Arbitrary Wade/Gillick comparison/contrast thread

Safe, low-end free agents with no upside/waiver wire roll of the dice; No-trade clause/option years; At the non-waiver trade deadline/after the non-waiver trade deadline; Ruben the apprentice/Ruben the heir; Keep them in the farm/welcome to the show; Scouting Australia/scouting Europe; Raw position talent/raw pitching talent; Ducey for Ducey/sold back to original club for $25,000; Sweater vests/Hawaiian shirts; Media scrutiny/free pass; Build through the farm/round out the edges; "We saw this coming from a mile away!"/"Who?"; Utility infielder/12th pitcher; Marginal relievers with good command/marginal relievers with good stuff; Andy Ashby/Adam Eaton; National League connections/Seattle connections; Low-leverage trades/salary dump.

Comments

[EastFallowfield]

Traded for Geoff Geary/Traded Geoff Geary

Traded Brad Lidge/Traded for Brad Lidge

Traded for Michael Bourn/Traded Michael Bourn

Traded Eric Bruntlett/Traded for Eric Bruntlett

Traded Mike Costanzo/Traded Mike Costanzo

[Morty]

Funny stuff, Jason. About the only difference in strategy that has actually made a difference is Gillick's willingness to fast track minos leaguers if it looks like they can contribute.

[E]

they both sucked. maybe those draft picks were under "Wade's watch" but we all know, and even Amaro acknowledged this morning in the paper, that Arbuckle and Wolever drafted Howard, Utley, Rollins, Hamels, etc. they both pretty much blow

[MG]

Ha ha. Forget to add one:

Lived and worked in Philly/Worked? in Philly

[J. Weitzel]

Lived and worked in Philly/lived out of suitcase

[Dave X]

Beerleaguer/SirAlden

[GM-Carson]

I swear that I'm not trying a cheap plug for my blog, but check out the picture of Ed Wade and tell me he doesn't look like a shaven scrotum? http://pabaseball.blogspot.com

[Sophist]

GM - I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, after that pitch, most people won't go to that link.

[Matt]

They both stink. We need fresh blood. Gillick's a self-professed anti-Moneyballer. His generation of by-the-gut GMs is quickly fading to memory. Give me a 32-year-old Harvard grad who's not afraid to take chances.

[MG]

JW - This comparison is more funny and spot on than I have seen anyone in the media put out.

[joe l]

I always thought he was a ringer for Mr. Mackey

[Bedrosian's Beard]

Same budget/Same budget

[clout]

Matt: You want Barack Obama as GM?

[mw_217]

Carson - ewww...

what's around his mouth? he looks like he just ate one of those big red "bubble play" ice cream gloves (remember those?)

[MG]

Amaro on Wade from the Daily News today:

"I don't think he's remembered in the right light. And the reason I say that is that a lot of the fans and a lot of the people here in this city have very short memories," he said. "None of us makes perfect moves. But a lot of the things we did were, one, necessary at the time and, two, beneficial to our club. Jim Thome. Kevin Millwood. You know, a lot of people talk about these moves as if they were not great moves. These were moves that really helped turn our organization around."

Amaro is the perfect social climber in this organization. Polished and always dropping the proper comment. This won't work so well so though when he becomes the GM and he is forced to make some hard decisions (like they will by the 2010 season regarding some key parts of this team).

Smart money says that in 18 months or so that Amaro will be the favorite whipping boy in Philly sports.

[GM-Carson]

MW_217: I think those are herpes. Seriously, Wade looks like a nutsack.

[Squonk64]

I am sorry for leaving an response to an old thread. But really, ae clout, Verdeforce, and Brian REALLY THAT STUPID? I mean, come on, I hope that people who post here have some common sense.

And, by the way, thank you Jason for airing your blogs dirty laundry. These people gotta get a grip, fast, or their gonna die, soon.

Not from me, I am figuring a cardiac infarction.

Smile. Be happy. The Phillies achieved the minimum, winning two of three in a series at home. Why all the unhappy faces?

[joe l]

NYTimes: Fans Have Not Forgotten, or Forgiven, the Mets - well boo hoo guys, especially to Mr. Wagner after he bitched about the fans here.

[Bob]

Gillick has been better at the trade deadline than Wade.

[ae]

But really, ae clout, Verdeforce, and Brian REALLY THAT STUPID?

is this a typo? or am I also stupid?

[Andy]

Carson - nice photo. Your stuff is always hilarious.

[Andy]

IMO there is a significant enough difference in the draft strategies to impute the hand of the two GMs.

In the Wade era the Phils really went after position player tools guys like Bourn, Roberson and Golson. Oh, and Moss. Bourn has been the best so far - and may in the end be the best.

In the Gillick era they've been filling up on big College pitchers - guys like Carpenter, Brauer, Kissock, Chapman, Brummett etc. We'll know beginning about 2010 the extent to which this has worked.

In both ears, however, they've also tried to nail the unexpected tee shot to 5 feet of the hole: Golson and Hamels, for instance and Drabek and Savery. Utley, I think could be described in this category - and Howard, too. I have to think this is a hallmark of Arbuckle drafting strategy: look for someone other folks have overlooked for some reason, and hope that you can steal thunder. I kind of don't mind this approach, since if you're not going to pay over slot to get HS guys who are eventually gonna be stars, then you've gotta do something to improve your chances.

Other than restocking the Phils minor league pitching, however, I have trouble discerning any long-term good from Gillick. (Except for Jayson Werth's 4.5 P/PA.)

[Brian G]

ae: I think you're off the hook, as you weren't quoted on the main page the other day venting frustration about Utley's day.

I'd like to offer a witty response to Squonk's unintelligible rambling, but that'd be like finding a good comeback for when a duck comes up and starts quacking at you. What can you say?

[Brian G]

Andy: "Other than restocking the Phils minor league pitching, however, I have trouble discerning any long-term good from Gillick." ... that would be a pretty solid long term good. Not sure what else you'd be looking for as far as long term upgrades go.

I would say Gillick's best attributes have been the contributions he's gotten from Value Village types like Werth/Romero/Dobbs. Also, how he refuses to make marginal signings if they will lose him draft picks.

Wade's best move by far was signing Rollins long term. I wasn't crazy about it at the time, but at this point it is an ingenious bargain.

[Jeltz For the Hall]

Brian: Quack?

This whole argument is like comparing which venereal disease is better. Can't we agree that they both suck, get a shot, and go home promising to never (EVER) do this again?

[ROB]

How about this Wade/Gillick? caught in a tree with a parachute/flyin by the seat of his pants

[Tray]

This is a fun article for all you Borowski fans (clout). My favorite part:

Borowski, who led the American League with 45 saves last year, started the ninth with what appeared to be a slo-pitch softball offering to Julio Lugo...

Then came Ramirez. He sent Borowski's first pitch into the left-field bleachers for the eventual game-winner. It was the 493rd homer of his career, tying him with Lou Gehrig and Fred McGriff for 24th on the all-time homer list.

"I had nothing," said Borowski. "I was stuck in one gear."

Ramirez seemed stunned by the pitch Borowski threw him.

"It seemed like a fastball," he said. "It was something like 80 mph. Maybe it was change-up. It was right there."

I feel like I'm throwing through water," said Borowski.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/04/tribe_closer_says_he_had_nothi.html

[Jeltz For the Hall]

Tray: So are you suggesting that the Phillies actually did their due dilligence on Borowski and were smart in not signing a guy that had an arm about to fall off? One out of...um, I lost count...ain't bad, right?

[Irishbornkiller]

Looks like still no JRoll Tonight:

J. Werth cf
C. Ruiz c
C. Utley 2b
R. Howard 1b
P. Burrell lf
G. Jenkins rf
P. Feliz 3b
E. Bruntlett ss
A. Eaton p

[CJ]

Phils sweep Astros. Write it down. I'm feeling pretty good about this series.

[ZT]

Ruiz batting second?? Cholly is getting really creative.

[Steve Jeltz]

I thought the catcher had to bat 8th. What is going on here?

[Dave X]

There is absolutely no reason, traditional or sabermetric, to have Ruiz batting 2nd.

[MG]

CJ - Yeah if the Phils can get the bats going this series a bit they should be fine. Of all the games this seriest though, I am most actually most interested in Eaton's start tonight (never would have thought I would have said that even 2 weeks ago). Want to see if he looks as fluid in his delivery and composed on the mound as he has his first 2 starts.

[MG]

Wonder if Clout was right when he got on "XFiles" on and said the Phils were up to their usual tricks regarding the severity of JRoll's injury. Minor sprains usually require 7-10 days. If JRoll isn't back by Friday for the Mets series, then the injury is more serious than the Phils have disclosed but have to wait until then.

[Tray]

At least he has the right guy batting leadoff. I guess I would just move everyone up one spot and slip Ruiz in at 7th, but what do I know.

[CJ]

I like Ruiz in the two hole. Better choice than Feliz or Bruntlett. Anything that leaves those two lower in the lineups is a good thing.

[J. Weitzel]

test

[BloodStripes]

Awesome comeback. What a win.

Smoked!!!