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Wednesday, July 23, 2008


Cue MG saying "it's not going to happen, why are we discussing it?!?" in 4.3.2...

(Reposted from last thread.)

Well, if Metsblog has its way, there may be a brawl tonight. From a post about how much Cerrone hates Victorino, we get these comments:

"victorino needs to get beaned tonight. simple as that."

"Shrimporino absolutely needs to get beaned tonight at some point. He also appeared to taunt Reyes at 2nd base after his brain fart with the chopper."

"I hope Victorino gets the lead-off spot so Maine can throw the first pitch of the game a little tight."

"Forget Victorino, nail Rollins. First pitch of the game. Send a message."

It's also funny to read how much they think he sucks... how he's a product of our ball park (I didn't realize he torched our short porches)... and how if he was on any other team, he'd be in AAA.

I wonder if either of them can catch or relief pitch.
That's where the help is currently needed.

I'm thinking Victorino & Iguchi for Nady and Kemp.

I live in LA and watch Kemp play on a regular basis. He has all the tools and I also wonder why Dodger management did not let him play more regularly until this season.

He may be the odd man out when Juan Pierre returns from the DL, and there has been consistent talk in the LA media about his lack of maturity and passion. If he can mature mentally he could be a great addition to the team.

It actually might happen The Dodgers cant move Jones, someone has to go...

Saw an interesting report on Wagner from Baseball Prospectus...

Billy Wagner (0 DXL)
The MRI told the Mets' medical staff that Billy Wagner was having "muscle spasms" in his pitching shoulder... or did it? The reports around the baseball world gave just that diagnosis, but it's actually conflating two things. The images showed no structural damage in the shoulder, while Wagner's reports of his symptoms led to a diagnosis of spasm. It's not exactly the same thing, but the more interesting point here is that spasm is an effect, not a cause. One source pointed to his problems with his trapezius muscle in addition to shoulder tightness, and suggested that Wagner is having a nerve problem that may be rooted in his neck. If Wagner has a slight disc herniation that's entrapping the nerve, the same set of symptoms could be seen. Sources close to Wagner dismissed this suggestion, focusing on Wagner's clean MRI. We'll see whether the symptoms stick around as the Mets fight a three-way battle in the NL East over the next few weeks.

Hmmmmm discuss..discuss...

I'm sick of John Maine. He's decent but not as good as his numbers are against us. I think the offense is going to have a big night tonight. Maine is due to get blasted.

Also repeated from last thread:

Well, obviously any team that has to start Marlon Anderson in the OF would gladly take Vic in a heartbeat.

Beaning opponents is one of the most common ideas at Metsblog. I don't think Sal Maglie or Don Drysdale could throw at enough hitters to satisfy those guys.

I did like the comment that if they beaned him he'd definitely score.

They're upset at his showboating when he scored in the 9th.

Even though someone points out that their own players kind of, you know, showboat sometimes it's OK because THEY ALWAYS DO IT.

Oh, Ok.

Re: Wagner

As much fun as it is to beat up on The Rat (especiall when The Machine (formerally The Bat) does it)... I'd love to imagine a Mets bullpen without him. They really lack that backup closer (as most teams do).

The Mets have been seeking an OF and bullpen help for awhile now, and with injuries to Alou, Church and Wagner... it will make the price they're forced to pay even higher.

Of course, The Rat could be back tonight and pitching just fine.

A lot of Mets fans blamed their collapse last year in part on the absence of Duaner Sanchez.

Today you'd think he was Adam Eaton to the Mets fans, when they're not lamenting their manager, ace, 3rd base coach, brainfarty SS, etc etc etc

WFAN playing last night's radio calls right now if interested...

Given a choice, I'd pick Kemp over Nady. Kemp is much younger, and given that both expect to regress, that matters. Nady's BABIP isn't necessarily unwarranted this season, but the number of line drives he hits is. Unless he seriously tweaked his swing in the offseason thats going to go back down to his career levels (and his BABIP will fall then).

The Dodgers have seemed to have a hangup about young players ever since DePodesta left. Torre is helping it somewhat but Colletti needs to be fired. He's a pretty bad GM and hopefully Gillick can take advantage of that and steal Kemp.

In an imaginary deal, what would it take to get Kemp?

You gotta love the red alert panic at Metsblog ...

"That loss last night potentially is a six game swing Philly’s way. Think about it… if the Mets swept this series, they would have been up 3 games by Thursday night. Now, what if Philly sweeps? Then they will be up by 3 games. That’s a six game swing. Even if Philly takes 2 of 3, they will still be up by 1 game which is still a four game swing if the Mets had instead swept them. That’s why head to head is important. Every game is worth two games in the standings." by Fregosi

Actually, I guess that's kinda true...

Yeah, if we had managed to take one of those games Wagner almost blew last time at CBP we might have taken a little wind out of their sails before last night.

The Dodgers have quality youngsters at many positions especially pitching with Billingsley, Braxton and Kershaw.

They do need a closer with Saito on the DL, so maybe Meyers as a closer and some minor leaguers.

I love how everyone gets their panties in a bunch when Reyes or Tatis "show people up", yet you're surprised to see the people at Metsblog don't appreciate what Victorino did.

Are you surprised?

In general I hate Mets fans, not all of them, but a lot of them. Reading that crap over at Metsblog is crazy. I thought we were a rough group at times, but we're nothing compared to that bunch of aholes.

Jose Reyes celebrates everything, he probably gives high fives in the lockeroom following a pee-pee in the potty for crying out loud. Tatis makes me sick with his antics. Dude was lost for 2+ years and now he comes back and has 1 good month and now all of a sudden he thinks he's Joe Nammoth. So go ahead and pick of Vic, J-Roll, and Utley. Like Utley said, "Boo? F**K you".

Calling for Vic's beaning is merely an indication of the maturity level over at Metsblog.

I'm not trying to start anything between JW and Cerrone because they get along, but I'll take JW any day of the week when it comes to insightful posts and maturity level. Also, ever since Cerrone got affiliated with SNY or whatever, I think it's affected his objectivity.

On the last thread MFiP (Mets Fan in Peace) expressed surprise that Jimmy Rollins had 25 steals this season.

Well, MFiP, I'm not surprised you didn't know. You root for a team that plays in the dominant media market, where it's "all NY all the time".

Even the ESPN shills, because of their regional bias, OVEREMPHASIZE the NY teams - in all sports, and more eggregiously, because of the OVEREXPOSURE, tend to OVERRATE the talent that plays in NY.

If you were a more informed fan (i.e. did more homework) you would know that there are many, many talented MLB players (and in other sports) who don't play for NY teams.

I could give you many "for instance" examples, but I hope I don't need to.

Mets fan - judging by how you're all shrewd apologists for Reyes and his 10 year-old antics, yes, I'm a little surprised, but not too shocked considering the collective intellect over there.

i love anything anti-mets

Kemp would be an outstanding addition to this team! I wonder what the Dodgers would want for him. I'd also welcome Nady with open arms (even more so because that means the Muts won't get him to help their brutal OF situation). Nady would probably come cheaper. I think he is a free agent after the season. Again, I'd be happy with either!

I havent paid much attention to it lately... how is howard sitting with his strike out total? is he still on pace for some ridiculous number?

Iceman: Glad to see your a stereotyper. Remind me to ignore anything you say from now on.

RBP: I may root for the Mets, but I live in South Jersey, which is 95% Phillies country. The only time I get to watch the Mets is when they play the Phills or are on ESPN/FOX. I actually watch a good number of Phills games since that's all the baseball I get.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but MULTIPLE people here suggested it would be a good idea for Myers to throw at someone and start a brawl tonight. How is that ANY different from wanting to see Victorino beaned?

And don't talk down to me like I don't know anything about anyone else in the league. Just because I root for the Mets doesn't mean I follow them and only them 24/7.

Someone has his panties in a wad today. I won't say who it is, but he claims to come 'in Peace.'

I actually watch a good number of Phills games since that's all the baseball I get.
The Phils announcers have thrown out that consecutive steals stat for at least the past few weeks. If you watch the games, I don't see how you could have missed it.

Iceman: Thanks for your input. That just translates to "Wow... he's right. I can't be objective."

@ joe l

I watch but I rarely listen.

MFiP, now you are making me question your veracity.

If you "I live in South Jersey, which is 95% Phillies country', HOW COULD YOU HAVE NOT KNOW ROLLINS HAD 25 STEALS?

Hmmmmmmm. Something seems amiss.


I don't see what one has to do with the other.

Clearly his a lier and an a-hole like all other mets fans

Okay Mets fan, I'll bite. Explain to me why it's acceptable to bitch about somebody being a dick one time while relentlessly defending players who are dicks 100% of the time.

If you have Comcast digital you have the free MLB preview package right now and should tune into the Detroit/KC game because Armando Galarraga as a no-no going through 6.

"That loss last night potentially is a six game swing Philly’s way."

I love this Mets fan math. Let me see if I have this logic straight. Although the Phillies and Mets appeared tied in the newspaper standings, the Mets actually entered the series with a 3-game lead, given the pre-ordained certainty that they would sweep this series. By losing game 1, they lost a full 2 games in the standings, since, even if they win the last 2 games, their lead will have dropped from 3 games to only 1. If the Mets gets swept, they will have gone from 3 games ahead of the Phillies to 3 games behind -- hence, a 6-game swing. Ok, I think I get it. The only part I'm confused about is how "that loss last night" can potentially be a 6-game swing. Don't they have to lose 2 more games for the 6-game swing to happen? Or are those 2 losses already pre-ordained certainties, since they lost last night?

@ Cipper

Thanks for your well thought out, well spoken input. Kudos to you sir.

@ Iceman

Which players are dicks 100% of the time? Let's establish that first. You're likely talking about Reyes, and I can't agree with you there.

Regardless, if I was a Reyes-defender, I wouldn't criticize Victorino. Same goes the other way. If I were to criticize one, I would criticize the other. I can't speak for the Metsblog posters, mainly because I can't stand most of them.

Maybe I'm old school. I prefer players who play the game and don't think about showing anyone up. I love Reyes as a player, but sometimes his antics get on my nerves. Same goes for Tatis, same goes for any player regardless of the team.

BAP: I agree, that is fuzzy math. Actually, it's just plain dumb. But coming from Mets fans, it makes perfect sense.

Nevermind on that no-no, DeJesus singled in the bottom of the 7th.

There's one thing I truly do like about the Mets. It's the fact that they are so easy to hate. Every last one of them is a creep.

TK: I wouldn't say dumb. I would say arrogant. The guy's logic actually makes perfect sense if you merely start out with the assumption that the baseline state of affairs is for the Mets to win all 3 games in this series.

Mets: Its a scientific fact.

Carson: Galarraga is one of fantasy starters today... he gave up the hit as soon as i turned it on haha

b_a_p, nice analysis. I was struggling with that comment myself.

It's that kind of tortured, twisted logic that makes Metsblog unreadable sometimes.

To all, I posted this before and I'll post this again:

Last night was only one game (the 9th inning was fun, yes), and there are 62 to go.

The Mets and Phils are fairly evenly matched, and don't forget the Fish and the Bravos.

The next two games could both be decide by a run differential of 2, so let's not get cocky.

(It is fun to read Mets' fans threaten self-immoliation after a game like lat night. FCOL, it's only baseball).

MFiP, what does one have to do with each other? Simple - if you really are in 95% Phillies country and paid attention to the local media you would/should have known that.

B.A.P.: you're right. But that assumption is pretty dumb as well. The Mets haven't swept the Phils since '06. The Phils did it, obviously, 3 times last year.

GM, you jinxed him!

Ryan Howard is on pace for a record-setting 214 K's this season. Mark Reynolds is on pace for 197, two fewer than Howard's record-setting season last year.

In Philadelphia Mets=Cowboys. I'm sorry. I just can't come up with a worse insult than that.

Howard's strikeouts have been less frequent lately. Need JRoll and Uts to get going to feed the big man STEAKS!


While I do live in Phillies country, I don't pay attention to local media. I don't read the paper or watch the sportstalk shows on CSN.

The Cowboys have a winning tradition with tons of championships and hall of famers.

Mets? Not so much.

BAP - many of their posts had been ranting about sweeping the Phils leading up to the game last night. In fact, they were still going on about the 10 game streak as if they were still on it. Which is just ridiculous since I think they lost 3 of 4 since the end of that streak.

Now they are freaking out about getting swept by the Phils - thus they 6 game swing I assume.

I'm merely referring to the hate-ability factor.

yea i did the math.. if i did it right, hes still on pace for over 220... but it deffinately doesn't seem hes been striking out that much...

MFiP, I wasn't talking down to you. I was merely pointing out (and I have cousins who are Mets fans - they live in Queens, so I have some experience that what I say is true), that NY fans tend to overrate the talent on NY teams, mostly because the national sports media don't really give enough exposure and credit to players in smaller markets.


Fair enough. I will agree that most NY fans are morons. Thankfully, as a SJ man, I'm cut from a different cloth.

I think there's a big difference between myself and most Mets fans. I'm a fan of baseball in general, and I just so happen to root for the Mets. I have a feeling most Mets fans couldn't care less about other teams/players in the league.

I think part of the reason we get some Met fans on here during the games is because many of the Met fans can't stand Metsblog themselves. That place is one of the most negative sports sites I've ever seen. I can't imagine the bedlam that must have been going on there in the 9th.

I don't mind having intelligent discuss with a reasonable Met fan. Problem is, most that would seek us out here or other Phils sites aren't reasonable. Same goes for Phillies' trolls who post on Mets' sites.

Isn't Kemp just one of those players with a high BABIP relative to the rest like Howard? He SO a lot. His BABIP is actually down from last year.

2007: .411 (311 PA)
2008: .378 (395 PA)

In 2006 in AA his BABIP was .377, .418 in AAA. .374 in his time in AAA in 2007.

His LD% in 2006 and 2008 is just about 25%.

His plate discipline is down this year (his contact on outside of the zone pitches has dropped) although his BB is up. His SO are way up.

I just got hail here in Montgomery County, PA the size of golf balls. It's raining sheets.

What are the odds this game actually happens tonight? I know it's an ESPN game, so they'll do everything possible to get it in.

Mets fan in Peace: No offense, but maybe it is a bit telling that you, a Mets fan, live amongst Philly fans, and discuss baseball on a Phillies blog. What does that say about the general disposition of other Mets fans?

You should just give up the ghost and become a Phillies fan. I think there are a few seats reserved on the bandwagon.

@ doubleh

You're absolutely right. Sure I'd love to go to a site and have intelligent conversation about the Mets, but Metsblog isn't that place. Too many morons there. I would MUCH rather converse with people who seem to know what they're talking about (which is most people here) regardless of what team they root foor. I don't mind conversing with fans of rival teams as long as it's civil. I find it helps to keep me in check. If I spent all my time at Metsblog.... yikes. I shudder to think.


I can agree that there are a lot of dumb Met fans. You could likely say that about other teams as well.

While I appreciate the invitation, I think I'll pass. I bleed orange and blue.

After being with my wife for 9 year (married 6) I've finally converted her from a Braves fan to a Phils Phan. MFiP- you too can convert brotha!

Anyone know what the weather forecast is tonight @ Shea? I'm in South Jersey and we've got a lot of rain rolling through.

I've got this unsettling vision of Myers starting the game strong...then a 2 hour rain delay...followed by Eaton.


BB - Actually I could see the Phils overpaying for a guy like Nady, selling as a major difference maker (just as they did Blanton), and possibly getting some mixed results. I would be really surprised if the Dodgers traded Kemp though. Would raise a red flag given how desperate the Dodgers are for any kind of offense.

@ JV

That wouldn't really be the worst thing in the world considering the Mets would have to counter with guys like Muniz or Schoeneweis.

Long-term Kemp's a way better move - young, cheap talent, tons of room for growth - but if you want to win now, you can make a very strong argument for Nady. In the first place, Kemp does most of his damage against lefties. Against RHP, he's got an extremely pedestrian .729 OPS. That would go up in CBP some, but still, he isn't really a solution to our problem. All he'd do is give you another guy who hits lefties really well, and we already have that in Werth. He'd basically just be a small upgrade on Jenkins's side of the platoon. Secondly, Nady's just flat-out better this year. Outside of PNC, he has a 1.001 OPS with a .420 OBP. Kemp - just .836. If Nady were on our team right now, he'd be our third best hitter. Of course, he might go and have a mediocre last two months of the season, but that's the chance you take.

Carson, congrats on the conversion. Be careful though. I hear Braves fans treat it as an apostasy, and if they can locate your better half, will come after her with tomahawk chops.

MFiP, come over from the dark side.

I don't like parting with Victorino for anyone. Too much potential. I'll go for Taguchu, Jenkins and Feliz for either Kemp or Nady.

I read somewhere that Burrell used to play 3rd base. What about retraining. Perhaps 3rd would compensate for his slow-footedness. He does have a good, but underated arm. At 3rd, a Schmidt reincarnation? Werth, Victorino and either Nady or Kemp sounds like a pretty impressive outfield to me.

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