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Wednesday, August 13, 2008


Manny Ramirez? Funny, I said I'd rather have a guy named Manny Ramirez for the rest of the season than Burrell, and was told that I was crazy because Ramirez is on the downside of his career. Must be a different Manny Ramirez.

At the risk of dragging this debate into a new thread . . reposted from the end of the last one:

It's amazing. A starting first baseman has a .589 OPS against left-handers for the season and a .745 OPS for his entire career. But if you dare suggest that perhaps the team would be better off platooning him with some journeyman player who is half-way decent against left-handed pitching, you are met with all kind of vitriol about how the idea lowers the intelligence of the whole board. It's "The Emperor's New Clothes" argument: Ryan Howard is the Emperor and everyone's so busy gawking at his fine new silk threads that, if you dare to suggest that maybe they're not all that fine, you're an idiot. The facts don't matter.

Manny is hitting .619 lifetime against Blanton. Ouch. That includes a .556 so far this year.

Michael Taylor now has 6 straight multi-hit games in a row after going 2-4 with 2 HRs today.

Everyone watch the Best Damn sports Show tonight. Jimmy and Howard are on there and get this. Exact Quote from Jimmy Rollins and Howard. " The fans in Philadelphia are FRONTRUNNERS." Are you F'N kidding me. I am beyounf pissed right now. I needed to share the news

That pretty much tells you all you need to know about Jstroll and K-Zone.

Manny going downhill? Not a chance.

I am saying this now on august the 13th. I will never EVER cheer for this POS again. I want jimmy gone, in case he hasn't noticed he sucks this year and as for howard nodding in agreement, that is BS and this guy is going to strike out 200 Times this year.

Salley even tried to help them out by saying " Guys alot of cities treat players like family." To which Jimmy responded, " No not like this, they cheer when you win and boo when you lose." In case those bums forgot when they lost 80 games a year we still came to watch their sorry asses. I am sooo heated right now.

flipper - just so you know, Howard has 2 more RBI against LHP w/ RISP than Utley in 14 more AB. OBP may not drive men in, but SLG does. Utley's SLG against LHP w/ RISP is .605. Howard's is .351. There is no comparison. Howard is an average player against LHP with RISP, he's a terrible player against LHP overall. Utley is an elite player no matter the situation.

If indeed Rollins made that blanket statement about all Phillies fans, he's a dumbass. I loved the Phils since I can remember remembering anything. The Phils haven't been good for most of my life, but I never waivered. I'm not the only fan like this, there's many more like me. So shut the F' up J-Stroll!

Averaging over 42K a game in attendance even after raising ticket prices...real professional. I guess we all can't stroll down to first when we hit flyballs.

"we still came to watch their sorry asses."

Most attendance records say otherwise. In 2002, the Phils were toward the bottom in attendance, when they lost 80 games. This may not be a smart move by Rollins, but I suspect he knows better than we how fans treat players - he's been here a long time.

The reality is that most fans, in all cities, are fair-weather.

The same pathetic fans pay his sorry ass with our ticket purchases.

I just saw the clip on comcast sportsnet. They said it will be on after the game. Trust me this is worth staying up for. I am so mad I won't be able to sleep tonight. After we spend our hard earned money and this guy dogs us fans like this. Trust me when they return home, I hope the fans boo his ass all the way back to his "cribs" house. he is such a diva I can't stand it.

And in case he doesn't also remember he is LUCKY he won MVP.

I honestly say we should trade these 2 guys next yr for pitching. Resign Burrell, get Dunn to play 1st for cheaper than howard will cost next yr in arbitration and bring up glavis. I am DONE, D O N E

I have a feeling if this is all true about what Rollins said, that he'll be hearing it loud and clear from us "frontrunners". I've supported him his entire career, and it's like a slap in the face to hear him say that kinda stuff.

Problem is, as Sophist and I discussed earlier today, Howard is using St. Louis as his benchmark for fanbases (and he's telling JRoll how much better it is there). It's an unfair comparison, as the Cardinals have won 10x+ (I'm too lazy to look it up) the WS titles that the Phils have so their fanbase has had the luxury of being successful for many, many years.

You can handle losing occasionally b/c you can always point to the flags whenever someone tells you that you suck. We have one (and most of us weren't alive or were too young to really remember or enjoy it).

F*ck Jstroll...maybe they'd cheer him if he'd stop popping up the first pitch or lollygagging down to first.

Carson: You'd think he would have learned from Schmidt and Bowa not to say things like this--Bowa said the exact same thing back in the 70s, no?

I think he must want to be traded, because he doesn't seem to be this stupid.

Sophist : Are you kidding me. We boo Rollins because he has sucked this year and thinks he is above the team. You are clueless my friend as always. Go look up your splits.

We boo howard because he strikes out 5 times for Every HR he hits and 2 times for every RBI. Are you kidding me?????

So next yr you are willing to pay Howard 15 million, ( which is what he will ge tin arbitration) to preform like this??

Are you willing to get rid of Burrell to pay howard that kind of money?

Too bad no Vic in the lineup tonight. I don't know about Werth hitting second against a righty, maybe Dobbs could have been moved up.

Funny...we almost never boo Utley. BECAUSE HE WORKS HARD AND VISIBLY GIVES A SH!T!!!

I haven't seen the clip of JRoll and Ryno, but is what they said that out of line?

They said we suck as fans and only care when they win.

NEPP: I don't think those are the words they used and Rollins prefaced it by saying, "I'll probably get some flack for saying this, but..." He said we're frontrunners and for the most part, he's not wrong. We are "What have you done for me lately" kind of fans.

But as I said previously in this thread, we've had so little success here, it's understandable. Rollins should have just said what he said in the commercial. It's not a cupcake city.

Looking foward to hear Vin Scully tonight. J-Stroll must be pulling a Manny, he can't be that stupid. He might be feed up w/ this ownership group like everyone else.

Whatever. Any one of us would probably feel the same way if the fans were booing us all the time too -- or, for that matter, writing posts on the Internet about how we should be benched, traded, waived, demoted, or platooned. I really couldn't care less what Rollins or Howard think of the fans. I'd just like to see them hit a couple homeruns tonight.

Considering that ownership doesn't really care about winning it all, they're lucky anyone goes to games at all.

Seriously though, 1 championship in 125 years...

So if we are "frontrunners" as is exactly what jimmy and Howard said. Then trade them to the Mets, Rays, Milwaukee, Dodgers....thats a frontrunning team. Hell the dodger fans come in the 4th inning and leave in the 7th every game to ebat traffic.

I seriously lothe jimmy right now. 1 championship in 125 years + jimmy not hustling + jimmy joking around when playing + jimmy being a diva = TRADE HIS SORRY A**

I really need to see the context of the JRoll conversation. Philly fans are tough. In some cities (e.g., St. Louis) the players can do no wrong.

"We are "What have you done for me lately" kind of fans."
It's more like "What have you done for me last inning?" Again, since I haven't seen it I can't judge, but it sounds like something that maybe he shouldn't have said, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

"We are "What have you done for me lately" kind of fans."
It's more like "What have you done for me last inning?" Again, since I haven't seen it I can't judge, but it sounds like something that maybe he shouldn't have said, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Guys, Rollins and Howard do NOT get it because they are NOT from Philly or even the east coast. It's simply a cultural thing. This ain't St. Louis and a player would be rudely awakened if he came here thinking so.

STL also has like 12 WS banners to point to in the bad years...

Damn. Chase beaned. Need to pop Manny.

Met fans are frontrunners, too. And he also says that Oakland fans don't come to the park at all...which is true.

But, sh*t; I'd rather play in Philly than in Miami. Booing is better than crickets.

GoPhilsGo -- it's more than that. Fans will accept Utley or Coste during a slump (to a point). Those players demonstrate something that cockey, flippant players do not. Fans will not accept 200 K's or first pitch pop-ups from a player who seemingly refuses to attempt to adjust.


Well given Jstroll's comments I think I'll go to bed and actually get some sleep instead of stupidly following the game on my laptop like I do every other game I can't watch on TV...guess that makes me a frontrunning fan. At least I dont have to stay up till 130 now.

mike: No, I don't think that qualifies. The BL jinx would be if he had hit that homerun off a left-hander.

Good for if he just shuts up and plays the rest of the season...

The reverse jinx only kicks in if Howard hits LHP.

WTF? Runs?

i wonder how rollins would feel if he were traded to oakland.
he'd probly like it. with no pressure to win he can stroll around without any fairweather fans to give him grief for his laidback im so cool attitude. i have to find a new shirt to wear while watching the game tonight.

Dobbs with a first inning homer too! What a shocker...we live and die by the longball.

JStroll needs to be strung up for those comments.

SO anyone else think maybe Penny's not ready to come back yet?


Mr. Dobbalina, Mr. Greg Dobbalina.

As Kruk just said, this is the Phillies offense. No HRs, no runs. I'll take it, though.

Just get us a GD win!!!

Once every 4 or 5 nights, the Phillies pad all their offensive stats so people can point to the team's run totals and claim that they're actually a good offensive team. Tonight is that night.

BLers have been all over this team for months now for the crime of not being great enough while being in first place for most of that time.

We're not frontrunners. We're not happy unless they're really far in front.

Stunningly its against a pitcher with an ERA over 5 just back from a long injury...

Exactly. St. Louis throws a party for their 3rd place team every night, and we bash a team in first place. That is the truth.

Good for STL...they also just won a WS. Its a tad different when your team never ever ever wins its all.

Blanton= 256 lbs

Penny= 260 lbs

Everybody thinks the BoSox have the best fans in baseball REd Sox nation blah blah great were they before 2004?

@mvptommy seriously you have to relax.

There is nothing JROLL said that was NOT true. Just reading this board alone is a perfect example. You would think this team was in last place 30 games back.

There are good percentage of phans who are NOT frontrunners for sure. But even the "die-hards" on here, who follow them through thick and thin, but are miserable the entire time. That's who Rollins and Howard are talking about. The people who think it's not just their right to boo, but an obligation.

And if you decide you are going to be the guy who boos JROLL for making an truthful statement. You only prove that Rollins is right.

There is a certain irony in people here being that upset about what J-Roll said. Be honest, there aren't a lot of fans that would complain about a 1st place team. Yea, i know they could play a lot better.....

It's hard to call a group of fans front runners when the team you play for hasn't won in 28 years.

I must have just not noticed all the pink Red Sox hats before they won the championships.

Whoever said all fans are front runners was right. If a team isn't winning, they're still your team, but really, who wants to spend their money to go watch that?

Blanton= 256 lbs

Penny= 260 lbs

Broxton = ???

@NEPP: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Philly fans. I'm just saying that Rollins is accurately describing the fans.

RedSox fans before their WS victory would have...its exactly the same situation...but suddenly they have great fans. Its called frustration at 28 years of futility and well over a hundred of mediocrity.

I believe there is a distinction between front runner and miserable bastard (ie, most of the lot on Beerleaguer)

"even the "die-hards" on here, who follow them through thick and thin, but are miserable the entire time."

Are there really fans like that?

This looks a lot more like the Joe Blanton I thought we were acquiring.

NEPP -- As a Boston resident (and fan) my entire life until just prior to '04: About as great as a bad night here on Beerleaguer. In other words, the die hards sweating bullets while the casuals took the inevitable failure for granted.

You can read it here every night.

Every positive for the Phils is explained away as some fault with the other team.

Every negative for the Phils proves they're not any darn good.

Blanton can't throw strikes. Not good.

There's that sense that no matter how good things are...something horrible is about to happen...having lived in the Boston area for a few years...being a Phillies fan is a very similar sensation. Even in Game 4 of the 04 series, you still felt that the stadium was about to implode before the Sox could clinch it.

Yankees fans have like 4 championships in the last 10 years and they still boo arguably the best player in the league.

As a side note, I've never seen a city as collectively depressed as Boston in late October '03. Living by swords, and all that.

what is this inning?

Good to finally see how Blanton pitches with a lead.

This is the 3 IP, 8 earned run version of Joe Blanton. This game will be tied within minutes.

In his has been a while for him.

That 4 run lead was a mirage.

How can you eat innings when you can't find the plate?

There you go Blanton...HUGE K!

Well he can eat innings by efficiently walking them on only 4 pitches.

28 pitch inning.

Whew! But 28 pitches for the 1st does not bode well.

Whoever said this Dodgers lineup was anemic was insane. Manny and Blake changed the complexion completely.

Give Blanton credit for getting out of that...that was huge.

On the positive side (this is odd) if Blanton calms down and has a couple easy innings (say 10 pitch each) he's only at 50 through 3 and that's about average...right.

Go Team!

Ruiz with a NICE drag bunt. WOW. That was pretty.

Ruiz, WTF? Nice, i guess?

Blanton occupies the Eaton slot, after all. An exciting 1st inning guaranteed.

Very nice by Ruiz. He is really trying.

Wow, I'm surprised by all the screechy emotional reaction to J Roll's comments. I guess some Beerleaguers can dish it out, but can't take it.

Truth Injection: I generally agree with you but your defense of the depth of the Phillies farm system tells me you don't have a good handle on the quality of some of the talent. You cited Happ, Carrasco, Carpenter, Bastardo Donald, Golson and as examples. Only 1 of those (Carrasco)can be called a blue chip prospect. Donald is unlikely to be an everyday player. Happ is back of the rotation. Bastardo projects as a middle reliever. It is unlikely that Carpenter and Golson will have useful mlb careers. The farm wasn't as bad as you think under Wade and it's not remotely as good as you think under Gillick.

Ruiz does alot of little things that make him valuable. I feel he's an excellent contributoer and a wonderful teammate.

"Every positive for the Phils is explained away as some fault with the other team.

Every negative for the Phils proves they're not any darn good."

I totally disagree with this statement. By the way, it was nice to see Blanton get himself out of that mess -- even if it was only because the Dodgers' offense is tertible. But Blanton never would have been in the jam in the first place if he didn't suck.

Most scouts say that Donald could be an everyday player right now...not a star but a solid regular.

In fact, I cannot think of a single bad thing to say about our prospects.

Excellent small ball skills being displayed here.

Drag bunt? I thought Ruiz was righty and only lefties could drag? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Well, Jimmy certainly isn't doing himself any favors with his play tonight so far to follow up his comments.

"Every positive for the Phils is explained away as some fault with the other team.

Every negative for the Phils proves they're not any darn good."

Very well said.

Well, Jimmy doesn't like small ball and he doesn't like frontrunners. So he figured he'd just K for us.

I was impressed with how JROll worked the pitcher there and made him throw 5 pitches. A bad player would have just grounded out on the 1st pitch. He obviously cares a great deal about the team and is a wonderful guy through thick or thin. I'd definitely want to share a foxhole with such a great teammate as he.

Jimmy, Jimmy, where have ye gone?

Jayson Werth cannot hit RHP.

BIG shot by Werth, off a RHP.

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