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Thursday, July 24, 2008


I should also mention that back-to-back 6-5 inning starts from Blanton/Myers puts the Phils in an awkward position with their pen.

I agree with this whole topic. Losing Gordon was way more detrimental than some believe.

Reposted this from the last thread:

Few things after reading through this thread. It's amazing how fast people like to jump on and off the ship.

- Parker: Please knock it off with the PED stuff. It's pure speculation, and bad speculation at that.

- Whoever said "Trade Utley" might need to be checked for substances. Yes the guy is slumping bad right now but you don't trade teh best second baseman in the game and think calling up Jason Donald is going to cover for that.

- As I said in another thread, I saw Myers start in Reading. He was a different pitcher last night from what he was in that start. Mostly in the first inning as BAP pointed out though. He was flying open again which I think was the adrenaline, and maybe nerves. After he got through the first he settled down considerably save for the 3rd inning. Also I thought they did good to get him out after the 5th when he set them down in order. Get him out on a high note.

Also someone was getting on Wheels for "drinking the Kool-Aid" saying Myers is consistent with being high. It's not drinking Kool-Aid. It's a good observation. As BAP said, Myers has been wild in the zone too often this year. At least last night when he was missing it was with pitches most hitters wouldn't swing at. Madson was wild on the change-up to Reyes and look what happened. Wild in the zone is far more dangerous than wild high or out of the zone.

Also I know that everyone is banging the drum for Haap or Carrasco but here's some cold reality. Myers right now is the best option for the #2 starter minus trading for one. So you have to keep putting him out there and hope he gets himself together. A move to the bullpen isn't going to magically fix him, and Haap and Carrasco are still unknown quantities to certain degrees. For better or worse Myers is the guy, and you have to hope he can put it together sooner rather than later.

Also going to add. I watched some of the Blue Jays-Orioles game last night. Burnett looked filthy with his curveball and his fastball had some good movement. I wouldn't mind at all trading someone like Carrasco and maybe Golson to the Jays for him and then take whatever happens afterwards. If Burnett opts out do we get picks off that or do we get nothing?

Sometime in May, Chase decided that he would never ever get a hit to the opposite field. And if the pitch could not be pulled sharply down the line, that he would pop it up immediately.

I understand that the majority of your hits are going to be balls that are pulled, but Chase is radically becoming a strictly pull-only guy. The league evens knows it, by putting the shift on when he's up.

"Whoever said "Trade Utley" might need to be checked for substances."

Whoever said "Trade Utley" might need to be banned. Surely at beerleaguer there needs to be some standards.

I have a hunch that Happ is at AAA right now because he is a bargaining chip for Gillick's trade possibilities.
If they bring him up and he gets shelled his value goes way down.
I think if he is still with the Phils after the trade deadline we will see him get a longer audition with the big club.

This team gave up on trying to get a #2 starter when we traded for Blanton.

If burnett opts out we offer arbitration, he declinesthen we get draft picks.

I think that is right.

According to Rotoworld someone gigh up in the phils was scouting Burnett last night. Sure that was discussed in the last thread, too many posts to go through though.

With that note, it really has to be our goal to get that legitimate second lefty in the bullpen. Fuentes would make this team better and is in the world of possibility.

I sure hope so Bubba. Happ belongs there now. Cut Seanez, move Myers to setup and call up Happ. One problem though, I am not convinced that Myers would be effective in that role. He looks totally lost and he should not make another start.

Truth - Looking for positives in Myers' outing last night is a pretty tough exercise. It was a debacle and Phils were lucky they didn't lose 9-3 or 10-3 last night instead.

Agreed that if the Phils are serious about making a run this year they need to trade for Burnett and shift Myers to the pen. Granted the Phils would pay a high price for Burnett and would have to figure out what to do with Myers in the offseason (Eaton for that matter too). Still, it is the only way this team is going to have the pitching they need to make a run in the NL.

Bubba: I was kind of thinking the same thing regarding Happ. His continuing to pitch well makes him more attractive. Of course, the big club can use him too.

While, I'm not giving up on Blanton, I think the performances in the last two night shows this team needs a REAL starting pitcher. Hence the Burnett scouting again. They need someone who can put guys away.

Move Myers to the pen and hope that sticks. He's not going to have any trade value unless he goes to the pen, does well and they can trade him in the offseason. Might as well see what you can get out of him. He wants to be in the 'pen, anyway.

The thing I have noticed with Utley is the way he throws his body at the ball, like he's trying to get a HBP everytime something comes close to the inside corner. If he is doing that before every swing then he will always be working off of his front foot. I think that is main problem with him right now. Stay back hit the ball where its pitched and if he gets hit, he gets hit. I think that might fix the pull/pop-up tendencies we have been seeing from him.

Agreed that Myers does look totally lost and I have almost no faith that he will be even an average starter for the year. Have to give him a few more outings though to see. Only fair to Myers.

If the Phils don't acquire another decent bullpen arm before the break though and Myers struggles as badly over his next 2-3 starts, then the Phils should strongly consider shifting him to the pen.

This offense continues to be a left down. It is pretty clear at this point that this offense is like the '05 version more and more. Potent at times when the big guys hit but filled with too many mediocre players to be the fearsome force that it was last year.

I said "Trade Utley" and was joking about it, I am sorry that people too it too seriously. Whenever a starting Phillie struggles somebody always says "Trade him!" even if he is just slumping or if nobody else would want him for free (like Adam Eaton last year). It doesn't make any sense and I was just making fun or it. I had never seen anybody mention trading Utley (I had see J-Roll, Myers, Eaton, recently and Howard earlier) so I was curious if anybody would actually agree with my joke post. Looks like nobody bit.

Another part of my joke post is that people always suggest that minor league guys who aren't quite ready yet are the answer like those "bring up golson to replace taguchi" or "carrasco instead of Myers" posts. The only minor leaguers we have who can still be considered prospects are really ready to contribute are Happ and maybe Jaramillo.

I do feel like trading Utley for a king's ransom of prospects, because he is slumping but I don't actually advocate doing that. He'll bust out of his slump sooner or later, preferably today.

Truth Injection: Your assessment of Myers is right on the money.

In the prior thread, Parker said Myers looked like he was afraid to throw strikes with his fastball. That couldn't be more wrong. Someone who doesn't trust his stuff tries to be too fine. That wasn't remotely Myers problem. He was wild high with his fastball which is the result of flying open and overthrowing. He was too pumped, not as relaxed as he was in the minors. Hopefully, he'll stay within himself in his next start.

"I think the performances in the last two night shows this team needs a REAL starting pitcher."

I continue to think that another hitter needs to be added, before another starter.

Hey, they added another starter. They have more starters now, then they can use in a 5 man rotation. Happ needs to be up, but there is no room. Myers is taking up a spot now, but if he doesn't do anything in his next start, I think his time will be up as a starter. Look at the team's record when he starts this year. Look at his ERA. Its embarrassing. Especially, when there are other viable options. Myers gets one more start, and if he looks like he did last night, he heads to the bullpen or he is traded.

Again, the starting pitching and the bullpen is not the reason (the majority of the time) that this team has been treading water for over a month. Its been the offense, that has let down the pitching. Take that 6 run 9th inning out of the equation, and what has the offense done since the All-Star break? Hit a few solo HR's, and not done much else. That's been going on for a long time now. That's not going to get it done.

I think if this team does anything in the next week or so, it will be to add another bat, with Victorino likely to be traded as part of that deal. You don't need to read between the lines, to see that Cholly is not pleased with this offense and is not convinced its good enough to get them to the playoffs.

Happ must stay in the system to replace Moyer next year (assuming he'll finally retire). Marson also must stay considering the sorry state of the catching situation. If they trade a prospect it might as well be Carrasco, who they project to be a #3 starter at best, and live with the consequences.

If Myers fails the next couple of starts they will bring back Eaton, not Happ. Why? Well millions of dollars of reasons why!!

Re: Gordon / Dominos. Waiting for Clout to say 'I told you so', he predicted this before the season started

Great picture, Jason.

If Happ doesn't get called up the end of the season he should do what Francisco Liriano did recently and ask the Major League Players Association to investigate why he hasn't been called up.

I think they need another hitter and a REAL starting pitcher.

Happ give them as good a chance, if not better, to win a game than Eaton or Myers. That's real enough for me w/o bankrupting the few prospects they have.

I just think we have to accept the fact that this team--as a whole--isn;t as good as we all (myself included) thought it was

I also think we have to accept that this team, despite its flaws, is still in first place and has been continuously for almost two months.

I'm not sure what "hitter" we'll be trading for. The problem with the lineup is that Rollins and Utley just aren't producing right now. Are we going to replace them? Of course not. Are we going to trade for a hitting catcher? Of course not. Are we going to trade for a hitting third baseman? Not a chance. That means trading for a corner OF . Will that just take at bats from Jenkins? Or are we dealing Vic away and moving Werth to center? So are we just hoping to trade for a LH corner OF?

When we say "trade for a bat," what do we mean? I just don't see it.

Improve this team by trading for pitching, ptiching and more pitching. We need two bullpen arms.

Personally, I would like to see them trade for a bat control guy--sort iof to fill the role that Tad Iguchi played last year. There are twoo many occasions where a ball inj play would score a run from 3rd with less than 2 out. It would also allow them to move Vicotrino higher in the order.

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