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Monday, September 29, 2008

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JW - Are you trolling for Mets Trools?

The rivalthat matters now is in WI not NY.

For the Muts, is excercising Degaldo's option still the no-brainer that it appeared to be a couple of weeks ago?

@JW -- " While the Phils and Mets can boast a comparable nucleus of home-grown talent, they separate in terms of supporting cast"

So, that DOES mean the worst Phillies players are better than the worst Mets players! :)

For nearly every baseball team, supporting casts matters. That's why its imperative to debate the 25th man on the playoff roster. The 25th man will come up in a big spot in the playoffs whether its on the mound or at the plate or on the basepaths.

But championships are won and lost by the core players. In the end, the Phillies core were better than the Mets core, in particular Rollins-Howard-Utley > Reyes-Delgado-Wright. I'm not sure where I was listening/watching and they were discussing whether the Mets "choked" or were they just not good enough. And the announcers (man i wish i remembered who it was) mentioned Ron Darling had said "maybe the Mets aren't choking, maybe they are overacheivers and NOT really good enough."

Certainly their bullpen isn't. And the back end of their pitching staff fell apart a bit. But this division could have been won by a team that wasn't quite good enough. The Phillies might be that team and for a significat amount of time this year they played that way.

I do know this, right now. The Phillies can play with any team in the National League playoffs. So I'm not too worried about the NLDS or the NLCS (that's a boldface lie by the way).

And for the Mets trolls who have been coming on talking about our "inferiority complex" because we mention the mets in our posts. It has nothing to do with inferiority. If it were the Marlins or Braves who choked their playoff chances on the last day of the year, we'd be talking about them. If the Mets were in last place 30 games back, we'd never even care. Idiots.

Why havent they readjusted the standings to account for all those losses caused by the bullpen? I thought those didn't count.

Here's the thing about CC... since he won't pitch until Game 2 (his 4th straight start on 3 days rest), he won't be able to pitch again until Game 5. That means as long as we take care of business, we won't have to worry about Sabathia's second start of the series.

We couldn't really have asked for a better bad pitching situation for our opponents.

Dave Bush, the 2nd best starter on the Brewers among those who are healthy, was forced to pitch 3 relief innings on the 27th. He could conceivably start Game 1 on three days rest, but he's a guy we've handled pretty well this year.

Manny Parra hasn't started a game since Sept. 13th, and that's when the Phils knocked him out of the rotation putting up 5 runs on 7 hits and 3 walks in just 1.1 innings. He also pitched 2 relief innings on the 27th, meaning he'd be pitching on 3 days rest.

Jeff Suppan has an ERA+ of 87. He's the only regular starter who'd be on regular rest for Game 1. In his last 5 starts, he's 0-3 with an 8.44 ERA and a WHIP of 2.11. That includes a start against the Phils on Sept. 14th where he gave up 6 runs on 8 hits and 4 walks in 3.2 innings.

Finally, there's Yovani Gallardo. He made his first start since May 1st on Sept. 25th and threw 67 pitches in 4 innings before being lifted. It's not clear how much endurance he has right now.

Sabathia sucked in the playoffs last year...he pitched a ton of innings in the 2nd half and didnt have anything left against the Sox.

From last thread:

Lake Fred: I agree that contention is a part of it...usually a big part but Pujols had a historic season.

Strike outs:

Howard: 199
Pujols: 56

Hmm...who would you rather have batting 4th and playing 1B? If you say Howard, you are insane.

From last thread:

Lake Fred: I agree that contention is a part of it...usually a big part but Pujols had a historic season.

Strike outs:

Howard: 199
Pujols: 56

Hmm...who would you rather have batting 4th and playing 1B? If you say Howard, you are insane.

For those of you who entered the lottery for NLCS tickets, I got an e-mail at 9 AM today allowing me to buy 3 tickets for Home Game 2. Woo-hoo! I also got them last year, but hopefully I'll get to use them this year. I also got 3 each for Games 1 and 2 of the NLDS. Must be my lucky year.

Go Phils!

I don't see why we have to say if they choked or overachieved. Maybe they just were what they were...a 2nd or 3rd place team, like we were for a good stretch of seasons up until the last two. They had a magic season in 06, but there have always been teams that have had a fluke year and finished first (see 1993, Phillies).

And, yeah, if the Marlins had stayed a little more competitive longer and been eliminated from the division race on the next to the last day, and the Mets had faded to third, we'd probably be talking more about the Marlins today.

You go to Metsblog and there's lots of hate for the Marlins-I'm guessing they don't really have an inferiority complex about Florida, just a rivalry.

Well I, for one, am disappointed that the Mets didn't make it in. I really wanted the Phils to face the Dodgers in the first round. Not only because I'm in LA and had tickets lined up for the games that the Phils were coming to town, but because I think the Dodgers are a fraud of a team. They got hot the last few weeks of the season to get in, but look who they played: Padres, Giants, Pittsburgh, Rockies. The Brewers have a better rotation and lineup. The only area I think the Dodgers are better in is bullpen, and even that is debatable.

I think the Phils would have been able to handle the Dodgers easily. I have a feeling the Brewers are going to be a little tougher. I see this series going to 5 games.

Plus wouldn't it have been fun to face the Mets in the NLCS? The game threads alone would have been epic.

The Phillies can and have beat every other playoff team in the NL right now. Its simply a matter of performing.

p. Red:

Ummmm... there's no reality in the universe in which the Brewers have a better rotation than the Dodgers.

For Milwaukee, it's Sabathia and your best guess.

For the Dodgers, it's a solid rotation of Lowe, Billingsley, Kuroda and Kershaw.

From what I heard, Kershaw will likely be out of the pen for the Dodgers in the NLDS.

Last year I was content with just making the playoffs, this year I clearly want more. World Series or bust!

EF, that's been my contention all along, that the Phils are just a better team. They've now won the division twice in a row.

I respectfully posed it in question form over on Metblog, and the posters over there ripped me for even raising the question.

They simply can't or don't wan't to believe that the Phillies might actually be a better team.


I posted about this phnenomenon a couple of threads ago,calling their affliction "entitle-itis".

In their own narcissism and self-absorption Met fans, and for that matter NY sports writers, just can't believe they got beaten,

It has to be about THEM. It HAS to be a choke. It's the only way they seem to be able to "rationalize" it.

Pujols had a good year in a lot of categories but didnt carry the team anywhere and didnt lead in any categories.
Howard is the MVP, Pujols would win "most consistent" player if there was a category for it-- that's all. Delgado carried his team further than Pujols did....

That's a shame that there's no playoff baseball is New York this year. It's also a shame that Mets lost their last game at Shea, and the Yankees last game at The Stadium was meanigless. It all makes me so sad.

NEPP: The MVP award doesn't necessarily go to the best player. If it did, Pujols would win easily.

Instead, many voters incorporate all kinds of different measures, including adding relevance to numbers.

Ryan Howard had a September matched by just two players in baseball history and one of those was Babe Ruth in 1927 (I can't remember the other... Tim Kurkjian mentioned it a few times.) And that September carried the Phils to a division crown.

St. Louis finished 4th in their division, 11.5 games out of first. They were 6 1/2 games out of the wild card when September started and never even found themselves in 2nd in the WC standings despite the Brewers slide.

You may not agree... but lots of voters out there think it's important to find a player who not only puts up big numbers, but who does it with the real pressure of a pennant race on his shoulders.

Mike C. -I think that comment was on the Saturday broadcast- Timmy McCarver and our own T-Mac

CJ:

I didn't realize Sheets was injured. With Sheets' injury than it makes it a little more even, I'll give you that. But outside of Billingsley, that rotation is nothing to be afraid of. Kershaw is a rookie that has had a very up-and-down year and Kuroda and Lowe have been solid but nothing spectacular. And like I said, the Brewers lineup is much better.

I've followed the Dodgers closely this year and I feel they are the worst team in the playoffs. My guess is they get swept by the Cubs.

NEPP: You're right. The Dodgers will go like this:

Game 1: Lowe
Game 2: Billingsley
Game 3: Kuroda
Game 4: Lowe on short rest or Maddux

Here are the Phillies records against Playoff teams this year:

Team W L RS RA
LAD 4 4 43 27 .500
MIL 5 1 33 16 .833
CHC 4 3 33 24 .571

We've done a good job against the NL playoff teams and have outscored them 109-67. Of course season series really mean nothing. But it's interesting to note.

The Phillies only played the Angels and the Red Sox. And faired poorly.

American League
Team W L RS RA
LAA 0 3 5 16 .000
BOS 1 2 12 12 .333

Not to bash Howard but how many games did he lose for the team when he was batting .170 the first 3 months? I personally dont feel that one great month should equal an MVP. I agree that being in contention is usually a big part of it but Pujols had a historically good season and should be in the mix and probably should win it.

p. Red: The Dodgers may be the worst team in the playoffs. That's a tough call. But their rotation is far superior to the Brewers.

ERA+'s for LA
Lowe 136
Billingsley 141
Kuroda 119
Kershaw 104

ERA+'s for MIL
Sabathia 262
Bush 104
Parra 99
Suppan 87

Milwaukee's offense did, however, score 50 more runs than the Dodgers this year.

I considered not posting on the Mets at all, but figured we spent a great deal of the season talking about them, why not post something. We've got time until Wednesday. Hence forth, it's Brewers talk.

NEPP: Over Ryan Howard's last 125 games, he put up a line of 274/355/603 for an OPS of 958 with 42 HR and 129 RBI.

The myth is that Ryan Howard had a bad first half. That's wrong. Ryan Howard had a bad first month that put him in a really bad hole. He spent the last 125 games playing like an MVP.

@bubba -- that's right thanks!

BTW, how weird was it, having McCarver doing the play by play in the 9th, so that TMAC could cover the locker room. He wasn't bad, it was just kind of startling, but reminded me of Ashburn when he would do solo play by play back in the day.

McCarver has probably become a parody of his self. But when he first came on the scene, he really was a very capable color analyst, the first to go deep into the stat book for analysis. I can't help but think being mentored by Harry the K and Whitey helped him out.

CJ: Pujols had better 2nd half numbers than Howard...just sayin. The phillies with Pujols are likely a 100+ win team.

pRed - Disagree. Depends on what Lowe and Kuroda do because the Dodgers' pen has the capability to shut down the Cubs completely with return of Saito throwing well.

My bet is the Cubs take the series in 4 games but it is a couple of low-scoring games marked by some good pitching. Dodgers though just won't be able to generate enough runs and don't have the power to play the long ball game.

I personally think Pujols should win the MVP for the reason why Howard won his in 2006. That year they overlooked the fact that the Phillies missed the playoffs, even though we had more wins than the Cardinals. So now that its switched and the Cardinals didn't make the playoffs and the Phillies did, that shouldn't be held against Pujols. He did everything he could to make them even somewhat respectable.

My concern with this Phillies team still revolves around the offense. I know they've hit well lately, but almost all of that success came against bad pitchers. Against even half-way decent pitching, this team has a well-established track record of spectacular haplessness. If you think that's suddenly going to change in the playoffs, dream on. They may be able to get by the Brewers, whose pitching is a mess. But if they face the Cubs, it will be a replay of the Rockies series from last year. The team will hit less than .200 for the entire series. There's not a reason in the world to believe otherwise.

Of course, pretty much every team gets shut down by good pitching -- although the Phillies more so than most, because of the type of lineup they have constructed. Still, they can overcome this problem if their own starting pitching can shut down the opponents as comprehensively as our own offense will be shut down. Unlike last year, we actually have 3 potentially strong starters this year, but Hamels hasn't been as sharp lately & Myers' last 2 starts have been highly alarming. The key is Myers. If he pitches like he did for most of the second half, then we have a 1-2-3 punch that can match up with almost anyone. If he pitches like he did the last 2 outings, we have no chance of getting by the Cubs. With Myers, there seems to be no in-between. He's either great or terrible. He has to be great.

Mike C- Agree with Timmy doing play-by-play.It's funny that Fox does the game so short staffed that one man is left in the booth for the 9th inning.

"Ryan Howard had a bad first month that put him in a really bad hole. He spent the last 125 games playing like an MVP."

Your first point is taken, but he played the last 125 games as Albert Pujols Lite.

Copied from the previous thread in case I wasn't clear whom I think should be the MVP. :)

Being on a contending team is a BS argument for MVP -- it's not in the criteria for selection. It's something for the media to have a story about and to set themselves up as the "experts". Besides, the Cards were in contention until the last week, and they certainly outperformed their expectations.

Howard had 59 more Plate Appearances and made 111 more outs than Pujols. Even if you prorate Howard's PAs down to Pujols, that would be about 90 more outs. NINETY! That means that not only did Pujols contribute something in 90 more plate appearances than Howard but his teammates had about 120+ more appearances to help Pujols (90 + about 1/3 + 1/9 + 1/27 ... additional because the guy behind Pujols didn't make an out in approx. 1/3 of the appearances and the next guy in about 1/3 of his additional PAs, ad naseum). That's a lot of runs.

Howard had a unique year where he hit better with men on, so his overall stats underrate his 2008 value. That said, Howard hit .309/.396/.648 with runners on, while Pujols hit .354/.494/.638. I'd say Pujols was better, as .098 of OBP trumps .010 of SLG any day. I chose runners on rather than RISP because these guys are power hitters.

And then can we talk defense? Howard ELEVATED his defense from g*d-awful (remember the failed pickoffs?) to inconsistent in the last couple of months; by almost any metric and observation, Pujols was a great as he has always been.

And whom would you want running the bases? (Although I contend that Howard is better than conventional wisdom has him, at least once he is in motion).

There should be no contest for first place between Pujols and Howard.

NEPP: Wow... most people generously suggest that ever 10 points of VORP equals one win. That suggests Pujols might be worth 6 more wins than Howard. You really think highly of this Pujols guy apparently.

And, again, you get caught up in this idea that you can simply compare one number to another and that gives you the MVP. It simply does not work that way. It never has and it never will.

I wasn't presenting Howard's numbers to show his were better than Pujols. I was showing you that Howard didn't have 3 bad months. You suggested he batted .170 for 3 months but I'm guessing that was an exaggeration since he was under .200 for 39 of the first 48 games.

Edmundo: What are the criteria for being an MVP?

I seem to recall that the Phils spent a lot of time this year in first place. Yes, the Mets were in first for a while, up as many as three and a half, but without checking stats, I think we were in first a far longer time and by as much as seven or seven and a half at times. Lots of time spent in the media about the Mets choking, or not playing to potential, or whatever, but the truth is that the Phils were the class of the field most of the time this year.

It should not be a suprise or an upset that they took the division.

"I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP," Pujols said in Spanish at a news conference organized by the Dominican Republic's sports ministry.

I agree that Howard wasn't bad, CJ. Pujols was a superior player in almost all aspects of the game for the entire year and even in the 2nd half. He batted .366 with 19HR/66 RBI in the 2nd half. He also is a superior defensive 1B (19 errors for Howard vs. 5 for Pujols). One great month of the season should not equal an MVP. I'm not comparing one number but every aspect of both players.

Howard batted .215 in the first 3 months (just checked the gamelog) and killed numerous rallies with his prodigious strikeouts or groundouts into the shift. If I had to pick which guy I'd want playing 1B in the upcoming playoffs I wouldnt even hesitate to say Pujols.

NEPP, I agree that Pujols is arguably the best, or least in the top two or three, ballplayers of this era. I disagree that he's this year's MVP.

Diehard, in 2006, Howard had a killer season with 58 HRs, 149 RBIs, a 1.084 OPS and a .313 BA. He deserved the MVP then, much more than Pujols deserves it now.

Howard leads both leagues big time in the glamour power numbers of Homers and RBIs. He deserves the MVP.

quick brewers sweep ,mets regroup for next season, repeat 06 regular season

Meh, give Pujols the NL MVP. I'd rather see Howard win the NLCS MVP, or better yet, WS MVP.

Lakefred: Pujols 08 numbers are better than Howard's 06 numbers for the most part...other than HRs/RBIs (which he wasnt exactly a slouch in). For example:

08 OPS (pujols): 1.115
06 OPS (howard): 1.084

OPS + pujols 08: 190
" " howard 06: 167

****Meh, give Pujols the NL MVP. I'd rather see Howard win the NLCS MVP, or better yet, WS MVP****

Exactly. :)

Lake Fred,
In 2006, Pujols hit .331 with 49 HRs, 127 RBIs, and an OPS of 1.102 and his team made the playoffs.

I'm not here to bash Howard, who almost single-handedly won us the NL East title with his amazing September. But Pujols is the MVP. It's a fact that Howard was terrible for the majority of the 2008 season. He wasn't just terrible in April, as some claim. He was also terrible in the first half of May, and all of June and August. He was still hitting under .230 as late as August 29, and that simply isn't possible if the player was only bad in April.

Those early season games counted too and, if Howard had played even semi-competently in those games, we wouldn't have needed a great September to win the division. To be sure, he redeemed himself in a big way by coming up huge when needed most. But, at least by my criteria, the MVP is based on a full season. Baseball already has an award which is more specifically tailored to what Howard did for us this month: it's called the Player of the Month award.

Correction Pujols hit 137 RBIs in 06.

NEPP: You seem confused. I'm not sure there is a single person here arguing that Ryan Howard is a better all around player than Albert Pujols. Ryan Howard is a better HR hitter than Albert Pujols. Pujols is a better player in just about every other aspect of the game.

And yet... the best player in the league often fails to win the MVP award because the things MVP voters incorporate into their votes go well beyond the cold hard numbers you continue to cite.

NEPP: Da Bears

09: Why go back in time only to 'O6?

I'm not sure the Met fans are ready for another excruciating loss at home to end their season.

If you're going to make a wish, we not '86?

CJ and Other Howard for MVP advocates: I take it you all believe that Howard was an undeserving MVP in 2006?

Gotta give credit where it is due. You guys were the better team this year. You stayed healthy, bullpen was consistent, and you got hot at the right time.

As much as I hate the Phils (in a rivalry sort of way), it's not nearly what I feel for the Marlins. At least 3 players on that team need fastballs in the back. Idiots. Cody Ross should get it first.

I think subjective awards (MVP, Gold Glove, etc.) are given way more thought on this site than by the actual voters. It's a popularity contest as much or more than a stats comparison.

CJ: I agree with your assessment on MVP voting.

Here's what I see: Howard will have votes taken away by Lidge. NY media, who is very influential, will give a lot of votes to Lidge because of the simple reasoning that if the Mets had him for the 9th innings this year, they would have won the division by 10 or 11 games.

In the end, Pujols probably will win the award, as it should be, but not necessarily because it was a unanimous vote.

bap: And you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

Ryan Howard had a dreadful first 37 games of the season, and was sitting with an OPS of 608 on May 9th. That was the low point. Something changed after that.

And it wasn't just a good September. From May 10th to Aug. 31st, Ryan Howard's line was 256/339/546 (885 OPS) with 31 HR and 97 RBI in 100 games. That alone certainly wouldn't be worthy of MVP, but the season didn't end on Aug. 31st.

I can respect those who believe Albert Pujols is the MVP. He would disagree ("I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP.") but I can respect that argument.

I also believe a very strong argument can be made for Ryan Howard. You may disagree.

Chris Coste should take his 601 career AB's at the age of 35 and pipe down a bit.

He had 9 HR this year. Imagine he played all of his home games in Williamsport instead of just 81 of them? He would likely have double digits.

****And yet... the best player in the league often fails to win the MVP award because the things MVP voters incorporate into their votes go well beyond the cold hard numbers you continue to cite.****

Numbers aside, who would you rather have batting in an important AB? Pujols or Howard? Numbers merely quantify what we see when we watch the game. The argument that the Phillies made the playoffs because of Howard is BS. You could say that about lots of teams. We likely wouldnt be a playoff team without Utley or Rollins either. Hell you could take away Werth and the Phillies chances of making the post season go way down. Pujols performed at a top level all season and that hurt him as he didnt have a few good months and one great month. He stayed at the same elite level and has been at the level for over 7 seasons now and he gets penalized for being the best player in the game. You swap them out and the Phillies likely win several more games If anyone has a BP subscription, I'd love it if they could post the respective WARP for each player. I'm not bashing Ryno at all...I think he's great and I love having him on the team but I dont think he's the MVP over Pujols...not this season anyway. In 2006 I think he deserved it but not in 2008.

So how much of a slam dunk is it for Rollins to repeat as a gold glover this season? Hell if Omar Vizquel wasnt in the NL, he'd probably have 4 straight after this season instead of 2.

bap: I've never stated that a playoff spot is necessary for an MVP award (those were Albert Pujols' words). I belive a real playoff race in September matters absent some kind of remarkable offensive performance. The Phils were eliminated on Sept. 30th in 2006 in the next-to-last game of the season.

NEPP: he's the best shortstop in the game. bar none!!!

Unfortunately, the BBWAA web site does not post the rules! Not can I find it (easily) on mlb.com. But I copied this from a web article and it matches every other listing I've seen from trusted authors.

The Guidelines for MVP Voting

According to ballot rules, "there is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means." The Baseball Writers' Association of America leaves the decision up to each voter (noting that even pitchers and designated hitters are eligible). The rules have been the same since 1931:

* Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

* Number of games played.

* General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

* Former winners are eligible.

* Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

Note that the word "contender", "playoff" or even one's own fuzzy definition of "valuable" enter into the criteria. Nowhere does it say that a player can't be MVP if he has crappier teammates and and the team didn't quite make a run to the last day of the season.

One other point: Most of the arguements in favor of Howard don't list comparative stats with Pujols (or Berkman, Wright, Reyes or Beltran) and never mention defense.

He's the best defensive SS in the game right now. I'd rather have him on my team that Reyes and his childish showboating crap.

With all the talk about the MVP award I thought it would be worth the time to see what the actual criteria for the award is. From an article by Kevin Acee in the December 2000 Baseball Digest the criteria are:
1. the actual value of the player to the team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. the number of games played.
3. general character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. former winners are eligible.

That's it. And by the way, the two voters from Philly are Jim Salisbury and Bill Conlin. (!)

"I take it you all believe that Howard was an undeserving MVP in 2006?"

I do. Pujols should have won in 2006, regardless of how the teams did in the standings. And he should win this year as well.

Rock the vote- go to www.espn.go.com/mlb and vote Phillies for who you think will represent the NL in the World Series.

NEPP: the notion that Reyes showboats more than any other player in the game is just downright false. Chris Coste claiming to be holier than thou kinda makes me sick.

I've seen Jayson Werth circle the bases with his hand pointed in the air. Matter of fact, he did it in that same series...before Reyes did it. Say what you want about Reyes, most baseball people would rather build their franchise around him rather than Rollins. Sure Rollins is a great player and sure he had an MVP season in 2007....but it was a career year. Will never be matched.

Put him in AT&T Park and see how many homers he hits. But wait, didn't we just see that with Rowand?

GM-Carson: Much like people voting Dallas Cowboys in the NFC Super Bowl vote last year...good luck with that :-)

Are you out of your mind...Reyes acts like a 15 year old boy who just got lucky everytime he gets a hit.

Phils in 2028: Hey, man... the clock struck midnight on Mets trolls some time around when Ryan Church popped up yesterday. Go back under your bridge.

He was probably going to win the Gold Glove anyway, but Saturdays tour de force should have sealed Rollins second straight GG. I think, lost in the shuffle of the eighth and ninth inning plays, is the play he made on the bad hop ball to end the fifth. With a runner on second and two outs the run certainly would have scored had Rollins not made that play. That play left me slack jawed. I have no idea how someones hands can be that quick. And the fact that it was a nationally televised game will help that much more. But I've got to believe he was going to win it again anyway. The guy can seriously pick it. NEPP got it right. If it wasn't for Vizquel (who has been an absolute magician for years) Jimmy would already have a boatload. Now it's his turn.

NEPP: stop acting holier than thou. We turn the other cheek when Pujols gets hits a home run and stands at home plate for 30 seconds. Why? If Reyes was such a showboater, i doubt he would have as many triples as he has every year. People think he styles and shows up the pitcher...you gotta let that go.

But Chris Coste should not talk about anyone. Sure, he kills the Mets...but come on. You don't see Ramon Castro talking smack about the Phillies...do you? When you guys finished 10 games out in '06, did anyone from the Mets call you unworthy? Did they say that about anyone? I hope CC drills him in the back...and he gets stranded on first of course :-)

CJ: how did the Eagles do last night? :-)

Trolls are like cockroaches. Even abject humiliation can't kill them. We don't have to feed them, however.

What's it like to blow a big Sept lead two years in a row?

And Reyes does showboat and everyone in the league knows it.

Yeah, drill him in the back. Hit Cody Ross, too. We lost, so let's hurt someone.

What are you, 5?

All I'm saying is, who in the world is Chris Coste? I mean, does this guy even have the name on the back of his jersey?

Any truth to the rumor that Reyes middle name is Deon?

Pujols added more to his team's win total than any other player in the league. He was astonishingly good this year. Howard had 2 very good months, 2 bad ones, one embarrassingly bad one, and one awesome one. Pujols had two months all season where his OPS was below 1.000 (a .977 and .934). If it was close like it was in '06, then you can award the hot stretch run in a playoff race. But their performances this year aren't close. Pujols should be MVP.

Unlike anyone in NY, Coste will be in a playoff game come Wednesday.

It's funny to read the MeTroll whining about everyone hating the Mets and picking on Coste for pointing it out.

MeTrolls here are the only ones today I hear supporting their team. In NY, it's all about no heart, not clutch, coming up small, etc..

The Mets tell you all year they're better, then they finish 2nd, then tell you that it's disappointing that they didn't win because they have the talent to 'dominate'. Not win, but dominate.

Of course, the over the top celebrations work for us, if they make the Braves, Marlins and Nats of the league play harder against our closest challengers, great.

Jerry: no, but Cody Ross opened his mouth before a series where no pitcher could do anything about it (in that spot, you can't afford to throw at someone and serve them warning) and Chris Coste opens his mouth after the season?

Again, you guys were the better team...not disputing that. However, why not open your mouth before a mid-May series? Why wait til the end of the season? Also, in 2006, we didn't say a word about the Phillies.

Every good team has a showboater or two, but Reyes has a habit of really making the opposing team want to kick his collective teams' a$$. Rollins made the comments earlier this year but wouldn't state specifically of whom he was speaking (LA would on the radio), although Coste just confirmed it. The Marlins, of course, don't care for him from last year's little scuffle. Then again, the Marlins hate everybody.

He tried to tone down the showboating earlier this season, but it affected his play. When he went back to it, he played much better. Reyes is a good player, but not yet that red light player down the stretch that the Mets need. I think he can be that someday.

Who is Chris Coste?

He's a playoff catcher.

Who is Brian Schneider?

EastFallowfield: you're reaching with the over the top celebrations. Every team celebrates. Give me a break already. Don't claim to be holier than thou if you can't substantiate it.

I won't deny that teams dislike the Mets. That generally happens the year after a team blows them all away with a double digit lead from May-September.

doubleh: explain to me how it is Reyes' fault that Miguel Olivo decided to charge him from the mound?

Mike Piazza owned Clemens. Clemens threw at him. Is that Piazza's fault? Should he have gotten out on purpose? I don't care what Reyes said to Olivo, but Olivo coming after him in that game was classless.

Phils in 2028: I hope the Mets like Reyes continue to showboat like they have been. Sure ups the ante at the end of the season when they have to win a series in order to make the playoffs.

You seem fine today... failure must be something you've become used to.

CJ: correction. he's a playoff backup catcher. he sucks and so does schneider. but at least i will admit my guy sucks.

CJ: actually, i looked at the NFL standings today and my team is in first place...not last.

The good thing for you guys is at the end of the week, when your season is over, you'll be able to pick up the Eagles before theirs is officially over.

Reyes is a terrific player.

If other teams do want to beat the Mets more than others, I'd really liketo find out why. As fans, we want to beat the Mets because the fans have developed a terrific rivalry. But what do you think gives other players (Hanley Ramirez, LoDuca, Ross, etc.) extra incentive to beat the Mets? Could it really be something as seemingly benign as those stupid handshakes the Mets do? Or is something else there? Granted, LoDuca and Olsen are jerks, but we already know that.

Phils in 2028: I said the Marlins are headcases, if you read between the lines. Whether or not it was Reyes' fault is not the question here, it's the fact that the Marlins/Olivo took whatever Reyes did and used it as motivation. Reyes is a good player and he often gets carried away in the moment as do other players. I don't think MLB players should have to use celebrating as motivation since they are supposed to be professionals, but as the players are so fond of saying these days "It is what it is." The handshakes and dances p*ss a lot of people off and that's just the facts, stupid as it may be. Personally, I don't care. Win the games and it stops him from dancing, I say.

And Clemens was a nutjob. It was probably the juice, huh?

Phils in 2028: What don't you get? You guys are done. What are you getting out of this? FACT: Reyes showboats.
FACT: Chris Coste did say what every fan knows what the Phils think about the Mets, and as a matter of fact, every team in the NL East thinks of the Mets (you guys bring the hatred upon yourself with Reyes, Tatis' over the top celebrations).
FACT: Your a Met troll, who must not be too upset to be posting here, you must get used to this second place thing by now.
FACT: Your season is over, we have a divisional series to play. We are concerned about our upsoming series with the Brewers, you are concerned with soemthing Chris Coste said on a radio show. Get a grip man, go get ready for spring training.

Mets trolls are awesome!

It's like they stop by to brighten our day. Nothing makes us feel even better about our superior team than to have some troll roll in trying to tell us how bad our 2-time defending NL East champs really are.

Thank you!

Jerry: thanks for being the voice of reason here. I like Paul LoDuca. He is a hard nosed player. But when he has an axe to grind (like this weekend), he says stupid things. Scott Olsen is a jerk and if nobody on this blog realizes that, it's ok. Cody Ross is a nobody, punk who was upset that Pelfrey threw inside at him...so he popped off before this series.

I love this rivalry between the Mets and Phils. I think it is wonderful. I love when the fans get into it during the games, as long as it is good natured ribbing. It's only a ballgame. But the players need to take care of their own business on the field. When someone from another team calls you out like that, you have to strike back somehow. Agreed, Jerry?

doubleh: sorry about that. i agree wiht you about the Marlins. Maybe they are upset they can't get a new stadium?

agree with you about these players. if this isn't motivation to beat up on the marlins, braves, and nats next year...i don't know what is. good luck in the playoffs.

Indiana Sarge: I'm actually getting ready to go 4-0. Big game vs. Seattle coming up this weekend. Should be fun.

JW- I get it now- you needed your Queens Mets Troll fix before settling in for the playoffs.

When players dance and slap and do a 20-minute high five (see Reyes, J and Owens, T), it gives the other team a reason to reach a little deeper and try a little harder. As some football coaches tell their dancing TD-scorers, "Act like you've been there before." Some Mets coach should tell Reyes to grow up. That Marlins team is a feisty bunch that thinks that they belong at the top of the standings. They might be right, and don't need much motivation.

Bubba: Right, it gives trolls like Phils in 2028 one last gasp (get it? choking... gasping...) as they pretend they've moved on to football season. It must really, really hurt for them to stop by here the day after they collapse for the 2nd time in two years.

Phils in 2028: It'd be really awesome if you could inject the phrase "holier than thou" into just one of your posts. Will you do that for me? Get out of here and go get ready for the Knicks season...

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