Game chat: Young lefties meet in second round

Following his three-hit shutout of the Reds, Cole Hamels (6-4, 3.36) tries to even the series when the Phillies face Andrew Miller (4-4, 5.37) and the Marlins in the second of three from South Florida. Notes: With yesterday’s 2 2-3 shutout innings of relief, the bullpen ERA fell to 2.54, lowest in the league. Miller, 22, has struggled recently, going 0-2 with a 6.92 ERA in his last three starts, having not gone past the fifth inning during that span. In other news, the Mets have designated former Phil Abraham Nunez for assignment.

Comments

[mike cunningham]

Time for the STOPPER to rebound from his last performance and end this losing streak.

Understandably a losing streak of one. But you get my point. :)

[Ankit]

From the previous article... Greg Golson is a Chris Roberson/Michael Bourn type of player at best. He has terrible plate discipline and lacks adequate power. I do not understand why he is considered a "legit" prospect. Am I wrong and missing something or he is another one of those "tools" players that the Phils like to hype up and turns out to all fluff and no substance?

[Andy]

Ankit - You are missing something. When he makes contact, Golson is a much better hitter than either of the two you named, with more power. Also, his defensive skills are unquestionable. According to all reports his speed and arm are comparable to Victorino. But if he cannot recognize off-speed pitches, he will never be a real prospect.

Also - there's a large difference between Roberson and Bourn.

[Andy]

Hmmm... Cole's coming off a shut-out; the Fish are starting a guy with a 5+ ERA. In every previous year, I would expect the Phils to get blown out. Someone please tell me why I should not expect that tonight.

[Sophist]

Andy, I expect the same. Hamels is just no good.

[Mr J]

Andy: Think positive thoughts. This Phillies team reminds me of those from the late 70's. They expect to win and so should you. The season is long and the streaks are many. They'll win their share and be leading the division at the end of the season. Enjoy the ride!

[Sophist]

Mr J: That's just the Beerleaguer reverse-jinx talking.

[MG]

Agreed this game is really about Hamels. Phils don't need a dominant outing from him but a Win tonight is pretty important because it prevents any kind of chance for the Marlins to make up any real kind of ground in this series.

[denny b.]

Wes Helms batting clean up for Florida.

Yikes. A guy not good enough to make our club, hitting in the 4 hole against Hamels for the Fish.

Gotta get this one tonight. I think Werth gets it going tonight, possibly with a dinger.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Andrew Miller is no pushover. If he is on, he could completely dominate any lineup. If he is off, he could walk home a legless dog. He was not a first round pick for nothing. He absolutely dominated someone recently, and looked filthy doing it. I just hope it is bad Miller that shows up.

Glavine to DL, Jurrgens misses start tonight. Unless Braves have major talent in the minors, or they make a move, I think they are out of the race.

I'm still seeing no signs of life from the Mets. Which may be bad because they will probably fire Randolph and replace him with someone that actually knows what he is doing. Maybe Arizona State's manager. At least they could stage a realistic looking team fight.

[Hope SE]

MR. J: Re: late '70s team comparisons: The '76 and '77 teams won 101 games.

I don't think we're there yet. Would be nice, of course.

[bay_area_phan]

If I were going to be truly honest, I'd have to admit that, if the Marlins win 2 out of 3 -- or even all 3 -- it wouldn't really qualify as a disaster. But it would certainly qualify as a damn shame. The Braves and Mets are in all sorts of trouble, and the Marlins, on paper, really don't match up with the Phillies. If the Phillies are everything that we've been making them out to be, they should win the next 2 and really put a stranglehold on this division. If they only win 1 out of the next 2, it would be disappointing, but they'd still be in pretty good shape.

[Dave X]

How soon we forget... Hamels lost 7-3 vs the Marlins with Helms batting cleanup.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Someone mentioned that the Fish don't have any pitching other than Olsen. While that may be somewhat true at the moment, I think that could change in a heartbeat. Miller has major talent, and if he figures it out, he could be dominant. Ryan Tucker was recently called up and he has filthy stuff. If Miller comes around, Olsen stays consistent, and Tucker or another guy comes up and has a Dontrelle type performance in a rookie year, they could easily hold off until they get some guys off the DL.

[Sophist]

Parker - I don't know much about ASU manager, but I watched game two of their CWS matchup against Fresno St. With the tying run on second, and the go=ahead on first, ASU has their LF at the plate. His numbers were something ridiculous and he'd had 2 HR in game 1. ASU had him try to bunt twice.

[Sophist]

Jimmy's head just doesn't seem to be in the game. Not working counts, and his hesitation there cost Utley a chance to drive him in.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Sophist, I was kidding. He helped stage a fight in pre-game to distract Fresno State. They proceeded to lose that game and get eliminated from college WS.

[bay_area_phan]

why do i have a bad feeling about this whole series?

[fljerry]

Vic is sure hitting in tough luck. Last nights last out he smoked it but went right to first baseman - now he smokes this line drive right to second baseman

[curt]

Vic is snakebit.

[Sophist]

Wow, parker. I meant to see what happened in the third game. I had no idea.

[redbeard]

well, atleast it wasnt a three run shot...

[Sophist]

All these Marlins do is hit HR.

[MG]

Parker - That was me. I put money that Miller finishes year with "ok" stats but that still nothing to write home about. Just seems like he will be wildy inconsitent all year but not a guy you necessarily want to face either.

[curt]

If the Ace can't beat a lineup featuring Cantu & Helms at 3 & 4...

[fljerry]

I kinow we are in trouble when Utley and Howard strike out - gonna be a long night

[p. Red]

Helms sucks, but Cantu is playing well. And is absolutely on fire right now.

[MG]

I was surprised that Cantu floundered as badly as he did after the '05 season. He is a notorious hacker with a flawed swing but had nice spring in his bat.

Thought he would have been more productive over the past few years and been one of those multi-utility guys (because he is a mess in the field) in the AL who bounces around hitting for a relatively high AVG and some decent pop.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Ugh! Looks like good Miller showed up. When guys are swinging at that change down there, he has it working. Ugly swings so far.

[RSB]

Miller's stuff looks like it comes in on the hitters in a hurry, like there's something in his motion that prevents them from getting a good look at it. He's also got a pretty explosive slider.

[chris]

Shane is an absolute hoover out in center.

Losing his bat hurts, but I don't miss seeing rowands short legs running like the clappers out there.

[Mr. Mack]

Hey Sophist - that is the kind of managing from the ASU coach (Pat Murphy) we would love to see up in NY, huh? Perfect fit.

[Sophist]

Ruiz was screwed by the ump there.

[bay_area_phan]

Well, the hot streak was fun. Now we can go back to complaining about how much they suck.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Well, I may not have many that agree with me, but I'm saying the Fish are going to be in this until the end. They might finish a ways back in terms of games, but I like them to finish second in the league.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Division, not league.

[fljerry]

Heres a Marlins team who lost their best player and probably their best pitcher and they look like they will be in this pennant race all season

[Mr. Mack]

Miller is having no problems so far mowing them down. I think the small crowds lull the Phillies to sleep. The last thing they want to do is sleeping with the Fishes with Cole pitching. I suppose Cantu could be crowned as the latest Phillie-killer.

[Sophist]

If nothing else, Parker, they've always played the Phils well -- regardless of how many games back they finish.

[Mr. Mack]

Drill him Cole.

[Sophist]

jerry - MC and Willis were really good, no doubt, but I think Willis was a non-contributer for these guys last year and Ramirez is better than Cabrera.

[Sophist]

Willis' ERA+ last year was 83.

[Inside/Outside the Parker]

Any bets on Dontrelle turning into a position player like Ankiel? I wouldn't rule it out. He has a lot of power and is fast enough to play OF.

[Sophist]

Uggla has also replaced Cabrera's production so far this year (He's right around MC 150 OPS+ last year.)

[Sophist]

Hey, Jimmy: take some pitches.

[MG]

Both starters so far have brought their A game. Need to going to do the little things to win this game tonight.

[fljerry]

MG
Got to hit the ball for little things to happen.

[clout]

As I wrote the last time Miller pitched, his stuff is Grade A, his command is Grade D. But when his command is on, it's lights out for batters.

[redbeard]

sure wish jimmy didnt get picked off 2nd in the first inning

[bay_area_phan]

There are tons of guys out there with the good stuff/bad command combination. Why does their command always seem to be on whenever they face the Phillies?

[RSB]

Miller's stuff is all on tonight. They're not picking up his fastball and he's been changing speed and location masterfully. Hopefully Hamels can hold them, because Miller's more likely than not to start getting wild or make mistakes eventually.

[Ankit]

Andy: "When he makes contact..." is the part that makes me think he is not a prospect. He is not a 18/19 year old anymore. He is 22 (23 in September) and IMO he has not figured hitting out. The Phils as an organization have a track record of not being able to help improve batting eyes of young players so I have no hope of them help Greg.

[MG]

BAP - A bit different with Miller. Not a guy like Redding or even Nolasco last night. Miller has dominant stuff when he is like he is tonight.

[redbeard]

nice poke pedro

[bay_area_phan]

This guy is wild, so you've got to be patient when you face him. He's being made to look better because they keep swinging at everything.

[curt]

Just won $5 from the Mrs. after predicting that DP.

[RSB]

Shame on you, curt. That's way too easy.

[redbeard]

tsk tsk betting against your team

[Ribbies]

c'mon guys you CANNOT waste this outing from Cole. Let's start if off with a good at bad Jimmy!

[Sophist]

Honestly, I'd like to see Vic steal third here.

[Ribbies]

Finally! Way to go Chase!

[redbeard]

alright ut!

[Sophist]

All right!

[denny b.]

Pigs win game 1 of doubleheader versus Buffalo.

Happ gets win, pitching 5 innings, giving up 3 ER and striking out 6. Swindle comes in and pitches 2 scoreless innings to close it out, giving up 3 hits, but striking out 4 and walking none.

[RSB]

That's why he's The Man.

[timr]

Once again, Chase comes through, and Howard... not so much.

[MG]

Did Utley just overslide there?

[RSB]

I think we can call off the Happ Watch at this point.

[AFish]

Yes, Utley was so concerned that stone-hands Helms would turn two that he left the bag.

[MG]

Wow. The was so impressive gas (not of the flatulence kind). Really stellar ptiching tonight.

[Jack]

Cole needs to bear down and keep dealing. Can't let them get the lead right back here (cough, Myers, cough)

[MG]

Defense has been much steadier the past month or so. Making this starting rotation look much better.

[redbeard]

are you kidding me

[CubeHostage]

true story MG.

[MG]

Oh brother.

[Knight]

Well, so much for that.

[MG]

Hard for the defense to help you out when the ball isn't in play.

[Hydrant]

Friggin' Jorge Cantu and his damn acne face.

[Mr. Mack]

As I was saying earlier about Cantu being the newest Phillie killer...

[RSB]

Might want to stay away from the middle of the plate against Cantu next time, Cole.

[redbeard]

12 k's, 0 bb, 2 home runs to cantu

it doesnt add up.

[CubeHostage]

seriously? in the Rumblings and Grumblings column a little ways back now, Jayson Stark wrote about what he called Criminally Unsupported Starts. he defined these as starts where a starter got one or fewer runs in support. guess who was among the league leaders in this new stat? yup. our Philbos. they have about 10 in the first 60 games.

why do i feel as if the Phils almost invariably pull out a CUS with Hamels on the mound? i'm getting a little bit pissed about it too.

[MG]

RSB - Yeah. That was a meatball that Cantu just yanked out. Nothing special really about killing a mistake pitch.

Still tough to spot Hamels tonight. Seriously. 2 runs in 7 innings should be enough.

[GM-Carson]

Son of a bitch! Seriously, Jorge Cantu again? Dude has 3 jacks in 2 games in this series already and we could have had him playing 3rd base for damn near nothing, yet we have Pedro Feliz the Out Making Machine manning 3rd for millions...yippie!

Marlins are currently looking like the 1st place team, not the Phils. Ugh!

[joe l]

D'oh!

[Ribbies]

Dobbs?

[MG]

Cube - This offense has improved a bit since JRoll and Victorino has come back but still pretty dependent on the long-ball.

[Jack]

Dear Pedro Feliz: I've supported you. Please don't ground into a double play here....

[Sophist]

Dobbs - bring in Dobbs

[curt]

At least Vic will get one more AB. It's a sad commentary when he's the guy you most want to see at the plate.

[Jack]

Following the game online. Are they bringing in a righty now? If so, are we hitting Dobbs?

[MG]

WTF. Why is Pedro Feliz hitting here?

[Ribbies]

Can someone explain to me why Dobbs wasn't brought in?

[GM-Carson]

F.U. Pedro Feliz!!!

[Jack]

Well, it wasn't a double play? Gotta bring in Dobbs there.

[Brian G]

sometimes i feel like Feliz is trying to pop up.

[MG]

Nice AB Feliz. Ugh.

[MG]

Why did Cholly save Dobbs to hit for Hamels when Pinto can just come right back with another lefty?

Huge gaffe.

[Ribbies]

Jeezus Ruiz, what a pathetic game.

[bay_area_phan]

The more I see of Carlos Ruiz, the more I want to see of Lou Marson.