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Wednesday, September 24, 2008


Today we are in first place - hopefully close to the playoffs- I'll take an optimistic outlook for today.
Let's see what the post season brings & we will see what the off season brings- but today let's win one game.

Couldn't have said it better. Ok i got it out of my system arguing with the mets fans banter for the day. I am in game mode now.

Tonight is the game boys. Tonight is key to this puzzle fitting together. I have been on my best behavior today to try to not reverse the good karma for tonight. We NEED this one!

One pitch at a time, one game at a time. That's all they can do. Hopefully, they win one tonight and keep the pace.

Let's Go, Phils!

"Today" has been making me nervous for at least two weeks now.

Jack: "There is NO reason, absolutely none, why you can't build a competitive, winning, long-term succesful team for a payroll around 100 million."

That is abolsutely true, but you pretty much have to bat close to 1.000 with your personnel moves to do it. The easier way is to have a payroll of $150M+ as the Red Sox, Angels, Cubs and other big market teams do so that you can get the same results without having to be near perfect in your personnel judgments. Make a mistake and you can fix it because you have the dough.

You guys have been the beneficiaries of so much ridiculously good luck over the last two years, you really need to stop with this Woe Is Philly stuff. Go spend some money in an off-season. You sell enough tickets for pete's sake. Just stop whining, you too Weitzel.


Anyone see Hank Steinbrenner's comments? He's now blaming the divisional system of baseball. He thinks it should just be a 30 team league where everyone plays everyone and whoever has the most wins plays for the Series - speaking that Yanks have a better record than Joe Torre's Dodgers.

I have a feeling if the Yanks were in 4th, that he'd beg for the playoffs to be extended to 16 teams, or if they were last, a bracket style tournament.

Phils R Bad: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but your posts are consistently the dumbest and least baseball-knowlegeable of any of the Mets fans who post here. Why don't you try to educate yourself before coming back and wasting Jason's bandwidth?

What do they put in the water in NY??? Both teams have a habit of trying to make rules/excuses up as they go. If Ayala goes 5/5 in saves the res tof the way all of a sudden they will say their bullpen is solid enough to go.

Also a mets note, they are going to pitch maine out of the bullpen when his arm isn't full healed. They ruin EVERY pitcher. Santana threw 125 last night and 116 the start before i believe.

They are trying to get KRod next yr whose velocity has declined over the past 2 years already. Next yr if they get him and he stinks they will be whining about that too.

Careful, clout. People will assume we're the same person again.

Clout, you nailed it. You spend $150 million and miss on a third and you've got $100 million team. You become cheap and dumb, like a team we root for, and you only spend $100 million, miss on third, and you've got a team worth $67 million losing to the Red Sox et al.

Now using that argument, why did Omar get a contract extension? He spends more than the Phillies and is not nearly as efficient. Is it Gillick's Value Village approach to filling in the misssing pieces that is the difference?

I'm out. Let's Go Mets.

"You guys have been the beneficiaries of so much ridiculously good luck over the last two years..."

Of what "luck" do you speak? I would say the opposite, but that would be whining and that ain't my style.

clout: I don't think you quite have to bat 1.000, just avoid REALLY dumb moves (was it really not obvious that Adam Eaton was a bad idea?). The main lesson the Phillies need to learn is the value of having average major leaguers in your farm system, so you don't feel the need to spend 20 mil on below average guys like Feliz/Jenkins/Eaton.
But yes, it is way easier to have an extra 50 to 100 mil to cover your mistakes. Brian Cashman has done nothing to prove he's a sharp GM. And Theo Epstein, while having a great organizational philosophy, has the luxury of not being hurt by Julio Lugo type signings.

Weitzel: I thought it was common knowledge that you and clout are, in fact, the same person. :)

R. Billingsly: I'm assuming he means when Chase's foul was called a home run in Washington during their triumphant march to the 2006 post-season. Oh wait.

Clout, I love how you're the judge of baseball knowledge on this site. In actuality, you are really just a D-bag, regardless of which team you root for.

Yes, I am a Mets fan. Fan is short for fanatic, and it has been a crazy three years for my team. So excuse me if I try to make some rhyme or reason out of 29 blown saves. You try it. Not that easy.

But I can truly say that you don't know as much as you think you do about baseball, and definitely not as much as me, or other good posters on this site. So shut up, D-Bag.

Clout: No team bats 1.000, or close to it,in decision-making. And I would love to have an ownership group like the Red Sox do. Or own a network that raked in profits like the Yankees, Mets and others do. Having a 150 mil payroll certainly makes things easier, I would never contest that. But my point is that we spend a decent amount of money, at least enough to be competitive (we are about to win back-to-back division titles most likely), and that if that money were just spent a little more wisely (I don't think it's asking too much to know Adam Eaton for 3 years and 24 mil is a bad idea; we all did), and if we had a more productive farm system, we'd be an even better team.

The Cardinals were consistently competitive all decade with a payroll right around ours; they even won a World Series. The White Sox won the WS in 2005 with a 75 million dollar payroll. The point is that a smart front office with a decent-sized payroll can certainly be a consistently successful team. Then if you get lucky in the playoffs, you win a WS, and everyone is happy.

You would think that luck would have resulted in some championships, but I guess our "luck" wasn't that good.

Luck. Does he even know to which team/city he is referring? Luck knows nothing of Philadelphia.

Wow, looks like I missed a high level of discourse this morning at BLer.

Minaya may have killed this bullpen for the 2nd year in a row (not re-signing Bradford and Oliver was a big mistake) but overall i think his positive moves have outweighed the bad ones. You guys saying "hahahah Minaya for 4 years"-do you know where the Mets were at before 2004?

Steinbrenners comments have become something of a laughing stock in the media. First it was the complaining of injuries with the biggest payroll, and now the Wildcard system. It's funny, he wasn't complaining in 2000 when they won 87 games and went on to win the WS.

Or perhaps they are talking about when someone hit and broke a bat then the ball hit the bat at the exact time to bounce over the glove and prevent an inning changing play that...wait a minute, that wasn't, oh nevermind


I figured he meant it that way. Or when Lidge nailed down all those saves in March/April of this year. Total luck.

Plea to Phillies fans. Let them waste their hot air because in the end it doesn't help us to argue back with a voice of reason. We have to be focused/excited about tonight's game.

The mets fans can go to their site and cry about all their nonsense about how posting magic numbers jixes them, how they would be 100 game winners with a bullpen, how their offense is inconsistent etc, etc etc.

Exactly what I am talking about with this Woe is Us stuff. You are pathetic. You came from 7 back with 17 to play last year. That is as lucky as it gets. You have to have so much outside help. And while you guys had your pants down watching the Phillies score on pass balls, and reach first on strike three-wild pitches, the world was collapsing around the Mets, as every little thing possible went wrong. Weitzel -- what does 2006 matter? If the 30 year old Utley had his little homer called fair, would it have mattered? Last night's bat incident was the first break the Mets have gotten in a long time.

I will take some 1980 luck please!

Bubba can i have a double order please?

I believe I will take luck over skill anytime.

Phils R Bad, you take the term 'sore loser' to another level. I've never seen anything like your constant irrational arguing. And I know a lot of really irrational Mets fans, too.

You tell me, bro? You said two years of luck. That happened about two years ago to the day.

There is so much luck and unluck in every 162 game series. You're talking about two teams that have been neither lucky or great for the past 2-3 decades.

You wanna talk about bad luck? How bout a hurricane hitting Houston, forcing the red hot astros to play in Chicago North on no sleep against Zambrano in front of a million Cubs fans. Oh, and then there's the people who actually lost their homes...

Imagine if both the phillies and mets make it to the NLCS....OH MY!

My blood pressure is going to go through the roof having to hear from this guys for a week and a half.

I really can't argue with you people -- you actually believe that the Phillies are better than the Mets. In other news, I was searching over a past blog and just saw how much Jose Reyes' pointing to the sky earlier this year after a HR really ticked you guys off. LOL. You people

Mvptommy- I was thinking 80 and 08 are mirror images as numbers. Maybe we can luck out some karma from that.
Couldn't hurt.

Tommy D, that would be a nightmare for you and your team for more reason that just Mets fans. The Phils would get dominated like they have all year. Except for the this last series, the Phillies can only beat the Mets with ridiculous, LUCKY, comebacks

mvptommyd: It would be the first NLCS sponsored by Maalox the way these two teams play each other. I don't think I could take it; the games or the week leading up to it.

I was at that Nats game where Utley's HR was called foul. I couldn't tell it was really fair and nobody seemed to make a big deal out of it. But we were tied for the WC that game and lost the lead to the Dodgers never to recover it. Not to mention the Phils had to wait to play the 3rd game of that series until 1:30 A.M. due to a rain delay. Far from lucky.

Bubba: Yea also today on WIP some regular called in and played the numbers 8308 in the lotto and WON!

We'll see who is "better" at the end of the season. If the Mets have more wins than the Phillies, they are the better team. I can't dispute that. If the Phillies have more wins, then they are the better team.

Also, I would love to argue your post of 3:21 p.m. in more depth, because it is absurd, but I don't think it would matter. The '07 Phillies won down the stretch, the Mets didn't. Luck? The '07 Mets had a good April, the Phils didn't. Luck? I don't know what else to say. As Rollinsux pointed out, the season's too long to talk about luck. There are good breaks and bad breaks for both team. It happens. But, it's unfair to say that the Phillies are lucky. They won more ballgames last year. That's it.

The lucky Phils beat the amazin' Mets.
I can live with that every time.

I know. It would be beerleaguer sponsored by TUMS/MAALOX take your pick.

But of course the met fans think they "dominate" us. Our record over the braves is dominate, not the mets over us this yr.

If the mets make it that far they are going to need a team seemstress to put all their starters arms back on.

I guess it's back to work.

Good luck tonight everyone. For those of you who will be at the game, I'll see you there.


You wanna talk about luck? How about the team that eliminated us from the playoffs last year got there by scoring a run without even touching home plate. The baseball season is 162 games long, longer if you make it to the playoffs. Calls get blown, balls take funny bounces, and mother nature always has something to contribute. My point is that over such a long season it is more likely that these things will cancel each other out.

Yes Sir

Jason, starting a new thread didn't work. Today is like reading the Bizarro Beerleaguer site. You'd think the Muts had a 1½ game lead with four to play!

You would be singing a different tune, K Bless, if your team didn't get so lucky.

>>>tommyd: Also a mets note, they are going to pitch maine out of the bullpen when his arm isn't full healed. They ruin EVERY pitcher. Santana threw 125 last night and 116 the start before i believe.<<<

It would do you better to know what you're talking about here. Maine has a bone spur, which can't be worsened if he throws.

And, talking about Santana's pitch counts when Philly (not you personally) has been moaning about Hamels not throwing enough is...a Wilco song.

You guys won a game last night due to luck!!!! What in the **** are you talking about, stop the luck talk!

And yes, while it is a 1.5 game lead, it is 1 in the loss column, which means as far as the Phillies are concerned, it's a one game lead. But keep hiding behind that half game.

Jack: (we are about to win back-to-back division titles most likely)...

I'm going to bottle that one up and save it for Sunday. Let's go mets!!!!!

Yeah, Phils R Bad, and that half game you're making up is against Rich Harden. I'll take it.

Drew: What are you talking about? They said it was "just a bone spur" but I havent seen a pitcher be shut done for a month because of that. Also they said wagners injury "was no big deal" and look at him. I do not trust anything they report.

Secondly, Hamels has pitched the most innings of his career by FAR this season and last night pitched 116 pitches. People were complaining a month ago when they skipped him for the mets start but not since then, so your wrong again.

Check out this article on why the Yankees have become increasingly not as good. It will certainly sound familiar.

Good, Jack, you take it. When the Mets play like themselves, they beat a Rich Harden. The best 3-4-5 in the league, against a filthy pitcher who throws five innings, and then the rest against a Cubs bullpen resting its best guys.

Actually, it's a half-game lead because there's a half-chance it will become a 1 game lead and a half-chance it will become a 2 game lead.

And with your 5+ ERA guy taking on their 2-and-change ERA guy on that catch-up day, you could argue those odds above are quite simple and generous to your club.

But somehow, 9 more pitches is ruining Santana? I'd be more concerned about starting 45-year-olds on short rest than the health of Johan.

And, if Wagner's injury doesn't show up on an MRI, then what are they supposed to think? I understand using caution, but you can only go with the knowledge you have.

Why do people blame their own teams' failures on the other teams' luck? Seems childish to me.

A Kutztown reference. Love it.

"...against a filthy pitcher who throws five innings, and then the rest against a Cubs bullpen resting its best guys."

Wouldn't the fact that the Cubs have clinched aad have their best starters on a pitch count be considered and resting some of their position players "luck?"

Just curious.

I REALLY have to get back to work.

should read: "...pitch count and resting some of their position players be considered "luck?"

Moyer doesn't pitch for speed therefore doesn't strain as much as pitchers like johan, do you know anything about pitching?

Also, just because the MRI doesn't reveal injury then it must be ok? Great medical staff the mets have. If everything was by an xray then why arent you or i doctors, we have enough sense to look at a mri and see damage.

Ha, Billingsley, actually its unlucky. the Brewers will be gettin a far worse Cubs team than the Mets are

tommyd, you are truly an idiot. What do you know about the Mets medical staff? How dumb can you sound? Wagner knew he had a tear in his elbow he just wanted to try and pitch through it until the offseason d bag

Is that how pitching works? A pitcher who doesn't throw as hard can't put as much strain on his arm? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

If the tests don't show an injury, and that's what available to the doctors, then what else are they supposed to think? It's not like the Mets have Dr. Nick on their medical staff to protect their multi-million dollar investments.

We play the braves tonight not the mets . Why don't we just forward the mets trolls to a cubbies site.

Play whose on your schedule and be quiet. Phils played them 6 times therefore so do the mets, live with it! We actually played 4 of the 6 at wrigley and you play at Shea, are we whining? No, be quiet please or leave.

Phils R Bad is just a jacka$$. I wouldn't bother responding to him unless he actually merits responding to something that is worthwhile.

As for the Mets, they won a game they absolutely had to because Santana was rock solid (he has been as good as advertised) and Reyes game through in a big way. Every Mets' fans pisses and moans about the bullpen but if Reyes doesn't have a couple of decent games this last week, Mets are going to have trouble scoring enough runs regardless of their pitching situation.

No we actually played the Cubs 7 times.

And won the season series.

But that was lucky, of course.

So let me get this straight? Wagners knew he had a tear, told the mets and they still let him pitch?

Now they are doing the Same thing or very similar to maine?

Wow fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

And yes, a pitcher like Jamie Moyer knows how to pitch more effective then hard ball throwers, did i stutter?

Anyway, good luck with the cubs, how about our game tonight boys? Do you think myers will rebound?

Myers will prob. rebound. But where do you get off talking about what medical staffs should do? Just stick to thinking the Phillies are better than the Mets. Ignorance is bliss.

Tommy: Kinda like Shawne Merriman? How the Chargers told him to stop playing?

And if you honestly think that about Jamie Moyer, you are a complete and total moron.

And no, you didn't stutter. I just could barely read it through all your poorly spelled words and horrific grammar.

Luck is part of life. In baseball there are 162 games each one lost and won by skill influenced by lcuk. A line drive hit directly at a fielder although a good at bat unfortunately still is an out. The point is ove 162 games the better teams usually truimph. Luck can impact the winner as when a team gets red hot before the close. Colorado last year played above its level for a month. Tough break for us.
Again there are 162 games plenty of opporutnity to max your skills. Thank goodness the phils manage to wake up in september--here is hoping they can keep it going through October.

I wouldn't necessarily count Santana as a hard ball thrower. He generally hits 91 on his fastball and topped out at 93. He throws a ton of change-ups in the 80's.

ok thanks bro

Amazing what a difference a day makes with these Met Trolls.

Phils R Bad: you are hilarious. thanks for brightening my day.

Why are there so many mets fans here? Oh i get it, they come here when they win and when they lose they go to metsblog to complain about the team, manager, owner and anyone else to pin the loss on including the poor guy who runs the blog, who got threats to his HOUSE about the magic number being posted. Wow, and they said phillies fan are irrational. GO BACK TO METSBLOG

Anything for you CY. Does that stand for Cy Young, as in JA Happ, as in the lucky, once-in-a-lifetime performances you've been getting from him?

You've shamed me, tommy, with your well thoughtout arguments and blatant homer-ism. I'll head back to Metsblog now.

Im here win or loss, when Weitzel doesn't block me.

Ok see ya and leave the poor guy alone, it isn't his fault. You know the players are the ones who actually play the game.

How can they be once in a life time if you used the plural PERFORMANCESSSSSSSSSSSSS???

And it stand for Chris Young. So take your pick.

I am all for free press and exchange of ideas but I must say this Phils R Bad dude has nothing to say and he is just plain rude maybe Weitzel ought to block him.

Run differentials are instructive when evaluating "luck". The Phillies' is better by a solid margin.

Btw, this whole thread reminds me of the humorous ecard that says "The team located geographically closest to me is better than the one located geographically closest to you."

I love all of the mets trolls are complaining that we have all the luck, find something that is worth arguing about.

U are bad: I doubt JA Happ is bad considering he had a great season in AAA, and he has not had once in a lifetime performances. He just has had solid 6-7 inning starts which should be expected from someone who pitched well this year.

Anyway have fun trying to beat Big Z tonight, how much you wanna bet he homers off of Oliver(I'm only good against the phillies) Perez?

PRB is right. The Phillies are just luckier than the Mets. In fact, last year was just one gigantic run of good luck for the Phillies and bad luck for the Mets. How does a team manage to get through an entire season, and the only key players who land on the DL are Howard, Utley, Hamels, Victorino, Gordon, Madson, Werth, Lieber, Garcia, and Myers? It's hard to fathom how a team could get so lucky over the course of a 162-game season.

It's also incredible how UNLUCKY the Mets are. Think about it. Almost every time that the Mets bring a reliever into the game, it just so happens that every ball the other team puts in play manages to fall in for a hit. What are the odds of such bad luck? You know what else was unlucky? This past off-season, when the Twins gave the Mets Santana for practically nothing in return, it was very unlucky that they were not also willing to throw in Joe Nathan and Joe Mauer. That was just a terrible break for the Mets. Another terrible break was that they played this 4-game series with the Cubs, only after the Cubs had already clinched the division. This allowed the Cubs to do things like bench Theriot and Fukudome and Aramis Ramirez, in favor of young, inexperienced players who are almost certain to play great, since they're highly motivated to prove themselves. And did you all see that play last night where Santana hit an infield grounder which bounced off part of his broken bat and went for an infield hit, extending the inning & eventually allowing the Mets to tie the game? That was an incredibly unlucky play when you think about it. If the ball hadn't hit the piece of his broken bat, the inning would have ended very quickly, which would have meant that Santana got insufficient rest between innings, which would have meant that, instead of lasting 8 innings, he might have only been able to last 6.

We should all be grateful. The Phillies are on the verge of winning the division for the second season in a row, even though it's totally clear to any rational-thinking person that the Mets are the vastly superior team. The Phillies have had a run of good luck that is almost unprecedentend in baseball history, whereas the Mets can get nothing but bad luck. I think we all owe PRB an apology for treating him like he's some kind of whining idiot who's unable to accept reality. On behalf of all BL posters, PRB: I apologize. The Mets are clearly the better team. The Phillies are just luckier. These people at Beerleaguer must be blind not to see that.

Well said BAP.

BAP with the post of the day!
And now I'm off to the Nats-Marlins game.


Will be scoreboard watching the whole time. Good news is Cy Redding pitches tonight so he'll be unavailable this weekend!

Go Myers! Go Phils!

PRB: So a guy pitches a couple of great games and that falls under your definition of luck? What about that shutout that Jonathan Niese pitched last week? I take it, you consider that "once-in-a-lifetime" occurrence to be lucky too? And I imagine you feel the same way about Fernando Tatis's 2008 season, the likes of which he hasn't had in 8 years?

When it comes to J.A. Happ, the Mets are the lucky ones. Lucky, that is, that the Phillies didn't put him in their starting rotation about 2 months ago. It may interest you to know that he has been stellar at every level of the minor leagues, and was the Phillies' minor league pitcher of the year this year.

BAP - Exactly.

b-a-p: Beautiful.

Channel 6, 5:00 PM

Suspicious packages with metal wires found at CBP on 1st base side. Robots reportedly checking them out. The game is still reportedly scheduled at this point.

suspicious packages found at CBP??? bringing in the bomb squad?????

Yes, according to channel 6. Didn't see the entire segment, my son called me at the office to turn on the TV and I just caught the last 15 seconds or so.

BAP - You probably said it better than the rest of us could have. I bow to your writing style and superior wit.

I'll make one suggestion to the group... IGNORE THEM. They hate us because they know in their heart of hearts in the middle of a moonless night that our Fightins' have balls and that their sorry ass Mutts simply don't. Talent isn't the difference here. It's called intestinal fortitude, and it's wearing red pinstripes.

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EST. 2005

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