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Friday, May 23, 2008


clout: Calm down. I don't have the time or inclination to do through 100's deep comment pages looking for your posts. I told you several times that it was my recollection that you preferred the status quo of Helms/ Dobbs to acquiring Feliz, that you thought a Helms/ Dobbs platoon would out perform Feliz. I asked you multiple times to clarify that, and this is the first time you've done so. That said, I'll take you on your word that you didn't. Just relax a bit, will ya. This is spoused to be fun.

For the record:

I'm the one who said a strict right/left platoon of Helms/Dobbs would be better for this team than Pedro Feliz. The only caveat however was that it would be tough to have two platoons if the Phils were committed to Jenkins/Werth in RF.

I still believe that a strict platoon of Helms/Dobbs would be offensively superior to Pedro Feliz and that the the difference would NOT be offset by what Feliz brings to the team with his glove.

Feel free to disagree. What's not in dispute is that Pedro Feliz is a bad hitter.

Morty: "my recollection that you preferred the status quo of Helms/ Dobbs to acquiring Feliz."
Actually that's not what you said at all. Here's is what you said: "you've consistency ducked your off season advocacy in favor of the status quo Helms/ Dobbs platoon."

I assume you know the difference between saying that Feliz is no upgrade over Helms/Dobbs and "advocating a Helms/Dobbs platoon" rather than upgrading the position. Try to be a little more honest in the future. Thanks.

This is for the Florida fan who was curious about our thoughts on the Marlins as a serious threat to win the East:

Here is what would make me take the Marlins seriously: If they get Anibal Sanchez and Josh Johnson back before the end of the season and they pitch like they did before surgery. If that happens, the Marlins would have the best pitching in the East, which could offset a weak offense. Without that, you don't have the offense to contend all season.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think Willingham and Uggla will end the season with OPS over 1.000 and Jacobs over .900. Ain't happenin'.

Here is hoping that Eaton can get through at least 5 tonight. With the way the Astros have been hitting, I am predicting an early appearance from Durbin.

clout: Eh?

Furthermore, countering a discussion about counting stats (HR's, RBI's) with a measuring stat (OPS) does not rank high in intellectual honesty yourself.

Morty: OPS+ is generally agreed to be the best measure of a player's offense. HR and RBI are not, for obvious reasons. I'm surprised you don't know that.

I was another one who believed that a Dobbs/Helms platoon would be better than Feliz. And I still think so to this day.

That said, I won't really quarrel with those who say that our third base situation is slightly better this year than it was last year. My biggest objection to the Feliz signing was the financial aspect of it. With major pitching problems, and a self-imposed budget of around $95M, they paid $8.5M for a very marginal upgrade whose signing left another $2.5M player without a roster spot -- thereby requiring him to be given away for nothing. That, in effect, is $11M spent on a minor upgrade.

clout: Slowly, let's reconstruct this: I said: "That's what the pro Feliz argument has been saying: this guy can get you 25/ 80 and provide a very solid glove. I know those are just numbers, and not a very deep picture, but they still count nonetheless."

You responded with a stat about his HR/AB, a number that counts.

I asked you to qualify that by park factor, whereby you responded with a totally different stat, one that measures. OPS cannot tell you how many HR's a player will hit. HR/ AB can.

You do understand the difference between counting and measuring right?

BAP: like I've said, the financial argument is the strongest anti-Feliz argument in my eyes.

What exactly is this Zimmerman rumor that keeps getting mentioned? It makes no sense at all. Is there a mention of what the phillies would "offer" were this to have any grounding, which seems so unlikely? The only thing I could think of is a trade involving Myers...and why trade pitching for offense with this team? This can't have any basis in reality.

lekh- it has no basis. the rumor that was going around was Feliz for Zimmerman... but of course there is no way that is even possible. The Nats may suck, but that doesn't mean they've lost their marbles.

Clout said, as I recall, that Helms/Dobbs would be better than Feliz/occasional use of Dobbs, but he never said that Helms/Dobbs was his preferred solution at third base. Rather, he was in favor of people like Ensberg, Crede, etc.

theory: wow, i can't believe that made it out of someone's ass and onto the internet...

morty: Wrong again! OPS+ includes HRs.

I seriously thought that the Zimmerman rumor was just a joke...I can't believe someone actually thought that it was serious.

clout: You can be a lot like talking to wall.

morty: Let me spell it out. If you want to praise Feliz for his HR hitting skills you need to be aware of his ABs. But the best way to measure his offense, which includes his ability to hit HRs, is OPS+. capice?

So if Eaton goes 3 innings and gives up 6 runs tonight, do the Phillies drop him to the bullpen, release Condrey, and bring up Happ to replace Eaton in the rotation?

From previous;
With the exception of the last post, it's nice to see a little objectivity here regarding Feliz. No, he isnt Mike Schmidt, and maybe he isn't the best the Phils could have acquired, but he is hitting well and we can only hope that he can continue the improvement. I know this is painful, but if your gonna bag on him for not performing, then give him a little credit when he does. (What's not in dispute is that Pedro Feliz is a bad hitter..great way to begin and end a discussion!)

OK, commence complaining!

clout: don't go away mad, I intended my comment that "you're like talking to a wall" as a compliment.

Morty: Would would I be mad? Your posts speak for themselves. I'm simply pointing out the facts.

JD: Do you work for the Phillies PR dept? Seriously. I bet you're an intern there.

JD: I am officially giving Pedro Feliz for having three straight good games.

Okay... now that I've "given him a little credit when he does good," I'll remind everyone that he had an OBP of .270 prior to his 3 game hot streak! ;-)

Clout: Sure.

Let's get back on topic: When he ends his career, will Pedro Feliz be considered a great 3rd baseman, or the greatest? I'm going to be a bit wishy washy, and say somewhere between all-star and hall of fame.

To seriously get back on topic, if Werth isn't playing we'll need Jenkins to join the party because this promises to be a slug-fest tonight.

Morty: I respect your love for Feliz, no matter how irrational.

JD- objectivity? Lately, Feliz is hitting well. In the first month he wasn't. In his career, he's proven to be an undisciplined and relatively poor hitter for AVG, who makes outs at a league low rate, and hits a homer every now and again.

His defense is good. Better than Dobbs.

The Phils probably paid too much (in opportunity cost and probably in the direct cost for his contract) than they should have.

Using a platoon of Dobbs/Feliz, at least in the early season and until Dobbs proves he can't continue to hit, the Phils could probably get more production (as measured by things like OPS+ and P/PA) than they would using only one of them from 3B and the 6th/7th hole. This production would likely off-set the loss of defense on days when Dobbs starts, and the loss of PH ability on those same days.

This, in summation, is what people here have been saying for months (except the part about Feliz' recent success - people can't see into the future; and, afterall, the Phils have been facing many pitchers this month that favor the Feliz side of the platoon.)

Where is the objectivity lacking there?

Watching "the game 365" on CSN on Utley. This guy is amazing. Humble, soft-spoken, and hard-working. Sets simple goals and knows how to best achieve them.

Morty: By the way, Jenkins is 13 for his last 34 (.382) so I'd say he's currently the life of the party.

Clout-Yes, and I'm trying really hard for a raise but you know how cheap they are.

JD: Well, keep up the good work and maybe they'll let you try to improve Ruben Amaro's image. I was going to say the owners' image, but that's an impossible task.

Off-beat prediction of the night: Eaton pitches 7 innings and allows just 1 run.

I thought you were going to say Adam Eaton, but I gave up on that a long time ago. I don't have the stomach for it.

BAP, I tried that one game last year and as usual for Eaton, it started fine and ended ugly, but I'll back you on it anyway. Someone besides his mother has to root for him, so as the unofficial PR guy for the Phils, I'll accept the task.

Clout - Yeah but Jenkins still is hitting way too many singles. He has mixed in a few doubles (nice start) but it would be nice to see the some more hitting with runners on and driving the ball out of the park.

I was looking at the Iron Pigs' boxscore for tonight & I noticed that the opposing pitcher is Tomo Ohka. Talk about a guy who has fallen off the face of the earth. For most of this decade, he was a pretty reasonable, if injury-prone, back-end starter. Now he's 0-7 with a 6.12 ERA at AAA.

This game tonight has all the makings of last night's game. Marginal starting pitching and a guy that will be determined by the bullpen and bench. Have to figure that favors the Phils as long as Eaton doesn't put up one of his really crap outings (say 3+ IP with 5-6 runs)

Don't worry, MG. 7 innings, 1 run. I've never been more certain of anything in my entire life.

Eaton's mother has long since given up on him. ... that should fulfill my reverse curse duties for the night.

clout: what does batting average prove? That he's gotten on base through the action of his bat hitting the ball? Tell me how many versions of "No Woman, No Cry" he sung on the acoustic guitar before declaring him the life of the party.

My prediction:

5.1 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 3 K, 1 HR

Morty, it was the lampshade he wore in the clubhouse that did that. His version of the song was at best mediocre.

My prediction:

5.1 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 3 K, 1 HR

I think you have to play Feliz more than in just a platoon. That being said I would like to see Dobbs start a game or two a week.

Is anyone else sick of getting ready to watch a game that Adam Eaton is pitching in? Can we not try J.A. Happ for a few games. He can't be any worse than Eaton.

I'm gonna go way way out on a very very small limb and predict a win for Eaton tonight.

~I even sober despite that prediction.

At this point, I dread Myers starts more than Eaton starts. Of course, the expectations for Eaton were lower going in.

Myers has made Eaton much more watchable.

Eaton I know sucks...Myers just doesn't care enough to learn how to actually pitch.

Any chance Myers will go back to the pen?

Yes, but does watching Myers make you long for Joe Table?

Apparently the DBacks are taking out their frustration at getting swept by the Fish by killing the Braves...5-0 in the 1st.

Premise: The Jenkins/Werth platoon is the best Phillies platoon since 1993.


~ignores the fact that Werth is now a "starter"~

And for now, the Giants are beating the Fish

My bold prediction:
Feliz, after being anointed by Chollie as going to set new career highs, will go 0 - 4, with two IF pop-ups and 2 GIDPs.

Oh, Andy, you naysayer you! It's only 1 GIDP.

I don't buy that Andy...he'll strikeout in a critcal 2-out AB at some point as well.

Lofton/Michaels combined for pretty decent results. I can't really remember many other true platoons in recent years.

I'll say 2 for 5 with an RBI. And I'll throw in a GIDP just so no one's head explodes.

I'll say 2 for 5 with an RBI. And I'll throw in a GIDP just so no one's head explodes.

Good point Steve...that was a good platoon...batted well over .300 with okay power for CF.

I also predict he sees no more than 9 pitches on the night. (P. Happy that is.)

So I guess us bashing Utley wasn't the smart play...

Giants 5-1 over the Fish...3rd inning

Giants 5-1 over the Fish...3rd inning

Feliz has balls. Masterful.

Adam Eaton=3 up, 3 down.

Has Werth/Jenkins even functioned as a platoon over the season. It seems like a platoon in name only, with Vic's injury and all those Werth CF Vic RF starts.

Any one notice that certain crowds seem to be full of tweens screaming during plays after the ball is put in play? I've noticed this in Houston, St Louis, and Arizona. Philly crowds have many faults; I'm glad a mall-like atmosphere isn't one of them.

Tough luck for the Phils on the hit and run in the first. Love the aggressive call though. Feet from a likely score.

Pat the bat.

hes back


PtB !

Pat the Bat!!!

All credit goes to flipper

****Any one notice that certain crowds seem to be full of tweens screaming during plays after the ball is put in play? I've noticed this in Houston, St Louis, and Arizona. Philly crowds have many faults; I'm glad a mall-like atmosphere isn't one of them.****

I've noticed that any stadium outside the Northeast has an atmosphere like that...Boston, NY, Philly all are intense unlike most any other places.

Andy, he's only got 4 pitches left!

I hate that Jenkins uppercut.

Wrigley had a good atmosphere even though the stadium itself is a cesspool.

Take that Berkman!!!

Eaton is pitching a no hitter going into the 3nd inning. That's big.

Adam Eaton= 6 up, 6 down.

So for those of us who are only following on Gameday... does Eaton actually look like he's pitching well... or is he just getting lucky?

Eaton has solid innings. What he needs to avoid is the BIG inning, which comes like a whatevere in the night - out of nowhere, etc..

Don't mean to bad mouth St Louis baseball fans in general in the above. Baseball is the sport of St Louis.

eaton does this all the time. he'll meet his crap inning eventually. lets just hope he can delay it for as long as possible.

No, Eaton actually looks good. So far.

I've always wanted to see a game in St. Louis...they didn't have any games when I was driving cross country (out of town that week) so we stopped in Wrigley instead...

From those who can actually see the game...Just how does Eaton look so far?

I like that shot from behind the plate this Houston crew has: slightly tilted.

Now let's see how hot Howard is.

ooch. nasty curve

Struck him out!

Nice pitch on Howard.

Eaton looks good. Great change-up to Berkmann, but Lee just missed one - so, it seemed, did Pence.

But, as was said, Eaton is prone to big innings. How he looks as he goes usually isn't important - unless his big inning comes after many innings in which he's getting out of jams. No jams yet, but some hard hit outs.

NEfan - Cardinals games are great. Great stadium, friendly, devoted but not intense fans. A really well-coached team - which is way, regardless of predictions, they put together good teams.

There goes Eaton's no-hitter.

Ty Wigginton=Phillies Killer

Oh, and to end this tangent, Cards games are expensive. Noticably more expensive in every way than Phils games, despite the location.

Can't be as bad as Fenway on cost.

Another nice inning by Eaton.

Good job getting out of the inning without giving up any runs.

"All credit goes to flipper"

Thanks, I do think I deserve full credit for Burrell pulling out of his slump.

In addition, I'd also like to point out that I had to turn off the game just before Burrell's at bat. It never fails that the Phils make a good play as soon as I turn off the game.

Fenway costs a fortune and a half

Any thoughts on Michael Bourn regarding how good he could be IF he got on base

Best stadium in all of baseball though...nothing personal to CBP.

I think that's why we had no issues on trading him...he CAN'T get on base unless he's a pinch runner.

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EST. 2005

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