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Tuesday, September 23, 2008

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Did anyone ever uncover the reason Donald wasn't a September call-up? Was it the addition of Tad? I mean, I shouldn't be. I think the Phils are still carrying Cervenak.

Here's my theory. You don't bring up a hot shot shortstop prospect at a time when Jimmy Rollins really hasn't had the best season. My feeling is that it's a chemistry thing. But again, look how much Marson and Golson are being used. Cholly wouldn't use him anyway.

Do the Honolulu Sharks need a bat boy? I can throw BP too.

Jason Donald needs to learn how to play 3rd base. The Phillies are fools if they don't find out if he can.

Anybody know if Happ is eligible for post season (God willing we make it!)

Unless someone gets injured, Happ is ineligible.

Thanks JW- I saw he was called up Sept. 1 but I didn't remember if that was just i n time for the deadline or a day too late.

Maybe the Phillies didn't bring Donald up because they plan to move him to 3B? Could this be what the work as a "utility player" really means? If Donald can play 3B then I could see him on the big league team next year as more than just a Sept. call-up.

JW - I think Adam Eaton just pulled his brain...or strained his kidneys...or something.

In re: Celebration Beer

I personally tend to go for one of the Chimay Ales. Good alcohol content, big bottle and you get to pop a cork.

Another possibility of the Jason Donald thing is that theye did not feel that he would actually be able to contribute and did not want to take away one year of eligibility (along with the future salary implications) at this time.

Andy: Monk's on 16th Street has Chimay on tap (one of the few places in the U.S.) and awesome mussels. The Belgian lambics also come in nice big bottles with corks, but are quite sweet.

Whoever mentioned Brooklyn Pennant Ales was right on. Also, since I live in the New England area, I spent the postseason chase last year drinking Geary's (a NH brewery), in honor of the now-departed Geoff.

MPN - Chimay with mussels would be very, very good.

Happ can replace Gordon (60 day DL) on the playoff roster as both are pitchers.

MPN- Speaking of Monk's in Center City, a buddy of mine says he was drinking with Burrell there on Sunday night.

If people are on the Main Line, you can get Chimay with Mussels at Teresa's Next Door, a bar/restaurant in Wayne.

There are two things I can't stand hearing people talk about: their fantasy teams and their favorite beer.

Fortunately the fantasy talk is kept to a bare minimum on here.

And at least all this beer talk is for a good cause, so I'll let it slide.

Just remember, whatever beer you choose, it is going to taste incredible as long as the Phils keep rolling!

Go Phillies! (The real Phillies, not so clown's fantasy Phillies)

Bringing up Donald and using him in the place of Bruntlett (who has stunk offensively for the past 3 months) would have made sense on a rational team but you are of assuming that:

1. Economics primarily dictate the Phils' decisions with players particularly around the issue of eligibility and arbitration. This is nothing new.

2. Cholly's utter refusal to play younger players even if they present a more viable option than a trusted vet.

Wes: agreed. Listening to people talk about beer is like listening to people talk about wine. Although Sideways is a fantastic movie, so maybe it's not too bad.

Happ can actually replace any of three Phillies pitchers currently on the 60-day DL: Gordon, Rosario or Mathieson.

Here are the players eligible for the postseason roster:

Pitchers: Blanton, Condrey, Durbin, Eyre, Hamels, Kendrick, Lidge, Madson, Moyer, Myers, Romero, Seanez, Gordon (60-day), Mathieson (60-day), Rosario (60-day), Zagurski (60-day)

Position players: Coste, Ruiz, Bruntlett, Dobbs, Feliz, Howard, Rollins, Utley, Burrell, Jenkins, Stairs, Taguchi, Victorino, Werth

This is the OFFICIAL list, as determined by the smart commentors collectively at Beerleaguer. Up to four pitchers not on this list could be added to the postseason roster due to the pitchers on the 60-day DL, but any position player not on this list could only be added if an injury is invented for someone already on the list.

so Golson is not available? I thought he made the cutoff date.

TK: As far as I (and a couple fellow BLers who helped me), Golson is not available.

As far as I undestand the playoff roster rules, Golson would be available because he was brought up on the 31st, right before the deadline. However, playoff rosters go back to 25 players, down from the September 40. So to put Golson on the roster, you would probably leave Taguchi off the roster.

I would be fine with doing that, but I have a feeling that Charlie and whoever else is in on the decision making process will probably go with Taguchi's experience over Golson's speed and raw talent.

From what I can tell... although Golson's, Marson's and Happ's call ups were announced on Aug. 31st, none of them joined the roster until Sept. 1st. Golson and Marson were added to the 40 man roster when Gordon and Rosario were transferred to the 60-day DL on the 31st, but did not join the active roster until rosters were expanded.

There was some dispute about the call-up date. The article for the call-up of Happ, Golson, and Marson is posted as Aug 31st, but in it, I believe, they're said to be September call-ups.

In his chat today, Joe Sheehan said that the team that matches up best with the Cubs is the Phils: power from the left side and speed.

Wes Chamberlain: That's not correct, as far as I can tell. Golson was NOT on the 25-man roster as of Aug. 31st. He was merely added to the 40-man roster. He joined the team for their Sept. 1st game after rosters expanded.

Part of the confusion on the Phils' callups is that we played a day game on Aug. 31st and the moves were announced following the game.

In order for Golson to be added to the playoff roster, he would have had to have been on the 25-man roster on Aug. 31st. If that was the case, who did the Phils drop from the 25 man roster that day? No one.

Golson was a Sept. call up. Don't be fooled by the Aug. 31st date on the roster move.

MG: Donald couldn't have replaced Bruntlett because Donald has played only one position in his entire minor league career: SS. I do like the idea of him playing other positions. He's got the arm to play 3B, lacks the range to play SS, which is why utility is probably his best path to The Show. The footwork at 2B can be tricky so he'd have to be worked out there to see if he can handle it. Even if he can play those spots, my guess is he'll end up just average with the glove and be a more offense-oriented utility guy.

Ok, I just emailed Bill Conlin (he is great at getting back to his readers) on this...

"Golson won't be available unless they can find somebody to break Iguchi's legs. . .Not sure about Happ."

Clout - That was my point. Basically Bruntlett has basically been reduced to very limited playing time the past month including a pretty limited number of PH appearances, some pinch running, and serving as the primary defensive substitution for Burrell late in games (still one of the dumbest moves that Cholly makes with Jenkins and Golson available).

I think Conlin meant So Taguchi, not Iguchi, as Tad isn't available no matter what.

Not that Golson brings a ton to the table offesnively but given the Phils may go into the playoffs with Taguchi on the roster, I could see the reason why people would be concenred if Golson is eligible to take his spot.

You guys are all wrong on the playoff roster. Anyone in the organization on 8/31 is eligible, because players on the 60-day dl can be replaced with anyone in the organization, and there is no longer a requirement that pitchers can only be replaced with pitchers. Golson, Happ, and anyone else in the organization on 8/31 can be on the postseason roster.

Taguchi has been suffering from PTSD (Post Traumatic Sitting Disorder) since late August and is unable to leave the bench and play.

Here is a link stating what I just wrote -- a pitcher on the 60-day dl can be replaced with a position player.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/09/postseason_elig.html

Or, rather, I'll let Red Sox director of baseball operations Brian O'Halloran explain.

"The position-player-for-position-player / pitcher-for-pitcher requirement is indeed now gone for substitutions prior to a series," O'Halloran wrote in an e-mail. "However, teams now are allowed to substitute for an injured player during a series. Such in-series substitutions are position-player-for-position-player / pitcher-for-pitcher, and the injured player cannot be active for the remainder of that series or the next series. Those substitutions also require MLB approval.

"The way substitutions (before a series) work in general is as follows: each team's initial pool of eligible players is the 25 players on its active roster at midnight on 8/31 plus any players on the 15-day DL, 60-day DL, suspended list, bereavement list, etc. So we have 28 players in this pool (25 plus Donnelly, Clement, and Mirabelli, all of whom were on the DL on 8/31). Any player in a team's pool who is injured when a given series begins can be substituted for. So if Mirabelli is healthy at that time he will not be eligible to be substituted for, as an example. But if any player of the 28 eligible guys is hurt at the beginning of a series, we could substitute for him. For example, with Donnelly being out for the year, we can substitute any player who was in our organization on Aug. 31 for Brendan. This substitute could be a pitcher or position player, and does not necessarily have to have been a September callup."

If we could get Golson on the team (which we can't), I'd take him over Jenkins and/or Taguchi. Golson shouldn't touch the batter's box unless sliding through it, but his baserunning alone would present more value than Jenkins or Taguchi can provide, as neither of them should nor will actually play.

AFish is somewhat correct. The rule is appparently that the playoff roster can include anyone on the 25-man roster or the DL as of August 31st. The only exception is that anyone placed on the 60-day DL can be replaced on the playoff roster by someone else who does not meet these qualifications. You can make changes among eligible players in between each series. Therefore, your playoff roster will basically be what the 25-man roster has been all year, but you could replace Gordon, Mathieson or Rosario with anyone in the organization. This is what the Rays will be doing with David Price.

AFish - How is that different from what CJ posted? Anyone on 25-man of DL as of 8/31 with the exception that players from that set may be substituted for, if still injured, by any player in the org..

The team can take Jenkins, Stairs and Golson. They could take Taguchi, too, if they decide to only take 6 relief pitchers (which is what they did last year). Here is one potential roster:

Hamels
Myers
Moyer
Blanton
Lidge
Madson
Durbin
Eyre
Romero
Condrey
Howard
Utley
Rollins
Dobbs
Feliz
Bruntlett
Ruiz
Coste
Burrell
Victorino
Werth
Jenkins
Stairs
Golson
Taguchi

I might take Seanez rather than Taguchi.

Ok, so AFish is basically all correct. It was just misleading to say "anyone in the organization is eligible". Anyone is eligible as a replacement for someone on the 60-day DL. Therefore, if we wanted, Golson could replace Taguchi on the roster by taking Gordon, Mathieson, or Rosario's spot. This probably will not happen however.

@Sophist: CJ said Golson isn't eligible, apparently because he believed that pitchers on the 60-day dl could only be replaced by other pitchers. That is incorrect, and Golson is eligible.

Who would people take if this was the final decision: Seanez or Condrey?

Well then Bill Conlin is wrong. He should retire.

Definitely Condrey over Seanez. The question is whether they'll take both.

Sounds like we can use Golson. In which case, I would. Also, I would definetly take Seanez as well.
Hamels/Myers/Moyer/Blanton/ Lidge/Madson/Romero/Eyre/Seanez/Condrey

Rollins/Utz/Werth/Howard/Burrell/Vic/Dobbs/Ruiz
Feliz/Coste/Stairs/Bruntlett/Golson

Happ or Jenkins is a toss up. It's more likely we use the extra bat I would guess.

Jack: Under your hypothetical that it's one or the other, I'd go with Condrey. Better bet in multiple innings and more consistency in back to back days. (although I haven't done a Sophist-style stat check on whether my impressions are accurate).

AFish: What you posted is the only thing I've found suggesting the position for position and pitcher for pitcher restriction has been eliminated. If that's the case, then the Phils have 4 flexible roster spots available for anyone within the organization on Aug. 31st.

Brian, no Chad Durbin?

AWH: Ah, good catch. I felt like I was missing someone. Ironic considering I "think he is more valuable than Lidge". But yeah, he's definitely in. And if that's the case I don't know that Seanez is necessary, but would still probably keep him over Jenkins and Happ.

@CJ: Zolecki confirmed on his blog that position players can replace pitchers on the 60-day dl, so Golson is eligible.

"I've been told that 'any player who was on the disabled list at the time the Phillies submitted their rosters on August 31 can be replaced by any player in their organization on that date.' Therefore, Golson would be eligible."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Making_Their_Own_Breaks.html

AFish: Thanks!

Actually I just forgot to type his name, my numbers are still good. So my final answer is Jenkins over Happ.
And...

Hamels/Myers/Moyer/Blanton/ Lidge/Madson/Durbin/Romero/Eyre/Seanez/Condrey
Rollins/Utz/Werth/Howard/Burrell/Vic/Dobbs/Ruiz
Feliz/Coste/Stairs/Bruntlett/Golson/Jenkins

Here are the players eligible for the postseason roster:

Pitchers: Blanton, Condrey, Durbin, Eyre, Hamels, Kendrick, Lidge, Madson, Moyer, Myers, Romero, Seanez, Gordon (60-day), Mathieson (60-day), Rosario (60-day), Zagurski (60-day)

Position players: Coste, Ruiz, Bruntlett, Dobbs, Feliz, Howard, Rollins, Utley, Burrell, Jenkins, Stairs, Taguchi, Victorino, Werth

This is the OFFICIAL list, as determined by the smart commentors collectively at Beerleaguer. Up to four players not on this list could be added to the postseason roster due to the players on the 60-day DL, as long as those players were part of the organization on Aug. 31st (i.e. Happ and Golson are both eligible by that measure).

My postseason roster:

Starters: Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton
Relievers: Lidge, Romero, Madson, Durbin, Condrey, Eyre, Seanez

Lineup: Rollins, Utley, Werth, Howard, Burrell, Victorino, Feliz, Ruiz

Bench: Coste, Dobbs, Stairs, Bruntlett, Jenkins, Golson

I originally had Happ over Seanez, but I agree with clout... Happ will only get added if he's needed to replace an injured starter. Seanez has a better track record out of the bullpen. I also think we'll stick to just an 11 man staff and take the extra bat off the bench. That extra bat should be Golson instead of Taguchi.

Mets dodge Soto and Ramirez in the Cubs lineup today.

I wonder what they will do with the players who could be the next man up on the roster, i.e. Happ, potentially Golson, and Marson. Do they stay with the team, or do they depart and stay on call for the rest of the playoffs?

B-Mac: Good point. Happ and Marson will have to stay nearby just in case a pitcher or catcher gets injured. Golson, I believe, will be added to the roster. Taguchi will likely stick around, just in case a bench player goes down.

Phils just gotta win and take care of business; can't worry about what the other teams are doing. You have to think the Mets will win with Santana going tonight against Marshall and without Soto or Ramirez in the Cubs' lineup.

I will say that if the Mets do lose tonight, things don't look good for them to make the playoffs. If they win tonight and the Brewers lose, I think they will make it in.

@B-Mac: Last year, the Phillies kept Eaton and Roberson with the team for the playoffs in case of injury.

One thing to consider in this Condrey or Seanez debate is that, while Condrey has better earned run numbers than Seanez (their inherited runners numbers are similar as rates, though Condrey has had twice as many inherited runners), their batted ball numbers are better for Seanez.

Seanez: .245/.350/.348 (185 PA)
Condrey: .304/.352/.447 (294 PA)

LHB crush Condrey: .322/.369/.455.

There's also the following: Leverage

Seanez

High: 30 PA -- .160/.276/.240
Medium: 28 PA
Low: 127 PA -- .208/.331/.264

Condrey

High: 25 PA -- .348/.400/.652
Medium: 46 PA
Low: 223 PA -- .308/.351/.428

These are small samples for the High Leverages.

Sophist: I'm not sure it comes down to either/or. Are you suggesting someone makes the roster in their place? Happ?

Golson really helped us with his speed last night, but I think people are getting a little carried away when they want to add him to the playoff roster over Jenkins. Do you really want Greg Golson coming up to pinch hit in the 11th inning of Game 7 of the NLCS?

bap: I have both Golson and Jenkins on my roster. I leave off Taguchi. Is there someone I'm missing?

Lineup: Rollins, Utley, Werth, Howard, Burrell, Victorino, Feliz, Ruiz

Bench: Coste, Dobbs, Stairs, Bruntlett, Jenkins, Golson

Lineups are posted... standard for the Phils with Utley second and Feliz seventh vs. the lefty. Of course, lefties actually hit Hampton at a clip of .327 vs. 282 for RHB, so maybe it should have been Dobbs! ;-)

bap: Fair point. But I counter.. do you really want Geoff Jenkins coming up to pinch hit in the 11th inning of Game 7 of the NLCS.

Last year, the Phillies only had 6 relief pitchers on their postseason roster: Myers, Gordon, Romero, Alfonseca, Condrey and Mesa. They kept Barajas as a third catcher.

If they only carry 6 relief pitchers this year, they could keep Jenkins, Golson and Taguchi on the roster. I'd probably take seven relief pitchers and leave Taguchi off the roster. It is possible that the team will value Taguchi's playoff experience over Golson's speed, but that seems like it would be a mistake.

AFish: I agree on Taguchi vs. Golson. However, if they feel comfortable with just six relievers (because, will Condrey will pitch in the playoffs when it matters), then keeping an extra bat is not a bad idea at all.

Brian G: That was funny. I don't actually LOL very often when reading BL. But I did there.

CJ - I'm not sure it is either, but the question was posed.

Brian: Well, no. But if given the choice, I'd certainly prefer Jenkins. Or even Taguchi, for that matter.

Game thread is up...

The comments to this entry are closed.

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