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Tuesday, October 28, 2008

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When that Pena hit went through the infield, I blurted an expletive like a man with Tourette's because I knew that was the opening Selig/umps were looking for to stop the game.

It's snowing.Hard.

I owned a computer compnay that worked on Wall street I can tell you how much money our software made for the banks--a lot. So its pretty shocking to me to read that Cholly said:"To me, we're kind of the old throwback guys. A lot of teams go with a computer or different companies that sell you software that you can get all the information about every club. We don't do that as much as some teams do. But what we get, our reports, they're fantastic."
He is right it is a throwback. I do think the scouts gave us good stuff but for the few bucks you have to pay for the software I would get it.
Look at Tampa their payroll is $40 m. they may (bite my tongue) win the WS our payrollis almost three times that. They use Moneyball it works! Anyone seen how many WS rings are in Boston they use it.
What's wrong with technology?

I'm not a cut-and-paste-into-new-thread guy. A few of us were discussing/debating the pitcher/PH situation in the last thread. If you care, go look at the last thread.

The idea to lead off with So isn't actually a bad idea. Probably the one and only time he should be pinch hitting in this Series.

God, just get it over with. They better wrap it up tonight because I do NOT want to have to go back to Tampa and the Chunderdome.

Do think they will start things off with the plan of throwing Durbin in the 7th, Madsen in the 8th and Lidge in the 9th? They won't send Myers out there to try and close the door will they?

If anyone is in the mood to throw blame somewhere other than Selig and Fox, look no further than Pat Burrell, who is having a historically bad World Series following two-plus months of crap. From taking borderline pitches (ump saved him at least twice yesterday) to fouling off gifts right down the chute. All series fouling off pitches that should be cranked. Come on, Pat.

To follow up on optimum's point from the last thread. I feel almost 100% certain that Maddon will keep Balfour in the game because it will force Cholly to burn a bench player by announcing Jenkins as the pinch hitter. Then Maddon will immediately counter by bringing in the lefty, forcing Cholly to pinch hit for Jenkins -- most likely with Taguchi.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of burning a bench player just to get a favorable righty-lefty matchup for a terrible pinch hitter who has almost no chance of getting on base either way. Doesn't seem worth the trade-off to me. If I were Cholly, I'd call Maddon's bluff & bring Taguchi right up to the plate to face Balfour. Better yet, I'd bring up Bruntlett, as he has a better chance of getting on base than Taguchi. If he wants to replace Burrell on defense later on, he can do it with Jenkins.

Do think they will start things off with the plan of throwing Durbin in the 7th, Madsen in the 8th and Lidge in the 9th? They won't send Myers out there to try and close the door will they?

That was an absolute disgrace. They should have suspended the game before the top of the 6th happened. It's easier to hit than pitch/field in that kind of weather, that's the only reason the Rays got that run.

Instead of trying to half-ass a repair job to the infield (and while Cole was on the mound), they should have suspended it then and there. Another moronic move by Bud Selig.

Anyone else notice that Burrell had that ball just as Upton was reaching third. He should have been out. On the one hand, you could say that the wet field slowed a good throw down before it got to Ruiz. On the other hand, you could say that with a throw that bounced closer to the plate, Upton would have been out.

Wish someone would tell us what Fox wants tonight-cancelled game or 10 or 11 PM start so we could all plan accordingly.

There could be a chance of drizzle and they'll say here's HOUSE and FRINGE!

They control the schedule, let's stop pretending.

I also think that Madson should pitch the 7th and Romero all or part of the 8th. The reason is simple: the matchups. 3 right-handers are due up for Tampa next inning, followed by the pitcher's spot. After that, it's back to the top of the Rays' order, which has 3 left-handers in the first 4 spots -- Iwamura, Crawford and Pena.

I'll be very upset if I see Durbin start off the game. Its been clear for a while he's cooked. I'd rather see Happ or even Condrey.

I agree about Pat. I thought he was at least going to make it up with nailing Upton at the plate, but the throw went to the 1st base side.

Please, keep Durbin off the field.

phlipper: As soon as Burrell threw home on Pena's hit, the first 5 words out of my mouth were, "What a weak-ass throw!" Or does that count as only 4 words? I'll have to look up "weak-ass" in the dictionary to see if it counts as 1 word or 2.

The Rays got their offense going because Hamels wasn't able to get a grip on the ball, and throw his changeup.

This game should be 2-1 right now.

The Daily News has an article detailing ran reaction to the suspension. One was quoted as saying, "It's worse than a loss."

Sums it up for me.

You're talking about going to a World Series game and there's no National Anthem, no intros, and the Phillies are up first.

Should. Not. Happen.

Will it matter if they pull it out and we can all swing from the traffic lights anyhow? Not as much. But there will still be something cheap and compromised about the whole affair.

It could have been avoided. If they trusted the radar enough to have put off the game 90 minutes on Saturday, they damn well had the ability to trust what they saw going into last night and just move the dates back. People would have been upset and put off, but as soon as those rains came, everyone would have recognized that it was obviously the right move. But no - instead we witnessed an onslaught of delusion and denial. If they learn *anything* at all from this, I hope it would be that you don't simply go ahead and start a game of this magnitude simply because it happens not to be raining at the scheduled outset, when you've got a forecast calling for the advent of heavy rain an hour later.

It can't be anyone but Madson. This is a no-brainer. Durbin has been horrendous and I don't want Clay Condrey within 20 feet of the pitchers mound in a World Series game. Cholly has had all night to think about this one. Surely he can't blow it.

Ok, so there's no option other than Madson, Romero, Lidge. Glad we got that settled.

I really thought that Upton would be out at the plate - it looked like he got a terrible jump on the ball. I couldn't believe, given where he was when Burrell fielded the ball, that he scored so easily.

Pat has been frustrating to put it mildly, but I'm not going to blame him for the Phils being up 3-1 in the WS and tied in game 5 when Bud decided to get off his ass and respond to the weather.

I disagree about Burrell's throw against Upton. The ball got to him after Upton had hit thrid base, Burrell was in medium-deep left field, and I was surprised the play was even halfway close. As soon as the ball cleared the infield, I thought Upton was a cinch to score.

No question, though, that Burrell has been the unequivocal goat of the series to date.

They're not really going to compound the stupidity by trying to play tonight, are they?

I'm willing to give MLB a pass on starting the game. I'm not willing to give them a pass on continuing the game after 4 innings. That game should have been called at that point, with a new 9-inning game starting today, whether depending.

The conditions were clearly unplayable by the end of the 4th.

If the Phils don't win this series (and borrowing from BAPs technique, I'll say that I fully expect them to lose miserably), this city will implode.

PtB has definitely cost himself several millions of dollars with his play as of late. He looks too excited to get walked and I know his lack of speed on the basepaths is no secret, but the shot of him running to third was awful. He looked older than he is.

Start the game vs Happ or Condrey? No way. The Rays have 3 more chances at the plate if the game doesn't go extra innings. You manage this game if the Rays were coming up in the 7th in a tie game not a new game that is starting from stratch.

The decision-making last night reminded me a lot of the tied all-star game. When presented with trouble on the fly, Selig seems to take a "it will all work itself out" approach to the game. I can't wait to see what stupid rule they work up this off season to "respond" to what happened.

RSB: They will surely try to "play" tonight. I think whoever suggested that Fox wants the viewers, even if they don't take the field, is right. I wouldn't be surprised if they string us along all day. It will surely come down to the various executives figuring out, "Are we in deep enough crap that we shouldn't attempt this?"

MG: I agree. I think you have to assume that, in 4 innings at the plate, you're going to score. Manage accordingly. Madson-Lidge, with Romero ready for any lefthanded trouble that Madson encounters in the 8th.

I echo Weitzel's finger of blame at Burrell. He has been horrible, and I would have rung him up twice yesterday, that ump was squeezing that zone.

I think Bud Selig will force them to play tonight, because that's the absolute worst option, and Bud is a moron. His name is 'Bud' for f**k's sake...

R. Billingsly & JW - Thanks for clearing that situation up; the question then seems to be not whether to send Hamels to the plate, but whether you want Balfour facing 0 or 1 batters (presuming he is lifted if facing a lefty ph). In this case, I say go with a lefty, probably Stairs, on grounds that I'd rather have someone like Price throwing to as many batters as possible.

You figure: it's a 2-2 game with two excellent bullpens, meaning that the game will likely be won--in whatever inning--on a pitch from somebody who has been left in the game one batter too many.

And besides, I think I feel better about Stairs vs. Price than I do So vs. Balfour (Coste is probably off limits until later to be safe, and Bruntlett might be better used later anyway), largely because I have no confidence in So under any circumstances.

By the way, I highly recommend that you all click on the Colt McCoy entry under the "Yardbarker Network" heading at the side of this page. It's quite amusing.

optimum: Why on earth do you want to see MORE of David Price? Stairs against a lefty is an automatic out. So Taguchi can give us that just fine. I'd prefer to save Stairs for a time when he might actually be able to help us.

Is it really snowing in/around Philly? Bolaris on 610 made it sound like getting this game in tonight is a total lost cause.

Any pics of the snow?

bay_area_phan - But the Rays have 3 left handed relief pitchers in the bullpen. Why not force them to use one early on, as opposed to letting Tampa Bay save them for later?

@GM. Blame Burrell for what, the rain? He's been awful, but I doubt the weather is his fault.

BAP - Fair enough; and at least So can run if he were to get on, a point in his favor. The options aren't terrific any way you slice it.

I gotta admit, this absurdity is putting me back in the comfort zone as a Phillies fan.

The weather report says there is a chance of snow tomorrow. When is this game really going to happen?

"The Rays got their offense going because Hamels wasn't able to get a grip on the ball, and throw his changeup."

Pat didn't seem to have any trouble throwing his!?!?

didn't you hear Bud, GPG, he said Thanksgiving

why don't they just move the game to Miller Park? that worked so well for the Astros earlier in the season!!

Baseball and Football on Thanksgiving. That would be interesting.

Assuming they play on Wednesday, would Thursday be a travel day? If so, game 7 would be played on Saturday, so bringing Cole back after 4 days rest shouldn't be so readily dismissed.

Just to add: my reasoning was that burning Balfour immediately means you're into the bp one batter sooner, increasing the possibility for a more favorable matchup down the line (though admittedly, the line is not that long). Since Price is a starter by nature, he may be able to roll through three innings anyway, making the point moot. He also may be the kind of guy to get better as a game goes on, making the idea of getting to him sooner a bad one on my part.

I like that it takes a disaster like last night to force MLB to come up with a Plan B. What do they do all day up there? They have literally NO backup plan or idea what to do if there's a rain delay in October, on the East Coast? It's basically the freaking winter.

Yeah- give credit to Carlos Pena for getting that hit. Sure, for anyone who watched "post-game live" on CSN in the Philly area last night you heard the solid points Mitchy-poo was making.
To summarize:
1) Cole couldn't throw his change-up or curve (which he rarely throws anyway but still) because he couldn't get a good grip on the ball or risk leaving a ball up in the hitting zone
2) Therefore, he was transformed into a 1-pitch pitcher. In my opinion, he eseentially became a left-handed Adam Eaton.
3) Pitching in that weather is IMPOSSIBLE. You can't get a grip on the ball. You can't plant your front foot when going through your wind-up so you have no accuracy, and you can barely field the ball or make an accurate throw in the field.
4) It's an embarrassment that the Rays got an extra inning of Hamels soaking wet and unable to pitch his game, while whenever the game resumes, Balfour or Price will be able to pitch under completely different conditions.

On a side note, you can't waste Myers/Moyer/Blanton because you may need each of them for games 6/7 if necessary.

If they don't play today, Hamels is almost certainly available for a Game 7. And your options for using an extra starting pitcher out of the 'pen in either Games 5 or 6 increase greatly. That's the silver lining here.

i'm so mad that i'm reading political coverage to calm down. that's how bad it's gotten.

notice, doing actual work did not figure in there.

I KNOW most of the Phans on this blog are from Philly, but the degree of desperation is unbelievable. I am a Phillies diehard that, perhaps, has benefitted from never living near the Delaware Valley. Sure, it has kept me from attending as many games as I might like (since half my life was lived in California and the other half near Washington, DC) but at least I am not inflicted with the woe-is-me-I'm-from-Philly-and-we-never-win disease.

I think Selig made the right call to suspend the game, even if it was a half inning too late for most of our tastes. And he made the absolute right call to not let the WS end in a rain-shortened game. Imagine if we were on the other end of such a WS loss!

The Phillies get four innings of offense to the Rays' three. The top of our lineup is about to bat. What more could we ask for? Oh, yes, how about a few hits with men on base? Can't believe no one has raised the point that the only reason the score is tied 2-2 is because the friggin Phillies' hitters STILL aren't producing with men in scoring position. Maybe we are just used to that scenario after 5 games. But, again, last night we left ducks on the pond over and over (not so bad an analogy for last night's game!).

I doubt the game gets played tonight. If it keeps raining, they will postpone it early. As it is, unless the Phils open the gates, the stadium will only be partially full. How many fans from last night's game traveled a long way to get there like a friend of mine in No. Va.? They can't go back tonight or tomorrow. They will wait until better conditions exist after all of the criticism baseball took last evening.

In the worst case, a Wednesday game gives the Phils the chance to go back to Hamels Friday in St. Pete. No, I don't want to go back there either. But the Phils could have put this game out of reach with a few hits in key situations. They should quit blaming Selig and look themselves in the mirror.

Here's an angle no one has mentioned, but it's a significant one. If the game gets postponed til tomorrow, that puts a would-be Game 7 on Friday, which is Halloween. What am I gonna do? Tell my 4-year old that, even though I've been promising for weeks to take him trick-or-treating, we have to wait til next year because Game 7 is on tv? I point this out, not to whine about missing Game 7, but simply because there are millions of other parents who would be in the same predicament. If MLB plays the game on Friday, it's going to lose a huge portion of its normal audience.

Figures, the best ticket in my entire life is becoming more of a hassle than help.

Once we resume play, the Rays play their half inning with the sprinklers on, no?

If I said before the series started how many people would take being up 3-1 and tied 2-2 in the bottom of the 6th in game 5, who would take it?

This isn't a loss at all, they could come out and put up a 5 spot in the bottom of the 6th. Yes the rain sucked, move on, we haven't lost this game yet.

So what are we up to this series, like 70 ABs with RISP in 4½ games? And aisde from Game 4, we're barely scarping out victories? Horrible.

@thephaithful...doesn't say much for the Rays, does it?

bay_area, you should be fine with the trick-or-treating...Game starts at 8:30, you wont be out that late... your kid might be up all night with a sugar-high, but you wont miss much if any of the game.

Kirk, GM-Carson (I think) and I have specifically raised this point, and several others have mentioned it as well.

"So what are we up to this series, like 70 ABs with RISP in 4½ games? And aisde from Game 4, we're barely scarping out victories? Horrible."

Agreed. But who breaks first? Do the Phillie start to hit better with RISP? Or do the Rays start to allow fewer RISP in the first place?

GPG: No it doesn't. I think the Rays are awful. Kazmir sucks. 6 Walks in 4+IP! They should have murdered him.

duff: Note the first 2 words in my handle. The game starts at 5:30 for me.

Weather.com says that at 8 p.m. tonight it will still be raining ... and windy ... and feel like 29 degrees (3 below freezing). They ain't playing tonight, thank goodness. Keep that ice pack on, Cole. We might need you for game 7.

@Kirk: But how bad to "they" want to play tonight?

Weather.com also shows 7-8 at a 50% chance and dropping down to 30% at 9-10.

I've been informed that ESPN is reporting that the game will resume tonight at 8. Can anyone verify this?

Sounds like Philly weather will be brutal for the next two days?

The right way to do this is to play the rest of 5 on Thursday, give the players Friday off for a travel day, and then go Saturday and Sunday with 6 and 7. That way, you get to replay Hamels vs. Kaz on Sunday, both on full rest. I think thats the only way to do it and be fair to both teams. And you skip BAP's halloween problem (which I think is legit!)

JW, you are right on with the PGA TOUR. They don't care what CBS or NBC wants, the Tour dictates their own schedule if there is inclement weather. This is what MLB and NFL get for selling their souls to the networks. Their was no reason not for MLB to start that game at 6:30. Unfortunately greed has taken over these sports. How can Selig throw meterologists and the grounds crew under the bus and deflect the blame? FWIW, the grounds crew saved his ass because they did such a good job and the Rays scored.

Kirk: Sure, it has kept me from attending as many games as I might like (since half my life was lived in California and the other half near Washington, DC) but at least I am not inflicted with the woe-is-me-I'm-from-Philly-and-we-never-win disease.

Its just the reality of Philly sports...deal with it.

Spitz: That is absolutely the sensible way to do this, which means, of course, it won't be done that way.

"Bud Selig" and "sensible" are mutually exclusive.

just heard on WIP, a press release is being drafted by MLB and there is an 80% chance the game will be postponed until at least Wednesday night

I suppose someone's said this already, but if they cannot resume today, that means that they have to reconfigure the whole play-off schedule. Wednesday night for the rest of this game. Game 6 (which we know will not be necessary, of course) would have to be on Thursday OR Friday. With (a completely superfluously scheduled) game 7 on Friday or Saturday. I feel reasonably assured that Fox would prefer the later schedule: Friday and Saturday, because of Saturday normally being tv downtime and because they'd get yet again a Hamels/Kazmir match-up. If we have to go seven (which I know we will not), I'd prefer that match-up, too.

The game is scheduled to resume at 8:29pm ET tonight for the first pitch in the bottom of the 6th inning.

I bat Geoff Jenkins and make them bring in the lefty and then I switch to Bruntlett.

I pitch Madson. I let him go 2 innings unless we need to bring in Romero in the 8th because runners get on.

Most of all, I pray for another rainout. Let's finish Game 5 on Wednesday, Thursday travel day, Friday Game 6 with Myers starting and Saturday Game 7 with Hamels starting on full rest. Screw Selig.

Incidentally, everyone knows that "full rest" for Hamels (4 days) would mean for a Saturday start, right? Sunday would be 5 days off.

There will be no "travel" day if there is rain tonight. Game 6 will be Thursday in St. Pete, Game 7 Friday.

Best option: Phils come out smokin' in the bottom of the 6th and turn the game over to their three-man closing machine: Eyre/Romero, Madson and Lidge. And say G'nite, Rays.

In 2001, game 4 took place on Halloween. That's not a huge issue for east coast Yankees fans, but for the visiting team (Arizona), that's brutal. Kids had to choose between trick-or-treating & watching their local team.

If MLB didn't care enough about the hometown fans of one of the teams in the World Series, I can't imagine they'd worry about out of town fans (or fans of baseball, in general).

CJ - I would not waste Bruntlett that way. If you're gonna bring in a RHB, I'd waste Taguchi. If he gets on it's gravy. But I have a feeling we need to be ready for a long drawn out affair.

I also wonder if we want Madson in what amounts to a 3-inning start. Happ might be better with Madson getting ready.

Fortunately, the Phils know that Price is coming in. They can prepare. Unfortunately, it's Price.

Did it stop raining at any point last night for any length of time?

GPG - define "any length of time."

"The game is scheduled to resume at 8:29pm ET tonight for the first pitch in the bottom of the 6th inning."

CJ where did you hear this?...I heard on WIP it was just about postponed.

I contend that the suspension favors the Phils. When you have two lineups of unequal ability, the better team always suffers the most in bad conditions. The conditions add "noise" or what the statisticians call unreliability. Batters can't see the ball. Routine plays are muffed. The difference in the performance levels of the two teams is greatly reduced by bad conditions, and the Phils' offensive advantage disappears. So, better conditions always favor the better team.

Here's an example. Two pitchers are facing each other. One has excellent control and seldom walks a batter, while the other guy issues 6 walks a game. They are pitching in a hurricane with 90 mph winds. Neither pitcher can get the ball over the plate. Advantage the guy who is always wild. Conditions have equalized the two pitchers. I think the Phils have a better chance to beat the Rays when conditions don't get in the way.

I don't think they will make a decision till 7 or 8 unfortunately..in turn screwing every fan over that has to drive from far away to the game.

David Price. Isn't he the unhittable ace that gave up a homer to The Gnome?

Andy, enough to time to finish the game. Just curious.

GPG - I was up til 1, watching the coverage, and it was raining down there the whole time. It was also raining in Manayunk (yeah, 10 miles NW, but still) past then too.

drove up from DC to Philly for the game last night. man, what a nightmare. the conditions were unbelievably bad - the wind was coming in at bizarre angles, and with the light reflecting off the rain it must have looked like there was a dome up there from the field.

I'm hoping they exhibit some sanity and don't try and squeeze the rest in tonight, after looking at the weather reports. (mostly because I can't make the drive again this afternoon.)

This must be baseball's version of hell freezing over. Here in Lansdale it has been snowing like a bitch for 2 and a half hours and there is nearly 2 inches of snow on the ground. But I hear that nearby there is only rain. Anybody have an eyewitness weather report from South Philly? Personally, I'm hoping for a 4 day delay so Cole can continue pitching.

I drove down 95 last night and it was raining all the way from Philly to DC...

Why is nobody angrier about the fact that the Rays didn't beat Cole Hamels, but the weather did? We lost our ace and the Rays dodged a bullet, because Selig can't figure out how to postpone a damn game.

Bryan: That's the official word from MLB as it sounds now. I heard it reported on ESPN Radio. However, it would not shock me if baseball delays it another day at least.

Ricky Jordan: Because there is nothing we can do about it.

We're tied going to the bottom of the 6th. Get a run there and hold the Rays, and Hamels still gets his win for another great pitching performance.

Somehow lose, and we may still see Hamels in Game 7, should it get there, if the weather causes more substantial delays.

Fox would probably prefer for the game to be played tomorrow, because their highly-rated show "Fringe" is on tonight. Then you'd think they'd just prefer to wait until the weekend for the rest of the series.

I'm not making this up; it's thundering in Lansdale while the snow continues to fall. I would go jump off of the Walt Whitman but I don't think I can make it there.

just got a text the game is tomorrow weather permitting

WIP reporting game is cancelled for tonight. Thank God.

Fringe is actually a rerun tonight. FWIW.

Fringe is a repeat tonight so it should play no part in any conspiracy theories about FOX's programming decisions.

the cuz on wip just said its cancelled tonight.

this is what we get for having mcnabb do the player introductions... blame everything on him.

Game off. Game tomorrow night with snow removal needed?

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