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Thursday, August 14, 2008


from last thread:

@PhillR - Actually, separating ERA is More misleading than aggregation. A bullpen pitcher has an effect on the starter's ERA (or the pitcher they replaced). While a starting pitcher does not affect a bullpen's reliever.

When a reliever fails to stop an inherited runner from scoring, that run is charged to the previous pitcher. When in fact both pitchers are culpable for that run. But we don't charge .5 runs to each.

I can't imagine what Rollins is going to say on the program. Maybe he will pull a Chuck Barkley and say something like: "I was misquoted in my own Auto-Biography."

Clearly someone thought those comments were a big deal, whether it was management or Rollins, it got someone's attention. An immediate retraction/clarification is usually not warranted for something that is considered insignificant.

Jimmy Rollins can go to you know where. He said what he thinks and I am done with that guy.

Also I am done with this team. If they had gotten CC they would be 3 games ahead now. Instead they give us Blanton. Come on.

Jason: Is our problem really that we haven't been able to manufacture runs late in games? To me, it's been our inability to score runs against the starting pitchers. As evidenced by the 22 of 45 games stat of scoring 2 or less against the starting pitcher.

But when Blanton has started the Phils have won every game but last night's. But with CC they'd be 3 games up? How does that math work?

I don't want math to get in the way of the point that Blanton has for the most part stunk and CC has been lights out. But thanks for pointing that out.

Splits do matter but the truth is the Phils have three options on the bench right now (Cernavek, Bruntlett, Taguchi) who just don't bring much to the table offensively at all and two other guys (Jenkins and Ruiz) who have pretty much struggled all year.

Right, let's not debate the facts.

JH2, no worries.

I didn't see Blanton last night, but someone described him as Eaton-esque. Can we stop with the Eaton comparisons. Adam Eaton is currently bungling around in the minor leagues. There are probably not 3 pitchers in MLB that are worse than Eaton. Even minor league pitchers are embarrassed for the guy. Blanton is arguably anywhere from the 2nd to 4th best pitcher on the team. Eaton is garbage.

Blanton may not be great, but he is what they have. As it stands, he has two great starts, one not so great start, and one horrible start. He's not CC Sabathia, but nobody thought he was. If the Phillies had Matt Laporta in their minor league organization they could have had CC, but they didn't. Get over it.

Brian: That's certainly true. I bring up the late game stuff because of the late game chess matches with relievers. Thanks for bringing it up because it's a good point. It's all bad.

I don't really think we had what it took to land Sabathia. After dealing Cardenas, we probably didn't even have what it took to get Xavier Nady, sans giving up Carrasco. It's a shallow farm, and they really couldn't give up everything in it just so we could probably get beaten in the NLCS. Our pitching's surprisingly okay; the offense is what's killing us.

Are we waiting for Sept to bring up Benson? If he comes up where will he start?

We traditionally have 1 or 2 guys on the bench, and 1 or 2 guys in the BP, who do not belong in a ML uniform. This year is no different. If major league rosters were cut to 20 tomorrow, our chances of winning would be substantially improved. Heck we wouldn't even notice we were missing 5 guys.

"Are we waiting for Sept to bring up Benson? If he comes up where will he start?"

He's the 8th starter for this team.

If the Phils need another starter the rest of the year, its Happ and then Carrasco. Benson would be #8 on the list.

Of course, if the team continues to strike out and not score runs, its not going to matter who the starters are. They aren't going anywhere anyway.

Benson won't be up unless there's an injury...which is unfortunate for him as he needs some MLB starts to improve his offseason chances of getting a major league deal. Benson starting is badnews for the Phillies.

What is Jhole gonna say to mitigate his stupidity?

Phils need to get Felix out there. Red soxs and Rays looking for 3b.RS also looking for relief help. If Phils aren't going to resign Durbin,maybe they should see what he's worth.

Of course that's Feliz.

Why does being called a frontrunner bother people. Yes I am more interested in my team when they are playing well. You want me to care play better. Plus what is the problem with booing? Fans have done it forever and players need to get over it. I was at the games last year when people were chanting MVP everytime he hit the field. Funny nobody is complaining about that? My problem with Jimmy is that last year was a career year. This is the Jimmy we knew before last year. Not the type of player to take pitches and work a count. He is a really good player but he is not great. If we had a better option at leadoff he would be hitting 2 or 6 in this lineup.

Did anyone else not buy the talk last year of this team coming together around Charlie? I think it was a team getting hot at the right time mixed with the Mets going cold. Charlie gets a contract extension and all his flaws were forgotten. Till the next season when we start to see them resurface. I have no doubt a different manager would improve this team buy at least 3 games.

As for Rollins and fan loyalty, this is an interesting web site.

It purports to track fan loyalty, and has results from 1999-2008. The results I found most fascinating were for our beloved Philadelphia Iggles:

1999: 28th in NFL
2000: 28th
2001: 19th (tie)
2002: not in top or bottom 5
2003: not in top or bottom 5
2004: 4th (tie)
2005: 2nd
2006: 4th
2007: 3rd
2008: 5th

The Phillies?
1999: not in top or bottom 5
2000: not in top or bottom 5
2001:not in top or bottom 5
2002: not in top or bottom 5
2003: 4th (tie)
2004: 5th
2005: not in top or bottom 5
2006: not in top or bottom 5
2007: not in top or bottom 5
2008: not in top or bottom 5

The Flyers were 5th in 2001, 2002, and 2003, 4th in 2004 and 2005, 3rd in 2006, 2007 and 2008 (not in top/bottom 5 for 1999).

Don't ask about the 76ers. Looks like the Flyers fanbase is a HELL of a lot less frontrunning than the Iggles fanbase, with the Phils somewhere in the middle.

jr: Trading Durbin? He's making peanuts... has had a fabulous year... and he's a free agent at the end of the season. What makes you believe he'll clear waivers??

They just aired most of his comments on SportsNite (that are going to be on BDSS)--he explains himself better but he ends up sounding a little bitter. His point is that they are in first so he doesn't understand the booing when they lose (i.e. give them a little slack). While I understand the frustration on his part, this just isn't the time to air these types of viewpoints, considering the teams recent struggles both offensively and now pitching-wise.

He said frontrunner they way he used it is being misconstrued from the way he understands/means it. Phillie fans give off too much negative energy and need to be more supportive to the team. He said it affects the team when they play at home.

Chad Durbin would NEVER clear waivers...that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Only high priced veteran type guys clear waivers.

Advice to JHole: Try RUNNING to 1B when you make contact...

Great point about "cavernous left/right splits." The data puts meat on the bones of what is usually and glibly called "too many one-dimensional players." Given that the Phils are not able to make a major move right now, fixing that problem by upgrading Taguchi, Cervenak, Bruntlett, etc. seems within the realm of possibility.

Rollins also said so long as they win by 1 game that's still winning the, like, whatever.

I have to say that was the part that bothered me the most. Why let it go down to the last game if you can avoid it? Or are you basically saying you aren't a good enough team?

I posted on here this morning that "frontrunner" obviously wasn't the word he meant to use and two or three people had a fit.

Any phans in the Seattle area? I'm in the mountains outside of the city for a conference, but will be spending the night downtown tommorow night. Too much work talk going on, too little phillies chatter. Any Philly sports bars?

Maybe's it THAT complete lack of a killer instinct that the fans find so annoying...The whole team thinks its will win the NL East simply because "They deserve it."

BobbyD: "I posted on here this morning that "frontrunner" obviously wasn't the word he meant to use and two or three people had a fit."

"Frontrunner" is about the most offensive word one can use to describe real sports fans. It evokes the image of those people who decided to root for the Dallas Cowboys when the local team was struggling. It reeks of New York Yankees fans from around the country, who root for the local team when the Yankees aren't good. It is a despicable term to use. It also describes completely the opposite of the typical long-suffering Phillies fan.

Whatever abuse Rollins receives from this, he deserves.

Brian: That's an excellent point about our failures against the other team's starters. In a way it sort of defies conventional wisdom. You'd think we would do BETTER against the starters because Cholly can set his lineup up to take advantage of the lefty-righty matchups. In the late innings, it's the opposing manager who can use his bullpen to dictate the individual matchups.

I would just more generally ascribe the Phillies' problems to a complete inability to hit effective pitching. In the typical game, the starter is reasonably effective because, if he weren't, he wouldn't stay in the game. Relievers are more of a crapshoot because many of them rely on just 1 or 2 pitches; if that pitch isn't effective, they're going to have problems. However, occasionally we see a game like last night's, where the opposing team's starter has nothing and the Phillies light him up. Then the bullpen comes in, gives the Phillies a different look, and completely shuts them down for the rest of the game.

CJ/NEPP: It's best to ignore comments that make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Like trading our best bullpen guy when we're in first place and our bullpen is hanging by a thread.

Murphy has a basic transcript of what Rollins says on tonight's show for anyone who's interested:

It's disappointing seeing last year's MVP slide the way Rollins has this season, but I doubt all or even most of fans were ever "against him." If he wasn't very happy with the way SOME have been treating him though, he's certainly not doing himself any favors with the rest of us by spewing that crap.

At any rate, Jimmy can say whatever he wants, but I don't have to like it.

It hurts so much because he could have basically walked on water for the rest of his Phillies career if he would have just noticably tried every night. The stats last year were nice but he wasn't getting booed this year because he wasn't hitting as well, or because he's black or "ghetto" (whoever said that is an A$$) or whatever...its because he has been lollygagging and looking like he has it on cruise control.

His clarification made some very good points (its clear the Phillies have a decent PR guy) and honestly he hit on some truths but there are some things you don't say on national tv...and this was one of them...Also you NEVER EVER EVER say another teams fans are better...that was what really hurt.

NEPP: Especially St. Louis, which is already a sticking point with Philly fans because of Rolen...and whose fans IMO are stepford fans and completely unnatural. They are the exception, as someone else pointed out earlier today, and not the rule.

Its the Midwest...they're weird. It also helps when you have that many WS records and a history of consistency.

The way Rollins has played and his lack of hustle in the past has certainly rubbed me the wrong way. If the team was on a winning streak and 5 games up in the division, his comments would get half the reaction it has. He likes to talk it up as he did last year and it worked. The fact that he is going back on the show tonight to clarify his comment, shows some remorse on his part. I don't think he would sign a long term deal if he didn't like Philly. I'm hoping some good will come of this and light the fires of this team.

Actually its shows that the Phillies PR dept is smart enough to try and difuse this before he plays again at home. Maybe he meant "frontrunner" differently and maybe he didn't. Personally I think he meant it the way he now says it. The booing does get old at times...but you still don't praise STL fans and bash us.

I don't believe Rollins and most ML players spend as much time discussing being fans and such terms as 'frontrunners' as we do.

They didn't grow up visiting blogs debating trolls, arguing in the office with fans of other teams.

Too busy being ballplayers.

i hope he has time to take some extra bp before the game, he did go 0-5 last night

In this case, I think Rollins truly gave a clarification, because he said exactly what I understood him to be saying last night. The best example is this:

“The whole thing was, look, here we are in the playoffs, we’re at home, we’re in first place. There’s really nothing to boo about. We’re not going to win every game. As long as we win by one when it comes down to the finish. But, go out there and support us. When Carlos Ruiz comes up to the plate, don’t boo him because you want (Chris) Coste in the game. This man has a job to do today. Encourage him to do his job to the best of his abilities.”

You can disagree with Rollins, but he is accurately describing the fans. The Phillies might want encouragement for slumping players, but they're not going to get it.

Well, Mets are going to win tonight, so JRoll won't have to worry about the fans not supporting the first place Phils as they'll be in second as soon as the Mets game ends and will solidify it when they get swept tonight.

I would response to Rollins and ask him how easy is it to cheer for a team that has been handcuffed by their management and manager? How many times do we have to watch Rollins hit a weak pop fly in the midst of a slump? We can cheer Ryan Howard against lefties, but in reality we are cheering for the pitcher to make a mistake because Howard refuses to adjust to how teams are pitching him. It's just so maddeningly frustrating to route for a team that botches fundamentals left and right. Shore up the little stuff and I bet fans will ease up on the boos.

this is philly, we encourage our slumping players with boos. be happy you play in a city that buys tickets to watch you slump.

If anyone really wants to know whats wrong with Jimmy - click on his website:

Listen to song, there are some priceless lines.

Milt should show Howard the picture in this thread, it might help bring his average up.

Hmm, first weather delay (lightening) I've ever seen at an Eagles game.

Someone with some video skills should take Jimmy's comments last night and mix in the MVP song.

Slight change of subject: What does everyone think about Instant Replay being put in place by the end of the month...kinda fast isn't it?

You should never ever change rules in the middle of a season Bud!

I think instant replay is necessary in MLB, but I don't think midseason is the time to implement it. Spring training would make more sense, wouldn't it?

The sooner the better for instant replay. There have been a lot of blown home run calls this year.

Rollins comment scome off much better with the further explaniation.

Kudos to him for not only owning up to it, but not backing away from it either.

Some Phillies fans don't want to hear those words because they are the truth. It hurts.

Rollins is still a good guy, and a good leader, and still unequivocally teh engine for this team. If he gets going down the stretch we win the divison again and most will be forgiven. Despite what some would want you to believe on here

The gNats show a little life. 5-3.

I read best damn transcript and the interview with Phil beat writers. Quite frankly he is on target. His point is we are in first place we aren't going to win every game. Try not to boo before anything happens. Let's give some homefield support, let push for our guys to do well. The most telling thing is how defensive he is of his team-mates: Gordon, Bruntlett, even Ruiz. I like it. That's team, team, team. Who are we most mad at - Eaton sucking this year or the fact that our FO didn't go out and get us someone better than Eaton.

Cheers Jimmy

I think the instant replay is fine. Would it be better if they'd had it ready at the beginning of the season? Yes. But do I want a postseason to be decided with a blown call? No. I think baseball should shake off a little bit of its dust and embrace technology. One less reason for people to say the game is old-fashioned.

Yeah because we've only had a 125 years of baseball free of instant we MUST have it all of a sudden. I have no problem with doing it but you shouldn't change in the middle of a season...its just asking for trouble.

Altrt: Mets bullpen in action. Two men on, one out for the Nats.

Another solid outing for Carrasco tonight: 6 IP, 2 earned runs, 8 strikeouts, 4 walks. In the 3 games since being promoted to AAA, his ERA is 0.48 and he has 22 strikeouts in 18 innings, which is a far better strikeout rate than he has had at any other level.

I find it interesting. Carrasco posts mediocre stats all year long, then goes up to Lehigh Valley & is lights-out. Myers stinks it up all year in the majors, then gets sent down to AAA where he has a few good outings and seemingly turns his season around. Even a journeyman fringe player like Walrond suddenly had a break-out career year at AAA this year. Makes you wonder if maybe the Phillies have the wrong guy as their major league pitching coach.

"Makes you wonder if maybe the Phillies have the wrong guy as their major league pitching coach."

I wonder the same thing about the manager. That Reading team's been underachieving for a couple years now.

Sorry - I thought you were talking about Filer, the minor league pitching coach at Reading.

I wouldn't mind firing Rich Dubee and bringing up the AAA pitching coach. Besides the pitchers BAP mentioned, Happ had/is having a great year for the Iron Pigs, Brian Mazone is having a good year for AAA and Benson is doing well at AAA, something I didn't think would happen.

Our player development is all jacked least according to other teams. See the Gio Gonzalez trade as an example...the White Sox had to have him repeat AA becaues they said he got no instruction the entire year he was at Reading...what does that tell you about our minor leagues?

Apparently the Dodgers just placed Brad Penny on the DL with shoulder inflammation. Gee what a shocker. How many times this year have the Phillies battered a starting pitcher, only to have it revealed the next day that the pitcher was actually injured? This is at least the 3rd or 4th time. If I were the team doctor for a major league baseball team, I wouldn't even bother with MRIs on my pitchers. If I suspected a pitcher was injured, I'd just let him pitch an inning against the Phillies. If he allows a run, the injury is confirmed.

I'm not sure if Reading is under-achieving or if they're just not very good. They've had a few good players on their team this year -- Marson, Donald, Slayden, Golson -- but the rest of their roster is pretty terrible, as is the pitching.

I just can't wait to go to the game on Tuesday night and loudly boo J-roll. I can't wait!

bedrosian's beard:
philly phan livin' in seattle currently...
haven't found a good phils bar, and mlb bars are few... Big Time Brewery is recommended, in the U-district. i guess there are a few real sports bars down by Safeco, but i prefer breweries.

Thanks Geoff.

Dudeer-WA-Thanks, I'll check out the Brewery, that's one I've heard of, so you seconding it, is good!

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