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Monday, September 22, 2008


that was a huge game what a win!!

The only reason that the Phils won tonight is that they didn't start Feliz against RHP.



Gotta love Metsblog:

Comment by metsfan42793
2008-09-22 21:50:15


Not only that, if they had started Dobbs, they would have won two games tonight.


You can't what?

Great team win started by the Happster and stamped by The Bat.

Life is good.

flipper - you're a weird guy. You want me to post Dobbs' numbers this week? But, wait, you even admit he should start against most RHP. Why do you continue with this? Did clout kick your dog?

flipper: Now, now. I know you're bitter since you look like such a fool for saying Feliz should start every game while Dobbs has been hitting above .400 and won several of the games during this streak, but there's no need to make fun. Dobbs sat only because he was hurt last night. Your hero will be back on the pine vs. RHP as soon as Dobbs is 100%. You're the only one who hasn't figured it our yet.

Cubs now up 9-4

cubs up 5 runs now 9-5

That was the Mets first run allowed since the 5th inning. There's got to be some term for that situation.

oops 9-4

cubs still have bases loaded

Team of destiny:
A different guy every game,
Steps up to the plate.

The Brewers begin a 3-game series with the Pirates only a game and half behind the Mets. Things could get very interesting this week. Imagine the angst if the Mets don't make the playoffs!

They'll be a game back after tonight, no?

Cubs throwing Marmol with a 5 run lead for some reason.

I know you're bitter since you look like such a fool for saying Feliz should start every game

Lol! Pretty funny, clout. Go ahead, find a post where I said that: I'll call you my daddy if you do. And if you can't, just go ahead and admit that you're a flat-out weasel of a liar. K?

OTOH, you did say the other night that starting Feliz over Dobbs would result in a loss rather than a win. So keep ducking clout, keep ducking.

Sophist. Your willingness to jump in and defend clout really is very cute. You guys make a nice little team. But the fact remains, that clout has a hard-on for Dobbs, and a vendetta against Feliz. You know, the kind of hard-on that leads him to make asinine statements like starting Feliz over Dobbs would be the difference between a win and a loss.

Of course, clout also does things like saying Parker's statement that KK has been "bad at times this season" was "idiotic," and regularly insults posters and then puts up some lame-as*ed weasily excuse. And he constantly and obviously deliberately mis-characterizes peoples comments consistently.

So what is it, Sophist? You generally seem like a very level-headed poster. Why do you constantly come to the defense of a weasel like clout?

Sophist - Maybe they just want to win.

Gosh, phlipper, go have a beer, or a bucket of fish. Whatever. Just calm down.

Oh, and Sophist,

If you want to post numbers, why don't you post the Phils' record against RHP when starting Feliz and Dobbs. I actually have no ideas what the numbers are, but given clout's assurances that starting Feliz over Dobbs would make the difference between a loss and a win, surely, they must have a much better record when starting Dobbs against a RHP than starting Feliz.

See, it's strange, because I've asked clout for those numbers numerous times - since they would provide support for his comment - yet he just keep ducking. I wonder if there might be reason for that. Still, strange though, because surely, since there are clearly no drawback to starting Dobbs against RHP, and only drawbacks to starting Feliz against RHP, they must have a much, much better record when Dobbs starts.

flipper - Not trying to defend clout as much as I was trying to find out why you keep making these posts. You've said that you agree with clout's position on the matter. As for the merits: while I'm not one lay the W/L on one guy, clout was right about the last series. Dobbs started every game and the Phils won 2 of them. Not only that, they won them on big hits from Dobbs himself.

You've seemed to develop an obsession with proving clout wrong. It just seems to be your motivation for posting these days (since you don't actually seem to disagree.) I just wonder why.

phlipster: you can do it yourself. b-ref has thast info, but not collated. You'll have to count them up yourself. You can count by splashing on the surface if you want.

flipper - I can do that. It might take awhile, though.

Marmol looking decidedly Heilmanesque.

I hate to be this guy, but, It was a 4 run 8th not 7th inning.

Yup. Wood coming in. The Cubs want to win this one.

Kerry Wood coming in for the Cubs.

C'mon kreider, you enjoyed making that correction. Admit it.

flipper - just so you know, I looked it up: Phils have faced 107 starting RHP including tonight.

Boom. Castillo against Kerry Wood. It wasn't fair, but it was pretty.

I guess they want to win, and also wrap up home field advantage.

Lou is sweet for managing like the game matters (to the Cubs).

Dag, no wonder Castillo is so unpopular with Mess fans. Looks at three straight strikes.

Castillo goes down looking on 3 pitches, Mets lose.

Game Over; Mets Lose. :-)

Castillo just took 3 called strikes to end the game. If Mets didn't want to kill him before...

And that flickering noise you are hearing are Brewer fans hoped being rekindled

For the Mets, it's starting to smell like 2007.

Another sweet night to be a Phillies fan!

kerry wood threw 3 pitches, 3 straight fastballs in castillo's wheelhouse and he didnt swing once.

talk about fuel on the fire of hatred towards him

i gotta go over to see how they are reacting

flipper: I'm beginning to think you're mentally ill. We've been arguing all season about whether Feliz should start against RHP and now you claim that's not your position? You mean you think Dobbs should start vs. RHP as his stats suggest he should and as his performance these last couple weeks say he should? So you and I have agreed all year long on this issue? If so, why have you been arguing?

Castillo had kind of a half swing on the last pitch......

FROM METSBLOG "Gary Cohen pointed out that the Mets haven’t come back to win a game after trailing by three runs yet this season."

PRB - and if they mutts lineup had any heart, they'd be in first place, right?

Please don't tell flipper that I'm probably going to be right and he's going to be wrong about the Phillies making it to the playoffs by winning the division rather than the wild card. His head will explode.

Sophist, I admit that I do like to point out when clout is wrong. Not that it's all that unusual.

I guess it started when clout said that my comments were "idiotic," and then like the weasel he is, tried some lame-assed crap about how he doesn't insult people. The other aspect of why I like proving him wrong is because he constantly mis-represents what people say - as he so illustriously proved on this thread.

Look, if he wants to insult people and lie on a blog, no big deal. I just like to point out when he does.

This is the second time that you said that I've turned into a one-issue poster, or something to that effect. Actually, it isn't true - I've posted on plenty other issues. But when clout makes comments about his hard-on for Dobbs or his vendetta against Feliz,and I read it - I generally do comment. And since he makes comments to that effect on virtually every thread, I do make quite a few comments in response on that issue.

Do dolphin brains float?

Actually, it shouldn't take long. says that the Phils are 24-22 in Dobbs' starts this year. He's started 3 games in positions other than 3B and in those starts the Phils are 3-0. Assuming he only starts against RHP (likely) the Phils are 21-22 in his starts at 3B.

Gotta admit, clout. Once again, pretty funny. Not only lie, but attribute other people's arguments to me. You're a weasel and a liar, but you are consistently a weasel and a liar.

Sophist did you count his starts as DH? He only started 41 games at 3B. I got 21 - 20.

They're 7 - 6 in games that Bruntlett started, so he must be better than average, right?

flipper: Well, if you think I'm lying, tell us your position then with regard to Feliz. You've been arguing with me all season about why he should start vs. RHP. Do you now agree with me? You can admit you were wrong and chnage your mind. Jack shared your view early in the season and he saw the light.

flipper - I was just pulling your leg. That one issue posting was over the same issue. You seem to only post these days re: this issue and clout. I'll stop, since I don't seem to be helping matters. Just trying to get passed this, since I think you guys actually agree at this point. clout does love his misrepresentations, but I think this whole matter with Dobbs starting and winnings 2/3 prediction was just a way to make a prediction with some rhetorical flourish.

sophist: I doubt flipper is so dumb that he attributes win-loss records to an individual position player. My reasoning on predicting the Phillies would win if Dobbs started was based solely on the HUGE OPS difference between Feliz and Dobbs vs. RHP. I thought the extra offense could make a difference and events proved me right.

Thanks for the stats, Sophist. I guess that the Phils have a much higher winning % when staring Feliz against RHP than when they start Dobbs? So, despite the small sample size, my position stands exactly where it has been all along. I've got no problem with Dobbs starting some of the times against RHP, but (in no particular order):

1) It won't likely make the difference between a win and a loss, as clout claims.

2) There are probably downsides to starting him too much.

3) There are downsides to starting him that mitigate against the fact that he's a better hitter than Feliz: that he's weaker on defense and you'll lose ability to be a valuable pinch hitter.

4) Clout fails to recognize those mitigating factors in his post after post professing his love for Dobbs and hatred for Feliz.

5) Clout is a liar.

6) Clout is a weasel.

Op, you're right, Andy. I skipped the DH thinking they said PH. I can't believe we're having our own "Mets lose when Castillo starts thing." The W/L record isn't what this is about (though clout did - I guess unfortunately at this point - put his prediction in those terms.)

It's besides the point since we're all bright enough to know more goes into winning then some dude.

Bottom line: before tonight, Dobbs is

.300/.317/.625 in his last 41 PA.

That's 17 games, 11 starts.

I can't believe I made a typo in my sentence about how smart we all are.

clout - It's true, and I said as much. Funny that flipper is doing some of his own misrepresentation here.

flipper: OK, now I'm confused. You said I lied when I described your position as wanting to start Feliz against RHP. Then you post a list of reasons about why feliz should start vs. RHP, which has been your position all season long.

clout - and the "it's" in the "it's true" is your prediction.

sophist: Those offensive numbers go even higher if you just look at his 11 starts.

What did I misrepresent, Sophist? Clout specifically said that the difference between Feliz and Dobbs starting would equate to the difference between a win and a loss.

Ok, that's it. This really is an even more inane argument than most internet arguments.

I'm out. See you on the next thread (no doubt, when clout reveals his hard on for Dobbs).

Honestly, flipper, if we knew more about defense - 3B defense in particular - it would be much easier to show why you want to start Dobbs against every RHP. 107 games, and you'd rather start a guy batting .235/.284/.361 against RHP than a guy batting .305/.336/.502.

flipper: I apologize. I'd assumed you were an adult, but I realize now you're a teenager or younger. I'll cut you some slack in the future. Sorry.

To change the subject, MLB moved Saturday's game against the Nationals to 3:55 pm, meaning that no one outside of Philadelphia or DC will be able to see it (the rest of the country will likely get Red Sox/Yankees or Cubs/Brewers). This makes no sense at all.

flipper - you made clout's statement about a single series into a statement about the entire season.

Again, I don't think this is going anywhere considering we don't have adequate defensive numbers.

For heavens sake, lets bring back Nunez for 3b next year. At least it would end the 9 month debate on Feliz/Dobbs.

Stark should also write an article about comeback wins after the 6th inning. See how the Mutts score on that one.

If the Mutts miss the playoffs this year, at least they didn't do it in one fell swoop like last September, they spread it out by choking 29 blown saves over the course of the season. I suppose they wanted to be nicer to their fans this year.

AFish - How dare you.

Bummer. Online radio it is. Just an excuse to listen to LA. Hopefully the East is wrapped up by then.

ESPN gives the Phils a 95.1% chance of winning the division.

Mets a 60.7% chance of the WC.

AFish: Here's hoping the game means nothing!

And the Flyers seemed to play well tonight.

11 days ago we were 4 back in the Wild Card and 2.5 back in the division.
Now we are 2.5 up in the division and 3.5 up in the Wild Card.

What an unbelievable turn of events and a testament to the character and make-up of this team.

AFish - MLB pushed Phils-Nats up to 4pm because FOX picked to broadcast it. I'm just glad this switch didn't happen on a day Hamels was pitching; if a playoff spot was on the line, and the situation were such that if the Phils win, the Mets (NY Media Market) don't get in, and if the Phillies lose, the Mets get in, I would have blown a fuse and demanded an investigation into collusion/conspiracy.

I can't remember a team beating us like this.

-- Chipper Jones

Mets'll win tomorrow. Hamels can go 9 against this team.

I did think the game was in doubt when I left work but Machine came through with yet another timely HR. Machine has largely been pretty broke at the plate the last 7 weeks or so but man his HRs this month have been really key. I would bet that each of them has either put the Phils ahead outright or give them a little margin for error in a tight game.

With Hamels going against Reyes tomorrow, they have to keep their foot on the Mutts' throat and hope the Cubs' lineup can tack a few on Santana, or at least work him deep into the count. Take care of business.

MIke -All the Phils need to do is win tomorrow, and with Hamels they should. Magic number would be 3 (at the highest) with 4 to go.

These have been great games to watch. Enjoyed the "small ball" when Ruiz hit the chopper to second and Vic scored. True, the second baseman bobbled the ball, but you can't tell me that in July, Ruiz wouldn't have hit a popup. And Golson flashing some speed. The little things are coming together, they are getting the bounces, and they are taking advantage seemingly every time they get an opportunity to put pressure on the other team.

Again, I know it's just the Braves and the Fish, but you can't tell me that in July they wouldn't have found a way to lose a few of these games.

And, importantly I think, they look like they are having fun again.

Dee Linam (sp?) was on after the game. An unnamed veteran Braves player apparently was quoted as saying they've played the Mets and Phils all year and that there was really no comparison between the Phils and the Mets, the Phils were so far superior as a team to the Mets. Chipper?

Hilarity on MetsBlog- They are saying that the team needs to trade for Aaron Rowand and David Eckstein. This would give their team the "guts" the Phillies have. Wow.

burrells curtain call was nice

This thread has been fantastic. Why did Phlipper have to leave?

I don't usually do this, but this one is too hard to pass up:

Comment by MLBfan 2008-09-22 22:18:27

what happened to the magic number that was on this website?

Log in to Reply

Comment by The Slider 2008-09-22 22:19:57

It was too magical.

Any chance Golson can be on the playoff roster - we need his speed!

T Mac- His contract was purchased 8/31 along with Marson, so he's in.

Another great win down the stretch for the phils.

#1 subject on beerleaguer - Dobbs vs Feliz

I love beerleaguer

It's not supposed to be like this. This isn't stressful. I feel like a Cardinals fan or something. What the hell is this? Fire Manuel and Gillick! They must be practicing witchcraft!

It's official:

The Metsblog Suicide Watch Hotline is in full swing.

Despondent Mets fans are urged to call:

1 (932) 356-7377.

It'd be funny if the Mets collapsed again, but we'd be better off with the Brewers out of the playoffs.

As long as we're having stupid arguments with clout, didn't you predict that we would not only fail to win the wild card, but not have the wins to do it? That doesn't look to be the case.

phlipper: You can't just look at the team's record when Feliz plays third base as opposed to when Dobbs plays. There are about 8 zillion confounding reasons why the team might have a better record when it starts Feliz against right-handers than it does when it starts Dobbs.

The Phillies have a .667 winning pct. when Joe Blanton starts this year. They only have a .593 winning ptc. when Hamels starts. Does this mean Blanton is better than Hamels? By your logic, yes.

An example of one of the 8 zillion confounding factors. One of Cholly's credos is that, when Moyer starts, Feliz must start at third base. The Phillies have a .645 winning pct. when Moyer starts. What do you think is the main reason for that high winning pct.? Is it because Feliz is in all these games, or would it have more to do with Moyer?

Few points:

- Eyre has really been a nice pick up by Gillick. Guess it is better that Gillick realized the Phils needed a situational lefty in the pen even it was nearly two years later (still remember him insisting like a fool that the Phils didn't need one during spring training in 2007 and early that season after Smith flopped).

My bet is that Eyre is going to come through at least once in a big spot in the playoffs.

- It is time to bury the Tomahawk Chop as the Braves are on their way to losing 90+ games (the most since their run began way back in 1991).

Braves did have some real tough injury breaks this year but if they depending upon Smoltz to give them 30+ starts and Larry to play in 150+ games, the Braves' front office and coaching staff were fooling themselves.

Coupled with the Braves inability to outspend the Mets or Phils, it is going from tough for them to rapidly rebuild by acquiring a big-name FA too.

- That lack of an off day is looming ominously over the Mets' season right due to the crummy start by Niese tonight and the losing streak. Instead there is no rest for the weary and they have to hope that Santana can deliver a dominant outing tomorrow.

Go Phils.

Mets are officially at "Yellow Alert" and if they lose Santana's start I think it is full out "Red Alert"

The Phils bats have a tendency to take the night off when Cole is pitching. Hope tomorrow they pound the Braves early and often.

Things are lookin' mighty good for the Phils. Magic # 4 to Division title, 3 for Wildcard! Kudos to Happ, Pat the Bat and the bullpen! Go Phillies!

Everyone said you can't expect the Phils to make up 7 games in the standings in 17 games again.

Just made up 6 games in 11 games.

Today's games: Cole Hamels (Phils) vs. Jo-Jo Reyes (Braves), Johan Santana (Mets) vs. Sean Marshall (Cubs), and Jeff Karstens (Buccos) vs. David Bush (Brewers).

#5 belted a 3-run shot into the night sending the Phillies fans into a frenzy assuring a win and inching closer to a playoff spot. Pat Burrell had been slumping mightily, but that homerun gave the rundown relief crew a bit of breathing room and allowed Brad Lidge to chill in the bullpen with his jacket on just happy the game was secure.

Amazing number of Cubs fans at Shea last night. It's almost like the Mets aren't even in a playoff race. Cheers on Marquis slam pretty even, maybe a little louder, with the boos from the Mets 'faithful'.

****They only have a .593 winning ptc. when Hamels starts. Does this mean Blanton is better than Hamels? By your logic, yes.****

YES! Bulldog is the best pitcher on the team...Hamels be damned!

And Kendrick with his .600+ career winning pct is a 1st Ballot HoF.

Interesting piece by Rich Hoffman in today's DN, comparing the similarities in the success of late season callups Bystom (1980) and Happ. Dallas Green says Marty was terrific going 5-0 and starting two playoff games and a world series game. Phillies woudln't have won the division, much less the WS, without him. But he quickly flamed out in the strike-plagued 1981 season, when he got out of shape and tried to make up for lost time too quickly.

Big D says he's hoping Happ has a much better career, and I'm thinking he will. Arm problems plagued Bystrom the next season and the rest of his career.

Hoffman didn't touch on it in the article, but I think Bystrom, being much younger than Happ, threw way too many innings in 1980. He now lives in the Reading area where he is a regular Joe. Still, Bystrom will forever be remembered fondly for his invaluable contribution to the greatest moment in Phillies history.

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