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Thursday, August 14, 2008

Comments

It has been 12 hours and I am still heated about Rollins comments for multiple reasons.

1. I do not condone booing our own players, however when we as fans can tell they are doing wrong for the past 100 games and not correcting it then yes, we will boo. For example Howard on pace to strike out 200 times on that same lazy curveball that shots low and away. Or Rollins swinging at the first freaking pitch to open every game and first pitch with running scoring position so he hits a lazy ground ball to short.

2. If he wants to get traded, send him back to Oakland, apparently he rather play in front of empty stadiums then with fans who care.

3. I obviously want this team to succeed for the Greg Dobbs', Chase Utley's, Jamie Moyer's and Chris Coste's of the team that actually respect the fans.

4. Finally, isnt it ironic in all his commercials the phillies are running, he says he likes that the fans arent a cupcake city and that he loves how they will let you know if your doing wrong? Jimmy, which one is it man? Can have it both ways you piece of trash.

5. This all comes down to the one thing us as fans are guilty of. That is acting like this team won the World Series last year with a parade at love park to celebrate a division victory.

I find all the faux anger at Rollins to be bizarre. He didn't demand a trade. He didn't say he didn't like playing in Philly. He basically said the same thing that countless other Philadelphia athletes have said -- and you need only read through the comments page on Beerleaguer to see that it's 100% true. If you want to be angry at Rollins, the anger should be directed at his garbage play this year (and, more specifically, last night).

Now that I've had a chance to calm down and breath, I'm easing off, just slightly, on my fury against Rollins. The theme I agree with is this: Philly fans pride themselves on being what they are, then they get upset when someone points out what they are.

Why should anyone have to separate Rollins previous infractions from the comments he made yesterday? It is relevant. He loafs, is late, and criticizes the manager, and now he criticizes the fans. Rollins has become excellent at pointing the finger at everyone but himself. Rollins has not been singled out by the fans. He is not booed for the sake of booing. If anything he gets a pass from most fans in the wake of his MVP season.

Rollins has yet to own up to the fact that he is not performing, and instead, he wines about everything under the sun.

He completely ignores the essence of the game. When a player does something great, the fans cheer. Sports are as much about the spectacle as the performance on the field. How many people would show up to a game if everyone else in the stands sat in silent approval of a Ryan Howard 500 foot blast? If you heard crickets chirping when Chase Utley hits a 2 out, 2 strike, double with men on second and third? This is the essence of the experience that is a sporting event.

The opposite effect of cheering is jeering. A player no more deserves to be cheered for his/her good performance than he/she deserves to be booed for a bad performance. If Rollins or anyone else would have the fans not boo bad play, then they might as well say that they would rather not be cheered when they do something good. Fan behavior is inherently reactionary, and fans are smart enough to understand what they are looking at. When a player dogs it, the fans know. When they bust their butts, the fans see this as well. Rollins just wants it both ways. He wants to be cheered when he is successful, but never jeered when he is not. He wants silent disapproval of his misgivings, and loud, raucous cheering for his successes. That is simply not the way it works in any part of life. No one witnesses failure for an extended period of time without voicing some displeasure with the performance/behavior. This is true in everything, not just sports. People are corrective in nature, and fans are people. Rollins would just rather fans be some domestic animal that moves to his beckoning, that feeds from his hand. Rollins fails to realize that the fans don't live from his hand, and even if they did, eventually the starving dog is going to turn on its master when he eats but gives nothing in return.

I think the sequence of events is what makes me not want to give Rollins the benefit of the doubt here. If he was giving 100% at all times, acting like a team leader should, and playing at a high level, he'd totally be able to get away with those comments. But he's not.

For everyone on here who thinks us BLers are "typical philly fans". You are the fools. We cheer when guys do bad, thats how it is and we ADORE you when you do good. So last year if he didn't mind the admiration, why now that he sucks does he mind the boos?

Also, in order to be "frontrunners" don't you need to win something first? So that also is untrue, every year espically this year that stadium is packed to the gills with people. Even when we misses the playoffs every year by 1 game we still came back.

Yes the use of the word frontrunners is the biggest problem. The thing is, I think it was a poor choice of words. What Rollins said after frontrunners did not describe frontrunners. It described fan behavior throughout the northeast U.S.

mvp: There is nothing inconsistent about Rollins' statement about the Phillies' fans being front-runners & his statements that he "loves how [the fans] will let you know if your doing wrong."

Rollins did not villify the fans. He said they are front-runners. There was nothing in his statement which suggested that he viewed that as a bad thing.

This is a silly discussion. We've got all these posters on their high moral hobby horse, acting like Rollins just called for the violent overthrow of the United States government. In actuality, these same posters are just going about their days and not giving even a passing thought to his comments except when they write a post on Beerleaguer, pretending to be furious. If you really ARE spending your day thinking about Rollins' comments, you seriously need to get a life.

I have been angry all morning about Rollins' comments, and then had my anger boil over after reading RSB's comments above.

RSB - you want to know why Philly fans get so offended at comments like this? I'll tell you: This season, the Phillies have already cracked the 3M attendance mark, and have had 14 consecutive sell outs - for a franchise that has one 1 stinking world series in 125 years and has lost 10,000 games. Phillies fans and frontrunners, they are diehards that keep coming back, failure after failure, to support this team.

I have been a Phillies fan my entire life, and seen only 2 post-season appearances, and yet there I am, day after day, watching the team or going to games.

Comments like Rollins' draw the fans' anger because it shows, again, that athletes like Jimmy care only about the $$ and fame, not about winning. Philly rallies around a Coste, a Moyer, a Dobbs, because they play to win - Jimmy plays for stats and then cries when the fans call him out on it.

Once again, I'm upset with the blanket statement of calling all Philly fans front-runners. Every city and every team has front-runners, but there's plenty of diehards. Hell, even the Rays have diehards now to a certain extent. Calling us all front-runners is the mistake, not the assertion of we boo and cheer to the extreme, because that part is true.

I'm not ready to hang J-Roll yet. I understand both sides of the argument. However, I think these comments are the last straw for some, and thus the negative reaction. As alluded to by other posters, J-Roll's less-than-stellar performance this year, lack of hustle, breaking rules, etc. has been too much to take. I think he was given a pass early this season because of the terrific year he had last season. Utley didn't get booed during his weeks of futility because he was playing hard. When J-Roll was struggling, no one booed. But when he coupled his struggles with laziness and a poor attitude, I have a problem. And I think others did too.

I'm going to cheer this team for the rest of the year and I'm going to brush J-Roll's comments aside, because that's what frontrunners do.

@JaredK if the Phillies has the Nationals record, you wouldn't be at the stadium. And 50% of the posters would not be posting.

That is clear.

And that is called Front Running.

Carson, thanks for the link on the last thread. I think Zolecki nailed it.

Jimmy-If you go 3 for 4 in every game for the rest of the road trip- all will be forgiven.

BobbyD: He said frontrunner, what he meant was fair weather fan. Eithier way it is wrong.

Is he wrong for saying it? No
Is it possibly true? No, whether this team goes 89-73 or 70-92 we will be there to support this team. Besides 2002 when we only drew a shade over 20,000 a night ( which still isn't terrible) we have been there nearly sold our since this new ballpark has been here.

So frontrunner, maybe wrong word but who are we to decifer if we are so stupid according to him we don't know when or how to boo? Even if he meant fair weather, that isn't fair eithier.

Look at players we have booed notoriously in the past. David Bell = deserved
Scott Rolen= Deserved
Bobby Abreau= Deserved ( Now getting it worse in New York)
Tom Gordon = Deserved

All these guys said stuff bad about the fans OR Continued to suck for MONTHS Before we started to boo.

If Jimmy didn't want to be here, he wouldn't have signed a long-term contract extension. His deal was signed at a time when nobody cared one way or the other about J-Roll and the team was less committed to winning than the current version.

From JaredK to J-Roll, these comments are born out of frustration.

"not with our ghetto "can't speak no English" shortstop and not without him"

@Willie -- Thanks for bringing race into the argument. Go take a walk.

Passion is a double edged sword. You can't have a desperation to win, as this city does, and not get over-emotional and angry when the team fails. We actually care about what this team does, it's not entertainment, it's an emotional investment. some players will appreciate doing a job in a city that makes what they do seem intensely significant, others will choose to blame the fans for not kissing their butts. I don't want Philly to become like St Louis. St Louie fans forget about the game the second it's over. I know I've been to their games. Those aren't fans; they are customers.

B_A_P- this isn't a "silly discussion", and although you may not care about it or be angered in any way, it's obvious some are. I'm trying to be level-headed (shocker!), and I won't boo Rollins, because I don't boo. Hell, I'll still cheer for Rollins, because I'm glad he's on my favorite team, but at the same time I'm pissed he called us all "front-runners".

BAY AREA PHAN: Last time i checked how much money have you spend on going to games out there in CA? How much time do you spend waiting in line to meet the players? How much money do you spend on merchandise? All these things pay their stinking salaries.

So, don't say you need to get a life if it bothers you, because here where the team actually plays and people spend their hard earned money and stay up until 1:30 watching them lose in the bottom of the 9th. We do care.

I have a full time job and of course it isn't the biggest thing in the world. But to say it shouldn't bother a fan is ridiculous. And the only way a frontrunner is defined is to be negative. I never heard before that used as a positive. But maybe in CA they are used to that as you see Dodger Fans.

I take issue with being thrown in as a "front-runner." I always took front-runner to mean you buy a Romo jersey because the Cowboys suddenly make the playoffs.

I've been a Phillies fan since birth. I was 3 when Schmidt jacked the Wrigley homers -- my first Phillies memory.

I, and most of the folks on here, am not a front-runner. I cheer for my team and get ridiculously frustrated when they don't play as well as they could. Sometimes I boo because ^*&%$& I would like the Phillies to, I don't know, win another World Series.

BAP: Thank you for that, saved me a lot of time.

Listening to WIP for a bit this morning, it seemed like there was a strong undertone of racialism in the comments directed at Jimmy by the callers. Would Chase get ripped this badly had he said the same things? Perhaps, but my gut says no. SOme idiot "commentator" on there said, basically, that he believes, and offering no proof mind you, that this is all about Jimmy being upset about his contract and that is why he is playing "poorly" this year... yeah, guess it has nothing to do with his ankle.

Anyone watch Jason Donald play SS for Team USA?

MPN: I would agree with that, unfortunately.

Front-runner sounds a lot like another label I don't care for: Flip-flopper.

"Comments like Rollins' draw the fans' anger because it shows, again, that athletes like Jimmy care only about the $$ and fame."

Oh, please. Give me a break. Please identify the portion of Rollins' comments which say, "I don't care about winning. I only care about money and fame." This is the single most over-the-top, bizarre statement ever written on Beerleaguer (and I would know; I've written a few myself). We should be discussing the Phillies' atrocious play, not some stupid commments made on a trashy late-night show that runs opposite Sports Center and Baseball Tonight, and which no serious fan ever watches.

@Willie -- whatever. You know who you are.

To Mike Cunningham - When the Phillies DID have the Nationals records, all through the 90's, I was right there watching the games and going down to the stadium. I suffered through Juan Bell, Steve Jeltz, Rex Hudler, Bobby Munoz, Gregg Jeffries, and the rest of the marginal talent this ownership grew threw out there. So dont tell me I am a frontrunner...

@Willie -- Your ghetto comments are offensive. And why would anyone wish and injury on anyone? Hey Willie -- BOO!

Jimmy is absolutely right, half of the idiot fans in philly jump on and off the band wagon depending on how the teams are doing, and it's the exact reason why so many athletes DON'T want to play here, and why so many hate playing here. Instead of blaming the troubles on the heart of the line up, why not pointing fingers at PAT GILLICK and CHARLIE MANUEL, these haven't exactly set this team up for success. Look at the stupid moves made over the years, and look how it's affecting us now. Bad trades and signings, and not bringing back players like Kyle Loshe. Jeff Geonkins is absolutely horrible, and so is Coste and Ruiz who give absolutely NO help in the lineup. You guys do the same thing with the Eagles, you loved them years ago when they were making the playoffs every year and now people try to chase out McNabb and have the audacity to say "KOLB" is the next Montana, idiots...we don't deserve any type of leeway when it comes to being a**holes because we haven't won a championship, and at this rate we never will.

Yeah, Jimmy saying we should shoot for 100 wins this year is because he doesn't care about the team's success.... Obviously there is a lot of frustration about this team, but you know what? We're all frustrated because the bar has been raised on baseball expectations in this town. THe Phillies are 664-589 since 2001. This isn't your older brother's Phillies.

Willie: I think you just proved my point.

To all the posters defending Rollins, which is fine because it's your opinion, please don't lump all the "pissed off at J-Roll" crowd into the same group, because I want him to remain a Phillie, would hate to see him injured, and do not think he is "ghetto"...plus I still desperately want to make the playoffs!

MPN: For the love of God, do not turn this into a racial arguement. I personally do not give a damn if it were Greg Dobbs, So Taguichi, Carlos Ruiz or as in this case jimmy rollins that said it, i would be pissed. And I listened to WIP all morning at work at my desk and haven't heard one person say that, so I don't beleive you.

Before Jimmy worries about the fans, why doesn't he hit the batting cage more in stead of driving his mercedes to new york.

I think Jimmy Rollins will either apologize or get traded this off-season. Wait until the next home game- the boos will be merciless. I really wonder whether something stupid like this could sabotage the rest of the season.

@JaredDK -

Well then you shouldn't be upset about what he said then right? I didn't feel like JROLL was talking about me.

But I see people in the stands who weren't there in 2001... when he first came up. 1.7MM fans.

The Phillies are on pace for over 3MM. Look at the records.


Booing Abreu and Gordon was NOT deserved. Abreu was the best hitter on the team for 5 years and EXACTLY what the current line-up is missing. And how's the bullpen been since Gordon got hurt?

0-5, 2 Ks

That's the only thing I care about that Rollins did yesterday. Shut up and play Jimmy.

It has much less to do with race (not sure why that is even at issue here) and much more to do with recent performance. Had JRoll said the exact same thing this time last year, everyone would have nodded their heads and said, "he might have a point but they sure are fun to watch!!" But because he's not performing and made the comments, everyone wants to run him out of town. The truth hurts even more when you can't fall back on winning to distract from the comments.

If the fundamental basis of his point is that we didn't have these sellouts and record attendance numbers 5 years ago when the team wasn't defending NL East Champs, one would be extremely hard pressed to argue. If he's saying that the fans are "fickle" (regardless of how many of them are showing up), he's exactly right there, too. Losing will do that to a fan base. At least they still give a crap enough to boo - get better and they'll stop. Ask the Montreal Expos about what real frontrunners look like.

Are you kidding me! Abreau wouldn't hit a wall for a ball and was the BIGGEST TACT ON HITTER this club has ever seen. Look up his stats with runners in scoreing position buddy. My yankee fan friends made fun of me when they got him 2 years ago saying the phillies are stupid and I told them just wait. Now they HATE HIM and that is a fact.

And Gordon, he has been Awful for years, if you are serious then you are clueless about this team and probably do not watch half the games.I go to 15-20 games a year and when he was healthy and came in for the 8th with the Lead, you would see the parents with small children leave because their kids were tired and knew we would lose the game, which 80% of the time we did.

BAP, are you suggesting Rollins did not mean to ridicule the fans when he used the term "frontrunners?" That's like suggesting calling someone an "a$$hole" is a term of endearment.

i have two gripes with what Rollins said: (1) he tried to insult the fans, and (2) if he really believes what he says, he's a moron. Frontrunners don't boo when their team is doing badly; the whole point of a frontrunner is NOT TO CARE when the team does badly. In fact a frontrunner is the anti-fan, vocally supporting a team when it does well and silently slinking away when it does not. A frontrunner is a fraud. No frontrunner with an ounce of common sense would choose the phillies as his team--that'd be like taking your yugo out for a spin while the porsche sits in the garage.

"Ghetto" has an undeniable racist connotation, regardless of what you meant. Its just one of those ambiguous loaded words that make people uncomfortable. You can't win this argument- everytime you say "ghetto" around people you don't know, someone will accuse you of being a racist.

Look folks, I am as pissed off about this current level of play as anyone. Last night I watched an episode of Generation Kill after the game to relax enough to go to sleep... And I served in Iraq and got shot at and everything.

tommy: Perhaps it is because I live in south Philly and hear the code words when I talk to neighbors, but when I hear someone on Jody Mac (the sane sports talk alternative) say that if he was standing in front of Jimmy he'd slap him like an "ignorant child" that to me crosses a line. You'll notice I did not use a totally broad brush on this, I'm just saying that to me, about the whitest Mick you'd ever meet, it seems like there is a racialist tone to some comments on sports talk radio...

tommyd: i've watched about 90% of the innings the Phillies have played in the past 20 years. When Abreu was here there was one stat I cared about: .300 .300 .300 .300. Who gives a damn he didn't run into a wall. I didn't care if he took a lawn chair out to right field. And I don't care how he's doing now. .300 .300 .300. And I guess you didn't watch Gordon help the Phillies make a playoff run last September. PLAYOFFS! And you didn't address how the bullpen has been this year since Gordon got hurt.

mvp: No, I do not fly to Philadelphia to see games. I have, however, gone out to see them both times they were in the Bay Area. I also shelled out $100 on the MLB.tv package, and I waste countless hours of my otherwise billable time watching the Phillies on tv, reading about them on the Internet, and having arguments on Beerleaguer. If one's status us a legitimate fan is tied to one's financial output for the team, I'm pretty sure I've well exceeded the threshold.

The question is: if J-Roll goes 4-5 with 3R, is all forgiven?

Man, how thin-skinned can you get? Someone called Philly fans front-runners. Get over it.

Besides, Philly fans are, essentially, front-runners compared to fans from some other teams. Get over it.

He was asked about what it's like to play in Philly, so he said what he felt. What, should he lie? You may not agree that Philly fans are front-runners (although I do), but it's a fact that those are his impressions. Get over it.

Rollins plays hard and always has. This year, he's screwed up a couple of times and hasn't played well and people are all over him - calling him names, saying he's lazy, impugning his character, etc. He's been the main face of the Phils for years but so many people couldn't care less.

That's called being a front-runner. Get over it.

...and the Phillies win, of course.

How many of you can't wait for this season to be over, already?? This has been sheer torture.

willie: A reference to one's "ghetto" background can only be construed as a racial reference. But I'll take you at your word that it was just a poor choice of words, and not an intended racist comment.

Willie: Ghetto actually came from Italian and historically, before adopted into the English language, referred to areas where Jews were forces to live.

Perhaps if Phils fans were true "front runners" (bandwagon jumpers, fair weather fans, whatever), we'd see a more dominant team on the field. This is obviously an ownership group/FO that deals solely with revenue dictating payroll (as a good BUSINESS will do - we can argue over the business/emotional aspect later and have ad nauseum).

That said, ownership would realize that a more competitive/dominant team would equal more $$, which should translate (at least somewhat, assuming static profit margins) to a larger payroll. The fact that this payroll has been relatively flat for years now speaks either less than "frontrunner" followers (i.e. we've hit the max) or an ownership group that intends to pocket the majority of incremental profits. We'll see next year what record revenues do to payroll. Not so bad to have those "front runner" fans if it means a more competitive team.

This has now official gotten ridiculous. See you all for the Game Thread.

Have fun.

BAY AREA PHAN: No my point isn't the financial aspect. It is that through the finances is why people are angry. Also my point is that when things are going well do not use the media or fans as scapegoats. Thats my whole point.

When jimmy was benched he said I don't agree with it, when he was late and benched he said I do not agree with it, when he sucks this year and gets booed he says the fans are frontrunners. Doesn't he have any sense of accountability? This guy acts like he walks on water.

And my point about the games is that you do not go to games here, therefore you shouldn't say anything about the game atmosphere because from watching on TV is totally different from being there in person as you can probably attest to from going to games in the bay area. But from going to hundreds of games, the fans never boo unless well deserved and thats a fact.

The only fans that boo are the drunkins during dollar dog nights that also do the eagles chants from the 400 level.

As much as I'd like to continue this scintillating game of logic and reasoning deduction, I'm through. Be back tomorrow. Hopefully a Phillies win will get everyone's blood back down.

Last words: willie, nice try. It's a loaded term.

I don't think Durbin's struggles are too surprising. His ERA this year is still half of what his career ERA is. Moving to the bullpen usually helps pitchers, but not this much. I definitely would not offer him the 3/12 contract some people are suggesting on here.

I don't boo our own players and wouldn't unless they did something really serious, like Manny purposely taking a K.

Jimmy shouldn't have said what he did, though. He prefaced it by saying he was might catch some flack, which means he knew it was going to be at least a little controversial. When the fans are who are ultimately driving the multi-million dollar salaries for everyone, it is stupid to insult them. Without fans MLB is just a bunch of washed up adults on a field.

>>Look at players we have booed notoriously in the past. David Bell = deserved
Scott Rolen= Deserved
Bobby Abreau= Deserved ( Now getting it worse in New York)
Tom Gordon = Deserved<<

Let me add:
Mike Schmidt = not deserved
Richie Allen = not deserved IMHO

I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just saying you can't win this argument. Even if by "ghetto" you just meant people who live in poor urban neighborhoods, someone will be offended. Its not like everyone talks like Jimmy Rollins in those places, so people who actually do might take offense.

Willie - I agree that Rollins might be thin-skinned. I'm not sure, though. He wasn't whining about playing in Philly. He was giving his impression of the fans. I think his characterization was pretty accurate. But I think the characterizations of Rollins as lazy, etc., aren't accurate.

It's possible that another player might have followed up Rollins' statements with something like "well, they might be front-runners, but if you play well they will support you," but still agree with him that if you don't play well, Phils fans are more likely to be on your case than fans in many other cities.

The only problem I have with Rollins is his spot in the lineup.

And that is Manuel's fault.

Jimmie: Mike Schmidt = not deserved, TRUE and what did he do? Nothing, he said at least they care.

I don't understand how Rolen, Abreau, and Gordon deserve to be booed...They were/are all above average baseball players.. In the logic of booing because of bad performance why don't we boo every below average player in the league. Booing players on a team you want to win probably is the dumbest thing in sports I have witnessed since I started watching as a kid. I will boo the hell out of the other team, it's fun, but booing your own team is pretty dumb.

He said it because let's face it...most philly fans are front runners. And for some reason they love shooting the players and not the coaches and terrible management.

Not Front Runners - it should be Phront Runners

lol @mvp you have a short memory regarding Schmidt and his relationship with the fans.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/quotes/quoschm.shtml>Mike Schmidt Quotes

Fans ebb and flow with the teams they root for. No fan is content with a team that is losing games the way the Phils have been. No Cardinal fan is happy with his team when they do bad or dont give 100%.
I have noticed the ebb and flow on Beerleaguer too.
Dang Ol Chollie was winning people over earlier this year whe we were 6 games up. Now we are back to killin the guy.(which I agree with, BTW)
Been to many games, suffered many years. Always paid attention.
Only guys I ever really wanted to boo were the slackers.
JRoll has begun to look like one. I hope its a false observation coz I always liked him.
It will always happen.
We ask JRoll to have thick skin. We need it too.
Back to baseball boys.
Phils Phan since DOB June 22 1969.

I don't know why you love Tom Gordon so much, the guy stinks.

True front runner fans are Florida's. They play in an empty stadium that magically fills up when they go on one of their title runs.

You could walk up to Shea stadium last September and buy a ticket to any of those games they lost down the stretch when they had a chance to repeat as division champs for the first time in their history.

I'm sure Jroll would love playing for LaRussa, just like Rolen did. Wonder how he'd like it when LaRussa decided to bat him ninth.

This is hilarious.

Philly fans boo players if they don't perform up to expectations. The players then say that they are booed if they don't play up to expectations. Then the fans boo players for saying that they've been booed.

What's the common element there? Philly fans boo players.

Get over it. Booing is fun.

When I was a kid and went down to the Phillies' games with my friends, the highlight of the experience was often booing players - whether it was Phillies or opposing players.

Didn't catch the end of last night's game but my question is was Lidge up and ready to come in the game in the 8th with two outs, two on, Kent at the plate and Manny on-deck?

Seems like a four out save for someone who has not pitched since Friday is not unreasonable, especially when the heart of the line-up is due up and the game is on the line with runners in scoring position. I know four out saves are not liked by many managers but this is a situation which cried out for one.

If Lidge was not up and warming then you wonder if his injury is more severe than the front office and Lidge have been stating (no surprise on this count)and a trip to the DL (backdated of course) will happen soon.

You got to hand it to the Phils. They have everyone talking about what Rollins said rather than the train wreck this team has become. Instead of the 'leaguers screamin for someone's head, they have us fighting among ourselves about who's a racist and what's a frontrunner. Don't let them distract you, focus on the real problem.

This is a topic that should be isolated to talk radio and not a blog the caliber of Beerleaguer. Rollins will probably make a 'clarifying comment' on this today and hopefully it will end.

My whole thing is if last year rollins loved it when we adored him then why does he care now when the fans boo him due to a subpar year?

Answer me that Rollins defenders

Phront Runners

In case you baseball "guru's" havent noticed, this goes hand in hand with the team decline.

Players getting frustrated + losing games they should win + the need to blame/vent = media/fans ding ding ding we have a winner

"Philly fans boo players if they don't perform up to expectations. The players then say that they are booed if they don't play up to expectations. Then the fans boo players for saying that they've been booed."

LOL. An excellent synopsis.

Weitzel nailed it in this portion of his header:

"There are the comments about fans, words spoken out of frustration, and the difference between St. Louis, where banjo-hitting reservist So Taguchi received a 20-second standing ovation in their last visit, and Philadelphia, where the cheers are muted and mixed with boos for the best shortstop in franchise history. Sometimes the truth hurts, even if the topic should be taken off the table. Sometimes it pays to have a thicker skin, on both sides of the fence"

I don't blame Jimmy at all for feeling slighted somewhat when he sees people in a baseball city giving a fringe player at best a standing ovation when he comes to town. I do blame him for not breaking his statement down a little more opting instead to use sweeping generalizations.

Also, I think, and some agree, that Rollins is playing right now on an ankle that is not 100%. So maybe that plays into his thinking as well.

And Parker- please outline more incidents where Rollins has been a problem outside of the two public incidents this year. There have been two instances. Once he agreed with his manager and once he didn't. So please stop acting like he is the devil incarnate.

"why does he care now when the fans boo him due to a subpar year?"

Why does he cared that the team get booed? Why does he care that after years of busting his hump on the field, fans call him lazy?

I agree with TK. This should be a non-issue for anyone who's not a WIP type of fan.

If a player can get charged up and energized by the crowds, thrive on that excitement. All you need to look at is Last September at CBP, to see Rollins react to the crowd. Bret Myers react to the crowd. If you as a phan, understand the impact you have on the game, YOU have a responsiblity and an obligation as a fan, to do MORE encouragement, when they are losing or struggling rather than they do well. Anybody can cheer a winner. Cheering someone on a 0 for streak, NOW that my friends is special.

If you dont' believe your booing has a negative impact on the team and believe they "should get over it" you are stupid.

These players are human beings. With the same emotions that you and I have. You have to expect that the showering of boos is going to have an effect.

Maybe... just maybe... 1 championship in 125 years has something to do with the people in the seats... and not the players on the field.

I think I've posted this anecdote before. Back before he lost his mind, Darren Daulton used to tell the story of how the Phillies once held a pre-game pee-wee game for the players' children. Daulton was in the midst of a bad year and, when his kid was announced, the fans actually booed him.

I remember hearing Daulton tell the story, and my immediate thought was, "Well you WERE hitting just .220 at the time."

If Jimmy wins 3 MVPS and hits 548 HRs with 10 Gold Gloves...he can say whatever he wants about the fans...til then: SHUT UP AND PLAY!!!

There is a lot of focus of Rollins' use of the word "frontrunner." But the mention of "St. Louis," beyond the Howard connection, certainly recalls Scott Rolen's "baseball heaven."

Do you think Rollins knew that phrase would sound especially inflammatory to Philadelphia fans?

Yeah, I'm still pissed about his comments. As another poster pointed out: 125 years, 1 championship and an incredibly high level of fan attendance and support for generations.

I get it. Jimmy's frustrated. Guess what? So are the fans.

Hey Willie-

how about we:
1. replace the "W" in Willie with My Phist!

Not to criticize but we never had high attendance until CBP...we were always towards the bottom...besides a few years like 1993, 1983, 1980 etc...I wonder what those years had in common?

Philliper and TK: What exactly is a WIP type fan?? You are a MORON. There are some idiots that call there but a vast majority know whats going on. Just because you look at Pro athletes as gods doesn't mean they don't derserve to be told when theya re under performing.

"Why does he cared that the team get booed? Why does he care that after years of busting his hump on the field, fans call him lazy?"

I am going to go to work today and since I worked my ass off for years, I think I should be able to underperform and not work as hard without my boss getting pissed.

HMMMMMM, that makes sense

To paraphrase Lee Elia:
Over 3 million two hundred thousand bleepin front runners come through the turnstiles each year to watch a team with zero post season frickin wins the past 15 years.
Suckers maybe, front runners, no.

@Terry please look at Attendance Records versus Phillies records versus their league ranks.

You will notice the HIGH level of fan attendance is directly related to success of the team.


@Willie -- do you think fans have an impact on the game? One way or the other?

BAP, that story tells it all.

Even if it isn't true, is there anyone who thinks that for that to happen would be out of character with Philly fans?

"I am going to go to work today and since I worked my ass off for years, I think I should be able to underperform and not work as hard without my boss getting pissed."

last time i checked your not the guys boss...

testing

Michael: Last time I checked, Yes We are. Our money pays their salaries genius!!!!!

Charlie, on the offense:

"Recommend something for me. I might try it," manager Charlie Manuel said before last night's game at Dodger Stadium.

Open a Beerleaguer thread (not this one), Charlie, and have a blast.

Are you Phillies fans kidding me??? First of all, you are the biggest front runners on the face of the earth. Ya, you are drawing 3 mill a yr, but EVERY TEAM sells out for the first 5 years after opening a new stadium. The Mets destroy your attendance #s year after year and thats at crumby Shea Stadium. When Citi field opens it will instantly be sold out for the year. The Vet was a ghost town when the Phillies were awful so please dont give me nonsence about 14 straight sell outs and blah blah. It should be hundreds of straight sell outs.

Secondly, Rollins is, has been, and always will be a punk. He didnt deserve the MVP last year and this year is showing his true colors. Sorry, but his inflated citizen bank homerun and rbi #s didnt do it for me last year. If he played at a real stadium he would have had 12 homeruns.

LETS GO METS!

"Guys are working hard," Burrell said. "The desire is there, obviously. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the other team for pitching well."

Ugh. So we've been facing eight weeks of aces? I think the real issue is no Phillies taking responsibility for their own play. Jimmy takes a swipe at the fans, Pat brings up the "constant aces" argument, Charlie acts like he's tried it all to no avail.

Great idea King, since he asked, we'll tell him. Can't be any worse than what he's doing now.

listen you stupid ham and egger. our money pays what a small fraction of what they get. the team makes money a lot of ways other than the 5 tickets a year you buy. so stop using that stupid hackneyed analogy until your on the board of directors.

thanks willie for your insight. i'd stick to the racist comments if i were you pal.

Perhaps Jimmy's intention WAS to enrage and distract fans, putting all the weight on his back and allow the rest of the team a few games "off" to kick it back into gear. He's smarter than the lot of us.

phlipper, please explain to me how philly fans are frontrunners. I don't think you understand the definition of the word.

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EST. 2005

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