF is going to be bad next season (assuming Burrell leaves, which seems like a near certainty).

CF Vic, and Werth and Jenkins in the corners, with absolutely no depth behind them. Good defensively, but way below average offensively.

Considering that OF should be the easiest position to re-tool, Phils' will be paying the price for their inept farm system. Who was called up during this season when fill-ins were needed? TJ Bohn? Golson? (Golson is a long ways away from being ML ready; and if I had to bet my house on it, I would predict that he never becomes a competent major leaguer.)

I predict that the Phils will address this situation by signing a right-handed, fourth-outfielder-caliber free agent, and pray for career years. And pray for no injuries, especially to Vic.

"Freedom of '76" by Ween. "I-76" by G. Love and Special Sauce ...

The theme to "Free Willy" by Michael Jackson.

Dropkick Murphys-Tessie

and on my iTunes "October" playlist-
The Boys of Summer (original or Ataris version, take your pick)
Get Like Me-David Banner (RyHo and Vlad Guerrera did that Powerade commercial at the FDR golf course to this)
Glory Days-Springsteen
I Feel Home-O.A.R.
Kashmir, of course
October Nights-Yellowcard
Philadelphia Freedom-Elton John
Soldiers-Drowning Pool
Dirty Laundry
Rodeo Clowns-G. Love ('Comin at ya live at here from California, even though I'm Philly born-and-bred...)
Jammin'-Bob Marley (MVicP's batting song)
Megalomaniac-Icubus (Dobbsey)
Catfish-Bob Dylan
and I close it out with "Soldiers" by Drowning Pool.

A few years ago, I never would have thought Dirty Laundry would pump me up. Now it's, to me, the song that reminds me most of this Phillies team, mostly because Pat is now getting cheered by the fans AND (slightly more so) praised by the media for his skills, yet inexplicably will not change it.

Jason: If you're serious about traffic, just write a post entitled, "Pedro Feliz: 2008 Team MVP."

I like the song mix idea. I got this from WikiAnswers...

Jimmy Rollins: Paper Planes by MIA.

Jayson Werth: was Stronger by Kanye West, now its Heavy Metal by Sammy Hagar.

Chase Utley: Kashmir by Led Zeppelin

Ryan Howard: Kanye West a song made just for him for a contest they hosted for his new at-bat song.

Pat Burrell: Dirty Laundry by Don Henley

Pedro Feliz: Faint by Linkin Park

Victorino's is Buffalo Soldier and Jammin by Bob Marley.

When Brad Lidge comes out of the bullpen they play Soldiers by Drowning Pool.

Cole Hamels has Thunderstruck by AC/DC.

Brett Myers was Lights Out by P.O.D. but now Enemy by Drowning Pool.

Jamie Moyer has Overdrive by Foo Fighters

Kyle Kendrick has Wherever I May Roam by Metallica

Chris Coste now uses La Grange by ZZ Top and also still uses Love Rollercoaster by Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Carlos Ruiz has Remedy by Seether.

Joe Blanton uses Hammerhead by the Offspring.

Geoff Jenkins' is Kiss Kiss by Chris Brown feat. T-Pain.

Greg Dobbs uses Megalomaniac by Incubus.

JC Romero uses Out Here Grindin by DJ Khaled feat. Akon, Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, Lil Boosie, Plies, Ace Hood, Trick Daddy.

@bonehead -- I seriously doubt that Jenkins will be in the everyday lineup if Burrell leaves. If the Bat goes on to pastures not as green, the phillies will make a move. Rumors are they will look for a CF. Which is interesting, because of Vic, but they must have someone in mind already.

If Jenkins was going to start next year, he wouldn't have sat for the last 30 days.

I think I love Geoff Jenkins just for that.

One reason I miss Bobby Abreu is that he was good for a hot Salsa number.

JW: FWIW, I haven't been around much because the quality of the posts has plunged. The success has attracted a lot of new posters and a lot of weak posters who post more than ever. If I have to read 30 posts to get to one worth reading, I won't bother. The irony is that the quality of your headers is better than ever. I'm guessing the intelligence level will rise once the series is over.

I can't take any more "Who will DH vs Kazmir" questions. Just get this thing started already.

Gosh, clout, it's bad enough that we have to worry about being wrong, now we need to worry about being insipid, too?

FWIW - I respect Chris Coste more for LaGrange.


Wow, do not read the Sheehan article on CNNSI. He's not high on the Phillies at all.

I just want this game started! Cole wins tomorrow, and then we sweep at home! Enough waiting already..

what's the name of that rap where the chorus is PHIL..A-DEL-PHI-A (That's where I'm from). Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

clout, just having a little fun. We are in the World Series. If we can't have a little fun during this lull before the series, then when can we?

FWIW, even the weak posts here are better than most of the posts over at metsblog.

mike cunningham: Garza is a fool. I said this was the one thing I could see the Rays doing that might be their downfall, thinking they had already played their "real" competition and looking at the WS as merely a formality.

I hope the Phils make him choke on his spit. Seriously, that guy is disgusting with the way he spits all the time. I hear he's a real headcase, too, and if by some miracle the Phils are able to hit him (he is really good), he could lose it on the mound at CBP.

CJ: Nah, that header would be too obviously a joke. He'd be better off with "Feliz/Dobbs Debate: With WS on the way, best course still unclear", or better yet, "Phillies success justifies Manuel's Third Base decisions".

Brian G: How about "Prophetic Dream Leads 'The Gut' To Hand the Ball To Kendrick for Game 1, Eaton in Game 2"

Clout, all this time I thought you were Mr. Sunshine. Not to worry, though. Feliz will strike out tomorrow and the intelligence level of the posts will go way up.

@TK -- "Philadelphia (that's where I come from)" by Kevin Michael, i think that's what you are thinking of:

Not the Phils need any more motivation, but Garza is a tool. Knocking him out in the 1st inning would be quite nice.

Well, here's hoping we hear this 4 more times:

clout: Come on, get the rubber duck out of your butt...


/sorry, been dying to use it all day

Does anyone have a good link for a scouting report on the Rays? I've heard the starters for the Rays rely on their fastballs, which has to bode well for us. I'd like to find out the real deal there..

Sounds like Garza has figured out the Phillies lineup. I guess we should just concede the game he starts in. He came up just short of guaranteeing a win.

And just for fun, I'll pose a question that clout will never answer bc it would make his head explode. And that is.. if you could go back and do it over, would you recommend the Phillies still sign Pedro Feliz?

The obvious answer to any true Phillies fan is yes, bc that decision is followed by a course of events that has us playing in the World Series tomorrow. It could've happened without Feliz, but in the scenario where we sign Pedro Feliz to the contract we did, we play in the World Series.

I knew that "Feliz-lovin" I've always felt in my "Gut" was right.

GPG - You actually think there are Phils' fans with mixed emotions about the Phils being in the WS?

This is the problem with your analysis. You presume that anyone with thoughts on the lineup, what works and what doesn't, has an interest in the Phils losing. That is not the case at all. I don't like when Feliz gets 4 AB against RHP, but I cheer for him with low expectations when he does. Good news for my pride, a few big hits here and there does nothing to bely the analysis: overall, he's just not as good as Dobbs.

Sorry, JW. I haven't been around simply because I'm suddenly very busy. I'd say there isn't much to do at this point but play ball, but there are new decisions to be made about DHs (which people did seem to talk about a few threads ago) and an analysis of the Rays' pitching as well. Mostly, I agree with others that the long lay-off stifles conversation.

I really like the possible lineups the Phils can run out against LHP, though my guess is that Feliz will start every game defensively (and Manuel will only use one of Dobbs and Stairs.)

There's also this constant presumption that those more analytically minded can't enjoy the game in the same way that the cheerleaders do. That is also false. I experience the same emotions as any other Philly fan, they are simply colored by my own understanding of the game, e.g. most fans are pessimistic no matter what; I am slightly more pessimistic when Romero is left in against a RHB.

Great start JW- get the reverse jinx out of the way a day early.
The Phillies provide the silver linings - we can provide the dark clouds.
Gotta love this site.

Brian G: That's about as simple-minded as it gets. (Please note, I am NOT calling you simple minded!)

Clearly retaining Adam Eaton as a starter for the Phillies to start the year was the RIGHT decision. It lead us to the World Series.

Best post of the season, if its any consolation.

Its true that there's an entire generation of Philadelphia sports fans who only know losing, and its become part of our identity. Sure, we want to win this thing--badly--but what will it mean when we can no longer claim to be the 4-sport city with the longest title drought? What will we do with all that sarcasm and bitterness? Will the title "City of Brotherly Love" lose its irony? Will being a Philly sports fan lose just a tiny bit of its appeal?

I for one and am ready to find out!

CJ - And claiming that rule 5 guy, what's his name? Lahey? Without that move we wouldn't be here today.


I do have to say that all this talk about the Rays being a "Cinderella Story" has me quite fed up. How is a team that has been in first all year considered a Cinderella Story? Worst to first is not a Cinderella Story; all those years of finishing the basement got them really good draft picks and they were projected to compete next year, but got there one year earlier than expected.

This series has the potential to be a good one, and I hope it is.

@doubleh -- also if they continue to read their own press... they can just order the rings now.

The Rays have sort of gotten a "pass" through the series because of the "other" stories out there. So little has been mentioned of flaws in their line up and bullpen. I read through bert blyleven's analysis of the line-ups and>how to pitch each batter. Take note to look at their season stats for the hitters. Do any really BLOW you away and scare you? NO. I think the lineups are fairly evenly matched. I think defensively both teams match up well, i give the edge to the Phils however because of 3B, SS, 2B and CF. Although, if the dome/turf at Trop has an effect it could erase that edge quick.

In the end it will be the Pitching that wins this series. Which makes Cole's game one SOOO important. You have to win the games that your ACE pitches. Look at the Brewers and the Dodgers. They didn't win with CC or Lowe pitching. And they are sitting at home.

If Cole wins Game 1, you do a couple of things, you halt ANY momentum that came with Game 7. And now the Rays will have lost the 3 out of the last 4 games. It will be tough to rebound from that. Ihave more confidence in Myers in game 2 after a Cole victory than a loss. But game one is huge.

The other x factor is CBP. If Jamie Moyer pitches a clean first inning. That place will be VERY difficult. VERY difficult to play in for the Rays. Fenway is a great ballpark with great fans, but they DID not show up until Big Papi hits that 3 run shot. When that happened the floor came out from underneath the Rays. A flat CBP will eat right into the rays hands.

Right now, Games 1 and 3 are the MOST important games in this series. It's COLE and the Fans/Moyer. Win those 2 games. The series is ours. The rest will take care of itself.

CJ, yep there are problems with this analogy. However, one argument last winter on this site was that the Phillies should have traded for a starting pitcher instead of trading away resources to get Lidge. I doubt we would be in the WS without him as our closer.

hh - Cinderella is over-rated anyway. Jasmine is way hotter. Ariel, too; you know, except for the tail.

"There's also this constant presumption that those more analytically minded can't enjoy the game in the same way that the cheerleaders do. That is also false."

It's true in my case. The later it is in the season, the less emotional I get. At this point I'm just lukewarm. But that's just me, I have commitment problems.

@timr -- Re: losing the identity.

I think this town needs a new character. The old "negadelphian" one just doesn't work for me. Maybe it brings ratings to 610 or posts to Beerleaguer. But it's certainly doesn't make going to a baseball game in May any fun.

I long for the day, to be a NORMAL sports town. With one of the 4 teams winning championships once every 3 to 5 years or so. I'd like that kind of normalcy.

I'm not talking a run like Boston had in the last 5 years. Just a championship once every 5 years or so... and sprinkle in another one or two every 10.

That's all.

Is that too much to ask???

let's not forget 'High Hopes' on the soundtrack, too. Though it wouldn't be played til after the 4th victory.

I may be stupid, but I'm not awed by this Rays line-up. I was sold a bill of goods about how good the Dodgers hitters were, and some were real duds (or else our pitching was real good). I know we heard a lot about Longoria and Upton's homers, but none of these guys are supermen. Looking at their stats make their line-up look like a lot of better than average to good, but not great players. Our line-up, until you hit the 3B-C rocky road, is pretty solid. I'm not afraid of no Rays.

CJ: It may be simple minded, but it's true. I was just trying to get your or clout to say "if I could go back in time to the point where Feliz was about to sign with the Phillies I would just let it happen instead of recommending to Gillick he back out and sign Matt Clement and Matt Wise instead."
I was just having fun with chaos theory, not saying I think claiming Tim Lahey was necessary for our success.

Clearly the key move the season was the spring signing of Travis Blackley (former Mariner's top prospect). Without his battling for that 5th spot in the rotation, the pitching staff would never have been has tough as it has been all year. Thank you Travis!!!!!

On the topic: I've havent been posting because I've been focusing on work during the day as I know I'm not gonna get anything done starting tomorrow night. and there's only so much you can talk about when they're not playing.

Saw the forecast for Saturday was for rain--I have tix for that game. What happens if it's ppd.? Are my tix good for Sunday or for a makeup (I suppose on Tues.)? Anybody know?

Lake Fred, I don't think anyone's that scared of the Rays offense. The rotation, on the other hand, is pretty scary.

@Sophist---"This is the problem with your analysis. You presume that anyone with thoughts on the lineup, what works and what doesn't, has an interest in the Phils losing."

Incorrect. That is not what I said. There are many people on here that can be analytical, especially during game time, that also can root for the Phils. Rooting and analysis is not mutually exclusive by any means. However, I do sense from some posters that it is more important that they are right, regardless of outcome, and even when they are proven wrong by what actually takes place on the field, they can't handle it. And yes, I do think there are some (in the minority, of course) that do have mixed feelings about this.
There is a philosophy that states that a "dumb" move by Cholly, for example, is dumb regardless of the outcome. I disagree with that. If he makes what I think is a dumb move, and it turns out to work in the Phils favor, then I'm happy to admit I was wrong. Also, I sense that there are fans that are still PO'd that the Phils hired Cholly over Jim Leyland or whoever else was available at the time, and they can't get over it. Well, it's time. Get over it. He isn't perfect, but he's what we have, and he's taking the Phils to the big show.
I was at the Vet for the WS in 1980, and although I won't bet at the Zen for this, I want to relive that experience again.

JW, great post. I have to agree with a few other posters that the more the Phils lose, the more you see comments and site traffic. It's just the nature of the beast, people will come here to vent.

Just looking back on this postseason, it seems like it was months ago when we were debating if Yvonni Gallardo would give the Phillies fits because we haven't seen him and he had a live arm. This truly has been a fun ride and it is almost 24 hours away until it continues. Can't wait for tomorrow!

"There is a philosophy that states that a "dumb" move by Cholly, for example, is dumb regardless of the outcome. I disagree with that. If he makes what I think is a dumb move, and it turns out to work in the Phils favor, then I'm happy to admit I was wrong."

No, there are some moves that are so dumb that if they work out, they're still dumb. Like bunting Victorino in the Matt Stairs game. Or say he were to use So in a key spot instead of Dobbs, and So gets a hit. It's still a dumb move. What you're saying is like saying that spending 50 bucks on lottery tickets every day is proven smart if you beat the awful odds and win. It's still dumb.

Tray, you're stretching things a bit to prove your point, but I know where you stand on this. Doubtful he would use So in a key spot instead of Dobbs, but if he did, there might be an actual reason why he made that move. We don't know. It's our job as fans to second guess the manager's every move.

Besides, as much as you may have problems with So, the odds of him getting a hit are somewhat better than winning the lottery. At least by a little.

Beware the fall lull in comments . . . . just like the calm before the storm of another 1200-1300+ comment thread tomorrow night.

This just in - mixing his legendary Swindler slow curve and 63 mph fast ball, R.J. Swindle struck out four while allowing a double and a run during batting practice action against his nephew's rec league team, the omaha mets. Comments?

I'm a little behind but I just saw the Garza interview...he did an excellent job of sounding like a tool that doesn't actually watch tape on teams he's about to pitch against.

Is it weird that I don't plan on taking my NL champions shirt and hat off until after the series?

Here is a World Series prediction I would like to share with you.

I predict the 2008 World Series will...

...have fewer nationwide viewers than the World Series in 1980.

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