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Tuesday, August 19, 2008


I usually hate people who do this, but I'm going to repeat my point from the previous thread:
Billy "the rat" Wagner will stay on the DL a little bit longer, and may miss the rest of the season according to Yahoo. Aaron Heilman will continue closing games for the Mets in the short term..

Want some good news regarding our record right now? Since we're worse than the Mets, we can prevent pitchers like Brian Fuentes from being claimed by NY should they get to us!

I think the waiver-block-placement was the plan all along.

Just want to voice some support for J-Roll. The guy is as good as they come at short, and I have no doubt that his bat will come alive down the stretch. If not, we're in trouble.

Howard is a different story. He doesn't look like a player who'll age well to me, and I think the phils should think hard about trying to move him in the off season. If they can get a serious offensive prospect and add some pitching depth to the farm system, I'd be all for it.

Heilman is closing for the Mets? I guess he is their best option. Really not a good situation for them. I am feeling pretty confident in the Phillies post season hopes after hearing that.

JCD: You are skeptical on Howard's bat coming back, despite the fact that he is way way below career norms; but you are confident in Rollin's bat "coming alive" despite the fact that he has played at career norms all season?

I think you have it wrong. Howard is slumping, but Rollins is playing just like the real Rollins.

Rollins career ops+: 98. Current: 96
Howard career ops+: 140. Curren: 104

If we should expect anyone to "come alive" its Howard.

This whole boo story is getting old. I understand that we have the right to boo since we are paying ticket holders. Booing shows our dissatisfaction for poor play. Booing is a Philly tradition. The more I think about it Rollins is right in what he has expressed about home fans. We should support our players more with some positive energy. I'm not suggesting praising every play whether good or bad, just less booing. These players want to win as much as we want them to win. IMO most fans at home games just boo along because thats what we do here and there is a "toughest fans" reputation to uphold. And you better believe that even the Philly players that you're not booing are saying under thier breath, "boo? fu?k you!"

Rollins' career OPS+ is distorted a bit by his early (ages 21-24) seasons. Since 2004

04: 102
05: 97
06: 101
07: 118
08: 96

What's more apparent than OPS+ though is his big drop in BA and OPS.

04: .289/.803
05: .290/.770
06: .277/.811
07: .296/.875
08: .266/.764

07 was probably a career year, but 08 is a down year for Rollins regardless.

It's a tired topic.

In honor of Carson:

Rah rah ree
kick'em in the knee!
Rah rah rass
kick'em in the
other knee!

Blanton's HR rate since joining the Phils is certainly a concern. He's got to get that under control. 1-0 Nats is not a good start... and will make it harder to have those cheers when Rollins comes to the plate.

I dunno about you guys but I heard a few boos in the background when Jimmy picked up that ground ball and threw out Zimmerman at first..

No question, Wank, both booing and Jimmy Rollins are a tired topic. PhillR is a constant distorter of Rollins' record, however. Rollins is having his worst season in the last 5 years. The only one to come close, 2005, his BA was 24 points higher.

there you go. jimmy booed the second he touched the ball.

I heard it too, diggity.

Howard will probably lead the NL in homers and steaks at season's end. He has productive years ahead, of course, but at his price, he's not a good long-term bet in my view. He's hit well with runners in scoring position this year, despite all the demoralizing strike outs, but I don't see him figuring out left-handed pitching or improving much in the field over the course of his career, which figures to be relatively brief.

Hope this is not an insurmountable lead.

Evidently, he's going to get killed when he comes to the plate because he just got some on that ground ball. I hope that's the end of it.

Comcast SportsNet really botched that one. They didn't go to the commercial to get the fan reaction and then they overlap the reaction with audio from another useless interview. Well done.

Ridiculous to boo that swing. Morons.

Yep... Rollins proved right. What a bunch of jackasses.

It's like they revel in this assinine reputation Philly fans have. While the rest of the country laughs at us, we're proud that we boo for stupid reasons.

The bigger concern, in my view, is- can we score a run tonight?

That was as representative of Rollins' season as a GB to the right-side. His LD% is over 3% higher than last year although his BABIP is 20 points lower.

Franske and LA just had a nice laugh at Carson's expense- "Where did Jimmy find these guys?"

Sophist: That is the strange part. Can it really be just bad luck?

Wanks, yep. complete idiots

CJ: Rollins doesn't "prove right". If he doesn't say anything last week about Phillie fans, the fans at the ballpark either don't say anything positive or negative, or they might even cheer for a hard-hit ball and good swing.

But like Wanks said, can the Phillies finally hit this amateur bergmann who they can never seem to solve??

I have a hard time saying that Rollins struggles are predicated on bad luck. Those are interesting numbers, but when you watch this team day in and day out you get the feeling that he isn't "just missing."

Blanton looks great, too.

diggitydave: Sorry... if you disagree, but the actions of the fans speak for themselves. Especially after he ripped that ball.

CJ - I don't know but I don't think so. For one, I'm not sure what a normal BABIP is for his LD% (Dave X usually know this). Also, his GB% is way up. 10% from last year and easily the highest of his career. His infield fly rate is also way up so his FB are way down. And then his HR/FB is his lowest since 2005. Not pretty. The only thing sustaining his OBP is his BB% -- easily a career high.

Oh, Joey Bland

so far it sounds pretty quite there, besides jimmy getting booed.

Sophist: Thanks. It's just strange for a LD% to go up but a BABIP to go down since your line drives have the greatest chance of being hits. Although infield flies don't generally result in hits!

Of course, the hypothetical situation "if he never said what he said" is irrelevant now.
The only thing that matters is the here and now, and that it was ridiculous to boo a solid effort and a well-hit ball by Jimmy.

I hate the Nats announcers. Though I did get a chuckle when they just said "The Bermann shift pays off again."

Blanton lucky to get out of that one unscathed. He better start pitching better or this will be a long game!

It's frustrating to see them 1.5 back. And it's frustrating that they are 5 games under .500 since June 13th. I think what's really frustrating, however, is that if they fall behind to the Nationals by a couple of runs early, you seriously question their ability to come back. A loss is a loss, but the way they have lost the last 2 months almost numbs you a little bit.

Hopefully the start of this homestand turns that around. I think we can all agree that we just want these last 6 weeks to be fun. Right now, nobody is having fun. I'm sure not.

wow, could not believe rollins got booed on the first ground ball he got. at least the fans didnt boo him on that second one.

the radio broadcast also came in late and missed the crowd reaction to rollins. that had to have been on purpose..

Bergmann that is.

Glad they booed. Jimmy is a diva jackass and has let the mvp get to his head when holliday deserved it more than him.

If he wants the booing to stop tell his teammates to play better, if not go to st louis or oakland where they don't give a damn.

While I am on st louis that team is loaded with talent including 3 yes 3 number one pitchers and look what the cheering has given them nothing but a sinking ship.

CJ - one thing is clear. This year is *not* typical Rollins as some argue. The only way that can be argued is by taking seasons before he turned 24 into account and using solely OPS+.

Blanton saved by the pitcher. Good work jamming the prior batter, however.

CJ- while I don't disagree the booing there was ridiculous, it does not PROVE anything; they are booing because of what JRoll said, not because they are "frontrunning fans"

also, i think i saw Carson on Sportsnite. he was pumping up Campaign Cheer.

so much for that. :)

Ghost: Look at it any way that makes you feel better about Phils fans booing like idiots. Exhibit A: mvptommyd

There is the plus side of Victorino at the bottom of the lineup.

Dear T-Mac:


Vic is easy to cheer for. Let's go Dobbs!

Pretty big at bat early in the game for Dobbs.

Hibachi is absolutely right. The perception that the Phillies fans boo their own and the Red Sox and Yankee's don't is a complete fallacy, based completely on stereotype and speculation.

Bostonians have many stereotypes (I'm not lending any credibility to them, merely using as an example) and much of them are a lot worse than a reputation for booing.

mvp - st louis fans don't give a damn? Baseball is the #1 sport in STL. 3 #1 pitchers? The Cards do have three pitchers with more than 20 starts and ERA+ over 100, but they aren't that far over 100. In fact, Jamie Moyer has pitched better this year than all of them. So if the Cards have 3 #1 pitchers the Phils have at least 2.

I didn't get to see Victorino hit that or Harry make the call because friggin' Mccarthy was repeating the same crap for the 5th time about the Nationals' defense.

Still, I gotta say I'll take anyone over the Miller/Morgan dream team on ESPN..

interesting interpretation of st. louis, mvptommy. Most would say that they've overachieved all year...and they did win the world series two years ago, so...

If Cholly's gonna stick Mr. MVP in the leadoff spot, then I must again say how much I love having Vic in the six hole.

what a slide, Ryno!

That should be "much of which"

I wonder if Bruntlett gets that run in like Dobbs just did..


Lohse: 107
Looper: 104
Wellemeyer: 112

Kendrick 2007: 119

Was Kendrick a #1 pitcher last year?

If you listen to Harry, the Phillies offense has been effected by the wind more than any team in the history of baseball.

"Must have been the wind. Had to be the wind."

Many well hit balls on both side tonight. That wind is keeping things sane.

Well, back to even. Blanton better start dealing. Have fun chatting up the game tonight... see you tomorrow!

As for Bostonians and their booing, I wonder if Bill Buckner would agree with the perception that Boston does not boo their own players. Something tells me that he and his family might have a bit of a different story to tell.

Sophist: I said they will cheer no matter what. Not that they don't give a damn.

And yes they won the ws 2 years ago I am glad you mentioned that. What did the fans do to scott rolen in game 1 at his very first at bat in the ws at HOME. I will tell you, they booed him. That's great fans there. What do the new york knicks fans do every year at the nba draft. I will tell you, they boo the pick EVERY YEAR, watch the tapes. But philly fans get in trouble for booing a guy who they adored last year and he stabs them in the back and called them frontrunners and yet I am the bad guy for being along with obviously the other 45,000 there and booed.

So for all you guys who think you are "better" fans because you never boo your players, your not.and also it doesn't just happen here.

Only a moron would bat the most consistent (and fastest) hitter on the team 6th.

I lived in Boston in the early '90s. I went to Fenway, and I was sitting along the left field lines. The fans verbally assaulted Mike Greenwell nonstop when he was in the field.

harry's making it sound like they're playing in a hurricane.

Philly fans and booing is nothing but a tired stereotype. Because of the perpetuation of the story by the media, they have embraced the idea. Booing has become a way of distinguishing themselves and because of the media, it has become "the story." Blame the media, not the fans.

If you want evidence of obsessive media coverage, look no further than Brett Favre.

rollins better have a good night, he's getting the rolen treatment.

Heard lots of boos there.

Also just to remind you guys alfonso soriano was companining about the boos at wrigley and it got so bad that he wanted security to kick out any fan that did boo him, which they did by the way. Look it up.

Also I believe jimmy is 2 for his last 23. Can we boo yet?????????

Also just to remind you guys alfonso soriano was companining about the boos at wrigley and it got so bad that he wanted security to kick out any fan that did boo him, which they did by the way. Look it up.

Also I believe jimmy is 2 for his last 23. Can we boo yet?????????

And as far as those "perfect Cub fans", tell that to Steve Bartman. He is not a player, but being run out of your hometown by a bunch of idiots qualifies as "classy" in my book.

Seriously, the Philly booing argument is ridiculous.

I booed Pat for his failure to get the beach ball in the stands on the first try.

Also, I blame obsessive media coverage for the Bartman situation. If he wants to target anyone for the misconception that he caused Alou to miss that ball, he should start with ESPN.

Boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo


Parker - If the media is blame for everything, what are the masses whose behavior they determine? The media is supported by its listeners, and they aren't mindless to its messages.

When ESPN constantly tells you one thing, where are you to find evidence of the other side of the story? FOX Sports? They did the same thing.

If the fans did anything other than make Bartman's life miserable, it would be in spite of, rather than because of the media coverage.

maybe if the fans were cheering blanton he wouldnt be giving up so many hits


I love having Jon Lieber back.

Blanton is really dealing again.

Don't worry, the offense is good for AT LEAST 3 tonight.

Blanton's not long for this game. I'm liking me that JA Happ.

Is it just me or is this whole pitch count thing really annoying?

Parker - The Bartmann story isn't a complicating economic or political issue which calls for the expertise of professionals. Cubs fans, and most baseball fans, witnessed that game themselves and can easily interpret what happened and who was to blame. If people blamed Bartmann, they did so of their own volition. They aren't enslaved to ESPN.

And doesn't ESPN run a program that removes Bartmann from blame? I've seen it before.

Sophist: Also, I hardly believe that the public sets the agenda of the mass media. I don't think that the people of Chicago asked ESPN and FOX to present Bartman as the culprit of the loss. Bartman causing the Cubs to lose was much more sensational, and therefore much more appealing and entertaining. Bartman's interest and the truth be damned.

nice stab, howard.

Bergmann just had the worst at bat I've seen all year.

Thank god Bergmann comes up every 9 guys.

Sophist: Yes, ESPN runs the contrary story about 4 or 5 years later. Bartman was the fall guy in almost every story at the time.

I'm actually tired of the Rollins story as well, but it seemed like this should be passed along. Its from his interview before the game: "And he again talked about how booing has, in the past, affected some of his teammates to the point where "they're halfway defeated before they get up there" to the plate.

He also added that potential free agents have come up to him in the past and asked about the Philadelphia fans and said things, "Most of 'em, you can't repeat." Rollins said that players have said they don't want to put their families into this kind of situation, "That's just the truth."

I'm just listening on the radio, but that last inning sounded pathetic.

I don't know why they don't put the shift on for Burrell as well. When's the last time he hit a groundball to the right side?

Are the Phils under the impression that "Hittin' Season" was over on June 15th and won't resume until next year?

It looked pathetic, too,

Operation Whiff.

boo boo boo

Ribbies: depends who these free agents are. Could be stiffs for all we know.

But elton brand, asante samual, mike richards, peter forsberg, brian westbrook, brad lidge along with other superstars don't mind the fans.

So once again who cares what rollins says. At this point he moves his mouth and nothing comes out. I wish he can start hitting as good as he speaks.

Sophist: If you don't believe that the media's shaping/interpretation of the issues affects public perception, I don't suggest that you apply for a position in the McCain or Obama campaigns. I believe that they will tell you different.

"Bartman causing the Cubs to lose was much more sensational, and therefore much more appealing and entertaining."

So the media was to blame for fooling the entertainment-first masses into believing Bartman was the strongest source of blame for the loss?

I don't want to clog the board with this discussion any further. But your beliefs about the media rely on a dim view of the average sports fan. I may share your view of media repsonsibility and human error when it comes to more complicated matters that call for real investigative reporting and analysis (politics, economics) but not sports.

Sorry, I thought it was Operation Cheer. Never mind.

groan... what can i say. our hitters just seem defeayed before the first pitch. howard... awful

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