Midday: Phillies make themselves at home in Atlanta

Lost in the Brett Myers shuffle was the fact that the Phils had a good night at the ballpark, beating the Braves 8-3 in their return to league play.

Last night’s one-sided final is a little misleading; the Phils were good, not great, against a team that’s fair, not good. Kyle Kendrick earned his eighth win with six solid innings before getting pulled from a jam in the seventh. The offense scored four runs in the third off rattled rookie Charlie Morton, who did not resemble a Major League pitcher on this night. Shane Victorino homered and knocked in four, including a two-run, bases-loaded single in the ninth. Pat Burrell went deep for his 20th home run of the season. The Phils improved to 6-1 against the Braves (40-44), who are a notch below even the most mediocre American League clubs, like Texas, for example.

More Myers: A day after yesterday’s shocking news, we begin to digest the thought process behind Brett Myers’ demotion. The suggestion is that it will last three or four starts, designed to get his head on straight and tweak his delivery. I suppose that's assuming he will not get bombed there, which is exactly what happened to J.D. Durbin, and before that, Gavin Floyd. It’s about getting help for a pitcher who wasn't going to fix it on the fly. It's getting late and they couldn't afford to let it go on. They were taking repeated hits in the standings every time he touched the ball. There was no consistency between starts. That's why he's in Allentown.

His poor performance this season is not a surprise. Maybe to some, but not me. Before the season, I warned readers not to get their hearts set on Myers in the rotation. Little did I know that would mean a “Major League rotation.” He found his calling as a reliever. It suited him. The front office concurred, saying it was where they pictured Myers all along, even early in his development. Then after the season, after he really started to click as a closer, they changed their tune and decided he’d help them most in the rotation. They were wrong. Myers deserves blame, but so do the Phils in believing it would work.

Swindle only temporary? Never get too high, because that’s how it sounds. Manager Charlie Manuel told MLB.com late Tuesday that Swindle was brought up because the Phillies are without Clay Condrey, who won't likely rejoin the team until Thursday. Swindle could be returned to Triple-A Lehigh Valley once they make their decision on Myers’ replacement. Every report suggest that Chad Durbin will not assume the starting role. Triple-A left-hander J.A. Happ remains the most logical candidate. A decision is expected today. Nevertheless, it's better than nothing for Swindle, who earned a shot others like him will never get.

Comments

[clout]

As CJ pointed out on the earlier thread this is the smart move. You don't need Happ before Saturday so why call him up early? Give Swindle a shot over the next few days. I just hope he doesn't get nervous and lose his command. With his stuff, he has to be able to hit a flea in the butt from 60-6 to get outs. If he can't, it will get embarrassing fast.

[ajc1]

My enthusiasm for this team had hit a season low yesterday morning, and then the front office grew a pair and demoted its underachieving opening day starter and then promoted a junkballing minor leaguer. And suddenly I'm excited again.

And oh yeah, we're still in first place. Crazy stuff. Craaaay-zeeeee.

[J. Weitzel]

Clout: Agreed 100 percent. I'm excited to see it, but nervous he'll lose it. A guy like Swindle probably gets one chance to show it. And on those borderline strikes, does R.J. the junkball rookie get the benefit of the doubt over, say, Chipper Jones?

[Bubba]

The Phills should have Brett prepare for a late-inning bull pen role in A'town.
Lidge and Gordon have the spots now and Lidge has been lights-out as advertised. Both have medical history and it is a long year to go . I think Brett as the back-up to closer and set-up man is the best '08 possibility in house.
There is still a trade deadline to think about, but I don't think his combo of high salary and poor recent performance will get us much in return.

[TommyT]

Calling all Steinbrenners ... want a reliever?

[clout]

Jason: It would be enormous fun to see him succeed. There was a closer in the 1960s named Stu Miller who threw 60 mph fastballs and wicked curves, but those guys don't come around too often. This would be the Chris Coste feel-good story of 2008.

[bay_area_phan]

To continue from the last thread, Myers' loss in velocity has been exaggerated and/or misprepresented. He did NOT throw 95 MPH as a starter -- not last year, and not ever. He threw 95 MPH as a reliever, because he only had to throw 12 or 15 pitches per outing. As a starter, it was more like 91 or 92. So his velocity is down by a couple MPH this year. This falls under the category of mildly puzzling, but hardly shocking for a nearly 28-year old starter who logged a lot of innings at an early age. And, as clout has pointed out, the loss in velocity most certainly doesn't fall under the category of catastrophic. He still throws plenty hard enough to get people out, & he still has an excellent curve, which he uses as his out pitch. If his 2008 performance were all about his loss in velocity, how do you explain the occasional dominant outings, where he went 7 or 8 innings & struck out 10 or 11 batters?

[Jimmie J.]

Last night was a nice game for the Phillies. For six innings, like his last start, Kendrick looked ready, steady and in control. Gordon threw a solid inning which should not be ignored. Lots of hitting. I was none too pleased, though, with Jenkins getting the 3-0 green light with the bases loaded, the opposing pitcher struggling, and the Braves still within range. Not too bright on Charlie's part. Hopefully, we're back on track going into the All-Star break. Time to put some distance again between us and the rest of the pack.

[bay_area_phan]

Yeah, Stu Miller -- the guy who got blown off the mound by a gust of wind, during the All Star game at Candlestick Park.

[CJ]

Here's my question...

Why bother with the charade of turning Myers back into a starter in the minors? Let's get his head on straight and make him a reliever. We'll fill the rotation with Happ, Carrasco, Trade, whatever... then after the all-star break, Myers comes back up as a set-up guy and we dump Condrey. The bullpen then becomes:

Lidge
Myers
Gordon
Romero
Madson
Seanez
Durbin

That leaves out Condrey and Swindle (if Swindle shows something, he'll be an option down the road).

The rotation:
Hamels
Kendrick
Moyer
Happ (or someone)
Eaton

Now, clearly, the argument against that is that our rotation would not be playoff ready. To that, I say, it wasn't with Myers anyway. Let's load up the bullpen, get some pitchers who can go 6 innings and let the cards fall where they may. It's not like we're going to be dealing for a great pitcher anyway (don't fool yourselves).

[clout]

Bubba: The Myers quandary is the result of the Phillies being creative. When Gordon went down, they had no closer. Myers fastball/curve combo and his cocky demeanor made him a logical candidate and a lot cheaper than dealing for a closer.

Then came the need in the offseason for another starter plus bullpen help and they got creative again. Instead of dealing for Lidge & signing Lohse or Kuroda, they got 2 for 1 by getting Lidge and shifting Myers back to the rotation. Creative and, again, it saved money.

[ae]

To continue from the last thread, Myers' loss in velocity has been exaggerated and/or misprepresented. He did NOT throw 95 MPH as a starter -- not last year, and not ever. He threw 95 MPH as a reliever, because he only had to throw 12 or 15 pitches per outing.

regarding this: was he still pushing the gun up that high after he came off the DL? because his strikeout rates were quite different before (32 K in 20.2 IP) and after (32 K in 32.2 IP) the DL stint.

[Wayne]

Hydrant, Happ has been on the 40 man roster for a long time. Rosario is still on the 15-day disabled list with a bad shoulder.

[Bubba]

Clout- Understand how we got to this situation, my point was that putting Myers back into the pen seems the likely way to go from here.

[EastFallowfield]

I thought Myers salary was too high to be a closer...with Lidge his salary is way too high to be a setup guy.

[J. Weitzel]

Is this worthy of its own thread? Gillick is rumored to be headed back into the Mariners' organization:

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10884085/rss

I don't think it's worthy.

[Hope SE]

Clout -

Wasn't Stu Miller the guy who got blown off the mound by the wind? (In Candlestick, maybe, I don't remember where.)

[Sophist]

So we're going to go from making a 115-120 ERA+ starter into an above-average closer in an emergency. Then we'll move him back to the rotation and, when the transition fails to go as smoothly as we'd like, we're going to take the ten-cent head and tell him he'll be the 7th or 8th inning guy, depending on the batter and how Flash's arm feels?

Not sure about that plan.

[clout]

ae: There's been a ton of discussion here about whether velocity is the issue with Myers. It is to an extent since the harder he throws his fastball the tough it is to hit his curve. But his out pitch is the curve and the speed of his fastball is not the difference between success and failure for him. Location is. Rich Dubee said as much in today's DN.

[dajafi]

I think they have to try and get Myers serviceable as a #3 starter or so. But if it doesn't seem to be happening, and/or they trade for a Sabathia-type, they could do worse than sending him to the bullpen. Rumor has it that they're in on Brian Fuentes and others; while Myers obviously isn't a lefty like Fuentes, he could provide another arm to shorten games--especially if (like me) you don't trust Gordon to stay healthy and effective.

[Sophist]

Interesting stat from BP.com:

The Braves have had to rely on their bullpen heavily this season, and rank second in the majors in pitching changes, with 269 through 84 games, behind only the Mets (273 through 84). That high number of switches represents the continuation of a 21th century trend: Atlanta has ranked in the top five in games pitched by its relievers every season since 2002, which serves as another reminder of how the Braves have been forced to adapt as their core pitchers have faded, switched roles, or left the fold. Philadelphia, on the other hand, has made fewer changes than any other National League team, with 217 through 84. The Phillies bullpen has had to work less than any other in the NL, both in terms of appearances and innings, for the team's starters have turned in a circuit-leading average of six frames per outing. That light load on the pen has helped Philadelphia stick with the same seven relievers all year, and post the best ARP total in baseball (46 runs above average).

[NEPhilliesPhan]

How about him just hanging his cutter out there or his flat fastball down the center of the plate...those usually don't help Myers succeed. He needs a FB to set up his curve...

[bay_area_phan]

I never cared for the whole Myers-to-the-bullpen thing in the first place. But there's no question that, if they hadn't done it, there would have been no division title last year. On the other hand, they're arguably paying the price for it this year.

There's no way to know if Myers would have been this ineffective if he had never been yanked out of the rotation & put in the bullpen. However, the inference of cause and effect is certainly there to be made.

[ae]

clout: that's true, and I have followed that debate over the last few days. but I thought at the time--and the numbers would seem to back it up--that he pitched differently last year post-DL.

[J. Weitzel]

Thanks for posting that BP information. Great stuff.

[Edmundo]

"I was none too pleased, though, with Jenkins getting the 3-0 green light with the bases loaded, the opposing pitcher struggling, and the Braves still within range. Not too bright on Charlie's part. "

I'd guess the Chollie wanted to give the 'new Jenkins' a vote of confidence. As such, I'm okay with what he did. I really think Chollie is dumb -- like a fox.

[Sophist]

Just noticed that THT listed Joe Savery's performance among the best in the minors yesterday. It's been a busy 24-hours, so it may have gone unnoticed.

PHI A+ Joe Savery

7 IP 4 H 2 R 0 ER 6 SO 2 BB 0 HR

------

To be slightly more fair to Jenkins in that 3-0 situation (although I didn't like the move either), I was hitting well yesterday. Wasn't he 2/3 at that point?

[Sophist]

No, I wasn't hitting well yesterday. I am not Jenkins. But Jenkins was 2/5 with a 2B. I think he was 2/3 or 2/4 going into that bases loaded situation.

[Cipper]

Ok so i'm an idiot but im reposting this because i ddin't realize a new thread had been started....

"Just looking at Myers bio on the phillies site (honestly, i was looking to see if maybe they changed his picture to one with an ironpigs hat on, because personally, i thought it would funny)... but i see he was an amateur boxer until age 13... could explain why hes so hard headed..."

[WillyFromPhilly]

Hey did you guys read Conlin's column today on why Dave Huppert is managing AAA instead of AA? Office politics. Like I told you guys, you can't move a lifer like P.J. Forbes around that easy, no mater how lousy a last place a manager he is. lol

[mike cunningham]

@Sophist - it was nice to do that full page ad for the brewers fans... i thought that was classy.

Does it trouble you to be confused for Brett Favre and Randy Wolf. Do you think they ever get confused for you???

:)

[Willard Preacher]

Sophist, I'd have given you the green light there. No doubt.

[NEPhilliesPhan]

Yeah, I always appreciate when players are stand up guys when they leave an organization...that says something about them as people. Jenkins is a standup guy and my personal pick for a great second half for the Phillies.

[AWh]

"made him a logical candidate and a lot cheaper than dealing for a closer"

no, clout, NO................

don't do it...............

don't call the Phillies cheap.......................

Paul Hagen would disagree with you...........................

[AWH the RBP]

Sophist = Jenkins?

Whooda thunk?

BTW, for a while I've been thinking phargo is Mrs. Coste. Just too coincidental....

Then again, clout has been accused of being Weitzel's alter ego.

[Sophist]

NEPP - My pick is Rollins.

[Slocs]

Happ has earned a shot but my guess is Happ goes on Thursday and Hamels and Moyer get an extra day.

I'm stuck with 4 tickets to fri, sat and sunday mets games, selling at face if interested, email me at slocum_john@yahoo.com

[AWH the RBP]

CJ, not that it matters this season, but that list of relief pitchers you posted made me think about 2009, and about how the "window" may only be 2008.

To wit, only Myers, Madson and Romero are 'definitely' signed for 2009, Madson being subject to arbitration. The Phillies can also exercize an expensive option on Gordon.

Lidge, Durbin and Seanez will be FAs at the end of the season, as will Burrell.

[bob]

there are some people out there making the comment that Myers is too expensive to put in the BP as a setup pitcher.

to me, the dollars we are paying for myers is a sunk cost. the job of management is to enable him to help the ballclub in the best way possible.

i like how myers said he didn't want to rejoin the BP even though he thinks of himself as a closer because he didn't want to take Condrey's job. i understand that sentiment; i don't think i would want to have any part in taking a friend's/co-worker's job because i wasn't able to do mine, especially if his wife just gave birth to their child.

in any case, i have little doubt that Myers is going to come back and be an important piece to this ballclub. on the major league stage, he kept on digging frantically to get out of the hole. but we all know that if you want to get out of a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.

being in allentown will give him a chance to re-learn how to mentally be a starter and go from there. if he hasn't already, this will also give a chance to take a breather, watch some old tapes of himself as a dominant starter, watch video of NL hitters, and put together a game plan for the second half. this is stuff he should've done during the off-season, a la dempster, but there's no time to cry over spilt milk. it's time to just get the job done. he's lucky he's getting a second chance, and that management is giving him extra time to do his homework before testing him on the big stage.

in terms of timeline, it looks like he'll have 20 days to get his act together. that's not a lot of time. obviously, he just needs to get going on the proper path and then continue improving after returning.

good luck brett. godspeed!

[Andy]

Dunno, AWH - Does Coste have a sister?

[TK]

Eskin is currently showing how uninformed and horrible he is today. Completely rips RJ Swindle even though he doesn't know who he is, and acting like JA Happ is a terrible option. He seriously represents the worst of philly sports. Why doesn't he just light himself on fire already.

[Andy]

"being in allentown will give him a chance to re-learn how to mentally be a starter"

Anyone care to guess which adverb I think is an oxymoron in this phrase?

[NEPhilliesPhan]

Does Allentown General Hospital have a good "Brain Transplant" section? If so, Myers should check it out while he's there.

Eskin is a jackass. He does represent the worst of Philly sports most of the time. He also says things just to get ratings/call ins.

"Hey Howard, first time caller, long time listener...why don't the Phillies just trade Myers for Sabathia? What's up with Gillick not making good trades?..."
-typical call in on 610.

[Andy]

NEPP - Not sure I'd want Myers going into Allentown General; who knows how he'd come out? That's where I was born.

[TK]

Ugh, the Marlins won again. Didn't see it but from the summary looks like Perez pithed a solid game through 6 2/3 but then there was a rain delay with two outs in the 7th and the Nats up 2-1. Because of the delay the Nats pulled perez and apprently put in a Manning brother, who gave up a 2 run shot. I honestly think the Marlins will still be our top competition in two months.

[Andy]

Anyone remember in Spring Training when we were considering the pitching staff, someone (kdon?) (Jack?) suggested making guesses for who the first pitcher called up would be. I seem to remember saying Castro. Some folks thought Happ, one or two, I think, Carrasco (since he had been pretty solid in Spring). I don't think anyone picked Swindle. And I'm sure none of us thought the first pitcher call up would happen after half the season was gone.

[doubleh]

The Marlins physically make me ill; there is just no reason (other than hitting) that they should be winning so consistently. Just looking at their stats, they shouldn't be where they are. So many errors, high team ERA. I guess it's that whole "they don't play the game on paper" thing. All those darn late game heroics. Just yuck.

Yet Sophist tells me that they have gone away. I don't see it.

BTW, why can't the Nats play the Fish like they play us?

[Mr. Mack]

I've been away for a few days, only to return and see a lot of much needed roster moves. Here are my feelings on it all:

Myers - Like J. Weitzel, I never thought sending Myers back to the starting rotation was an experiment that would work. It was obvious that he relished the closer's role and that he fit perfectly in the BP with his approach to the game. As big a head-case as he is, outwardly he never bitched or complained about his pitching role on the team. He did what was best for the team, and he deserves some credit for putting th eteam first. That being said, we knew where is heart was all along...the BP.

RJ Swindle - I think a guy like this can be very valuable to any club. Nerves will factor in here early on to be sure, but I hope the Phillies don't make the mistake of making this a one or two appearance trip to the Show for RJ. Having faced a little adversity in his baseball career makes guys like this work a little harder, and like Coste, cherish their role on the club no matter what that may be. I'm hoping we add his success story to the already made-for-Hollywood(Disney?)-feel-good success of Chris Coste. I for one think he should stay here for a while.

Gulp, Phillies FO - My first instinct is to think that this may be one of those dumb luck situations for the FO. I am convinced that any good decision they make is strictly by dumb luck. I admit that my total disgust with the FO may at times cloud my ability to be fair with them, but my lack of faith is due to their track record over a long period of time. At any rate, thinking outside-of-the-box a little here has made their pitching plight a little easier to swallow for the next week or so, which also coincides with following the advice of the majority of BL poster's over the past two seasons. If in fact any of the sabermetric wizards who post here had anything at all to do with Swindle's promotion, Myers demotion and possibly Happ's call up, it ought to be said that we should just keep doing what we all do best here...voice it here on BL'er! Maybe someone in the FO really is reading what is written here and filing it for the future. It would never become known publicy, but I'll bet you all are being read by someone in the organization. They are too paranoid and image conscious to have it any other way.

[AWH the RBP]

Mr. Mack, I'm sure someone in the Phillies org takes a look at BL, but it's most likely the PR types who want to stay on top of fan 'sentiment'.

I don't even remotely think the baseball ops people pay any attention to BL. They're the professioanl baseball ops guys and we're just fans who don't really know anything about the game.

After all, they're the ones with the great track record of making the playoffs and winning championships....................................................never ...............

[AWH the RBP]

................mind