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Monday, October 27, 2008


Nice to see a tiny handful of sensible posts tonight. The posters who made the following points are correct:

1. The game should've been called when the rain really started falling hard in the 4th inning. To which I add, it's a good thing for the Phils it wasn't because they would've lost 4 good innings from Hamels and had to start Myers in his place vs. Shields. That's a loss. This might be a win.

2. The game never would've been called had TB not tied it. Correct again. To end the World Series in a 5 inning rain shortened game would've been the biggest disgrace in baseball history. That just wasn't going to happen. As long as one team or the other had a lead, the game goes on even in a downpour.

3. The suspended game will be completed in Philadelphia even if they have to wait until Wednesday. The notion that they'd play this game in Tampa is silly beyond belief.

4. TV ratings drive the decision to play tomorrow instead of trying to resume tonight. Baseball long ago sold its soul to TV. Why otherwise start all games at 8:20 insuring that any kid in the Central or Eastern time zone won't ever be able to see the end of a World Series game? Fox gets a bonus game tomorrow night to juice ratings and since it's only a 3 inning game, the kids get to watch to the end.

They are saying on the news that it looks like they won't get the game in tomorrow either. I say go with Myers on Wednesday and just blow them away.

This will definitely live in baseball and Philadelphia infamy.

Fox will be very happy with the ratings when they finally play again. Everyone will be talking about this until they play it.

Rays are headed to Wilmington.

What a debocle.

Selig took a bad situation and made it far worse than it needed to be. Basically, he gave terminal cancer to a patient who came into the office only with VD. If he was really committed to making sure that 9 innings were played, he should have had the game stopped at, say, the end of the 5th when it was clear that the weather was beginning to have the potential to seriously impact play. Of course, he's a gutless weasel, so he couldn't have sacked it up and said, "Look, Philly is up 2-1 in an official game and we're stopping for rain, but this doesn't give Philly the win. We will play a full game." I would have initially been enraged by that, and I still don't think it's right to invoke "best interests of baseball clauses" to trump what are clearly written rules governing stoppages and rainouts, but I could eventually swallow that crap and live with it. Instead, the sniveling creep waits for just the right opportunity to not have to make the hard decision, with the game being played in conditions that arguably contributed to TB getting that second run. I seriously hope he chokes on his vomit in his sleep tonight.

The game should have been suspended before the sixth. The Philies had the lead, but as Selig has said, the game would not have ended (just "delayed" indefinitely) and both teams' management was aware of that.

Losing Hamels for the series (assuming they play tomorrow and there's no travel day) and getting to play half an inning in tonight's slop to tie the game are both major wins for the Rays, and both screw the Phils.

@Clout: Repeat from last thread. Point #2 is incorrect. Selig said that if the Rays had not scored, he would have declared a "rain delay" that would have lasted until play resumed. He would not allow a rain-shortened game to decide the World Series.

Yep, the only thing remotely positive out of this is that maybe some kids will get to see the end of the game.

But what do they do about the fact that there are going to be a hell of a lot of empty seats from folks who lost their stubs?

Major League Baseball is run by a bunch of imbeciles.

So can Cole still get the win?

AFish: So he would've bypassed baseball rules that decree a 5 inning game is a complete game? The Phillies would've had grounds to protest that one. Of course, since it didn't happen it's easy for him to say it now.

It isn't so obvious to me that playing the top of the 6th benefited the Rays. Selig let the Phillies get another inning from Hamels, and it seemed pretty hard to hit in those conditions. Of course, during the game, we didn't know that Selig wasn't going to allow a rain shortened game to count.

Given that Selig said he would not have let a rain shortened game decide the World Series, a decision I could understand and actually respect (but why the f*$#%ck didn't they just write a rule saying postseason games, or at least WS games, have to go 9 innings?) the fact that they played the top of the sixth is an absolute travesty.

And Selig pulling out his frakking rule book to explain the "suspend" rule is utterly embarrassing.

@Clout: Protest to who? The commissioner? Also, both GMs said they were aware of Selig's "rain delay" decision before the game.

So can Cole still get the win?

Of course -- he hasn't been officially pulled from the game yet. Phils go up in the bottom of the 6th, he stands to be the winning pitcher.

fletch: Actually it would've been far worse had the game been called earlier. You lose a Hamels start and have to begin from scratch with Myers vs. Shields. At least now the Phils have 4 innings to win, the Rays 3. HUGE break for Phils.

this is such a joke

AFish: It's interesting that you can just make up new rules as you go along. The rule book says a game called for inclement weather is a complete game if it goes at least 4 1/2 innings.

HUGE break for Phils.

Posted by: clout | Tuesday, October 28, 2008 at 12:09 AM

yea, ok.

With the home team ahead, obviously.

@AFish: It is so much easier to hit in the rain than it is to pitch and field. I've heard this from several ballplayers and Williams just said it himself on Mid-Game Live. Says you don't have to worry about coming down on your plant leg and slipping off of the mound when you hit.

We're really lucky that no one was injured.

redbeard: Read the whole post.

So if the weather is completely shitty tomorrow, and this game doesn't restart until Wednesday, and if worse comes to absolute worst (come on, we're Phillies fans here, you at least have to think about it) and it goes to game seven on Friday (Halloween!), is Cole available for a few innings if need be? (Any other manager, and maybe other pitcher, and I'd say three days rest, 7th game of the World Series, he didn't throw that many pitches tonight, he should be able to start Game 7 if it's pushed back to Friday, but we know that isn't going to happen.)

iknow, im just fumming. i cant see any bright side cause im blinded by rage right now.

I don't think anyone could've respected the game being called and the phils being awarded a 2-1 rain shortening WS Championship...we would have never heard the end of it

Are the Rays really headed to Wilmington?

Make that one positive thing that has happened.

@Clout: Not sure why you're debating with me. I'm just reporting what Selig said.

A few final thoughts before I call it a night...

The most important reason baseball is unlikely tomorrow is "House." Fox built this World Series schedule to protect their Tuesday night franchise. I think there would need to be blue skies before they allow baseball to mess up their TV lineup.

Also, I just watched ESPN's 20-something minute wrap up and heard from a ton of Rays, but no Phillies. No conspiracy, just disappointed with that kind of reporting.

The ESPN analysts have all jumped back on the Rays bandwagon -- going so far as to call this a win for the Rays because Hamels is out. It will be that much sweeter if the Phils can put this away when play resumes.

I just can't believe they didn't call it at the end of the 5th and come back on Tuesday to finish it. It's clearly unfair to have the Phillies pitch the top half in terrible conditions, then the Rays get to come in the next day and pitch in fine weather.

That is what infuriates me more than anything else right now. I can't believe that was allowed to happen.


The Hamels start wouldn't have been lost if the game were called earlier. Selig said the game would have been delayed indefinitely, not called. We only would have lost Hamels' top of the 6th.

Bud Selig was too busy reading "My Pet Goat" to make a decision.

"AFish: It's interesting that you can just make up new rules as you go along."

Best interests of baseball clause, I guess.

No, the 6th inning should not have been played but neither should the fifth. It was raining too darn hard. As to finishing this game, I would not use Myers for a possible 3 innings. We need to save him for a possible game in St. Pete. If he goes any innings, he's done for game 6. Should there be a 7th game, Hamels should start. For Tuesday or Wednesday's finish of this one, go with Eyre, Madson/Romero and Lidge.

There's really no doubt that if Selig activated his indefinite "rain delay" after 5, people would be bitching forever. Selig decided to let the Phillies get another inning from Hamels, and the fact that the Rays scored was gravy for him. But I think Selig was trying to help the Phillies by playing the top of the 6th. If the game had been "delayed" after 5, Hamels would have been gone, and the pen would have had to eat at least 4 innings.

Oh well, this sums up Phillies baseball. Just when you think you've seen it all, something totally crazy happens.

I'm from Wilmington and am hoping the Rays end up at a totally boring hotel with no decent restaurants nearby and a 10 x 12 basement, windowless fitness center with one broken exercise bike, and spend two days and two nights bored out of their minds until Wednesday while the Phils relax at home and hit the CBP fitness center. As a matter of fact I believe that description fits just about all hotels in Wilmington.

Good night all, got to try to unwind from this and get some sleep.

i think i heard on fox that not too many phils were talking to the media except ryan howard and probably rightfully so i mean what are they going to say except maybe a lot of stuff that may regret especially in their pissed off frame of mind im sure!

1. I basically agree with the 4 points clout made.
2. Everyone needs to get their panties unbunched about flipping out on Selig. He was in an impossible situation. What is with people who have to find someone to demonize when things go wrong? Mother Nature screwed us, not Bud Selig.
3. The Phillies are mentally weak if they use this as an excuse. They need to show up whenever this game restarts. It sucks, yes. I'm really pissed off that we get a chance to win the world series and the absolute ridiculous happens. But sometimes life sucks. You deal with it.

I saw that too, ESPN and Phil Gammons in particular were infuritating in tehir pro Rays appraoch declaring thisa victory for the Rays and they should be able to get the WS now. I hope the Phils watch that and really wreak havoc when play resumes.

fletch: Selig didn't say the game would've been suspenbded indefinitely after 2 innings did he? Under the rules that's a rain out and the game starts from scratch.

AFish: Not arguing with you, arguing with the commissioner. If he's going to make up a new rule before the game and everyone agrees on it, why not tell the fans and the TV audience before the game begins?

Rays are either staying at the Wyndham or in Hotel DuPont. Both, especially DuPont, are pretty nice as far as hotels go.

Brian G: I agree with everything you said except Selig. He was a terrible commissioner before this incident; I don't care how impossible the situation was for him to make. This is what he gets paid the big bucks for and he generally fails at it.

Just ask the Houston Astros.

To use myers in the 7 th somehow might put him back in the closer mentality and is that what we want? where he starts over throwing right away and he also has been having lots of trouble in the first inning if you also look at it as starting the game over i hope the Gut makes the right move!!

Clout, I think the idea is that, under extreme circumstances, he might make up a new rule during the game, pursuant to his "best interests of baseball" clause emergency powers. Not that he had a new rule in his back pocket before the game ever started.

ESPN is saying it's going to be resumed on Tuesday, but I was under the impression that Bud wasn't sure if it was tomorrow or Wednesday.

@clout under the rules official games in which a team has the lead aren't delayed "24 hours... 48 hours... until Thanksgiving" either. But Selig seems to think the rules don't matter when it's the World Series. I'm not trying to understand the man. I'm just relaying what he said.

Well, seems that we're always out to make history one way or another.

Oh well, time for bed.

doubleh: Fair enough point(the Astros situation was pretty bad). Although people railed on him for the all star game tie (what was his option there?) and that created the dumb "this time it counts" situation we're in now. Sometimes if people relaxed a little we wouldn't get awful knee jerk "solutions" that are worse than the problem.

One disturbing thing is that the Rays were acting like this was practically a tied series now and were definitely upbeat. I only saw Hamels interviewed and he gave the usual sports politically correct interview. We can't let this change the momentum. We still have one more at bat than the Rays.

There is too much talk on here about game 6 and 7. Before the game tonight everyone was talking about wrapping this thing up. We need to just concentrate on those final 12 outs. I saw go with Myers. What if this thing ends up going well into extra innings? This way we have a real starter out there and then we'll have our bullpen ready for the extra innings. Time to go all in and wrap this up in Philly.

Also time to stop complaining about Selig. This will only bring us down. The decision is done and now we must deal with the situation at hand. This is not time to get distracted by self pity and needless arguing.

It is 2-2 in the bottom of the 6th and we have Cole Hamels coming up. This is all that is important right now. The rest is done and in the past.

Stop complaining about Selig... funny... I sat at a private club tonight which is HUGELY in the Phillies favor and listened to two people whine how they could not watch CNN instead of a, and I quote, "stupid baseball game." Then I listen to Selig, who did his best G.W. Bush impression ever just to supplement the FOX folks who will end up losing money this series.. OH FUCKING WELL... The Phils deserve to win... PERIOD!!!

so if clint hurdle doesnt bring in wagner and warm up lidge for 3 hours...

Are you kidding me... You really think the Phillies will lose in the dome... DUDE.. get a life.... This game doesn't get suspended to Florida... Any EBAY tickets for Tampa have been bought up by Phils fans.. But it won't matter.. its not going there.

Selig definitely said that if the Phillies were ahead, he would have kept the game in rain delay mode for as long as necessary until it can be continued. That actually makes me feel somewhat better, as it erases the appearance that they waited for Tampa to tie before stopping play.

As for whether it worked for or against the Phillies that they didn't stop the game earlier, it clearly worked against us. We got 4 more innings out of Cole, but to what effect? It's basically a 0-0 game now, so it's as it he didn't pitch at all. If they'd stopped the game at the start of the 4th, we would resume play with a 2-0 lead in the 4th & Happ or Condrey pitching. Plus, with Hamels having worked a short outing, he would probably be able to come back & pitch again in a Game 7. Instead, we will resume the game tied 2-2 in the 6th with Durbin or Eyre pitching, & Hamels probably done for the series. I would have greatly preferred Option 1, but it's academic now.

i have always been opposed to the "4.5 innings makes a game rule." baseball is the only sport in which something that occurs on the field in a game can be erased imagine how many homeruns have been erased because the weather later disrupted play? especially for a sport in which records are so important.

every pitch should count, and the rule should be that every game lasts nine innings. that way, if rain starts heavily, the umps can halt play and resume when conditions allow, every time, every game, playoffs or mid-April games.

Len: Pitching Myers on Wednesday would be insanity. First of all, Myers sucks in the first inning -- which is not a great trait to have in a 3-inning game. Second, what happens if we lose Wednesday's game? Then who starts on Thursday? If it's a 3-inning game, I want Madson & Lidge pitching 2 of those innings, if not all 3.

It'll be Eyre pitching against Crawford almost certainly, right?

Beyond that...who do the Rays pitch against (pinch hitter for Hamels) tomorrow night? I'd think a lefty would be wise, given the horribleness of the Phillies' right-handed bench. If so, do the Phillies double switch with Bruntlett? Or do they bring in Coste to pinch hit? Or something else?

Red: it really sucks that something that happened 4 months ago could possibly affect the outcome of the World Series. But under old rules, the Rays would have homefield anyway with the better record, right?

Another note- Who leads off the bottom of the 6th? It sucks because we aren't going to know who is going to be pitching, I assume Price but maybe Balfour stays out there? Who do you hand the bat to?

But under old rules, the Rays would have homefield anyway with the better record, right?

Old rules were that the leagues alternated home field advantage. The AL has had the home field advantage for multiple years now.

I live in SF, but was listening to 610 on my iphone while coming home from the bar. The sportsbreak person (maybe Jan Goram? I forgot..) said that the game wont start before 8pm tomorrow. Is that true? Did anyone else hear that?

Can't be easy as a philly fan, can it?

Example of the previous: Royals had a better record than the Phillies in 80, but Phillies had home field advantage. Until the strike, it was AL in odd years, NL in even, then it switched after that until they went to the current ridiculous "All Star Game decides home field advantage" rule.

if they stopped the game at the start of the fourth it wouldnt be official and would just start from scratch, right?

If it's Price pitching for the Rays, you go with Coste or Bruntlett, I guess.

clout: I'm no expert on this rule but it seems to me that what Selig proposed wouldn't really be breaking any rules. The rules say that a 5-inning game is an official game, but I don't think there's any rule that dictates or limits how long the umps or league are permitted to wait before declaring a game rained out. His point was that they would have waited it out as long as necessary, and I think that would have been the correct decision. No one wants to see the World Series decided in a rain-shortened game. That would be about the most joyless victory scenario I can imagine.

Interesting article from the Courier Post Online (doesn't name the Phillies players):

"Inconvenience was why the Phillies clubhouse all but boiled over after the game. Inconvenience was why what began as a day not of hope, but of destiny quickly dissipated into disgust and bursts of anger directed at the television where Commissioner Bud Selig held a press conference on why Game 5, tied at 2-2, was suspended in the middle of the sixth inning.

'That (expletive deleted) guy,' one pitcher said as he saw commissioner Bud Selig before walking out the back door of the clubhouse. 'I wouldn’t let him supervise one of my (bowel movements). He has no clue. Not one (expletive deleted) clue.'

'(Expletive deleted),' one position player said in the direction of one television pausing only for a moment before leaving. 'He’s a moron. How stupid can one person be?'"

So if Price is pitching, Brunlett hits and Charlie can't use him as his beloved defensive replacement. OTOH, Coste is the back-up catcher and you need him in case Ruiz gets hurt or ejected. Strange to have so much time to discuss a simple PH substitution.

"If it's Price pitching for the Rays, you go with Coste or Bruntlett, I guess."

Would imagine they go with Taguchi there...

Don't want to burn the backup C and need to save Bruntlett to pull Burrell an inning later...

Yeah so maybe So gets his chance to get another WS hit?

this could be how it was all supposed to unfold for taguchi, earning a place in phils fans hearts forever... or he could pop out to short.

John: Longoria made the last out, so it'll be Navarro, Baldelli & Bartlett -- 3 right-handers. Durbin has been terrible in the post-season. He can't be trusted. I say you switch up the normal order of things, by having Madson pitch the 7th, then bringing in Romero to pitch to Iwamura and Crawford in the 8th.

For the Phillies, Hamels is scheduled to lead off when the game resumes. With Balfour in the game, Cholly will probably use Jenkins, knowing that Maddon is going to counter by immediately going to the lefty. At that point, I think Cholly will pinch hit with Taguchi. He probably wants to save Bruntlett for later, as even Cholly doesn't normally swap Bruntlett for Burrell in tie games (unless it's to pinch run).

Well all this craziness has got me tired. Maybe it was all the Crown I drank during the game, but nevertheless.

Praying for clear skies, so we can see the Rays demise. (finally)

Whoever pitches the 6th for TB is probably going 1 inning as the pitchers spot comes up 4th.

Last time I looked... The Phillies have their entire bench available... Last time I also looked, Marty Bystrom went 5-0 in 1980... Oh my... I don't remember them talking like him they do about David Price...

Game will be played tomorrow or Wednesday... Actually.. knowing weather around here and bad meteorlogy, it will be tomorrow...

I, for one, hope it rains until Saturday. Then they can just bring back Hamels on normal rest.

This whole thing is embarrassing for MLB, and Selig needs to grow a set and stand up to the TV networks. They need to stop scheduling so many offdays during the season and make the season end sooner. And when teams finish postseason series earlier, they need to push ensuing series start dates up. They could have played this series a week ago. Playing baseball in Philadelphia and other cities in the Northeast in late October is idiotic.

I hope it rains for days. The more embarassing it is for MLB, the better.

I just hope whenever this game resumes the Phillies are determined to win this game and not let it go back to Tampa. Don't let the anger over this clusterf*ck boil over into the resumed game. It won't do them any good. Channel it to slay some Rays.

'That (expletive deleted) guy,' one pitcher said as he saw commissioner Bud Selig before walking out the back door of the clubhouse. 'I wouldn’t let him supervise one of my (bowel movements). He has no clue. Not one (expletive deleted) clue.'

Myers. I knew that before I even saw the word 'pitcher.' The position player's a little harder - could easily be Dobbs, Jenkins, Werth, Vic. Probably not Pat, any quote from him would sound a little dumber.

Hey God (or Pacman Jones), if you are listening, make it rain non stop until saturday so cole can start again.

Tray: I thought the same thing. Had to be Myers--at least it didn't have the word "retard" in it, so that's a step forward for him (would have been a dead giveaway).

As for the position player, I agree it can't be Pat. It would have been all 4-letter words from what I've heard of him. I'm thinking it's Rollins. He often speaks like that, in question form. And he's a player rep, so it makes sense.

Here's what I don't get... Most of American baseball fans work first shift or 9-5 and have families.. (yes, that means kids will continue to play, watch and love the game which continues its existence). Fox starts these games at 8:30 because we have to listen to the studio crap, run the commercials and pay the bills...including the I Dream of Genie pregame garbage.. ALL YEAR LONG we start games on the east coast at 7:05... This game woulda been done and over if it wasn't for corporate America. And that is totally assuming the checks to FOX didn't bounce...

So in the 100+ year history of the World Series, this has never happened before? Seriously? There's gotta be some precedent, anybody know?

RipJGarcia: Dont forget that there are us Philly fans on the west coast too. A 705 start would mean that most of us would miss the first 4 innings. An 830 start is hard enough!

A friend of mine has an 8 year old son who loves baseball, but he said that he had to record the games and play them later for his son because he didn't like the content of the commercials (ads for "Fringe" and "Saw 92").

As a West Coaster, the starting time is a disadvantage, but the ending time is an advantage.

@GoPhilsGo: not to mention the constant Cialis/Viagra commercials. "Dad, what's a 4 hour erection?"

Shawn, great point. So nice to have a mute button.

My friend, I guarantee you that I respect everyone on the West Coast (exception being TJ Simers). Funny I watch NBC right now and just heard a reference to SF.. I understand your need to see a game, but it has already been admitted that this would be a ratings disaster, and I hear from a lotta folks on this side of the states that they have trouble staying up for these games.

Thanks for being a fan, though.

I have been one for 33 years since my parents dressed me up when I was 2.

OK. Frustration being redirected at Gillick and the Phillies groundskeeper after reading this interview.

1. Gillick needs to realize that he needs a FULL game from Cole, and therefore push a rainout before Game 5 starts if necessary.

2. Hey groundskeeper, tell Bud the field is in terrible shape when the Phils are UP! Why leave anything to chance?!

But, see, that's what's wrong with baseball now. It's all about getting the corporate ad money and prime time TV, and they don't care if it's b*ner pills that pay for games or what-have-you.

It's ESPN rooting for a Game 7 because they can squeeze more programming and hence, more money out of the WS (because it isn't technically a "series" until it goes to a Game 6 or 7, whatever that means).

I know this is how everything on TV is these days and it's useless to complain about it, but it depresses me nonetheless. Selig caved and went for the money instead of the real "best interests of the game".

I'm not clear on what Myers is so mad about though.

I regret to report that my previously unbounded optimism has been (yes) washed away. I think I was the first one to note that rain was being forecast for tonight. When I checked that forecast at this time last night, there was no rain predicted. Then I saw a revised report for light rain/showers beginning right around game time. But I had no idea that the entire region was to come under siege with swirling winds and monsoons which would only keep increasing in intensity over the next 24 hours. And evidently I wasn't the only one ambushed by the emergent pattern.

The glass-half-full crowd sees that it's simply a 2-2 game, perfectly manageble, with the advantage of a better bullpen and last ups. But I can't quite bring myself to cheer for that situation. Whatever momentum the Phillies had achieved with the two previous games, and then swelled with Victorino's big hit in the first, is gone now. Utterly vanished. It's no wonder the Rays are feeling good and the Phillies are glum. It's a terribly unfortunate situation.

When Victorino got that hit and Hamels cruised through the first three, everything I had believed about the nature of this game was coming to pass. They had it. They *had* it. And then it started to rain. The dynamic of the game changed with its appearance. Hamels did his best not to let it affect him, but it did. His command was far more sporadic. And how many 'passed balls' for Ruiz this year - the play that enabled the tying run to move into scoring position? And if we're going to shout out points at which we each thought time should have been called, I'll throw mine out there: when Rollins lost that pop-up in the elements, it was time right then and there. It was a joke at that point, and I have no clue how the umpires couldn't or wouldn't recognize it. Clearly, there was considerable denial involved, either on their part, or on Selig's, or on the grounds crew, or on the weather advisor, or everyone combined. The intervals between half-innings were like delays unto themselves - with all the sandbags and rakes, Ortho should have stepped in as an impromptu sponsor. In that sixth inning, there was standing water in the infield. The umpires, had they been acting on their own judgment, surely would not have let play continue through all that had there not been an edict from higher up to keep playing. Selig says the grounds crew said it was going to be just fine, even though any set of eyes and a passing semblance of attention to the doppler would have said otherwise.

But it ultimately makes little difference that they stopped it in the sixth and not the fourth. The bottom line is that I'm tremendously deflated and disappointed by this outcome, or non-outcome, and there's really nothing left to do but go with Milli Vanilli and blame it on the *^$&@# rain.

Yes, the Phillies could pick up some quick runs when they start back up and shut 'em down with Madson and Lidge. Absolutely no reason why that couldn't happen. But it's going to feel like sudden death, and the two teams are going to go into the resumption on far more equal ground than they began with tonight. The one true silver lining I glean from what's happened here is that with the delay, even if they do lose Game 5, they would know they'd have Hamels to come out for a seventh game, which should be enough to reduce anyone's notion of panic.

Did the rainstorm really come as such a big surprise? Perhaps they shouldn't have played at all?

RSB, I agree that the point to stop the game was the popup to Rollins. That play felt like it went on for 20 minutes and he just couldn't follow the ball.
At this point, it's only to the Rays advantage if the Phils let that happen, and I don't think they will. It's a tie game in the 6th. Not the worst position to be in.

RipJ: agreed with you that the MLB scheduling decisions are due to ratings, and not to help fans on the west coast.

I do think, though, that the "kids can't see the final innings on the east coast" rationale is a funny one. I'm 30 and dont have any kids, but will someday. Grew up in Marlton, went to Cherokee, and all through high school, I never got home before 645 pm because of high school sports. So I'm assuming west coast kids would never be able to see most of the games if they were started at 4pm pacific.

Here's a crazy solution: lets make all of the USA one time zone. All of Germany is one time zone. All of India is one time zone. All of China is one time zone!

Why can't us?

Tray: He's mad at the way this entire game was handled. He's angry that the game was played in the first place or allowed to continue when everyone knew the conditions were adversely affecting play.

The groundskeeper and Gillick obviously played a part in all of this, but it is ultimately up to Selig to bring the hammer down. And he waited too long. End of story. The Phillies restarting this game with a 1-run lead is more advantageous than starting it tied.

Spitz, if you did that, I would never hear the age old question that I always get when I call the family on the East Coast; "What time is it there?"

Oh yeah, we have no momentum anymore. We're essentially up 3-1 with three games to play, and in the first game, we get a frame to score in that they don't. It's a little dispiriting, but far from a crushing turn of events. They'll all be over it by tomorrow.

No - actually doubleh has it right. The rain isn't so much to be blamed as the fact that they undermine the integrity of the game by attempting to play its ultimate showcase during a decidedly unfavorable time of the year. The baseball season is entirely too long. The World Series used to be finished by mid-October, and that's just the way it should have been. Each successive week you push it past that point, and you increase the chances of having unsightly conditions and circumstances. Pure short-sightedness. Is it really worth it to cling to a five-week glut of exhibition games or a 162 game schedule in order to wring every last dollar of revenue if this is the kind of price to be paid? Any notion held by Bud Selig or anyone involved with the administration of MLB which purports to upholding the 'best interests of the game' is one of the baldest examples of hypocrisy imaginable.

Tray: I hope they're not over it by tomorrow and use it as motivation to turn the game into a bloodbath.

I know there's no crying in baseball, but I want to see crying...from the Rays dugout and press conference immediately following the Phillies win.

The problem isn't the 162 game schedule, it's the playoff schedule. There was a time when there were no divisions, one team came in first in each league and then followed the WS. Those days ain't coming back. Anyway, as much as I want the Phils to make it every year, weather hasn't really affected post season games much (until today)and it could have been an Angels/Dodgers WS and you could play that in December.

First, MLB should have started this game at 3pm and it would have been over before the rain beam too heavy. They really need to hire a real meteorologist ( and coincidentally I am looking for employment in that department right now ).
Second, the Rays bullpen has seen more work the past 2 games and can use this delay to rest up.
The Phillies still have the edge though with 3 more outs to work with. Go Phils! Finish this thing off at home!!!

John Kruk said the conditions didn't affect the game. What game was he watching?

I'm having a really hard time being optimistic right now about the Phils' chances, and just this morning I felt like we had finally turned the corner in this championship-starved city. It seemed to good to be true; the games seemed to be coming easily to us--could the Phillies really end this in 5 and win the World Series? Hamels is on the mound. It's destiny, right?


Destiny Delayed.

GPG: John Kruk is doing what he's being paid to do and taking the heat off of MLB. If he tells the truth like Mitch Williams did, he'll get fired.

Baseball isn't football and shouldn't be played in these types of conditions. It's a finesse game...and if any of the players had been seriously hurt can you imagine what would have happened then? Was anyone else holding their breath when they saw Hamels get hit on his pitching hand?


hh, true. He was also getting on the Phils for not scoring enough runs, never mind the fact that the game isn't over and the Phils have 4 more innings to play.
Any story that can be spun in the Rays favor will be.

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EST. 2005

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