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Thursday, July 31, 2008


Manny to the Dodgers confirmed by NESN and

Wonder what they'll give up considering that they already had too many OFers.

As I said in the previous thread: the Phils play the Dodgers 8 times before the end of August.

The Pirates traded All-Star left fielder Jason Bay to the Boston Red Sox as part of a three-team deal in their only move before Major League Baseball's 4 p.m. deadline.

Boston sent outfielder Manny Ramirez to the Los Angeles Dodgers as part of the deal. The Pirates will receive Brandon Moss, Craig Hansen, Andy LaRoche and Avery Morris.

I guess that'll stop the "Manny in RF for the Phils" chatter.

"Jay Jaffe (1:39:45 PM PT): Robo-thal says:

Manny Ramirez + $7 mil to LA

Jason Bay to Boston

Andy LaRoche, Bryan Morris (LA #1 in '06, i think), Craig Hansen and Damien Moss (both BOS) to PIT"

Which seems to leave LA with OF choices Ethier, Kemp, Pierre, Manny, and Young. Can any of them play SS?

"I guess that'll stop the "Manny in RF for the Phils" chatter."

Thank god.

So the Dodgers are now gonna find playing time for Manny, Kemp, Ethier, Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre? That'll be fun. All said though, to get Manny and not have to pay him for only Andy Laroche, a good 3rd base prospect but one they seemed unwilling to let develop, is a pretty tough deal to turn down for them. Maybe they can get Matt Kemp to play SS or something. Andre Ethier is a pretty decent young hitter, and he just got screwed out of a lot of playing time.

At least the Pirates now have the LaRoche brothers.

Ha! Well, he's out of our division and out of our own hair, but we play the Dodgers two more times than the Marlins in the next two months.

Why don't the Pirates just get it over with and fold the franchise.

TK: What don't you like about that deal for the Pirates?

per, MLBtraderumors: Bob Nightengale has the Bucs getting Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss from the Red Sox and Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from the Dodgers, correcting what looks like a typo in the Rosenthal report.


Right, we play the Dodgers 8 more times, but we play the Pirates in about a week and the Marlins didn't get him - though they still have Hermida.


Also, Bay is under contract for next year as well. Are they out of the Burrell sweepstakes then?

I'll wait till the full terms come out, but I'd be willing to be the Dodgers got screwed on this one. They fired DePodesta far to soon and are keeping Colletti far too long. They started the season with two young OFs who need playing time to develop, Kemp and Ethier. They have two overpriced veterans who have been busts in every sense, Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre. They just traded for a 35-year old OF a few days ago and gave away a catching prospect who has far superior career numbers to Marson. They also gave up a pitcher who has many more strikeouts than IP in the minors. Now they trade for Manny Ramirez, a 2-month rental playing in a large park, for their 3b of the future, Andy LaRoche.

Sophist: I sure hope so. I've been thinking that, that them having Bay takes them out of the running for Pat.

Jack, if I were a Buccos fan I'd completely abandon the team. They traded their two best hitters for prospects. They obviously have no interest in ever being competitive. If any of those prospects become good they'll trade them, too.

so, the game...

i don't want to call this a must win, but to leave DC with a sweep would mean A LOT. it might get this team back on the right foot.

@TK -- why would you have waited until today to abandon the Pirates! :)

McLouth is probably their best hitter this year. Had to trade Nady while his value was up. He will never repeat this. Bay hasn't gone downhill a bit the last few years and also had a pretty high value right now as he is signed through next year reasonably. Also their top prospect McCutcheon is an outfielder and will be up soon.

EDIT: has gone downhill.

TK: They were going to be losing their two best hitters before they were going to be competitive. I think they would have been negligent to hold on to a player like Nady instead of dealing him for help.

Pirates seemed to make the moves they had to make. I'd have more hope now, as a Pirates fan, than a week ago.


Dave X - the Dodgers come off as dysfunctional.


P. N-bag. Not a must-win, but with a win today the Phils will have played a solid month of July (15-10), despite losing to the Mets 5 times, they will finish the month in first by at least .5 game, and they'll have the same number of losses as the wild-card leading Brewers. Would be a solid win.

Resposted from the previous thread:

On another note, there is a game tonight, no?

Isn't the starting pitcher for the Nats one John Lannan? Wasn't he the guy who broke Chase Utley's hand last season?

Kendrick's line for his last 3 starts vs. the Nats:

0-1 17.1 IP, 18 H, 8 R, 7 ER, 4 BB, 9 K, 1 HR, 3.63 ERA.

Lannan vs. Phils:

0-0, 4.1 IP, 6 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 1 K, 1 HR, 8.31 ERA.

Alright, whatever. Bottom line is I'm glad I'm not from Pittsburgh. They haven't had a winning season since '92, and trades like this are the reason.

Anyway, I'm off to Nationals Park for a third straight night.

TK, is the new ballpark worth a road trip?

(Of course, seeing the Phils is worth it, I'm just wondering about the park.

the pirates got four GOOD prospects for Bay including three big league ready players..i would say they did well...and just a TAD better than the abreu dump for the phils

Not to mention that the Dodgers just picked up Blake as well.

Another move that makes no sense is Griffey to the White Sox.

AWH: I was there last night and wasn't particularly impressed. I guess I have high expectations, since most people like it, but to me it just seemed like a poor man's version of CBP, if that makes any sense. Same style, a little more "industrial", but more open in the outfield, which I guess is nice, but to me just made it seem empty. My friend who has lived down here forever hyped it up, but to me it didn't offer anything that CBP doesn't. I think he failed to realize that other new stadiums offered better amenities than RFK as well.

The Pirates certainly weren't going anywhere with the team they had, so they had to do what they had to do. They have been in constant rebuilding mode since 1992, however, so it has made it tough on their fanbase...

RE: Nationals Park: "to me it didn't offer anything that CBP doesn't"

...except Ben's Chili Bowl!

I was at the game last night and despite living down here and having partial season ticket plan(through work), I went to my first game last night. Stadium is nice, but I wasn't impressed by it. I'd say "underwhelmed".

Any other list members going to be in St. Louis at the game Friday night?

"Any other list members going to be in St. Louis at the game Friday night?"

I'll be in STL, but don't have tickets for the game. I may try to get some "cheap" seats at the last moment -- Busch Stadium is a bit over-priced though.

Jack: i agree about the "industrial" feeling of the Nats stadium. Lots of concrete and despite the friendly staff, doesn't seem welcoming.

**Re-posted from the previous thread**

Let's call this "Be the GM"

I don't want to turn this into fantasy baseball zone but I've been proposed a deal that could shake the foundation of the 6 year keeper league I'm in.

Currently I'm in 1st place by three points. The guy in 5th place is offering me this deal. I should also mention he and I are tied in saves. I'm behind a little in RBI's and HR's to teams in front of me

He desperately wants Josh Hamilton off me (11th round pick).

He offered me Alfonso Soriano, Mike Jacobs, and Mike Gonzalez for Hamilton.

Then he said- if I was willing to throw in Cliff Lee (FA pick-up, would be a 13th round keeper) he would add Corey Hart to the deal (5th round pick)

So basically we're looking at Hamilton, Lee, & PTBNL for Soriano, Jacobs, Hart, & Gonzalez.

Now I don't think Hamilton and Lee come close to these numbers next year so I need to cash out high on these guys right? Does that seem like fair value to everyone? It does to me but I'm also too close to the situation.

The Mets have finished playing the Dodgers this season - in May -no Manny - during a spell in which the Dodgers were playing OK, and another where the Mets assisted them in their sub-.500 descent.

Would it not be ironic if the Phils get hurt by Manny during the 8 games the teams play next month?

On another note, this item is copied and pasted from Metsblog, with the name Gillick substituted for Mets' GM Omar Minaya, and prospect names changed to protect the innocent. Tell me this couldn't have been written directly about Gillick.

These guys must all go to some "GM Speak BS School":

Phils GM Pat Gillick is scheduled to address the media later this afternoon, according to

…Update…5:06 pm…

Gillick says he looked in to acquiring a relief pitcher who was a ‘difference maker,’ while noting there were not many relief pitchers who were traded.

He is not disappointed that his team did not make an acquisition, because the prices on players were very high, especially for players who he does not consider ‘premium guys.’

Gillick says he is confident that players will clear waivers that he may be interested in, but he also feels the players he has are capable of getting the job done.

Additionally, he intends to look in to possibly promoting a minor-league player to fill a hole if need be.

Gillick says he checked in with Red Sox GM Theo Epsetin regarding ‘some things,’ but the Phils could not give up a guy who would ‘help them right away.’

He checked in with the M’s regarding Arthur Rhodes, among other relief pitchers, but, ‘We just didn’t have a fit.’

Gillick said he had no interest in trading three or four prospects for a ‘rental guy.’

Gillick says he will not be afraid to bring up Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Greg Golson or Lou Marson, like they promoted JA Happ, and put them ‘in the mix.’

He says that prices dropped on some players, but not nearly enough, especially since the players who he was most interested in were ‘rental guys.’

Gillick says he talked to the Pirates about Jason Bay, ‘but they were looking for a very premium-plus prospect.’

AWh: HA!

But as I said earlier, I truly believe the Mets are in greater need for help, at both corner OF (Tatis and Chavez??) and in the bullpen. I'd be more upset about no action if I were a Mets fan, especially since they have better organizational depth.

Wasn't the Mets farm system hit really hard in the Santana deal? I thought I read they have 2 top guys they don't want to trade and after that, it's kind of barren.

Bed Beard: I guess it depends on who you talk to. I hear the guys over there throwing around 8 or 10 names. Who do the Phils have to trade? Carrasco, Marson, Donald and Golson. That's about it.

They need this sweep, and any other sweep-able series from now on.
It'll be interesting to see how Torre (and Bowa) handles ManRam.

No matter how many OF's they have, I'd say the Dodgers did OK with this one. They traded two "marginal" prospects and got Manny in return (even if it is for just 2 months). At least they made a move in an effort to get over the hump ... and not just be content to sit on the hump.

CJ, it's also possible the Mets approach this year is becoming:

Omar: "Hi Fred. Here's the state of the team. We've had too many injuries to overcome this year, with Alou, Pedro, El Duque, etc., and, while we got Johann Santana, I really don't want to trade away any more of our really good prospects."

Wilpon: "So, what do you recommend?"

Omar: "Let's see who shakes out after the trade deadline, but if we can't get anyone to really help us, I recommend we gear up for next season. Besides, the NL East is weak this season, and I think we might be able to win this thing anyway."

Wilpon: "OK, but what are you gonna say to the media and fans?"

Omar: " The usual BS."

Fred: "OK, but what about next year?"

Omar: "Well, we just caught a break, really. The Red Sox got Jason Bay from the Bucs, and he's signed for next year. That means they probably won't be pursuing Pat Burrell, so we'll have less competition from a big money competitor. We may be able to get him for a few mill less, and hurt the Phillies at the same time."

Wilpon: "OK Omar. I understand about the injuries and everything, but remember, we're going into a new ballpark next year and we need to make a splash."

Omar: "Fred, that's where signing a FA like Burrell can really help. The guy can still hit and get on base, he's a good citizen, and he's finally healthy. Besides, he's a Met killer, so getting him would have a double benefit."

Wilpon: "OK, let's see how this year plays out, but we really need to make a splash this offseason. Hey, won't Manny Ramirez be available too?"

Omar: "Yep, Fred, now you're getting it."

Now do Gillick and Monty.

Gillick isn't gonna be GM next year. So the conspiracy theory is : Gillick is purposely not resigning Burrell so Seattle can get him.

Vikeman: Laroche is more than just a marginal prospect. He's a very good prospect who needs to be given regular playing time in the majors and a chance to develop. The other guy sounds like a solid prospect too.

Sometimes the best deals are the deals you don't make. Hey, I'm almost out of Kool-Aid.

"They traded two "marginal" prospects"

Andy LaRoche is most certainly *not* a marginal prospect.

So who was the best starting pitcher traded before the deadline?

Blanton or Wolf?

We wanna kill Gillick, but there weren't any great SPs to be had, and no real good relievers moving around either.

Correct... there's little reason why Laroche isn't already the Dodgers starting third baseman other than the people running the Dodgers are idiots (Exhibit A: Juan Pierre, Exhibit B: Andruw Jones).

Donc: What trade did you want them to make? Please, details.

Victorino/Marson/Carrasco/Happ for Bay? MAYBE that's better than the package they got. What else was out there that you wanted them to give up quality prospects for? I'm not saying I'm against the idea but it seems silly to whine about them "doing nothing" without offering specifically what you think they should've done.

EastFallowfield: Well, except for CC Sabathia, of course.

EF: Well, there was Sabathia(who it's possible we just couldn't have gotten) and Harden (who we didn't want to take the injury chance on).

Laroche is a good prospect, but at the same time, it was clear the Dodgers simply didn't want him playing right now, and if you're trying to win right now, they really didn't give up all THAT much. It's a typical win-now deal.

AWH: The thought about Burrell signing with the Mets has occurred to me too. I hope it doesn't happen, but they do have a lot of money and will undoubtedly be in the market for a corner outfielder.

We didn't have the chips for Sabathia, which we can't put all the blame on Gillick for.

Harden's health scares me too. Though now he'll probably lead the Cubs to the WS.

OK Fallow, so now all the lights out pitchers who will shut us down in the playoffs are not worth our prospects? if all the phils beloved prospects were any good we'd have a trophy case by now.I've been hearing this since Carpenter sold the team, its getting really old.

It was disappointing that we couldn't make a move, but since I generally don't trust this FO to make the correct moves, maybe I'm relived that Stand Pat stood up to his nickname.

I wasn't aware that the Rockies pitchers who shut us down last year were all available to us at the trading deadline.

BB - what part of "We didn't have the chips for Sabathia" don't you understand? Once Milwaukee included LaPorta, we had no chance at CC. None. Zilch. Zero.

The farm system is weak, and the drafting has been subpar depth-wise. Part of that is on Gillick (he traded Floyd and Gio), but he inherited most of that mess.

BB: You're confused... the only shutdown pitcher traded was CC Sabathia... and it's not that he wasn't WORTH our prospects... it's that our prospects weren't WORTH him. There's no way we outbid Milwaukee there. The Indians wanted a position prospect.

Wow, what a haul for the Buccos.
Andy LaRoche is one of the 3 or 4 best hitting prospects in baseball plus he's a solid fielder. He has superb strike zone judgment and decent power. Comparisons to Mike Lowell are not unwarranted (although Lowell has a way better glove and LaRoche will have a higher OB).

RHP Bryan Morris is a bit of a crap shoot a la Kyle Drabek. He had a 95 mph fastball and a great curve but missed all of 2007 with TJ surgery. He's bounced back nicely so far, posting a 3.20 ERA and 1.29 WHIP in the Midwest League with good K/BB ratio. Projects as potential #2 or #3 starter.

Outfielder Brandon Moss is a major-league ready contact lefthanded hitter who hit .295 for the Sox in 34 games. He strikes out more than he should but plays good defense. Projects as a .270 hitter with 15-20 HR power and OK OB. Would make a nice platoon guy vs. RHP.

RHP Craig Hansen is 24, has a live arm and no success at all at the MLB level. His command sucks but he throws a heavy ball that gets lots of grounders and could be a solid setup man someday. I rate him as more of a longshot than the other 3.

East Fallow:

There are 2 problem with your logic. First, it assumes that the only pitchers who could be had were the ones who actually wound up getting traded. I'm fairly certain that is untrue. The second problem is that it assumes the Phillies had to make a trade for a starting pitcher. But we hadn't even given Happ a chance yet. Happ had pitched 2 outings and had looked pretty good. Yet, Gillick just assumed the worst about him, and then went out and traded for someone who wasn't appreciably better than the J.A. Happ of PG's assumptions.

" maybe I'm relived that Stand Pat stood up to his nickname."

Yeah, I just wish he had been Stand Pat when he was thinking about Blanton.

clout: It was a great deal, IMO, if they got just LaRoche and one other prospect. LaRoche is a major league ready 3B. I sure wish he was manning our hot corner.

Let's get the sweep and go on a tear

there might be more phils fans there than nats

great piece of pitching by KK on Kearns. nice movement. Great location.


if only his stuff could work on LH...

anyone else's cable getting weird?

if only werth could hit righties

Bob Carpenter clearly does no research on opposing clubs.

Steve Smith actually held a runner at third!

Bob Carpenter is like me a calling an NBA game..."ummm He's tall"

This inning helps explain why hitting is better in the AL...having a DH coming up here would make the inning's prospects so much better.

@redbeard -- i'm getting some pixelation here in south philly.

That bunt with runners at the corners is Richie Ashburn's pet peeve.

AFish - I'm guessing you also didn't change the channel throughout the entire rain delay the other day, yes?

wow, tom mccarthy is in the parking garage. what a jackass.

man... what does Ryan Howard see when he sees those pitches. Balls that aren't strikes at any point it leaves the hand... amazing.

had to mute the announcers last night. am considering doing it again. would much rather watch in spanish.

these guys are as bad as the marlins clowns

TC: I'm not in Philly, and doesn't play through rain delays. I'm guessing they must have done a Richie Ashburn special then. Anyone who listened to Richie would remember him bashing the bunt with runners on the corners.

OK, edge, just for you:

Gillick: "Hi Monty".

Monty: "Hi Pat, how'd we do at the trade deadline, and what are the prospects for the team overall?"

Gillick: "Well, we really didn't so much after the Blanton trade, and I would report to you on the state of the team, but I really don't give a sh*t because I'm out of here at the end of the season."

Monty: "Aww, c'mon Pat. I have to tell Giles and the owners something."

Gillick: "Oh, alright. To be totally honest with you, you kind of hamstrung me at the trade deadline because you wouldn't let me trade any of you "prospects" for players who could make a difference this year."

Monty: "Well Pat, our boys Marty and Mike think very highly of our prospects like Greg Golson, and we have to think about next year."

Gillick: “Hahahahaha, I know they say your prospects are good. They have to say that because they’re the one’s who are responsible for your farm system. What do you expect them to tell you Monty? ‘Gee, we screwed up and some of the guys we have don’t project that well.’”

Monty: “No, I don’t expect that, but I think they’re being honest about some of these guys being able to step in for some of the guys we’ll lose.

Gillick: "Well Monty, since I'm being totally honest with you, remember how I told you this IS the year you have to try to win the whole thing. The Mets have their new ballpark coming online, have their own cable network, and are going to be able to spend a lot of money. I'm not sure you're going to be able to compete with that. You told me you don't want to re-sign Burrell at what he’s asking, so we made that lowball offer to his agent so you can say you tried, but don't be surprised if the Mets make a run at him. Who do you expect is going to replace the RH production you’re going to lose when Burrell leaves? Also, a good portion of your bullpen is going to be tough to keep unless you raise your budget."

Monty: “But the owners always ant to make MONEY!”

Gillick: “I understand that, Monty, but just don’t expect to make the PLAYOFFS next year.”

Monty: “Do you think we’ll be competitive and be able to sell tickets?”

Gillick: “If that’s all you’re concerned about, maybe. But the Marlins are going to be better, the Mets won’t sit still, and the Braves might just make some noise as well, so, realistically, you may be competing for 3rd place.”

Monty: “Well, as long as we can make the payments on the stadium, OK.”

Mike, is is fascinating isn't it? He commits like a regular Joe, its mystifying.

"wow, tom mccarthy is in the parking garage. what a jackass."

redbeard, I was thinking the exact same ting myself. It was painful to watch and listed to.

The bottom three broadcasting crews have got to be Washington, Florida, and AZ. I don't mind Tommy Hutton (the Florida color guy), but the Florida play-by-play man is horrible. The problem with Bob Carpenter is that he says tons of incorrect things about the Phillies. He knows nothing about the team.

That's true enough, though, honestly, I hadn't thought about that peeve of Ashburn's until the rain delay. They ran an Ashburn special, as you guessed, which featured a whole segment on Whitey complaining about the 1 out, runners on the corners bunt. I got all nostalgic and everything.

Feliz would have had that, easily.

Feliz would have covered 3B there.

Perfect example of Carpenter's ignorance -- he had no idea that Bruntlett was a replacement for the regular third baseman.

My hunch is that the producers of the broadcast tell T-Mac where to go and what to say. That's not to say he isn't a shmo, but I'm sure those aren't his creative decisions.

bad defense

GPG, maybe, but only maybe. How come mccarthy doesn't think of his own stuff?

OMG, Save the Pandas?

Maybe we could get old Stone Hands back to play 3B. We are paying him after all.

i might be wrong, but i thought mccarthy does alot of the producing

doesnt he decide what shirts they all wear too?

Just tuned in. I'm glad to see that Lannan missed Utley with his obligatory HBP.

I am glad to see that all the doomsday ("Help we're gonna be eaten by the terrifying "Manny Ray") Fish scenarios were premature.

KK has thrown 44 pitches through 2 1/3. Guess we should expect J.A. to log a few innings tonight.

BL seems a little dead tonight. People must be sleeping off their trade deadline hangovers.

Payback for hitting Utley

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