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Wednesday, July 30, 2008

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Fast Facts:
*Brad Lidge is the only closer in the National League to be a perfect 100% in save opportunities this season (25 saves), joining the elite closer of all-time Mariano Rivera (26 saves) as the only closers in baseball to do so in 2008.

*Greg Dobbs is awesome as a pinch-hitter, going 20-47 (.426 average) with 2 doubles, 1 triple, 2 homeruns, and 14 rbi. As a starter he kind of sucks, going 21-87 (.241 average) with 4 doubles, 1 homerun, and only 7 rbi.

I'd trust Jen Utley's comments on trade rumors more than I would anything Ruben Amaro says.

On a somewhat related note, how has Comcast not yet given a half hour a week TV show to Jen Utley and Heidi Hamels? Get Anna Benson involved and you'd have a license to print money.

**Reposted from previous thread**

Are some of you guys ever happy?

Myers pitched really well. He worked ahead of a majorit yof the hitters. The curveball and slider looked good last night. Yes he hung maybe 3 or 4 but the difference is he was locating the fastball. If a major league hitter knows you can't locate the fastball they won't look for it. Why should they? Once they start ignoring that then they start looking for your breaking pitches. That's where a lot of home runs occur.

The biggest difference between Myers last night and Myers in previous starts was this- He was hitting spots with his fastball in the zone. At the knees, outside part of the plate, inside corner- he was hitting the glove. When you do that hitters can't look in zones. You can downplay the Nationals line-up all you want but even the worst hitters can hit fastballs that get too much of the plate. Myers didn't do that last night and got guys out.

That being said, this start doesn't mean he is back anymore than the start against the Mets meant he was done to so many people. There are far more encouraging signs in these two starts than discouraging ones but we won't know a whole lot until after another two or three starts.

“Myers didn't pitch in a single situation tonight where he faced any kind of pressure or really had to pitch from the stretch at all. He benefited from a generous strike zone (as did the Nats' starter) and the Nats sat as Myers got ahead in the count with fastballs early.” -- MG

So when he pitches well it doesn't count I guess. Must look for reasons to still be angry. Apparently Myers himself had nothing to do with not getting into any kind of pressure situations.

Wide strike zone, or not, having watched the game, it did not seem that he was getting away with too many pitches. He was not flying open like in his last start against the Mets. Tom McCarthy mentioned that Dubee has Brett now monitoring Cole's preparation between starts and on Cole's practice of concentrating on release point and foot landing during his prep work.

Regardless, as others said, hopefully this builds confidence for Brett. It was good to see him in good spirits when he was pulled from the game after Chase got caught in between on a potential double-play ball.

What a novel idea.

"Hey, Brett. See what you're doing? Don't do that. See what Cole is doing? Yeah. Do that."

Here's hoping it works and he can build on last night.

JZ: Yeah, but no one has ever questioned Brett's arm, they've just questioned his makeup. Agree to agree that I'll take performances like last night moving forward.

Moving away from Brett...If Dobbs is so much better (production and value wise) as a PH, why not start Bruntlett, with is superior glove, and keep Dobbs available for a big spot? Now that Taguchi seems to have a pulse, he can be that D replacement in LF if necessary. Also, has anyone heard anything about Snelling? I feel all he did up here is get a huge RBI, and then disapeared...

The Nats were pretty horrible last night. I credit their impatience for the reason Myers got through seven innings with so few pitches.

That being said, this was the necessary first step for Myers return to #2 form, and though this performance doesn't really alleviate concerns about him, it was the necessary first step.

And just because its not a reason to get all excited about this stretch run, its also no reason to get bent out of shape about it either.

Yeah...I went to see Dark Knight last night as well...awesome movie BTW. Brett pitched well and hopefully he keeps it up..they need him to be competent if they want any shot at making the playoffs.

Good:

A win is a win. Keep 'em coming.
Utley had a nice hitting game.
Myers looked good.
Durbin
Lidge

Bad:
No energy
Relied on HR
Nats are terrible and they played to their level.
Bottom of the lineup.
I watched the game instead of seeing "Dark Knight" for the 3rd time.


I hope it's a good game tonight, b/c i'm going and usually I don't go outside when it is as hot and humid as it is today. Don't make me waste my trip to the park, Phils.

“---He benefited from a generous strike zone (as did the Nats' starter) and the Nats sat as Myers got ahead in the count with fastballs early.”

I thought the plate umpire did a good job overall. His strike zone was tighter than many of the umps out there.

I'm still on vacation, away from computers, but thought I'd borrow one to say how happy I am that Eaton has finally nailed down his proper place in the rotation. (You know, in that porcine kind of way). I haven't felt this hopeful since they traded away Cardenas on, ummmm... who did they get for him?

Anyone know what kind of fielder Cervenak is at 3B? The hot corner is, after all, one of the top 8 positions defensively.

My last sentence in the summary should have read "You gotta hope that he pitches this well on Sunday Night Baseball", which will be similar to the limelight he was in last week vs. the Mets in Game 2 making his 1st start back from the Minors.

The Nats may have been impatient, but the fact of the matter is that they (just like everyone else this year) tried to jump on his pedestrian fastball. The difference was location. Also, his fastball wasn't lighting up the radar but it definitely looked like it had more life and movement. Anyway we all look at it and disect it, it is something to build on -- baby steps from Dr. Leo Marvin. The real test will be Sunday night.

Another important fact is that, aside from a few innings, he was consistently in the 90-92 range with his fastball, occasionally dialing up a 93 or 94 when he needed it. Perhaps he was able to regain some velocity in addition to control by adjusting his mechanics. If he can keep his fastball in that low-90's range while locating it well, I have a feeling we will be seeing more of this Myers, regardless of the level of competition he faces.

Jon Heyman says the Phils are back on with Manny talks. I don't know how I feel about this.

I'm all for Manny but not at the cost of Burrell. But really, this is the Phillies. Chances of this happening are the same as Jen Utley cheating on Chase with Eric Bruntlett.

I must say, Beerleaguer is better that Baseball Tonight even when the fearless leader is at the movies. I get to hear about the Phils without the annoying background music.

Reed -

kudos to you on a "What About Bob" reference. Great movie.

Carson: BAP had a pretty good explanation of the splits between starts and PH for Dobbs.

Just for fun I also looked up the splits on other guys who did a lot of pinch-hitting: Mark Sweeney, Manny Mota, Vic Davalillo and Lenny Harris. In every case their pinch-hitting numbers were very close to their career numbers. Also, in every case they had hundreds of ABs as starters and hundreds as PH.

Conclusion: Hitters are pretty much who they are whether they start the game or pinch hit. But Dobbs doesn't have nearly enough ABs to draw any conclusions about him (including the silly notion that he is somehow magically transformed when he pinch hits.)

MG's method of reasoning works along two tracks, neither of them legitimate, strictly speaking: 1) in the cases of Phils success, a complete denial of agency. So, for instance if Brett Myers pitches well, it is only because he was "lucky". Here's MG:

"Myers didn't pitch in a single situation tonight where he faced any kind of pressure or really had to pitch from the stretch at all."

Now, perhaps like me you might naively impute that fact to pitching prowess. But you'd be wrong, cause:

"He benefited from a generous strike zone."

and furthermore:

"the Nats sat as Myers got ahead in the count with fastballs early."

Because the height of good hitting is swinging a la Rollins at the first pitch one sees. Also, the fact that Myers fast ball had movement, was well-located and pitched for strikes has...nothing to do with Myers--because if it did, it would mean Myers is a free agent, which in MG's universe is plainly impossible--and everything to do with the National's hitters. Because the National's hitters were themselves throwing the fastball? Literally pitching to themselves?

Uh oh, reasoning leading to absurdity. Better backtrack: it was "luck". The umpire had a "generous strike zone."
And the Nats are poor hitters. Which leads MG to say, that if Myers were pitching to good hitters, the results would have been completely different.

But perhaps it's not obvious to you why that would be so. Well that's because you aren't schooled in MG's second track of reasoning, which is: the gross imputation of bad faith. Indeed, bad faith is the sine qua non of the MGian method. So for every Phillies success, we must assume, first of all, that the Phillies had no hand in it (they have no agency after all) and secondly, that in the "real world" or the platonic baseball ideal or more accurately the projected baseball universe existing only in MG's head, such success would have in fact never taken place. So take no satisfaction from last night's win. For as MG says, "A better team than the Nats would have likely found a way to tie that game up tonight."

But then, naive lamb that I am, I might say, well why assume that that would have happened? The Phillies bullpen has prevented teams both good and bad from "finding a way to tie" games up. Of course, sometimes they blow it, but seemingly more often they don't. So why assume in one direction or the other: the fact is that they beat the team they played.

Well, says MG, you assume the worst because...you must assume the worst. Because the MGian method of interpretation depends on...grotesque bad faith.

Of course, don't ask for proof--which in the nature of things is impossible because the reasoning is simple projection. The assertion can't be tested, and so can't be proven wrong--"oh yes, a better team *would* have tied". True, I can take the opposite tack: apply grotesque good faith: "even the 27 Yankees would have failed to come back" and remain just as unimpeached. But you see the gimmick: that bad faith (or good faith) is purely prejudicial projection and therefore meaningless as mode of argument. Unprovable, untestable, un-referencable (to invent a word), just empty verbiage.

Why would Gillick say that Utley is hurt? Why would Amaro say that Utley is hurt, the day after Utley says he is not hurt. Why are they f-ing with the one guy on the team who has his head on straight? Seriously, can anyone tell me what good will come from them opening their traps. Is there a strategy I'm missing?

B/c he probably is hurt. He seemed to be grimacing in pain at a couple of moments last night (error play?), which I noted to myself and "doubleh" noted on BL. By saying he's playing through pain, Gillick/Amaro are taking some pressure of him by saying "he's not just sucking lately", he's playing through pain. Of course Chase will say he's not hurt, he's a gamer.

I meant to add: "or, at least sore"

Klaus (k-don in disguise?): Good post.

Clout: I don't think anyone actually believe Dobbs is really a .350 hitter as a PH and a .250 hitter as a starter, as if these were real skill levels. The question is which numbers move to find his real level: do his PH numbers come down, or do his numbers as a starter come up? The answer is probably a little of both, but as you say, he's had such a small sample size of ABs that no one really knows yet. We shall see.

Anyway, to finish up, it's perfectly possible to be pessimistic about the Phillies chances for post-season play, to be skeptical that Myers has turned a corner, to be down on the lineup--to in sum, rate the Phillies as a just-above average team--85-89 wins. Indeed, I was say that such an attitude is immensely warranted.

But it's an embarrassment to good Philadelphian pessimists everywhere to lazily attribute every success to "luck" and to assume, apropos nothing much, that "had they been playing a better team they'd have lost". Obviously that's not analysis--that's simply grousing. And when I read such things, repackaged in post after predictably "reasoned" post, I lose my patience.

MG how can you possibly bash a guy who pitches 7 1/3 and gives up no earned runs. I mean thats good I don't care if it was a double A team thats good, it doesn't mean he's a cy young candidate but thats how he's supposed to pitch against the Nationals and Pirates of the league. Give the man some credit he pitched his best game of the season last night

Re: Dobbs stats as a pinch hitter.

I'm not sure how you would look this up but I would venture Dobbs sees more fastballs as a pinch hitter than he does as a starter. Being that Dobbs is a dead fastball hitter (to the point that I can't understand why you would throw him one) it plays into his strengths more.

Thanks, District. It is a very underrated comedy.

As seen on MLBTR: "the Phillies had the Padres ask Greg Maddux if he would accept a trade there. Maddux told Padres GM Kevin Towers he would not."

That's fine by me, I would not have been excited to get a washed up Maddux. I say we dodged a bullet here.

I hear you BB, but it doesn't make sense to me. No one is on Utley, he doesn't need defending, and certainly not from the likes of Gillick and Amaro (Who, if I am not mistaken, shoud be taking care of their own business about now). Maybe I'm naive, but if Chase says he's not hurt, I believe him, especially over congenital liars like Gillick and Amaro.
But I asked for a reason, and you gave one. Maybe that's why they're doing it but in my view it doesn't help any. And who is being the GM at the trade deadline while this dynamic duo defends Utley from his hordes of detractors?

Squatter,

Respectfully, you may be a bit naive there. I know we have our doubts, but I think our GM can consider trades and talk to a reporter about his players without being too distracted by either task.

IMHO, they were just trying to take some pressure of Utley, who was struggling mightily. Not a big deal and not uncommon for a manager or GM to do something like that. I think Utley's has too much pride to make it sound like he has an excuse for his slump. Good for him.

Did anyone realize of Myer's 88 pitches, 63 were strikes?

That sounds pretty damn good to me.

Also he had only 2 K's... To me thats a good sign too, because chances are it means he was either [A] - Throwing his fastball more (and locating it), and/or [B] - He wasn't even getting deep enough to the count to use his curve for the K's...

I'm starting to believe that Myers may have figured himself out, though I would like to see this next couple of outings to fully believe

I think they are saying Utley is hurt just to brace the masses for the possible future DL stint. Also, after his major home slump against the Mets, he was booed a bit. They don't want their star player/franchise guy (and he is it now, since we all know Howard will never be signed long term) starting to get the Burrell treatment of yesteryear.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Myers' lack of strikeouts last night. That is a real departure from the normal Brett Myers. Of course, Myers' location was excellent all night (as shown by the fact that 63 of 88 pitches were strikes). And he was definitely helped by a liberal strike zone, as I mentioned in a post in the very first inning. As a result, he was able to induce lots of poorly hit balls and didn't really need to strike people out.

On a normal night, however, Myers isn't going to get all the calls or hit his spots as well as he did last night. On those nights, he won't succeed if he only strikes out 2 batters in 7 innings. Myers is not Aaron Cook. The strikeout is an important part of his repertoire.

BAP: Somehow Cipper thought his lack of K's was a good thing. I was baffled by that.

And, just as I pointed out Myers' lack of strikeouts, Cipper points out the same thing. Only difference is that, while I think it's a bad sign, Cipper thinks it's a good one since, "He wasn't even getting deep enough to the count to use his curve for the K's..."

In other words, he never gets deep into the count because he throws his fast ball and the opposing batters hit it. How is that a good thing?

Why would you say that? Jen Utley cheating with Dobbs... Thats just gone to start something.

How are we feeling about Moyer tonight? From what i see he is 9-4 in his career against the nats with a 2.90 ERA. This year is 3-0 against them. I am hoping for the same tonight.

mlbtr is reporting the rays are scouting jayson werth... what does everyone think is brewing there?

I don't see lack of K's being a good thing. May not be a bad thing either, gotta be a case by case basis. Myers generated 2 DPs and should've had a 3rd if Utley didn't boot the ball.

Werth for Kazmir.

"Mike Tingle of ESPN 840 in Charlottesville spoke to Rays scout Mike Cubbage yesterday. Cubbage said that he plans to scout Phillies outfielder Jayson Werth, and that Werth may be available in the right deal. Werth, 29, is hitting .272/.358/.485 in 268 plate appearances (most of the damage done against lefties)."

Ok if they are considering this they can't be dumb enough to think Jenkins can take over everyday, or can they? Is this a prequel to a Manny trade? A Golson call up? anyone hearing anything on this?

bb- they might have to throw in eaton AND taguchi to get that deal done...

Make the pot sweeter for them how about Donald and Werth for Kazmir?

That ball/strike ratio sounds great, but that Umpire had the widest strike zone I've seen all year.

Myers pitched well last night, but I'm not confident he'll continue to do so. His good start/bad start ratio is about 1:5 this year. Thats alright though, because Happ can replace him after his next slip-up.

Myers's encouraging starts have probably hurt the Phillies more than his bad starts, because they've built misplaced confidence, which lead to multiple losses. Lets be real here- Brett Myers is responsible for the Phillies losing about 20 games this year, more than any other player. The "David Bell clause" is the only reason he's still starting games.

That doesn't mean Myers won't pitch well this year; I just don't trust him anymore.

What could the Rays possibly offer us that we could use now? They are in a pennant race; I doubt they would be willing to surrender any MLB ready guys (like a reliever). Unless this is related to Manny...I'd rather unload Jenkins.

I would think if Werth is traded, there's something else cooking.

I guess what I'm thinking is the location of his fast ball didn't lead to any big hits and because he was locating his fast ball the end result was less opportunities for K's... sorry if I'm confusing, it was just something I thought of..

I guess what I'm calling it is a Kendrick-esque outting with a helluva lot less pitches and hits? Does that make more sense? ha

Werth for one of the Rays' minor league stud pitchers (they won't trade Price, of course), then Man Ram comes to Philly?

Werth and Myers for Kashmir, Shields and Crawford???

~not serious as Ed Wade is not the Rays GM~

If Chuck LaMar were still GM, some of those trades may be plausible. Lucky for us, he's on the Phils payroll now!

But if we're going to throw out wild Tampa-related scenarios, the guy I'd want would be the guy the Phils should have signed to play 3B two offseasons ago---Iwamura.

I think the Manny deal won't be done with us. To be honest isn't Burrell have a better year, younger And going to cost less then Manny. Manny USED to be a unreal player but i think to trade Burrell for Manny would be a mistake. If they trade Werth, I think a possibility would be Jason Bay and package him with the pirates lefty reliever for prospects

Myers looked better against the Nationals than he did against the Akron Aeros, so what does that say about the Nationals? They're an average Double-A team.

still, who plays right, burrell or manny? who plays left? how often does victorino need oxygen mid-inning after covering all that extra ground?

i'm all for manny's bat- but not much else... and losing werth's high OBP and speed could hurt our already inconsistent offense.

Well, I was thinking Burrell AND Manny, but i think we've already heard enough about the defensive liabilities.

Rays are apparently in on Bay too.

Trade Musings:
- Could Myers and Werth be headed to Tampa Bay. Myers would move to the backend of the bullpen and Werth is the outfielder they need.

This would free us up to get AJ Burnett who has been great his last few outings.

Phillies trying to get a catcher from Texas, could that mean Marson gets traded for a pitcher or Manny?

Seems like the rays have their name in every hat because theya re starting to sputter with the Yankees starting to win and same with the sox. But i think the rays will get a veteran pitcher, it doesn't make sense for them to get more young utility/of's like werth. Their is no leadership on that team besides the guy that always wins, Cliff Floyd, that guy is like a walking playoff machine.

Wow, lots of rumors flying around. Does anyone think that if a lot of crazy things go down in the next day, this front office will be able to get the better end of things?

Jack - I have full confidence that we'll either not make a move or end up making a bad one. Very confident, in fact!

Yeah I'm a pessimist.

I'd be pretty surprised if Werth was traded, at least right now. He's become a pretty pivotal piece of this team.

Add me to the list of those who would like to see Bruntlett in there at 3B most of the time. He's a pretty decent player and a fine eight-hole hitter. He has good at-bats, usually makes solid contact, and doesn't hurt you in the field or basepaths.

I live in Tampa and what I've heard about the D-Rays is that the only "moves" they're going to make are bringing up Baldelli and Price.

All the other rumors are just for PR purposes--the Phils aren't the only team that does that kind of thing.

Just saw on ESPN that Tim Hudson might need TJ surgery. Wow, how snakebit are the Braves this season?

NO, Gillick will be on Daily News Live tomorrow night and say things just didn't have the perfect fit to pull any triggers and will do the same thing they do every year and sign a guy off waivers to help us just get to the playoffs then get swept or win one against the Brewers.

PS: Not Pessimistic but the FO has no Guts, if the offers are all there make one!

Burrell for Manny will not happen--Manny is not a better player now than Pat is, and Pat is well-liked around here, while Manny is a time-bomb.


What about Edwin Jackson? He was on the block earlier in the season and they have plenty of starting pitching especially with the emergence of Matt Garza who’s been lights out since May.

****Just saw on ESPN that Tim Hudson might need TJ surgery. Wow, how snakebit are the Braves this season?****

Satan's collecting his debts for allowing them to have 3 HoF SPs for the entire 90's.

It's not about the FO having no 'guts'; it's about having no depth. They already gave up more of it to get Blanton. I'd be perfectly fine if they sat on their hands the next two days. Particularly if your farm system is already depleted, the time to fill in veteran pieces is in the off-season free-agent market, not scrambling to add them at the expense of your future in July.

"I guess what I'm calling it is a Kendrick-esque outting with a helluva lot less pitches and hits? Does that make more sense?"

Cipper: Yes, I'll buy that. I agree with BB: on a one-game basis, Myers' low strikeout total is neither good nor bad -- especially given his overall results. It might, however, lend some support to the MG theory that the strong outing had more to do with the Nationals being terrible than with Myers having great stuff. On a longer-term basis, Myers is not going to be a successful pitcher if he isn't striking people out.

BAP: Somehow Cipper thought his lack of K's was a good thing. I was baffled by that.

Posted by:Jack | Wednesday, July 30, 2008 at 11:49 AM

And, just as I pointed out Myers' lack of strikeouts, Cipper points out the same thing. Only difference is that, while I think it's a bad sign, Cipper thinks it's a good one since, "He wasn't even getting deep enough to the count to use his curve for the K's..."

In other words, he never gets deep into the count because he throws his fast ball and the opposing batters hit it. How is that a good thing?

Posted by:bay_area_phan | Wednesday, July 30, 2008 at 11:50 AM


bap and jack, I'm not trying to start anything, but Lidge didn't have any Ks last night either.

Is he slipping? Is that a bad thing?

Lidge and Myers are different animals.

Nats announcer Bob Carpenter noted in a slightly sarcastic, but also sort of complimentary tone that Myers " at 27, looks like he has become a pitcher that nips around the edges instead of his old bread and butter attack the hitters approach. Moyer at 45, has really perfected nipping around edges." (paraphrasing: wish I had the exact quote)

AWH: If Lidge had pitched 7 innings and only had 2 strikeouts, yes, it would be cause for some concern. 3 outs is not enough of a sample size on which to be alarmed.

Even the best strikeout pitchers have games where they don't strike people out. However, I was struck by the juxtaposition of Myers' low strikeout total & the fact that he had his best start of the season. These 2 things are a little difficult for me to reconcile, and it does lead me to think that this was more about the Nationals being terrible than about Myers being lights-out.

I don't know that last night was Myers best start of the season; I thought his performance against the Reds was better and he was facing much better hitters then (and he had 8 SO's in that game, too). He gave up one run in that game, but the performance was more dominant.

meant to add Re: Myers/nipping at corners pitcher.

Carpenter seemed to be hinting at what BAP is saying above: While Myers was pitching well last night, he seems to be a different type of pitcher than he used tobe and that was only a year or two ago, While Moyer's been working on this for years. (something like that)

Stark on 950 now.

Says a deal by tomorrow, for the Phils, is unlikely!

However, by Aug 31, something will be done.

Unreal.

Brett Myers isn't "back", because that was 1 game, a good game, but only 1 game nonetheless. However, let's not discount what he did last night, which was pitch very effectively for 7 innings, just because it was the Nationals and the ump had a pitcher-friendly strikezone. I'm happy about Myers start and encouraged it may lead to better things, but I'm not silly enough to think it all of a sudden clicked and everything is fine now.

"Deep into the third tier of Lefty relievers. Arthur Rhodes is high on the list." and it was Mahay for Donald +

AWH: No, but I wouldn't specifically point to Lidge having no K's as an example of how GOOD he was. You can be good without having K's. I find it hard to believe that for a strikeout pitcher, as Myers most definitely is, you can argue that he was good BECAUSE he had no K's.

So the Phillies evidently inquired about Greg Maddux, and were told that he would reject a trade to the east coast. My question is: what the hell are the Phillies doing inquiring about the washed-up Greg Maddux? Maddux is yet another back-end starting pitcher. The Phillies already have 4 of these guys -- probably 5, if Moyer ever starts regressing to expected norms. Why do they need yet another? Do they think that six crappy starters somehow equates to one good one?

They inquired about Maddux BEFORE the Blanton deal...not after. If they could get him cheap (i.e. far less than Blanton cost) it would have made sense.

That happens every year for Gillick.

06 : Conine, Moyer
07 : LaForest, Branyan


Judging by the two-year trend, in the third year we can probably expect the return from retirement of the wrong Alex Gonzalez and maybe a trade for Nunez.

Making moves after the deadline, that is.

I liked the Jeff Conine pickup at the time...he was known for being clutch...at least against us. He did bat in the .280 range down the stretch so it wasn't a total wash.

NE Phan, agreed. If it'd been possible, I would much rather they have made a move for Maddux than Blanton. Maddux is a guy you want pitching in big games. And 'washed up' or not, his numbers this year aren't any worse than Big Joe's.

I too would have preferred Maddux over Blanton, because Maddux would have likely come cheaper. People on here keep saying we need to give Blanton a fair chance. The man came in with bad stats on the season and actually has put up worse stats since arriving...why should we expect any better?

I think that Gillick and Co would have preferred Maddux as well but he refused to waive his no-trade clause for us...I guess he prefers SD to Philly for some weird reason.

Some of you are really tripping over yourselves to discredit Myers start.

- Umps strike zone was too big.
- Bad line-up
- Didn't strike out enough guys

Am I missing any?

I'm undoubtedly in the minority, but I have no problem if the only deals we make are post-deadline moves. The odds that the Phillies will be able to make a signifcant deal before tomorrow are slim and none and, since we're dealing in a seller's market, we're likely to get raked over the coals in any trade that we make. But, after July 31, non-contending teams will usually just give away their high-priced veterans whom they were unable to dump during the trading period.

For sure, we aren't going to land any impact players after July 31 but, then again, we're not going to land any impact players before July 31 either. Once the deadline passes, at least the price for non-impact role players won't be as steep.

Truth:

Aren't those valid reasons?

BAP: I'm not sure you're in the minority. I think most of us expect to the Phils to come out on the short end of most trades so I really don't have that big a problem with them not making another move. Especially if the Mets and Marlins are more or less standing pat as well.

Supposedly the Mets are looking to add a pitcher now that Maine is injured: L. Hernandez, Washburn and Paul Byrd are on their list...please please please let them overpay for one of them.

Ugh. Myers pitched a really good game and was the reason the Phils won the game.

What drives me nuts is idiots like Klaus who look at things in isolation and on top of it disregard the content of what occurred. As if the entire year means nothing in context. That is the one of worst attributes of Philly fans.

Last night there wasn't one time during that entire game where Myers had to bare down in a tough situation. Didn't help that the advance scouting report from the Nats basically said "wait early in the count." Myers' located really well for arguably one of the few times this year all night long but Nats were late to the game. 20-1 says the Cards take a different approach on Sunday against Myers. They might wait a bit but they will be much more aggressive on Myers' fastball early in the count.

Plus, people are completely disregarding the fact that the Nats have completely bottomed out offensively (they were going to be shut out for the 3rd time in 5 games which is almost impossible in this era of baseball). Also, the strike zone was incredibly liberal on both the corners and up in the zone. Part of the reason why Nats' pitchers had 9 Ks and 0 BBs.

Last time I thought Myers had turned the corner was against the Reds in early June. His stuff was incredibly erratic at times but it was electric. Plus, Myers beared down when he had to that game to get the necessary out when needed.

Myers isn't going to be a #2 or a frontline starter this year. He does have a shot though of at least being competitive most times out and giving the Phils a shot to win. Frankly, that is what they need out of him. Too many times this year, Myers has just laid an egg including his first start back against the Mets last week.

NEPP: If the Mets pick up one of those guys (especially Livan) it may hurt them more than help them. So I'd be fine doing nothing if that's the Mets best move.

Wasn't Myers oddly wild in his first start back? Like not bad location on his fast ball but he couldn't get any pitch over for a strike? I mean he still only gave up 3 runs in 5 innings while being wild and walking a ridiculous amount of batters...

not saying thats good by any means but he could have been A LOT worse, especially with those numbers...

but I think he looks good out there, hes having fun again and I think thats a big thing when it comes to baseball, and just about any sport.

BAP - Agreed with you that the Phils weren't going to get an impact player at the deadline and there are likely to be some veteran players available who could help them via a post-deadline deal in August. Even a second-tier bullpen arm would be a lift over Seanez. Same goes for an OF bat in place of Taguchi and probably Jenkins.

Still, for the 3rd year in a row, Gillick came up empty at the trade deadline. Sadly, I think it was more of a matter of economics than anything else though. Blanton is here because he is cheap and Phils control him for next year at reasonable dollars. Ownership does owe this fan base something though for the support they have showed all year including a bunch of sellouts and attendance that will be over 3M.

@MG -- I think @klaus is just pointing out the disconnect that runs rampant here on beerleaguer.

You dismiss Myers performance because he didn't pitch under pressure. Which was because he didn't allow baserunners. But he wasn't striking them out, he was as Jamie Moyer says pitching to contact. Which somehow is now a bad thing. But only for Myers, because he's pitching worse than his results.

But for the Kyle Kendrick critics, he allows too many baserunners which means he is pitching under more pressure, which means if my WHIP/ERA correalation calcuations work out means he should be giving up 6 or 7 runs or game. But he's not he's getting out of those jams, but that doesn't matter because he's actually pitching worse than the results.

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