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Wednesday, August 20, 2008


JW did a nice job of pointing out the idiosyncracies of Phils' fans but the reality is that there are a minority (but sizable) number of jacka$$ses who will boo at the drop of a hat. It is true in Philly as it is in several large sports town in America (Chicago, NYC, Boston, etc).

Its funny but I still think Jenkins has one "warm/hot" stretch in his this season too if he gets to play a bit more often against RHP.

The question is this - it is a streak where he hits decently only for about 10 days or stays relatively productive for a sustained stretch of 3-4 weeks like he did late May/early June?

MG: You are correct. The idiots are going to be idiots, regardless of the team or the standings.

As an aside, I have this feeling that the Rollins hubbub is going to die down considerably today. Why?

Kevin Curtis is out with sports hernia for an indefinite amount of time. He will have surgery. Bad, bad news for the Eagles who's only decent wide receiver is now on IR. Welcome to the jungle, DeSean. Hope you're ready to carry the load.

+1 for Phillies fans (like me) who are sick of hearing about the Jimmy non-story. As we all well know, anything Eagles trumps the Phillies. On this today, I'm actually OK with it.

I don't live in the Philadelphia area any more. Can someone who goes to the games on a regular basis give me their guess as to what percentage of the fans boo needlessly?

I assume the Rollins supporters are not looking for an outright ban on booing -- just purposeless booing.

So, I'm curious. Are 75% or more of the fans vocally mistreating this team?

My guess is that a loud, ill-mannered minority is being used to tar an entire, passionate fan base. And that is what I object to most.

MG, we agree about the jacka$$e$.

I stand by my position that their booing means they lack a basic understanding of the game.

Re: Jenkins...I don't care who Chollie plays as long as they hit.

Charlie has been ripped on this board for being too conventional - for not thinking outside of the box.

Last night Charlie penciled Werth into the lineup against a RHP.

Werth won the game against a RHP.

Chalk one up to Charlie for thinking outside of the box.

Harmon: You are correct, there is a SMALL minority that boo needlessly. Kinda like the guy at the football game that yells/cheers every single play.

The ones that boo all the time are the same people that go to the games more for the dollar dogs than to watch the team.

By the way this rollins thing is making me naucous and needs to blow over, but rollins will go 0 for 4 again tonight and make another stpuid unintelligent comment.

mvp, Rollins hit the ball hard last night, so I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the opposite:

Rollins goes 3-4 with a HR, 3R, 2 ribbies, and a SB.

AWH: so let me get this straight.

"I stand by my position that their booing means they lack a basic understanding of the game."

Booing is ok as long as it is deserved. Like if rollins goes 0 for 4 again tonight then boo the hell out of him or howard strikes out for number 165 on the yr boo him, but do not boo for an out the first bat of the game which the fans usually do not until Rollins opened his mouth.

And if you think there is no room for booing then you are a jacka$$, as You would put it.

Educate yourself on the boo, maybe i can teach you something today. Here ya go straight from Wikipedia:

Booing is the act of showing displeasure for someone or something, generally an entertainer, by loudly yelling "Boo" (and holding the "oo" sound)

In sports, booing is quite common, both at players after poor play (or if the opposing team is being unsportsman like, such as intentionally hitting home team batters in baseball) or referees/umpires after an unpopular ruling.

AWH: he has been hitting the ball hard for the last 15 ABS before the Dodger series and look how well that turned out for him. I hope your right though, i really do

Some more players who have cleared waivers that might help the Phillies:

David "Stormy" Weathers- only owed 610K the rest of the year and has been great since the beginning of June

Kevin Millar- only owed about 700K the rest of the year and would give them some pop off the bench.

I heard boos for Rollins whenever he touched the ball last night. I don't have a problem with booing after he G'sIDP in a key situation but I hate booing for the sake of booing.

Let's go for win #3 in a row tonight and gain some ground on the Mets after they lose to Atlanta. Go Phils!

We get Madux, Manny and the Dodgers next- so let's go get the Nats .
It's not gonna get easier.

Mike Cunningham, I agree with everything you say. I'm not saying that booing is right, I'm just giving my observations of why it happens in Philadelphia...and New York and Boston and Cleveland and Chicago.

I proudly wear my Phillies "colors" when I attend away Phillies games. The Philly booing reputation never even enters my mind. I can only control my own behavior. I try to be courteous to all around me at games. It makes the game better when the guy next to you roots for the other team. I cheer for good things and I will boo the umpire or a bad managerial move or a strikeout in a key situation. I will also cheer my team as the batter steps up to the plate and I will applaud good play by the opponents. As such, I am an ambassador for all Phillies fans when I attend Phillies games in enemy parks. I have been limited in my travels, but I have seen the Phils play in Houston, Atlanta and Shea Stadium.

David Weathers is still around? He was old and tired 10 years ago..

Not really related to todays topic but I saw some nice mentions of Phillies prospect on Baseball Prospectus today;

Michael Taylor, OF, High-A Clearwater (Phillies)
Taylor began the year with a .361/.441/.554 line at Low-A Lakewood which created a mixed reaction. At six-foot-six and 250 pounds, Taylor looks like a potential monster, but at the same time he's 22 years old and coming of of a highly disappointing three-year career at Stanford that left scouts scratching their heads. Moved up to the Florida State League in mid-June, Taylor continues to bump up his stock by mashing in a much tougher offensive environment, most recently by delivering multi-hit games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday to raise his batting line for the Threshers to .342/.392/.546 in 53 contests. There are still questions about what it all means, since both his age and the three-year hole he dug himself in Palo Alto are a lot to make up for in some people's minds, but the further this goes, the more his doubters fall by the wayside.

Travis D'Arnaud, C, Low-A Lakewood (Phillies)
During the first half of the season, I felt a little foolish for ranking D'Arnaud ahead of Lou Marson going into the season. While Marson has had a breakout year and is now catching for the Olympic squad, D'Arnaud has certainly kept up his end of the bargain. After batting .309/.371/.463 in the New York-Penn League, the 19-year-old spent his first weekend of full-season baseball over the last three days by going 6-for-13 with a pair of doubles. Athletic and projectable, D'Arnaud has plus defensive tools and above-average power potential. While plenty of teams don't have a single decent catching prospect, the Phillies have two very good ones.

mvp (btw, you are correct to use lower case), other than allowing you to express yourself like a mindless lemming or uneducated, spoiled, querulous (you'll have to look up that word, I know) child, in the instances you referenced ["rollins goes 0 for 4 again , howard strikes out for number 165"] , what purpose does the booing serve other than to make yourself look ignorant about the game? (Quoting wikip. doesn't cut it).

Seriously, last night was Rollins the only player ever to go 0-4? Is Howard the only guy to ever strike out?

Do you expect a player to succeed every time he's at the plate?

If not, then how often do you expect a player to succeed?

Does he deserve to be booed every time he's not successful?

Do you boo a Phillies' player every time he's unsuccessful?

If not, please explain in clear logic how you differentiate between the times "it is deserved" and the times it is not?

Maddux in his earlier start in CBP went 6 1/3, 3 ER, with the loss.

Bruntlett did some damage against him, so he's not infallible away from pitching paradises on the West Coast.

AWH, it's deserved whenever someone is not playing up to their expectations, hence the boos this year for Howard, and the boos in the past for Burrell, and the rampant boos for Randy Johnson for his one year stint on the Yankees. Why don't you become a St. Louis fan if you're so against it that you resort to condescending, arrogant posts aimed at a fellow Phillies fan.

"While plenty of teams don't have a single decent catching prospect, the Phillies have two very good ones."

Well, color me amazed at that.

It's too bad they haven't had as much success in the past with pitching prospects. It would have negated the need to trade for Freddie Garcia or sign Adam Eaton.

East F- That was a great game Maddux vs. Moyer the other night- really enjoyed it.
I hope we light him up , but he sure pitched well last time.

"it's deserved whenever someone is not playing up to their expectations"

Really, TK....and what are those expectations?

Do you expect a hit every time Howard comes to the plate?

Do you expect the same of Burrell?

Do you boo them if they don't live up to your "expectations"?

You obviously feel you have a defensible argument, so please answer, I'm interested in your viewpoint. You may yet sway me.

"he's not infallible away from pitching paradises on the West Coast."

True. Maddux has a 5.75 ERA away from Petco and a .835 OPS against.

AWH: I am a child because I am sick of jimmy having his head so far up his own backside he can't play anymore!

He doesn't hustle and get benched what does he do? Complain

He shows up late and what does he do? Compalin and say the manager is wrong

Then, he goes on National TV like a cool guy and insults the fans and what do 75% of fans do? AGREE WITH HIM!

So to answer your question:

Seriously, last night was Rollins the only player ever to go 0-4? Is Howard the only guy to ever strike out? No but Rollins is now 5 for 33 and Howard struck out 165 times, thats deserves boos!

Utley, doesn't deserve to be booed because he works his butt off every play of every game, opposed to rollins who take plays off

AWH: Stop asking the same questions to every person who disagrees with you. It is a waste of space you are using.

mvp, is Rollins the only player ever to go through a 5 for 33 spell?

Does every player who goes through a 5-33 or 0-27 (remember Utley?) deserve to be booed?

Just curious?

mvp, you've made my point for me, even if you don't realize it.

I appreciate your characterization of the Philly fans J. Do you think that there are some deep-seated racial biases that explain how hard these folks have been on Rollins and Howard this year?

It pisses me off that there are players available (via waivers) that would give this team a boost and the Phils' owners just refuse to spend another damn dime this season.

Well, if this team doesn't make the playoffs and the Phils miss out on the playoff revenue (along with a chance to slide another fat ticket increase along), they will look pretty penny wise and pound foolish for saving another $1M or so in players' salaries.

This is what I don't get about this management - it is not they are "cheap" per se. It is that they do a piss poor job of maximizing potential revenues. That is the worst sin.

I'm not speaking for the fans who booed everything last night, because I like you don't think it's right to boo every single time.

But I've certainly booed

*Pat Burrell in years where the expectation was he would be the best hitter on the team, and it seemed like he was striking out looking once every 3 at bats and was awful in the clutch.

*Jose Mesa when the expectation was he could save a game at least somewhat consistently and never did.And especially when he put the nail in the coffin of any possible comeback in game 2 of last year's NLDS. The expectation there was he could get 3 outs, very small given that he sucks, and he still couldn't even do that. Hence the booing (and even a MESA SUCKS chant, which was funny and depressing at the same time).

I've booed other teams and players in other sports, too, always when they are not meeting expectations.

That's fine if you want to criticize the booing of last night. But don't make this sweeping generalization that anyone who boos has no knowledge of the game. In fact, Philly, New York and Boston fans are among the best there are in knowledge of the sports they watch.

Its funny - Rollins is having a year offensively that is a big falloff from last year but still in line with his career numbers. Plus, defensively he still a very solid glove to the table.

Howard has been a big disappointment. If he somehow manages to lead the league in HRs and RBIs with a sub .800 OPS (which is possible), it will have be viewed as a very one-dimensional season. An .800 OPS for a 1B just isn't very good and it is a big falloff from even last year.

Mets signed Al Reyes.

@mvp -- Rollins didn't complain in his first benching. He agreed with the manager on that one.

When the Mets fans booed Johan Santana in his first start for them at Shea I thought, hey, I wonder if we're that bad. We boo an Eaton or a Blanton, but they don't have the track record Santana has.

TK, you've made my point for me as well.

Thank you!

AWH: YES! I booed utley but not as bad because he works hard every day unlike rollins who acts like he is ABOVE the team.

And good if I made your point. I am not going to not boo players like you because I so not still idolize them and have their posters on my bedroom walls like you do.

I want to win because last time I checked it has been since 1980 and what happened to Bowa that year friend? Oh I know, he got hammered by the fans here and he turned around to have a great second half. So booing does work. And if that is what jimmy needs a good kick in the pants, i.e. booing then that is what he will get.

Yo, new thread.

MG, I agree.

Probably the worst thing that could happen now, unfortunately, is Rollins picks up the pace. The boobirds will be vindicated in their 'minds' and will go after players even more.

AWH: You are wrong, i disagree 100%.

Just a question, When is it ok to boo for Rollins then?

Maybe if he says the fans are cheap for not buying his jersey? Nah you will still cheer him most likely

Maybe if he says that he deserves more money and is holding out? You will cheer for him then too

When is enough enough with this guy?

AWH, go root for the Cardinals. You clearly don't belong as a Philly sports fan.

Prediction for tonight : More booing

As bad as the misplaced jeering is, equally bad is pointing the finger at those that boo and telling them they are classless. Pointing out a lack of class in other people is, in fact, classless in its own right.

"As bad as the misplaced jeering is, equally bad is pointing the finger at those that boo and telling them they are classless. Pointing out a lack of class in other people is, in fact, classless in its own right. "

If you had seen the people the Washington broadcast showed last night, you may think otherwise. There is nothing wrong with pointing out classless behavior.

Now mvp is making up stuff about Rollins?

Or is it Parker in disguise

GoPhilsGo: It is only because it is rooted in hypocrisy. Glass houses and all that stuff. It's like the Mets fans who have been all over Phils sites telling Phils fans how classless they are in light of Rollins' statements. You don't see the irony in that?

Tell people to calm down, sure, and reajust their expectations/approach. But to declare yourself superior is a bit high-horsed. Just my opinion. I believe that only your maker (whoever that may be) has the right to judge you.

Oh, snap. Lidge on DNL just said Philly fans are way more intelligent that Houston fans.

Said he had no problem coming to Philly because he was booed plenty in Houston.

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