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Thursday, July 24, 2008


The Burnett rumor comes from the Globe and Mail that reported there was a Phillies scout at Burnett's start last night in Baltimore (decent in a rain shortened game). I can't help but think that Myers performance last night increased the Phillies interest in Burnett.

How long is his rope this time around? I don't think you can send him down again.

Do you think putting him in the 'pen will work - perhaps he'll stop thinkin' so much and just pitch.

Either way, I think he's definitely a "change of scenery" guy.

JW: You're floating the injury theory out there again. All we've been hearing is that Myers' problems are all mental/mechanical.
Myers needs a 'change of scenery' trade.

You can't have both Eaton and Myers in the bullpen. That's too much space being taken up by failure.

They should have traded Myers at the first sign of trouble, back when he still had value. It's something that was talked about here.

and sabathia is 4-0 since he was traded. *sigh*

I want to say I am honored for being considered a "pioneering BeerLeaguer" as according to the Man himself Jason Weitzel. You made my day bro.

If Charlie keeps giving him enough rope, he's going to hang himself with it (and trip everyone else up in the process).

When did it become a given that the Phillies could've aquired Sabathia? They tried and were turned down.

I find it puzzling that the same chorus of people who were saying that Blanton "wasn't that bad" and "must be given a fair chance" are now declaring Myers to be irreparably damaged, after 1 wild outing in which he gave up just 3 hits, few hard hit balls, and had a final line that was considerably better than Blanton's.

Myers' outing wasn't pretty, but he did manage to avoid the single biggest problem that has plagued him this year: the homerun ball. His pitches were all over the place, which is usually a sign of nerves. There is nothing in Myers' history (recent or otherwise) to suggest that this will be a recurring problem so, on balance, I don't really understand all the negativity about his outing. After the first inning, he was basically fine, and in the last 2 innings, he actually looked like a No. 2 pitcher. I actually didn't understand why Cholly removed him from the game.

This is not to say that I'm terribly optimistic that Myers is going to turn his season around. I was just struck that everyone was so forgiving of Blanton's lousy outing, but are coming down so hard on Myers.

"JW: You're floating the injury theory out there again."

There has to be some reason, he can barely break 90 MPH, with his "heater" now. That has been consistant all year. He could always hump it up to 95 MPH, when he needed to, a few years ago. He can't anymore and can't locate his fastball either.

With Myers's stubborness, would it surprise anyone if he was hiding an injury? Nope.

His stuff just isn't any good anymore. He isn't 40 years old, so that can't be it. Mechanically, he isn't sound, but he has always had problems with his mechanics. That might be a PART of it, but it still can't explain all of this.

Go back, and watch him when he pitched in the bullpen last year. He hasn't shown anywhere near that kind of stuff, at any time this year. And, I know pitching for 1 inning, and being a starter are 2 different things. But, STUFF-WISE, he hasn't had it all year. Where it went, and why its gone, is something that seems to be alluding everyone.

His time as a starter has to be about up at the big-league level. And, if you can find a team looking for a closer, maybe you can find a trade partner, who thinks they can straighten him out (ala Lidge). Either way, you can't pitch like he did last night, and last much longer in a pennent race.

They guy's a bum. Personally and professionally, he's a bum. Remember his Boston arrest? No class. And now, he's got no pitches.

Maybe he could become an Independent League sideshow. Or a two-bit star on a celebrity reality show. Or perhaps Ed Wade would like to pick him up for Houston's rotation?

Or better yet . . . perhaps he could just go away and never be heard from again. Give him his unconditional release and move on.

A lot of times, I read things on here that I wish I had came out of my head. Jason just dropped me with one such pearl:

"You can't have both Eaton and Myers in the bullpen. That's too much space being taken up by failure."

Genius. Case closed.

I'm sorry, did he actually say "He was 1-3 in the minors, which means he didn’t beat minor leaguers. Big deal he had some strikeouts."??? That is just ignorant.

Hey, Johan Santana is only 8-7, guess he's just a mediocre pitcher. Never mind the 3.05 ERA and 1.212 whip. Peavy is only 7-6 too. Guess he's just average against major leaguers.

Anyway, when Myers went down he was walking about 1 guy every other inning. The only time he had walked more than 4 guys this year he went 7 1/3. The walks weren't a big deal, it was the HRs. He still leads the NL in HRs surrendered despite missing those games. Maybe the minors screwed him up, or he's paranoid about throwing meatballs down the middle.

The Phillies have done everything they could with Myers, time to turn the page. The same with Eaton. They have performed so bad, I don't know if they are tradable. Who would want them, Myers can't pitch out of the pen with his control issues. The highest paid arms in the rotation and they might be completely unusable. It's a damn shame. Kris Benson is a better option than them both.
Take the gamble and make a run at Burrnet and try to get Kemp.

We can't have Myers and Eaton in the pen at the same time? OK, then cut Eaton I am fine with that. I don't see how Burnett really gives us a better chance than Happ. I think our pitching problems can be worked out internally. Gillick needs to swallow some pride and some salary. Happ should be in the rotation. Why deal any more prospects. Now we can not bolster our bench from the minors so make a deal there.

You can't really hit a HR when the ball is thrown to you at eye level.

Is it possible it time to get rid of Dubee and see if another pitching coach can make a difference with these guys? Although I know with Myers it seems he's not the best student.

I should have said starting pitching. dealing for a lefty reliever would also make sense.

(Reposted from last thread)

I also think we have to accept that this team, despite its flaws, is still in first place and has been continuously for almost two months.

I'm not sure what "hitter" we'll be trading for. The problem with the lineup is that Rollins and Utley just aren't producing right now. Are we going to replace them? Of course not. Are we going to trade for a hitting catcher? Of course not. Are we going to trade for a hitting third baseman? Not a chance. That means trading for a corner OF . Will that just take at bats from Jenkins? Or are we dealing Vic away and moving Werth to center? So are we just hoping to trade for a LH corner OF?

When we say "trade for a bat," what do we mean? I just don't see it.

Improve this team by trading for pitching, ptiching and more pitching. We need two bullpen arms.

Seriously . . . why is Joe Blanton subject to the standard of being "better than Eaton," while Brett Myers is subject to a different standard? Myers, too, was better than Eaton last night. For that matter, he was also better than Blanton.

Well, if we're floating theories out there, mine is that Myers blew his arm out, possibly for good, by overthrowing as a closer last season.

Indeed, what did the minor league stint accomplish? Cue Edwin Starr: "Absolutely nothing." Say it again.

Happ is pitching his heart out trying to get back on this team and we are here with Myers in the rotation and Eaton and Gordon and Seanez doing jack in the bullpen. Cut Eaton, hes wasting bench space. Maybe see if we could wave around Myers or Gordon as trade bait and bring Happ back into the rotation. Why can't we trust this guy more then we can Myers? Lets use some of our talent.

Maybe we need two pitching coaches. If you're gonna blame Dubee for Myers and Eaton you've gotta give him credit for Kendrick, Romero, Durbin and others performing better than you'd expect.

Wouldn't there be some evidence, medically speaking, that he blew his arm out? I blew my arm out and it was obvious.



1. J Rollins, SS
2. C Utley, 2B
3. P Burrell, LF
4. R Howard, 1B
5. J Werth, RF
6. S Victorino, CF
7. P Feliz, 3B
8. C Coste, C
9. J Moyer, P

1. J Reyes, SS
2. N Evans, LF
3. D Wright, 3B
4. C Delgado, 1B
5. C Beltran, CF
6. F Tatis, RF
7. D Easley, 2B
8. R Castro, C
9. O Perez, P

How sure is everyone that the Phils were scouting AJ Burnett and not George Sherill?

Jim: A sharp drop in velocity is evidence enough for me. He might not have to actually be hurt, or in any case unable to pitch, in order to have experienced this kind of depletion.

Billy Mac, there's a new thread if you want to repost the lineups.

"You can't really hit a HR when the ball is thrown to you at eye level."

Heh. How true.

Can a beard have an arm?

BB- The point is Myers was wild out of the zone, not in the zone. All year his problem has been being wild in the zone which led to the high number of home runs. I thought Myers did a great job last night when he realized he couldn't control the fastball real well. He relied on his breaking pitches but showed the fastball enough that the hitters had to be ready for it.

Also- a loss in velocity doesn't necessarily have to do with an injury. It very well could be the sloppy mechanics. If you watch a majority of his starts before last night. His left shoulder was going towards the first base dugout as he pitched while the arm wasn't following. He did it still some last night but it was nowhere near as often. Also I could swear a few times the gun came up 93 for the fastball, and even touched 94 at least once that I saw.

Lineup: Let's hit this bum Perez, maybe? Just once?

J. Rollins ss
C. Utley 2b
P. Burrell lf
R. Howard 1b
J. Werth rf
S. Victorino cf
P. Feliz 3b
C. Coste c
J. Moyer p

Blanton is held up to the "better than Eaton" standard, because he actually replaced Eaton in the rotation and is the 5th starter.

Myers is held to a higher standard than "better than Eaton" because he is expected to be the #2 starter in the rotation and this team desperately needs a #2 starter, so "better than Eaton" just doesn't cut it for Myers.

I can see no reason why Myers shouldn't be traded to a team in need of a closer. Keeping him in the rotation (and on the Phillies roster) is nothing short of stubborn optimism on behalf of management. At this point, I don't even care if we get anything in return for him. Dumping salary that could be used in the off season to sign Sabathia is enough for me.

Happ reminds me of a 1991 Steve Avery; a young kid who can make a serious positive impact on our post season chances. Hopefully, his career pans out better than Avery, but for this season, he's outdone only by Hamels in our rotation.

Unloading some combination of Myers, Carassco, Marson, Bastardo and/or Victorino for an outfielder and a left handed reliever (Holliday/Fuentes, Ichiro/Rhodes, etc...) would make the Phillies a serious World Series contender. Standing Pat will make us a scrappy underdog who will be lucky to make the NLCS. It's not a happy thought, but getting swept by the Rockies with Aaron Rowand and a Rollins in an MVP year should be a clear indication that our significantly less-prepared 2008 squad will not fare much better as is.

I know he's due for a day off but I'd really rather see Ruiz in there. He's got a little 4 game hitting streak going. And Moyer has significantly better numbers with Ruiz. Opponents have a .187 point better OPS against Moyer when Coste catchers.

For the record all the starting pitchers hold opponents to a lower average with Ruiz in there.

I'd like to say that we should give Myers two more starts to truly assess if he's better. But what would our options be to get rid of him/get something for him past the trade deadline after 3 bad starts?

"Is it possible it time to get rid of Dubee and see if another pitching coach can make a difference with these guys? Although I know with Myers it seems he's not the best student."

THANK GOD someone said it. With the various pitching injuries we've had under the Dubee years, and Jamie Moyer being approached more often for pitching advice, its time to get someone who knows how to help a pitching staff.

Frankly, even if Myers miraculously returns to his top form (which is highly doubtful), we are in a three way race for the NL East. We can't afford to throw away three games on a tryout for a guy in August.

Take a look at his numbers in his minor league stint. If any other Phillies farm hand had the same numbers, we wouldn't consider giving him three tryout starts in the midst of a pennant race.

The time to cut your losses is now.

Myers had a 3.00 era and a 1.15 whip in the minors. Happ had a 3.38 ERA and a 1.18 whip. And they gave Happ 2 starts in the midst of a pennant race.

Ok...perhaps his combined starts in Clearwater and Reading helped bring him on par, in the minor leagues, with a kid who just made his debut. However, Happ didn't walk the bases loaded and then walk home a run. In fact, the last time I saw that at all was Charlie Sheen in "Major League."

There's more to this game than ERA and WHIP. The bottom line is that Brett Myers is not a major league caliber pitcher. File him with Dontrelle Willis as a man who will hurt you more than he can help you and unload him while you still can.

Can someone please explain to me how their clairvoyance allows them to see that J.A. Happ is definitely going to be better than a healthy/corrected Brett Myers?

I'm all for giving the kid a shot; he's earned it. But please--you'd think he was Tim Lincecum dwindling down there. Let's give Myers another shot before we hang him. Same with Blanton. Happ will still be there--if he keeps improving, he's definitely a lock for the rotation in 2009.

A healthy and corrected Brett Myers...

I think we'd have as good a shot bringing Mitch Williams in from Comcast to set up Lidge.

What more does he need to do in order to demonstrate that he's a lost cause?

Myers is struggling for mediocrity. Right now, Myer's norm is below average, his best is average and his worst is terrible. He might come back stronger next year, but his 2008 season is a lost cause.

I'd try packaging Myers with other players to upgrade a position. Lets say Jason Donald+Brett Myers for Matt Kemp...then trade Victorino for a good reliever. Or just Myers+Victorino for Kemp.

Giving Myers opportunities has hurt the Phillies, and they'll only hurt themselves further by giving him more chances. He won't get better. Happ deserves to pitch- everyone sees that. Just get rid of Myers and cut your losses, for the sake of everyone involved.

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