First half suggests Phils' arms have adapted to CBP

Tomorrow night's pitcher, Jamie Moyer, carried a 3.95 ERA into the break. His success is attributable to a 46.9 percent groundball rate, a significant jump over his usual mark.

They say you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Don’t tell that to Jamie Moyer, the new king of the ground ball. The 45-year-old lefty came to Philadelphia with the understanding that flyballs were part of the package, and that fans should brace for a healthy dose of the long ball in the close confines of Citizens Bank Park. That hasn’t been the case, especially in 2008. Moyer’s GB percentage leads the starting rotation. In 10 home starts, he’s surrendered just seven home runs. That’s outstanding.

Aside from Brett Myers, who’s actually been far worse away from the Bank, the trend is sweeping the pitching staff. Last season, the Phillies allowed 125 homers at home, most in the league. This year, they’ve allowed 51 in 50 home games, which is only fifth most. The bullpen has been particularly good; guys like J.C. Romero, Clay Condrey, Ryan Madson, Brad Lidge and Rudy Seanez – who hasn't given up a home run yet – have even better ground ball rates than Moyer. But even Adam Eaton has been solid in the GB/FB department and hasn't been burned by many home runs.

Moyer is extraordinary. Tuesday on FanGraphs, Dave Cameron pulled some numbers to show that 48 percent of his pitches arrive under 80 mph. “Moyer’s running a 4.35 FIP and 3.95 ERA, his lowest marks since his 2003 season in Seattle,” Cameron writes. “His 5.53 K/9 and 46.8 GB percentage are more in line with a guy who throws a sinker and pounds the bottom of the strike zone with 90 MPH two-seam fastballs.”

Moyer’s secret is simple: He lives down-and-away roughly 35 percent of the time, according to ESPN’s Inside Edge. He’ll mix in his changeup, slider and curveball at any point in the count.

Moyer, quite frankly, makes hitters look stupid. Just ask tomorrow night’s opponent, a mere 0-9 in nine tries against him.

Comments

[EastFallowfield]

Go Jaime Go, the Cy Young of Value Village.

[mw_217]

He also typically thrives when he gets the benefit of calls on the outside edge, which he often does. You'll notice every single start when he walks off the field, Moyer thanks the home plate ump for calling a good game. The guy's a consummate professional and I'm sure he's not trying to win over the officials, but it sure can't hurt to show them some class and respect.

[PhillR]

I wonder how he would do if CBP had questtek.

[Jack]

Clout: You are right that without knowing the revenues and profits and overall expenses we can't make any blanket statements. I was only saying two things: one, that The Dude was making an incorrect statement about revenue sharing, and two, that you CAN have a winning baseball team with a payroll less than 105 million dollars.

Obviously, I would be way happier if Comcast bought the team and invested more into it. That said, if we're gonna spend 105 million, let's make sure we have a GM in there who knows how to build a well-run organization. I don't think I'm alone in saying I'm unconvinced Ruben Amaro is that guy.

[Brian G]

PhillR: Me too. Maybe he'd have an ERA closer to his 3.13 road ERA.

[PhillR]

Questec hurts guys like him and Glavine. It increases the ratio of called balls to strikes.

[Brian G]

I know. That's why I responded as I did to your subtle attempt to diminish his achievement this year.

[PhillR]

That wasn't an attempt to diminish him at all. I think the guy is an artist for doing what he has done this year in CBP.

He is older the Greg Maddux, but has so far out pitched him this year. Nothing to do diminish there.

[MG]

I do think Moyer has adjusted because he is just an incredibly savvy pitcher. I do wonder though if his numbers aren't going to start to go south a bit though as the wear & tear of the season begins to catch up with him a bit in August.

[Sophist]

Is there a single Phillies achievement that PhillR doesn't try to diminish?

A very strange kind of Phillies fan. Trying to get delight from out-smarting all of us know-nothing homers.

[MG]

As much as we complain at times about the Phils' pitching this year at times (mainly the rotation), this staff is still far and away superior in every way to the motley assortment of arms the Phils put out on the mound during last year's campaign.

[CJ]

Sophist: Well, I've made my thoughts on PhillR well known...

[CJ]

MG: July and August were very rough for Moyer last year, although he bounced back in September. He had similar results in 2006.

Let's hope his good start in July already helps reverse that trend.

[Mike]

Eaton may not be getting burned by many home runs, but those "almost" home runs are just killing him.

[PhillR]

Jeeze, all you guys do is notice the critical. I laud praise constantly on Burrell, Hamels and to a lesser extent the under valued Werth. I defend Howard through his slump (though as always I say sell high); but god forbid I don't toe the line on Rollins or remain skeptical about Kendrik.

Look I want a winner. I am a critical guy not an irrational fan-boy (see CJ). I see the faults for what they are. Moyer is an artist, I compared him to Maddux in all seriousness, yet somehow I seek to dimish him?

[Alby]

If they get Blanton, I'll take it as evidence they intend to cut ties with Eaton. How long, you think, before St. Louis extends Kyle Lohse?

Clout: I ask from ignorance -- is Cardenas really that bad at 2B? Bad arm, no range, can't make the pivot, or all of the above?

[J. Weitzel]

Correction: Moyer's numbers on pitches down and away are more like 35 percent or more, not 22.

[PhillR]

Pedro is being benched for the Phillies series after getting an injection. That makes the trip to Shea consist of Santana/Pelfrey/Perez. I would have prefered to see the Phillies get a chance at BP with Pedro, but I guess overall it is good to see their 5th spot is still not solved.

[sneed]

We can and will beat Pelfrey and Perez. I believe the Mets series is going to the beginning of the Phils' squad and their usual post all-star break magic.

[clicheguevara]

Jamie is my personal favorite pitcher to watch in all of baseball. You just don't ever see hitters looking as stupid as they do against him.

[PhillR]

I agree with you on Perez.

[Ribbies]

From David Murphy's chat today:

Jim: Why can't Cole Hamels start on Saturday and get 1 extra day of rest instead of 2 and start against the Mets also?

D. Murphy: Jim - Because Manuel doesn't seem to differentiate between the Mets and the Braves.

If this is true, Manuel is still totally dunderheaded. I don't buy that one extra day off for Hamels is going to make a difference, especially if it means he can't pitch against the Fish and Mets. Murphy's explanation makes even less sense to me.

[PhillR]

Cole is running is innings up pretty high. That should not be totally overlooked if the Phillies want to see him strong in October.

[Ribbies]

But PhillR can you explain to me how holding Cole out of the Mets series helps his innings come down? He's still going to pitch. And if you want to save him or skip him, wouldn't it make more sense to do it against a different team?

[Sophist]

It will keep his IP down. Also, is a healthy Braves offense (with Escobar and Chipper) better than the Mets offense?

[PhillR]

Sophist- I am not sure that is how I would frame the decision until after I see how Mets-Reds plays out this weekend.

If the Mets starting pitching continues rolling, all other questions aside, we will need Hamels to keep us in the series.

[Ribbies]

But at this point a game against the Mets, who we're basically tied with, is more important to win than a game against the Braves who we have a healthy lead against. It doesn't really matter who has the better offense, it's who its more important we beat.

[Brian G]

Cole has dominated the Braves this year, so it makes sense to give him an extra start against them.

[PhillR]

Alright, something besides the Phillies has me feeling really down, so enjoy this- I forgot to place a stop-loss on my GOOG stock prior to their earnings report. It just lost 8% after hours. I am a moron. Enjoy.

[THe Dude]

just spent five hours driving out to & coming back home from auburn, ny and i got to tell you, we should all cherish and bow down to our local sports radio stations. THere is nothing but crap on the radio once you get past the local philly listening area going north on the pa turnpike. driving through such places as ithaca and syracuse I was able to listen to their local sports guys discuss whether the USA soccer team will have a chance at a medal next month. They also spent quite a bit of time talking about the vast number of prospects on the Syracuse AAA team!

But I got to admit - they did have Buster Olney on this morning tallking about the state of the phils minor league system. He said that the Phils could not and will not be able to ever trade for top available pitchers like Sabathia, Harden, etc (not because of the park) but because our organization's inability to put together a minor league system that produces anything valuable that anyone else would want in return for a star player. Many around baseball believe the phils purposely draft easy sign toolsy guys to avoid going over slot for someone more polished that mave have slipped down in the draft. THey also rank 25th in $ spent in overseas (latin america, carribean, japan, etc).

THese owners are making way too much money to be left off the chopping block when once again we finish with between 85-88 wins and either lose in the first round or do not make the playoffs. I'm tired of this crap and want some change to the Mid/Late July (pre trade deadline) Clearwater Bunker Mentality.

[CJ]

The Dude: That's one reason I have XM radio.

[bay_area_phan]

PhillR: We disagree about Rollins, but rest assured that few of us take any joy in your stock losses. Now if you were a Mets fan . . . that might be a different story.

If it's any consolation, I doubt a stop order would have done any good. Based on my experience with stop orders, they rarely kick in during the after hours market.

[Mets Fan]

First off I am not one of those guys who will come on here and talk trash to you guys. Secondly, I heard you guys acquired Blanton. How do you guys feel about that?

[BENTZ]

Mets Fan is right - just went across the bottom of the screen on ESPN - three minor leaguers to Oakland for Joe Blanton...question is who are they??

[PhillR]

Blanton to Phillies. Well at least they did something?

[PhillR]

Wow. Olney, after saying "Blanton will be a big help" then says Phillies still won't make playoffs. At least the dude admits to being entirely wrong on the season so far.

[Mets Fan in Peace]

ESPN says a deal has been reached for Blanton.

From a Met fan perspective....

Blanton isn't that good, but he's without a doubt an upgrade over Eaton, and maybe Myers too. I guess we have to see what they gave up to determine whether or not it was a good move.

[Lynsk]

3 minor leaguers? any ideas?

[Mets Fan]

Knowing Billy Beane, he either got Marson, Donald or Carrasco. If it is indeed Carrasco that's a horrible trade for you guys. I'm just glad you guys didn't get AJ, he always kills us.

[bay_area_phan]

Revolting. I dread finding out who they gave up. Undoubtedly Donald.

[rickyj21]

What the heck, Blanton is an average pitcher in a pitchers park, what the heck do we think will happen here? I sure hope we didn't give up much, but I have a bad feeling.

[PhillyFriar]

I don't even need to know who the minor leaguers are to be disappointed with this. Blanton is not what this team needs: they needed a bona fide top of the rotation starter that could match up with Sheets, Harden, Haren, etc. in October.

Not to mention that, as well as Gillick's done here, I don't trust him for one second dealing with Billy Beane.

[sneed]

Fellas it's like this,

Cole should open the Mets series against Santana. The logic behind resting him is simply that his inning count is high and we need him more than any other player on our team to stay healthy if we plan to make some noise in October. I understand that you have to get there first, but he's only going to miss one start here and perhaps a couple others later on. This is a necessary step we have to take to ensure his health for the post-season.

Here's my logic on him going against the Mets:
1) We should allow Happ, assuming he is to make one of the next 5 starts, face the Fish because the Mets have faced him already. Since he pitched this week already you start him on Sunday after Moyer and Kendrick.

2) This sets up Hamels vs. Santana for the first game of that series, which is really our best chance for winning that game. This sets up Myers to return in game 2 against the Mets and Moyer to close the series against his personal foil, Oliver Perez.

Myers comes back to the rotation with something to prove and I would rather him take the ball in his first game back against a hittable Mike Pelphrey rather than Johan. Myers needs a win his first time out more than anything to get his confidence going. It has the potential to be the right kind of atmosphere for Brett to dig in and find his best stuff.

Now, Kendrick would open against Atlanta and if Happ has another good start he would go 2nd, against another team who hasn't seen him. By that time though it is possible we may have made a move for another starter which may render that meaningless. Either way, keeping Happ out of the Mets series makes the most sense since they have already faced him, and would more than likely hit him harder this time around.

[rickyj21]

When Toronto was said to want Golson and Donald for Burnett, we do this? Why Why Why?

[bay_area_phan]

Cardenas, Outman and Spencer is what I'm hearing.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Getting ready to throw up :-X

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Cardenas?! Outman and Spencer i'm ok with, but would rather have given Donald than Cardenas...

[cipper]

Happ gets f'ed over again... kid barely had a chance..

[cipper]

was cardenas the 3rd baseman prospect?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Where are you seeing this?

[mb]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Phillies_Get_Blanton.html

[Steve Jeltz]

I would have been happy trading for Burnett, but Joe Blanton? Why bother?

I'd rather roll the dice with Happ and/or Carrasco in the rotation than trade for Blanton. Prove me wrong, Joe.

[Billy Mac]

Eskin confirms Cardenas, Outman, and Spencer

[rickyj21]

We waste Cardenas and Outman on this? Granted Blanton isn't a FA until 2011, but I just don't think the guy is a good pitcher. 5.73 ERA on the road....they protected this guy by giving him 90 innings at home this year and 37 on the road.

2007 - 2.69era home, 5.11era road
2006 - 5.12 road

I'm going to go start drinking now

[Brian G]

Wow. Just unbelievable. Why oh why... Cardenas... really?

[Sophist]

Cardenas? Hmm. If they did this without losing Carrasco and Marson I may be okay with it. This team should be in win now mode, and Blanton *should* be an upgrade for this rotation. He should be better than Eaton.

Of course, Happ may have been better than Eaton.

At least it's so far consistent with past stories. If they traded Carrasco for Blanton the BS meters would have gone hay-wire.

What are the details of Blanton's contract?

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Cardenas and Outman are way too much. I'm not completely sold on Outman, but coupled with Cardenas is frustrating.

The only reason they want Blanton is b/c he's controlled and cheap(ish), which is the same as our Mgmt.

Earlier I said I'd be happy to trade J. Donald in the right deal, but he's a guy that' could turn out to be a pretty good MLB player. On the flip side, I FEAR trading Cardenas b/c the guy flat out hits and is only 20.

[CJ]

I don't get this. Cardenas for Blanton?

Who cares about the other guys, they're a dime a dozen.

This sounds like just the kind of panic move we'll be regretting.

Ready for the irony? Gio Gonzalez will likely be brought up to replace Blanton in the rotation.

[Brian G]

And here's the most annoying trend in the world.. From Zolecki...
"Why Blanton? For a few reasons. Take away his four worst starts this season and he has a 3.58 ERA, which is more than respectable in the American League."

Well guess what, Todd? Those four sh*tty starts happened! And they count in the standings!!! Hey, guess what, if you take away his four BEST starts then he really REALLY sucks!!!

[Mets Fan in Peace]

When Blanton pitches outside of Oakland, batters have an .817 OPS against him.

His L/R splits aren't pretty either. Righties are hitting .328/.382/.496/.878 against him this year.

[dlhunter]

ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, convulsed for a second there.

This trade doesn't look good, Blanton = Adam Eaton but younger. I'm calling it.

[The Theory]

This is going to be tragic in so many ways...

[Jack]

I would be fine with dealing Cardenas in general, but you gotta get more than Joe Blanton. Nothing against the guy, and I'll be rooting for him. But you don't trade one of your tope 2-3 prospects in the system for an "innings eater", I don't care how bad the system.

Again, I'm not against trading Cardenas in principle. He's 2-3 years away and blocked by Utley at his primary position anyway. But you need to get more value out of that.

Outman: eh

[THe Dude]

I dont like giving up Cardenas. The kid was very young and hits for a high average. He even hits better against Lefties which is odd for his age. He hasn't shown power but the potential is there considering his doubles stats. He figures to be a guy that can play a little 3rd base and possibly outfield in the future. Not a SS or 2nd baseman as he doesn't have the range and glove for those positions. All in all, Blanton is this year's version of the B List (INNINGS EATER - ala Lohse, Lidle, etc). We've gone down this route before and I seriously can't see it getting us over 86-88 wins.

[doubleh]

Cardenas was never going to see a Phillies uniform as he was blocked by Utley. They didn't give up that much, but who knows with Beane? He always fleeces teams.

I'm OK with this move *ONLY* if it is just the beginning. I want to see a solid reliever like Marte brought in and maybe another bat.

Blanton's better than Eaton and I'd rather have him than Wolf or Byrd, but still...it's difficult to get excited about it.

[CJ]

More good news on Blanton:

He's pitched aginst the NL three times this year. He dominated us... but gave up 8 runs in 3 innings to the offensive juggernaut Arizona and 7 runs in 4 innings to the greatest offense of all time, San Francisco.

[dlhunter]

Maybe Gillick knows something we don't...like that Cardenas is about to get deported and Outman's arm just fell off.

[JBrod]

Jack: Agree with your comments totally. No problem trading Cardenas. But, real problem trading Cardenas for Blanton.

[Brian G]

What indication do we have that Happ wouldn't have been just as good or better than Blanton??? I'd have been fine if we gave up someone marginal like Outman, but seriously, Cardenas??? I can't wait until he turns into Chase Utley in 3 years. That'll be fun. Also, Blanton is "cost-controlled", but that cost is gonna start getting up into Eaton territory pretty soon with barely better results. Just a horrible HORRIBLE trade.

[rickyj21]

Cardenas is the guy we took instead of joba chamberlain. I was ok with it when I figured this kid could really be something, and its hard to measure offense vs pitching. Now its Blanton vs Chamberlain.

[jhart]

Initial reaction:

We messed up, again...

[The Theory]

"All in all, Blanton is this year's version of the B List (INNINGS EATER - ala Lohse, Lidle, etc)."

If we get what we got from Lohse... or even Lidle... I will be happy. But I have a bad feeling...

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I don't think you can deport someone to Florida.

[TJR]

Outman will go back to being a starter, Cardenas will be the A's starting 2b in 2011, and Blanton asks for $10m in arbitration.

[MG]

Ugh. So Joe Blanton is the Phils difference maker for 2008? Is he an upgrade from Eaton, I guess but after having seen Blanton pitch twice this year I am less than thrilled.

Blanton was always a bit large but he is clearly out of shape this year. Plus, his vaunted curve (his only decent offspeed pitch) really has been nothing to write home about either. Somehow I see his spotty control resulting in some mixed results particularly for the Phils at CBP.

The one thing I am glad about is that the Phils have finally said enough is enough with Eaton. He has had more than ample opportunity to grab a rotation spot and failed miserably.

I bet Beane is snickering though because he got rid of an underachiever in Blanton for a guy who might be a decent player in a few years and a hard-throwing lefty reliever. My bet is that A's get the better of this trade in the long-term. Too bad it wasn't Golson instead of Cardenas. Would have felt better about that trade.

Still, if the Phils had actually spent some damn money on the 2006 draft instead of going after signable younger players like Drabek and Cardenas in the 1st round they might have had that key prospect to get Harden or Sabathia instead.

[rickyj21]

Lohse has much better stuff than Blanton if that puts anything into perspective. And we got Lohse for Maloney, not Cardenas. This is what I get for dreaming about the Mets making a stupid trade for Blanton.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

I'm sorry but I have to repost this now:

BAP: They cannot sell Joe Blanton to me. They also cannot sell me on Myers being the big addition, by lack of addition. It is really a sickening cycle of futility.

Every time I think about the potential FO moves, I can't help but think of the lyrics of Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb":

"When I was a child I had a fleeting glimpse (Sabathia), out of the corner of my eye (Harden). I turned to look but it was gone (Burnett), I cannot put my finger on it now (Bedard).....The child is grown (My new realistic expectations: Joe Blanton), the dream is gone (World Series). I.....have become comfortably numb (Tortuous Tease Team)."

[rickyj21]

Harden was dealt for a pile of crap, we didnt need to have a key prospect to get him.

[Brian G]

Blanton's ERA+ in his 3 years since a fluky(low BABIP) rookie season 92, 106, 77.. and in the last 2 months he's pitched like... ADAM EATON!

[dlhunter]

@Bedrosian's Beard

Cardenas CAN get deported if he's on a terrorist watch list.

That's all I'm saying. Anyone here work in government, preferably the TSA or Homeland Security?

[THe Dude]

Gotta love Zolecki's and the Phils spin about "if you take away those couple of those bad starts". LOL you hear that all the time when the phils acquire a pitcher. Just for once I'd like us to go out and get a top notch pitcher that you don't need to "take away a couple of those bad starts". But as I said before that will never happen because we will never have quality minor leaguers to trade.

This organization just doesn't realize that latin/foreign players comprise more than 50% of the entire MLB yet in in our organization latin/foreign born players are less than 20% of the total number of players.

[The Glider]

Mets fan who now lives in Philly here. I think this trade is great for you right now (not knowing which minor leaguers you gave up). But for now, Blanton will give you a ton of innings; I'm sure he's glad to get out of Oakland, where he was never going to stay, and onto a contending team. He's coming from "the other league" to the NL where the hitters don't know him as well (that's always a big advantage to the pitcher until he goes around the league once or twice). All this could propel the Phi-tens (or as I like to call them "The Sillies) to the NL East Division Championship.

Should be a fun series next week. I'm sure Blanton will start one of the games.

[MG]

I hope that Eaton takes Condrey's spot as the guy who pitches garbage time out of the pen. Sadly, there are about 8 million reasons why the Phils will give Eaton yet another chance next year in spring training to yet again win back a starter's job. Love the Phils, loathe the management.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

I don't really think Harden was dealt for a pile of crap, just not what they could've gotten if he was a healthy guy. Phils didn't have the major league ready talent to get him.

[Brian G]

We could have had Lohse in the offseason for 4.5 million. He could have replaced Eaton right then and there and we'd be better off now and the rest of the season if we'd made that move, and it would have cost barely more than what we're paying Blanton. Instead, we traded one of our best prospects, one of the only hitting prospects that actually knows how to play baseball.

[Ribbies]

I agree with HH, I'll feel better about this if its the beginning of several moves. By itself, its VERY underwhelming. I would understand it if it was right up against the deadline and it was the only possible deal, but there are still weeks to go.

[bay_area_phan]

MG: Who says they're done with Eaton? I'm envisioning a 2009 rotation of Hamels, Kendrick, Blanton, Myers, and Eaton.

[MG]

The Dude - It was funny/sad reading Zolecki's comments about "removing the 4 bad starts." Considering that is over 20% of his starts this season, that is not some insignificant portion.

Phils have some good beat writers who cover the time at the big papers and the local ones like the Delco Times. Zolecki isn't one of them.

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Cardenas went to HS in Florida. He's a Floridian!

[mc]

a pile of crap? matt murton and eric patterson were'nt exactly a pile of crap. don't write stupid posts if you have no idea about another teams players.

[Sophist]

My money is on this being the last move they make. But Ribbies is right. There are still a few weeks to go. There's still Myers return to see. The FO is clearly not as cynical as we are. They are waiting to see if Myers is the #2 they've been waiting for. He has a better track record than Blanton after all.

[Brian G]

If we're willing to give up Cardenas to get Blanton then why not Marson or Carrasco for Sabathia?

[Mr. Mack]

Does anyone think that this trade is a viable enough upgrade to make them significantly better down the stretch? I hate when a team trades decent/good prospects for a B player. It is one thing if the minor leagues are stockpiled, but the already thin minor league system just took a big hit. Beane does his homework when it comes to prospects and I for one would be really leary in dealing with him concerning such players. I never understand the Phils mental state when these deals go down. I never feel too good about them. By the way, on the plus side, if they were better prospects than we think, they should have landed us a Sabathia or Harden. I guess we need to stock up with better prospects so we can get someone of actual value next time.

[chris]

LOL, craptacular trade IMO

[MG]

BAP - I definitely think Eaton will get every chance to get a starter's job again next year. You know what Gillick's legacy to this team will be in 2009 - $30M of largely dead weight in Jenkins, Eaton, Feliz, and Blanton (who will likely get a decent raise in arbitration).

Forget resigning Burrell or adding a big name starter. That is just not happening until the payroll suddenly goes up to $110-$115 M next year.

Gillick gets praised for some of the smaller moves he has made but the larger ones have been duds.

[bay_area_phan]

ribbies/HH: Yeah, I was going to write the same thing. Feeling pretty underwhelmed with the starting pitchers who are out there, it occurred to me last week that maybe the right move would be to get an average starting pitcher, plus a big bat (i.e., Holliday, Nady). If they made that kind of follow-up trade, then I could live with this Blanton move (barely). But what do you think the odds are of that? How about slim and none? If this wasn't the Phillies' big trading deadline acquisition, I'd be astonished.

[Sophist]

No they aren't, MG. And the A's already got a solid start from Gallagher.

[Brian G]

I don't care if this is "one of a serious of moves".. it's still stupid to give up real talent for a below average pitcher like Blanton.

[CJ]

rickyj21: To be fair... the A's got more than a pile of crap. What they got from the Cubs was a lot more than what the A's got from us.

Not that I'm suggesting I like this deal.

[MG]

Sophist - I hate to use the phrase but the Phils blew their wad on this trade. What is left for teams to take in terms of talent that is near major league ready? Not a single player at Allentown and really only 3 players at Reading (Donald, Carrasco, Marson).