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Thursday, May 15, 2008

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Video of Wagner ripping his Mets teammates for ducking the media

http://mfile.akamai.com/22206/wmv/mlb.download.akamai.com/22206/2008/daiy/05/051508_oc_wagnerfbomb_400.wmv

If that doesn't work, the link is on Metsblog, where they used to brag about how well they'd play when they got those easy last place teams on the schedule, then went out and lost 3 of 4 to the Nats...

Here are the starting lineups:

Phillies
SS Rollins
RF Victorino
2B Utley
1B Howard
LF Burrell
CF Werth
3B Feliz
CA Coste
PI Hamels

Braves
SS Escobar
3B Infante
RF Francouer
1B Teixeira
CA McCann
LF Diaz
CF Kotsay
2B Gotay
PI James

Looks like we get a day without Chipper and Gotay at 2nd instead of Johnson. I think both are breaks for us.

Going back to whether Feliz should play when Kendrick starts, I think that should be left up to Kendrick. If he feels more comfortable pitching with Feliz behind him, then start Feliz. If it doesn't matter to him, then let's give him the extra run support.

To summarize: Feliz should only be starting against lefties or when Moyer starts, and if it matters to Kendrick, let him pitch during his starts, too. It's time to give Dobbs more opportunities against righties.

I like how Coste is in there again. In fact, I don't mind our lineup against lefties at all.

on prior thread where Clout blamed Madson, I can not disagree. I've been against Madson since season started and could never understand why all on here liked him. He was horrible last year and hes pitching as bad as he was then.
Good time to bring up that lefthanded reliever to take his place. Not sure if he can be sent to minors but we have to get rid of him.

If the plan is to give Dobbs more playing time at 3rd base, dump Taguchi and pick up another decent LH batter for the bench.

I want to see a big zero in the line score after the top of the 1st inning.

hitting the corners nicely, good start cole.

@Jim J -- Agreed. Moving Dobbs to 3rd more regularly weakens the bench.

Dobbs is probably the best Pinch Hitter in the game right now.

Re: Dobbs pinch-hitting

So what? I'd rather improve 3 plate appearances a game at the expense of 1.

Yes... this guy walks batters. Let's make sure he starts throwing us strikes before we let him off the hook.

Jeeee-zus Keeee-rist, Pat... don't you read this blog? What did I just type!?!?!?

Three fastballs to hit with men on base... Howard's went foul, Burrell's popped up and Werth's went foul. Game of inches...

Pete Happy!

Feliz once again answers his beerleaguer critics.

So, as I was saying earlier, it's a travesty that some people on this board think that Dobbs should be getting more starts. Feliz just doesn't get enough love from Beerleaguers.

GDP Feliz must have been reading the last thread before the game...

If Feliz was battng 8th, Coste would have been on base for that blast.

dobbs is a bench player, feliz is the starter.

The more sarcastic my post, the more supporters it seems to generate.

big boy go boom!

So is he officially out of his slump now?

PETE HAPPY says to CLOUT... WORST OFFENSIVE 3rd Baseman in the league???

TAKE THAT!!

sarge on feliz rbi single: "maybe another biscuit or two at breakfast and that balls outa here"

love it.

2-0 Fly-guys across the street.

Yeah, I really hate when Feliz kills our offense and doesn't bring anything on defense...

So Feliz has a .934 OPS against lefties. About the last thread, I saw clout claiming that he was never for keeping Helms, that he knew Helms was washed up - actually, as I recall, he said last year was an aberration vis-a-vis Helms's career norms, and that, since he's only 32, Helms would probably bounce back. So far, he's a lot worse than he was last season. Some of the other suggested improvements on Feliz, like Wigginton and Ensberg, are putting up substantially worse numbers than Feliz as well.

and now vic.

Cole is really dealing tonight

I was wondering about the wisdom of starting three lefties in a row. Maybe the guys have gotten used to it.

Then again, Feliz has been hot lately (you know, relative to him) and Vic and Howard might be coming out of their slumps.

Or maybe they all read BL and are tired of the criticism (in which case Bret will be long tossing til the cows come home).

Seriously, what's up with the Feliz hatin'? Burrell hatin' I can understand, he's got a long history of being a bum - but I'd think you'd at least give Feliz a chance before you trash him.

Are the Feliz haters the same folks that are booing Howard for having 1/4 bad season after one of the most spectacular early careers ever?

And there's the Feliz we all know and love.

joe- our definitions of "love" must be vastly different.

flipper: My first thought was to write one of my long, rambling posts in response to your assertion that Burrell "has a long history of being a bum," whereas Feliz has no track record upon which to be judged. But, on second thought, I will just leave it to clout to post the appropriate response. He will say whatever I would have said on this issue -- only with fewer words and more vitriol.

"love... to hate"? How's that?

Feliz's numbers project out to 25 homers, 80 RBI - not playing every day. What, exactly, would you expect?

flipper - Feliz has a long track record. Check out two career stats - P/PA and OBP. They kinda say it all - or at least most of it. Read the link posted by the sponsor of his B-Ref page. That says a lot, too.

He's simply not a good hitter. Tonight, however, he's just fine.

sometimes you gotta live with someone you love faults, pat the bat will always have long slumps but when hes good and steps up to the plate with an anger in his face, its the best

also we found out that he actually does care when he some how beat chris coste to hugging myers when they won the division, wow that seems like a long time ago

Cole Hamels - Supa Slugga!

Safe.

Sorry, I've seen Burrell do that sticking out his butt while taking a called third strike right down the middle of the plate with men on base way too many times to cut him any more breaks -- even if he has started to show some emotion. I guess I hold a grudge.

flipper: Feliz has played in 41 of 43 games this year and has started in the vast majority of them. And he's not on pace for 25 homers & 80 RBIs; it's 23 homers & a paltry 69 RBIs. The fact that he has managed to knock in 18 runs so far, despite hitting just .167 with RISP, might have a little something to do with the fact that he hits 2 spots after that bum, Burrell, who gets on base more than 43% of the time.

.167? Ouch. Ok, so I rounded up a tad on the projected numbers. Still, I'd say it's a bit early to pronounce him a bum. I have no such reservations with Burrell. I've suffered with that guy long enough.

I hope Charlie doesn't PH for Hamels here. I want to see Cole get his first Major League complete game shutout.

flipper: You probably suffered because of Abreu, too, right? Man, those high OBP guys are annoying, aren't they? Walks? You know what they say: nobody walks into the Hall of Fame! Ha! A walk is almost as bad as a K! I'd much rather have a contact hitter who swings early and tries to pull outside pitches. With those bums walking in front of him, he might hit into an absurdly high number of double plays, but at least he makes contact, right?

flipper: If your brother had a car for 8 years & it was in the shop every third week the entire time, do you really have to drive it yourself for a whole year in order to come to the judgment that the car is a lemon? It's not like Pedro Feliz is some unknown entity that we grabbed off the streets of San Pedro de Macaris. He comes to us with an 8-year track record which screams "Bum!"

The # 8 and 9 hitters in tonight's game are hitting .339 and .320 respectively.

AWH: The most important thing Cholly has taught me about baseball is that the catcher should always hit 8th, even if he has the highest BA on the team.

Nah, I pretty much liked Abreu. I thought he got a bum rap (pun intended). Basically, what I'm saying is that Feliz hasn't been that bad so far. Granted, that RISP is pretty abissmal, but as I recall, he's delivered some pretty big hits. I don't know about over his entire career, but I do know about Burrell. Yeah, he had a good second half last year in delivering in clutch situations, but over his career he's clinched in the clutch - if you get my drift.

That was awesome

Talk about a 180 from last night...

I love me some Cole Hamels.

Standing O.

Nice to take 2 of 3 from the Braves. And the BP gets a break after yesterday.

Flipper, you are an idiot if you prefer Feliz to Burrell. Burrell is top 5 in baseball since the all-star break last year and pretty good before that. Is this just an expectations thing?

Cole was awesome tonite. The first of many hopefully. Let's see the Phils give Hamels a Kazmir deal in the next year.

flipper: You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But if you want anyone to take that opinion seriously, you should at least do a Google search and look up a guys' stats before expressing opinions that fly in the face of 8 years worth of statistical evidence.

For his career, Burrell has hit .274 with runners on base, & .269 with RISP. Those numbers are .15 and .10 pts higher than his career average in general. That, by definition, makes him a very good clutch hitter, not a bad one.

I'm glad Cole got the complete game. It gave me the willies hearing the announcers say that JD Durbin was the last Phillie to pitch a complete game. Now I never have to hear that again.

Yeah i wish Cole would take the same deal Kazmir did. But he knows he can get much more than that

Cole Hamels: ACE!

Brett Myers: SPACE (cadet)!

BTW, I'll bet you can't guess which Phillies catcher called and caught the last complete game shutout (before Cole) that JD Durbin pitched last year in Petco?


Coincidence? Hmmmmmmm.

Did he really need to pitch the ninth? 120's a lot of pitches, especially when the game wasn't in doubt. Anyway, Feliz was a decent signing I'll continue to defend - but he's not anywhere close to being as good a hitter, in clutch situations or otherwise, as Pat Burrell.

If the bullpen had been as used as much, I guess I would have been against Hamels coming out for the 9th. All things considered, nice series win against an important division fow and more importantly it looks like the Big Man just might be awakening from his season long slumber (not to mention it is not to have JRoll back too).

Brett Myers aside, the Phils handled Atlanta nicely in this series. Other than last week, they have consistently been winning series and are now 1.5 and 2 games up on the Mets and Braves, respectably. I think the signs are still largely positive so far this season, and I also believe that the Mets and Braves aren't a whole lot better than they've shown so far.

With Rollins back, and the big man seemingly stretching his arms after a good night's sleep, I predict a lot less vitriol directed towards Pedro Feliz's offense, and a lot more to the starting pitching, Cole excepted.

By the way, did anyone else notice Diaz curse demonstratively twice, after swinging and missing at consecutive change ups to strike out?

Hey Beerleaguers, need I remind you that I predicted Hamels would throw a complete game shut out tonight?!?!

I didn't?? Well, I was happy to see his turn come up nonetheless. I guess he's over that 8th inning hurdle.

On whether Burrell is a bum, well, he has been a bum. I can't recall a single infuriating called strike three on him all year. I think he had about 200 of those from June 05 to june 07. I, for one, am willing to give the man the benefit of "what have you done for me lately?"

On whether Feliz is a bum, he ain't pretty to watch, but he gets just enough hits to plug a no. 8 hole. Wish tehre was a better option and think the Phils were a bit rash in giving him 2 years but, Scott Rolen aint' coming back folks. I think they're just happy to have someone to plug in the lineup at 3B who they think can field the position.

To whomever said Manuel shouldn't have let Hamels pitch teh ninth. Stick your pitch count in your ear. I don't care if they were ripping him in the 9th, let the man play the game. (And let him pinch hit instead of Taguchi, too).

To whomever suggested that Manuel should let Kendrick decide whether Feliz plays 3B, I suggest tehy take a team vote. Democracy instead of autocracy would be a great experiment in sports. I'm sure it would work great.

Finally, somebody tell Sidney Crosby to drop the damn stick before he swings his pu$$y-gloved hand at another man's head. Somebody might shove that thing up his a$$, if given teh opportunity.

Regarding the CG from Hamels. If you have been reading his quotes, he has been pushing himself to get into the 8th and 9th, when Manule normally would pull him. IF he was another pitcher.

He sets goals for himself. And tries to achieve them. Did you see his face when he came off the mound with the Blues Brother in the background. He had this sense of relief and accomplishment. I think Cole is the kind of guy who can build on these accomplishments.

In comparison, Myers is the type of guy, who is a been there done that. And assumes he's goign to do that each time. Instead of expects it from himself. Which I think is the difference between the two pitchers. Cole sets the goal and tries to achieve it. Myers thinks he's already reached the goal line and goes through the motions to get there.

Cole Hamels is an ACE. Great win for the phightins.

We could have swept the Braves this week. Even though Myers put us in the hole last night, I have confidence in the team if we are down 5 or 6 runs, we will get those runs back.

With that offense, Eaton can win 14 or 15 games.

Nice job by Feliz. And Howard might very well be back.


Only a few short on Shane Victorino's warnng track blast in game two of sweeping the Braves. Not Bad.

Pedro in the 7th hole in 2008:
.291/.317/.757

My point, exactly, mike c. Hamels will benefit from Manuel's confidence in him. He needs to get used to pitching 9 innings. That's what we want him to do. We can use Lidge and the next 5 closers we sign or groom when the otehr starters take their turns between now and 2015.

"That, by definition, makes him a very good clutch hitter, not a bad one."

Not in my book. I say that means he sucks less in the clutch than he ordinarily does. You do have a point re: my not knowing Feliz's career stats. But I'll stand by my statement that he's done a decent job so far, and we'll see what happens the rest of the way. We'll also see what happens with Burrell the rest of the way. My prediction is that he'll revert to form, and the boos will be heard at the Linc when Pat comes to bat.

Great win tonight for a lot of reasons.

-A nice boost and a milestone for Hamels. I concur that he's the kind of guy who will take a successful outing and build on it. This is what an ace does. A tough game last night against a division rival and a let down by the number two staff member? No problem. Cole goes out there and lays a tough loss on the Braves in the final game of the series. The position players have to love this, especially after watching those homers fly over their shoulders last night.

-Ryan seeming to begin to break out of his slump.

-Nice to have Rollins back day to day. He will only get better as the season wears on and he gets back in the groove.

-A night off for the pen.

-An "easy" game for the team. The come from behind fireworks are exciting, but nice to see them come out and take care of business.

-As much as losses like the Roberson sunglasses debacle last year against Atlanta hurt and are tough to bounce back from, crisp decisive wins like this set a positive tone that carries over. It's great to learn how to grind back from adversity, but the next step in the progression is learning how to take and keep command.

Time to enjoy what's left of the evening and pick up worrying about what to do about Myers tomorrow.

Flipper, the Eagles play in the Linc, not the Phils. Burrell's average season numbers are good. I think he'll slightly outhit those this year.

Doh!

flipper: Which stat(s) are you looking at which lead you to the conclusion that Pedro Feliz has been "decent" this year, but Pat Burrell sucks? I can think of no offensive statistic -- literally none -- where Pedro Feliz is on pace to out-perform what Pat Burrell would give us in an average season -- or even, for that matter, a below average one.

My point is simply this. I've suffered through Burrell swinging at pitches he can't reach and taking strikes down the middle of the plate for years. Apparently he does that less with men on base than with the bases empty - but it makes more of an impact on me when he does it in the clutch - so those affect my opinion of him more. (BTW, Any stats on game winning hits? How about his average in late innings?)

So, Burrell has baggage in my fandom. Feliz is pretty much a clean slate - I'm judging him by what he's done with the Phillies, and so far, it seems decent. Not to mention the obvious - that Burrell is a liability in the field (although, admittedly, he's looked better this year than in years previous). Feliz hasn't been stellar in the field so far - but passable. No one is looking for Feliz to be a main cog in the offense. It's different with Burrell - so yeah, I judge him by a different standard. So sue me.

Well, I see I'm wasting my time. You've made up your mind that Burrell sucks, and no amount of statistical evidence is going to overcome the fact that he takes a few too many called third strikes, and sometimes fails in clutch situations. When Burrell was hitting .209 during the 2003 season, you made up your mind that he sucks. The fact that he has since transformed himself into one of the top 15 all-around offensive players in the National League is not going to change your opinion.


Long time to hold a grudge--Burrell has been a more-than-solid player since the all star break last year, and showed plenty of heart to boot. Lay off him, flipper.

Enough about Feliz. There is no reason why he shouldn't start against lefties like James tonight. He will hit the occasional HR like tonight to contribute but more often than not he will be the worst regular in the lineup.

Hamels is the man. I was watching highlights on a couple of his strikeouts on sportscenter and 2 of the pitches looked like sliders? Was that just his changeup with some downward movement?

No, Victorino's the worst regular in the lineup right now. Six stolen bases don't mitigate a .589 OPS. Ruiz is worse too, but I guess he isn't quite a regular anymore.

It was no contest in this game of opposing lefthanders.

Cole Hamels was simply brilliant. After the Braves #2 hitter singled in the first, Hamels retired the next 15 hitters he faced. The next guy to reach on Hamels was Gregor Blanco who singled to centerfield in the sixth inning.

James only lasted four, being pounded for 3 Phillie homers.

As for the Mets, a bunch of over-raated underachievers lacking work ethic, lacking hustle. I get the feeling that Wagner would rather be elsewhere. But not in Philly 'cause we got Lidge! Hope the Mets enjoy looking up at a real team -- Our Phillies!!

I love how people still bash Burrell for one bad year in 2003. So he didnt turn into Michael Jack when it comes to power...get over it, not every prospect fulfills the expectations that scouts have for them. I hate corner OFs that average 30 HRs/95 RBIs and get on base 40% of the time...go look up how many of them are out there and get back to me. Chase Utley say he's the hardest worker on the team and his favorite teammate...I guess Chase is a bum too.

On Feliz, he is the least of our issues. We can win with him at 3B, we can't win with horrible starting pitching. Unless you have the Yankees payroll, you have to have some less than perfect solutions at some positions. Feliz does a great job in the field and he isn't hurting us that badly in the #7 hole. His career norms would be fine as along as the rest of the offense continues to play like it has lately. If you're gonna whine about weaknesses on the roster, why not focus on the abysmal starting pitching outside of Hamels?

Good Morning!!!!!!

Yay!!!!!

PS Could not be more pleasd to see that Coste caught this game.

7 Starts for Coste in the last 15 games...UC's been basically splitting the catching duties 50/50 since May 1. I see Coste getting around 450 ABs this year if this keeps up and he keeps hitting. There's not a huge difference defensively between the two so there's no real reason to put Ruiz in over Coste. Ruiz hits better against rights than lefties but Coste hits both equally well and at a much higher level than Ruiz so honestly Coste should get the bulk of the playing time as long as he keeps performing.

Awesome game Cole! Thanks, we needed that.

Howard seeming to get back on track, 7 game hitting streak...we can only hope.

Jason, for the record, now I'll heard over to Philly.com.

Good win last night, but then, aren't all wins good wins? They all count the same in the standings.

It is nice, though, to see an extremely well pitched game, ON OUR SIDE.


Lastly, I was surfing on steMsblog last night. Wagner is getting ripped by some for his comments by many of the steMheads. I posted a couple of times that I actually thought he was right.

In looking through some of the other threads it occured to me that as negative as we get on this site about the Phillies from time to time, they really should change the name of that town to Nega York.

It's only May, their team has a winning record and is still in the hunt, and they're screaming for their manager's head and acting as if the entire city is filled with nuclear fallout.

The sense of entitlement pervasive. They really thought that when the steMs acquired Santana that they were going to run away with the division. They forgot that this Phillies team never quits and that you still have to play the games.

Besides, the Braves and Marlins have been pretty good so far also.

I wonder what the commentary over there is going to sound like in September if the steMs haven't run away with it, or, worse yet, they're looking up at a couple of teams.

That should read: I'll "head" over to Philly.com.

The funny thing about Wagner's comments is that he was completely accurate but also completely wrong for ratting out his teammates to the press like that...again. He is a cancer in that lockerroom (just like he was here) and I hope he keeps it up. I hate Billy Wagner but I love what he's doing to the Mets right now.

On Howard: I think that Howard is back...he's batting .286 this past week and he's looked very solid at the plate...he's not just lunging at anything anymore.

AWH - the Mets fans forgot that Santana only pitches every 5 days. Of course, he improves the rest of the rotation by moving everyone back a spot, but that assumes the rotation was competent in the first place.

phargo -
6:46 am Eastern time...that's like 4:46 your time, right? How early do you get up?

Very psyched about Hamel's game last night.

In re: flipper and Burrell...
1) flipper, you can, indeed, hold your opinion; but if you base it on the samples you've chosen (Feliz's 2008 vs. Burrell's 2003), you need to understand that it is not founded in reality. If you wish to compare numbers, either use this season's to this point or their career numbers. In either case Burrell looks much much much much better. Much.

2) Do this one (just one) comparison. Go to Baseball Reference and look at their OPS+ for every year. Comepare the two. They are numbers adjusted for where they play and when. OPS+ is a good predictor of offensive ability. (There are better ones, which increase the value of OBP - but if you use those Burrell looks even better compared to Feliz.)

3) A line-up of Felizes, if it came up with 9 hits, would make the opposing pitcher throw 119 pitches in a game. Against a line-up of Burrells, the pitcher would have to throw 151.

A straight up comparison of Burrell and Feliz, as hitters, isn't my point.- any more than a straight up comparison of them as fielders would be.

Feliz has done reasonably well in living up to limited expectations. No one expected him to be a big part of the offense. Given the rest of the lineup, it's not what's needed from him. The need someone to hit decently and field well - which he's done. So I don't get why the rancor towards him.

There is no reason for Burrell to be in the major leagues except for his production as a hitter. If he had performed consistently over his career like he has the last 3/4 of a season - no problem at all. But my guess is that by the end of the year he will revert to form: looking clueless at the plate more often than not, and often in crucial situations. I will be more than happy to admit that I'm wrong if it turns out that way.

But seriously, in all your statistical justification for why Burrell isn't a bum, have you ever thought about why the Phillies weren't able to trade him for a bag of balls? Is it that you guys have some deep insight that the major league GMs lack?

flipper: But seriously, in all your statistical justification for why Burrell isn't a bum, have you ever thought about why the Phillies weren't able to trade him for a bag of balls?


Well for one, he has a full no-trade clause. Beyond that, its for the same reason that the Red Sox put Manny on waivers a few years back...he has a large contract and at the time he still had a few years on that contract that teams didn't want to pick up.

Flipper, do me a favor: Go get me a list of corner outfielders that average 30 HRs, 95 RBIs and get on base 40% over the past 4 seasons...I guarantee it won't be a long list.

An honest question: Were the terms of Manny's contract really comparable to those of Burrells? And as I recall, Manny was acting even more flaky than usual around that time - which would add to GMs reluctance to pick him up off of waivers.

Given that ya'll seem to think that Burrell is actually one of the top 15 hitters, you'd think that during an off-season when the Phillies were presumably pretty hot to pick up some starting pitching, and given that the Phils probably felt that given their lineup offense was somewhat dispensable, that they'd have been able to get a reasonable return for Burrell in a trade. You really believe that no team acceptable to Burrell would have offered a decent pitcher for one of the top 15 hitters in the league?

Let me ask you for an honest reaction. Late innings, men on base, Philles a run or two behind, and Burrell stands in against a tough pitcher. What is your level of confidence?

The point being that you can create a picture through statistics, but what, really, is your gut reaction when Burrell's up at a crucial point in the game. Somehow, I think that there's a tad more than 15 players that I'd rather see batting for my team in such a situation. You?

That he'll get on base? Actually pretty good. He has a good eye, walks alot, and can and has hit it deep in big situations before...just ask Billy Wagner. In a late-innings situation, here's my order of Phillies I like to see:

1. Chase Utley
2. Jimmy Rollins/Pat Burrell
4. Ryan Howard


On your earlier comment: Manny at $20 million per vs. Pat at $15 million per...pretty similar when you consider the difference in skill between the two. My point was that teams consider contracts a big issue...even with Manny on waivers no team would touch him. Considering that Manny's probably the best pure hitter in the past 20 years that's pretty amazing despite his "Mannyness". I would consider that similar to no team wanting to trade for Burrell before last season. He wasn't really on the market this last off-season so that doesn't count. Besides, the only pitching on the market this off-season was from teams looking to cut payroll but gain high-level prospects of which the Phils had none.

Seriously? You'd rather see Burrell standing in than Howard? And personally, again based on what I've seen with my very own eyes, I'd put Coste ahead of Burrell. Part of the problem is that it seems Burrell is often looking for walks in those situations, rather than thinking aggressively. And it screws with his head.

Anyway, I'd venture a guess that Howard has twice as many game-winning hits as Burrell in a much shorter career. Do you have stats on Burrell's game winning hits/ late innings BA?

How many years were left on Manny's contract at the time? Beside Manny getting paid a full 1/4 more that year (when, even though not long ago, 5 mil was worth more than 5 mil now), what were the relative contract obligations going forward? What's your evidence that Burrell wasn't "really on the market" this past off-season?

Flipper I think you're haunted by the ghost of Pat Burrell 2003. He had one bad season and 4 straight very productive seasons...Which is the real Burrell? I'm thinking the 2004-2008 Burrell is real:

Average season from 04-07: .264 avg, .387 obp, 28 HRs, 98 RBI. That's a pretty respectable line.

Coste has all of around 70 PAs this year...hardly a legitimate sample size. And yes I'd rather have Burrell up there than Howard. Howard strikes out 200 times a year, Burrell doesn't. I'd be fairly confident in any of those 4 being up there. You asked how would I feel with Burrell up there...I'd like his chances of getting on base. Maybe Howard has more game-winning hits but he also has a ton of game ending strikeouts as well. I'm not saying Howard isnt as good a player as Burrell, both are good in their own right and both have huge flaws in their overall game.

Manny had at least 4 years left and he has been at around the top of his game all 4 years so its a moot point. Also, the $5m difference is easily nullified by the difference in talent. Manny=1st ballot HoF, Burrell=Hall of very good corner outfielders...slight difference there.

My "proof" that he wasn't seriously shopped is that we didn't hear even the slightest legit rumor of it happening unlike other seasons. Also, they had no real other options in LF even if they did trade him.

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