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Wednesday, August 20, 2008


Hmmm, I wonder if Gillick being in the FO the last three seasons has finally had an effect on their aggressive pursuit of their draft picks?

In any case, it is, indeed, nice to see them this successful at signing their draftees.

Hopefully these seeds will bear some fruit in the future.

maybe Gillick with have his HOF legacy with the Phils after all.

Mets signed Al Reyes.

Stros signed Jose Castillo.

Maybe having no chance to acquire CC because they didn't have the prospects lit a fire under them.

AWH: I actually agree with you on this one

"last time I checked it has been since 1980 and what happened to Bowa that year friend? Oh I know, he got hammered by the fans here and he turned around to have a great second half. So booing does work."

OK, mvp, this is a new thread, so it's the last I'm going to argue with you.

But have you personally asked Bowa whether it was the booing that motivated him? Or, did he just revert to the mean that season?

Now, even if Bowa said someplace (and I've yet to see it) that it was the "booing" that "worked" on him that season {yeah, he wasn't intense and self-motivated), do you seriously want to take the position that it constitutes enough of a sample size to conclude that "booing works"?

AWH: Actually Yes, Bowa was interviewed on both ESPN radio and WIP and in both interviews he stated paraphrasing of course that " the fans showed me I wasn't getting the job done so I needed to find a way to correct it and eventually I did"

They won the freaking World Series!!!!!

I am not saying boo a guy to boo. BUT when jimmy opens his mouth and lets garbage come out and he continues to do it. It seems every interview he is bashing the fans more, now about the Free Agents which is false. This town has at least 7 FA's they signed.
Elton Brand, Asante Samuel, Briere, Jason Smith, Richards ( signed 10 yr extension and he played here when the flyers were DEAD LAST), TO

By the way the more jimmy talks bad about the fans and the city the more he slumps. So maybe instead of talking he should just try to get a few hits, is that too hard for the MVP to do, J ROLL or is it J STROLL these days?


Not to nit-pick, but Jason Smith is not longer on the Flyers, Richards was a draft pick and TO was a trade ...

If I'm GM, we're targeting ground ball pitchers, contact hitters and speed. We have enough guys who are non-contact, all-or-nothing hitters. In Citizens Bank, a contact hitter with average power will hit HRs. Enough with the Jenkins and Feliz type. The Phils won't win a ring with this type of all-or-nothing offense.

I'd actually rather have David Ross than Castillo. Their batting average is about the same but Ross's OBP is about .100 higher and his has more power. Plus with Feliz coming back we don't need another infielder. I would like to see the Phils get another outfielder to replace Taguchi though.

The Phillies should have tried to get Reyes, he could have replaced Walrond right now or Seanez. I don't know how healthy he is though, he may help the Mets pen but he could also hurt them if he is still feeling effects from his injury.

Jason, THAT is an excellent point.

Also, as they are not leaders but followers, maybe they took a look arounf MLB and noticed that the teams with the best farm systems also behaved this way when it came to drafting and signing players.

Jmarr: Yes I meant Hatcher my fault, Richards I said signed a 10 yr extension not a FA and obviously he must love it here if he signed a 10 yr deal and TO was a draft pick but he hand picked the Eagles to go to if you remember he was traded to Baltimore and VETOED it and ended up here.

Does Ed Wade claim everybody?

philsphan, agreed on Castillo. I too would like to see Ross and I wouldn't mind seeing Weathers as long as it costs little in the way of prospects.

mvp - just giving you a hard time - funny part about the Flyers fans are that they are "as close to" St. Louis Cardinal fans as we have in this city .... they love that team and compared to some other rather awful places to play NHL hockey in this country - Philly really is a destination city for a hockey player after Toronto, Detroit, Montreal etc. ---

"Jon Pettibone, a talented high school right-hander and Scott Boras client who passed on pitching for USC in favor of a $500,000 bonus, plus an undisclosed amount reserved for education."

I can only imagine what it's like to be that lucky. My big decision tonight will be which kind of beer I pop open after work. This kid choose between a free education at USC in beautiful SoCal and a half million dollars to play pro baseball. Think about having that choice.

pfReed: I agree that Weathers would be a good pick up. Like Reyes he is older, but Weathers is having a very good year and has a lot of experience. He also could probably be had fairly cheaply.

jmarr: Your right the flyer fans including you and myself I am assuming are very loyal. But the Flyer fans are the same as phillie fans, they boo when they don't like something.

I remember Biron getting booed after letting up a 5 goal game. Also they got booed after getting their butts kicked against Pittsburgh in the playoffs.

So why can Eagles, Sixers and Flyers take it but the Phillies cant?

Maybe it's no concidence that on average the Flyers are the most successful franchise in this city over time. They certainly have had the fewest number of down years.

But I guess staying on track with this thread. Yea for Draft Signings Whoooooooo!

@mvp... wow I didn't realize Asante Samuel played baseball too.


just plain wow.

The Flyers also have a front office like the Yankees. They want a player, they get him. Unfortunately they've wanted the wrong players.

mvp: Maybe because those franchises try harder (at least lately) to put the best team on the field possible?

Perhaps the Phillies frustrations are just as misplaced as ours? We should both be mad at the ownership and not one another.

bobbyD: Yea I know why, because their owners spend their money wisely even though they are on a cap. Snider will pay luxery tax is need be to win. And he doesnt care about making money before winning.

Money can be spent, Glory is Forever.

Maybe the other owners should get clued in about that one.

I think one reason its harder for the Phils than the Flyers is that the dollar difference between the mega-money teams (Yanks, Bosox, Mets) and the rest of the league is a lot bigger in the MLB. I haven't done the math, but I'm guessing that sort of gulf doesn't exist in the NHL. Smaller pond.

Michael Jack: If the salary cap did not exist in the NHL, Snyder would spend like Steinbrenner. Believe me. That's why they get slack.

Phils ownership has no one to blame but themselves for not taking control of the city when they are the sole source of baseball here. All those years when the Eagles were horrible they should have seized the opportunity. Instead they ran it like a Mom & Pop and cut too many costs for so long, they are still digging themselves out after 25 years.

Bobby wrote; "This kid choose between a free education at USC in beautiful SoCal and a half million dollars to play pro baseball. Think about having that choice."

USC is a private university with a pretty hefty tuition. The NCAA limits schools to a small number of full scholarships. The number is small, something like 11 or 12. Since a baseball team roster is much higher, schools like USC try to recruit players with rich parents or they split the scholarships up, for example, giving 24 player half scholarships. Private universities find it tough to compete against state schools with subsidized low tutions. The difference in money a student has to come up with to match a half scholarship at a state school like LSU compared to the incremental money needed to go to USC is substantial. Pettibone was probably comparing paying USC for half his education or taking money from Philadelphia and playing in Lakewood instead of Hollywood. To me it would be a no brainer. Take the money!

I hear Feliz got called up and Walrond sent down. Feliz should be on the bench for tonight's game in CBP.

Good post JW, this is like Mythbusters: The Phillies Edition. This should cut message traffic by 10% now that we can alleviate some of the Soviet-like "our owners are capitalist running dogs!" messages. :-)

Doubleh: I agree with you the Phils have been terribly managed for most of their history. I'm not making excuses for the past 25, or 100 years. In today's game, having 3 teams with twice the budget and unlimited spending ability vs. the rest of the league makes it inherently unfair.

I'd still like to see more polished players come out of these drafts. It's a lot of talented bodies, but from the scouting reports, a lot of raw bodies.

Oh, snap. Lidge on DNL just said Philly fans are way more intelligent that Houston fans.

Said he had no problem coming to Philly because he was booed plenty in Houston.

I can't wait for this stupid booing thing to go away. Phillies fans proved last night how much of a jackass they can be by relentlessly booing J-Roll (and, No, I'm not talking about you). Hopefully they got it out of their system and they can go back to just being mildly obnoxious about their booing (and, No, I'm not talking about you).

Alright beerleaguers, quick: best place in old city/washinton square/south street area to watch the game tonight. I was thinking of taking my buddy to Locust Bar, though I've never been there for a game...

The worst thing about all of this is that it takes focus away from the real issue and that is the p*ss poor play of the Phillies offense.

Blanton's and Kendrick's last 2 starts could have been better, too.

Let's stop navel gazing and focus on the task at hand, which is (hopefully) getting the offense back on track and October ball. We can't rely on everyone on the Mets going on the DL...

@southstreet -- paddy whacks or kildaires

@washingtonsquare-ish -- irishpub 12th and walnut

@oldcity -- i like Rotten Ralphs or Nicks Roast Beef for Phillies games.

LocustBar is fine. If you are over there, I'd go to Fox and hound or McGillins is always a good choice (although wed night is karaoke night which helps or hurts depending on your idea.)

doubleh: Maybe J-Roll is dumb like a fox. He's taken on the brunt of the fan's wrath and many have begun to ignore all the other issues. Now THAT's leadership!

CJ: I hear you and I'd love that if it were true, but then why the multiple benchings this season? It doesn't seem likely that this was his goal. More likely just born out of frustration IMO.

This booing conversation is complete media fabrication. I have never seen any less consequential topic discussed on this blog.

I propose an offshoot of "Campaign Cheer." How about Smart Boos (generally the case with Phillies fans IMO). Boo only those that genuinely deserve it. I have a few candidates: any mention of WIP at the stadium, ESPN, FOX Sports, Comcast, etc. or any of their primary sponsors. Also include Anheiser Busch, Coors Brewing, Miller Brewing, etc. Boo Citizens Bank for selling alcohol to the fans.

They are the ones who perpetuate/contribute the stereotype. If you are mad about the idea that Philly fans are considered boo morons, then express discontent with those truly responsible. Sure, fans boo, but if booing Santa Clause wasn't mentioned every time Philly fans are discussed in the media, then that conception would not exist, or at least would be less significant. I forget which team it was that their fans stormed the field during 10 cent beer night in the 1970's. Why is that not a permanent stain on the reputation of those fans? It is the same alcohol fueled madness that is the source of the Philly booing.


Ten Cent Beer Night was a Cleveland Indians promotion. Game was called early due to a riot. That was in 1974.

Disco Demolition Night was a Chicago White Sox promotion which also lead to a riot and forfeit. That was in 1979. Wikipedia reports that actor Michael Clarke Duncan was one of the first fans on the field at that game and slid into third base.

Also... OF Rusty Torres was at both of those games as a player.

Add any mention of "bandbox" or "launchpad" to the list, because there's no physical reason that home runs are easier to hit in CBP.

Did anyone go to "backwards day"? That was the weirdest promotion I've ever heard of, by far.

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