Report: Phillies 'on lookout' for second lefty reliever

As we search the Web for useful updates, the mouse lands on a piece from Randy Miller of Phillyburbs.com, who spoke with GM Pat Gillick about the possibility of acquiring additional pitching help. [Link]

“The Phillies are on the lookout for more pitching, but for a second southpaw reliever to complement J.C. Romero,” Miller writes in his piece on the sub-par pitching performances so far this spring. “So far, none of the other lefty relievers in camp — Fabio Castro, Vic Darensbourg and Shane Youman — has been consistent, and Mike Zagurski is still recovering from hamstring surgery. In addition, Gillick ruled out free agent Kyle Lohse, saying the club made him an offer, but he “decided to do something else.”

Beerleaguer: It’s going to be difficult to pry away quality pitching before the start of the season. They might be able to swing something for a roster casualty, a left-hander who’s out of options or someone who lost a spring-training battle, but it's hard to imagine finding a significant improvement over what’s already in place. They have nothing to trade.

So basically, they’re in the same pickle they were last season. Guys are hurt. They’re understaffed. They're inexperienced. No one has magically emerged, so now they’ll wait and see what shakes loose. It's starting to look like the front office will leave Charlie Manuel's bullpen with a short deck for the third year in a row, but I'll approach the situation with guarded optimism that outside help is coming. After all, there are non-roster invitees in other camps who could probably pitch the seventh inning for us.

Comments

[J. Weitzel]

Ray King would have looked good. Non-roster invitee of Washington, signed a minor league deal this winter. I would feel better about things if they had veteran southpaw in camp like King.

[Cheese]

Ray King intrigues me.

[J. Weitzel]

I don't know that they can get him. He'll probably make the Nationals' roster.

[J. Weitzel]

I don't know much about his contract, either. If there's an out clause, and doesn't make the 25-man, he may become available.

[Alby]

Short version: Magic beans fail to grow, farmer Gillbuckle asks fans to skip dinner.

[Morty]

There is something pathological about the Gillick going a 3rd straight year without a bullpen upgrade.

Wait, I meant monetary.

[matt]

Alan Embree?

[J. Weitzel]

King is basically a lock to make the Nats, according to Chris Needham, Capitol Punishment.

[Mike H.]

But wait! We have Wes Helms! He has value somewhere, right? Ha ha ha... I'm not falling for that a second time in two days.

At least Gillick didn't make the mistake that Toronto just made. They just signed Armando Benitez. Source: Toronto Star. Minor league deal.

[Mike H.]

Any thoughts on Yukinaga Maeda, who I believe is still out there? Might need to double check that. I know that he auditioned for about 10 teams.

[GM-Carson]

I would love Alan Embree on the Phils staff!!! Billy Beane always wants a ton in return though.

[Andy]

It's a shame someone like Ron Mahay wasn't available as a FA over the winter!

[Ben Keeler]

There were some picthers available, but the Phillies needed to go after another strikeout prone outfielder and a weak hitting 3B to clog the bases.

[bay_area_phan]

Ben: Worry not. I assure you that Pedro Feliz won't be clogging the bases.

[Mike H.]

Yep, it'll be tough for Feliz to clog the bases when his OBP is optimistically projected at .320 and realistically projected at .301.

[Willard Preacher]

Way to look for those positives Mike H!!

[Jack]

Clout- My only point on Kendrick is that people on here seem to be saying "Don't worry about Kendrick, he's proven he'll be fine" and are counting on him to be a solid #3 starter. I don't think there's even much of a chance he's a league-average pitcher; I would probably bet money on him being a below average starter, if I were the type to bet against my own team, which I'm not. My guess is an ERA around 5 and I wouldn't count out the possibility of an Eaton-like season from him. At the least, his chances of going downhill that way seem higher, at least to me, than his chances of improving and being a good 3rd starter for us.

My point is that people seem to be worrying about the bullpen and the 5th starter, and I consider Kendrick's performance something to seriously worry about as well. That's all.

[MG]

Understand difficulty in fixing up rotation this offseason given limited options but there is no excuse that the Phils are trawling the waiver wire before the season even starts for bullpen help yet again.

Funny thing is that the one role that Castro could be effective in is as a LOOGY (not a starter). Guess the Phils just don't think he has the command.

At least the Phils are honest about the lack of having a situational lefty instead of trying to praise the likes of a Matt Smith or stubbornly insisting they don't really need lefties relievers like last offseason.

Still don't think Cholly is a good tactical manager but it will be hard to fault him this season when his starters come out and he is stuck choosing among 2-3 relievers with ERA above 5.

[clout]

Jack: Who's saying he's a number 3 starter? At present he's a #4 at best, but forced to be a #3 on this team just as #5 Moyer is forced to be a #4 and #12 Eaton is forced to be a #5. On the other hand, there is zero evidence -- as in none -- to suggest Kendrick will have an Eaton season this year. If anyone is going to lose it this year, my bet would be Moyer because at his age he's on borrowed time.

[Jon]

Marte from the Bucs would be ideal. I am not sure what the Phils could offer though. Maybe Zagurski and Snelling. Maybe add a semi-decent prospect, I don't know. Gillick effed up again with regard to the pitching staff. Shocking, I know...

[clout]

MG: Back in November or even October I listed 20 free agent relievers who were avilable who I thought were worth looking at. How could it be possible that the FO didn't think the bullpen needed help then but all of a sudden now it does? This makes no sense.

[Jack]

Heading down to Clearwater for the games on Friday and Saturday. Does anyone know who is schedule to pitch those days or are they making it up as they go? By my estimate I should be seeing probably Kendrick on Friday and Myers on Saturday, does that sound right? I'm hoping I'll see Carrasco throw but that looks unlikely.

Anyone know of the good bars to hit at night?

[kdon]

"Who's saying he's a number 3 starter?"

Technically, he is the number three starter.

I assume those who wanted to sign a starter and keep Myers in the pen also believed Kendrick would make a good #3.

[clout]

kdon: Really? Those people were looking to sign a #4 or #5 starter? I must've missed that.

[Jack]

Clout: Didn't you advocate signing a legit #2 or #3 starter, putting Myers back into the bullpen, and thus having our rotation be:

Hamels
Acquisition
Kendrick
Moyer
Eaton/Garbage

Or am I missing something?

[clout]

I advocated signing Kuroda, among others. The fact is I've been saying all winter the team needs help in both the rotation and the bullpen. Kendrick isn't a legitimate #3, Moyer isn't a legitimate #4 and Eaton isn't a legitimate #5 at this point. That's the problem. Outside of Hamels & Myers, they're understaffed.

[MG]

clout - "This makes no sense."

Sure it does. The Phils aleady had 99% of season ticket sales they are going to have and individual ticket sales have been really brisk too.

[Andy]

It will most amazingly ironic if the second lefty in the pen ends up being the 37 yr old wunderkind who was last seen in the NL giving up the 13th inning, 100th career HR of David Bell.

[clout]

I'd be willing to take this rotation and bullpen, however, assuming everyone was healthy:
Hamels
Kuroda
Benson
Kendrick
Moyer

with Lidge as setup and Myers as closer. Gordon/Romero in the 8th, Madson in the 7th and C.Durbin et al for the final 2 garbage spots.

[Andy]

Please put "wunderkind" in quotes, however, since he is only "competing" for that job.

[clout]

Obviously that should read Gordon/Romero in the 7th, Madson in the 6th and C.Durbin et al as mop up.

[AWH]

Boy, I usually don't get crude, but the topic of this thread just pisses me off.

Jason, you're right, Ray King WAS available, and very inexpensive. I was an advocate of signing him, and said so on this board.

I'm also on record as saying he stands a chance to have a better year than Romero.

Lastly, the other thing that bothers me is that King is on a team in the division.

He owns Howard and Utley.

Signing him would have taken that option away from Acta in tight ballgames.

(And instead of King we get one of the Dos Durbins and ..................................................................................................................................................

Vic Darensbourg!

[AWH]

clout - "This makes no sense."

Sure it does. The Phils aleady had 99% of season ticket sales they are going to have and individual ticket sales have been really brisk too.

MG, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Giles and Montgomery don't want people to know what the real gameplan is.

[Mark]

Lohse "decided to do something else?"

Is he signed?

Both sides should suck up some pride and get a deal worked out. It may be the best option.

[Mr. Mack]

I have taken offense to the fact that some of you guys are complaining about my complaining! Just as the Phils are in Spring Training, so am I. I am just warming up for the regular season, when this team comes North and gets off to another woeful April. Wait until the 4-12 start. When that happens, I will really get fired up (as will the rest of you). I will just be in better form this season due to me practicing my moaning regimen.

The thing that upsets me is that all of this was avoidable with a little better planning. For those of you who say it is still early and this bitching of ours is as meaningless as the games currently being played in Florida, I would normally agree. Except that this all has the makings of another Ground Hog's Day scene, just like it was from the movie. In Spring Training of 06 and 07, we were the exact same situation, with the pitching staff battling injuries and depth issues.
All we are missing is Sonny and Cher singing 'I Got You Babe'. Maybe they can play that tune in the seventh inning stretch at CBP this year. My fear is that like Sonny Bono, the Phils go 'SMACK' into a tree trunk and don't recover this year.

[MG]

I am going to wait and see on the pen at this point. If Lidge is fine and Gordon can contribute they are ok.

Problem is that you won't know until Lidge takes the mound in a game situation again and I have some serious doubts about Gordon.

[Tim]

Mr. Mack - that's a pretty bold statement that "all of this was avoidable with a little better planning." Are you saying that there was that much available this year in the FA market or via trades, that with the proper planning by the FO, people wouldn't be complaining now? I highly doubt it. Instead of people saying they don't have faith in the Durbins, etc., they would be saying they don't have faith in Ray King and Kyle Lohse.

[Mike H.]

Hey, thanks, Willard. No problem on those positives. When I realistically find a couple more for Feliz, I'll let you know. In the meantime, look for an article called "The Human Out Machine."

[Mike H.]

Actually, it's called "the Prodigious Out Making Machine"

[Mr. Mack]

Tim - You are flat out wrong. Last year, most BL'ers agreed going into the FA market that Lohse coming back would have been fine with them. What, you would rather have Eaton-crap pitching as our #5? I would've bet the house that he was going to be a crap again, instead or hoping that he might come out of last season's funk, as the FO kept talking about, or rather trying to talk all of us doubters into believing.

I understand that Lohse declined the offer that was on the table, but now that they need him, the self imposed salary cap is blocking the way for him to come back, even on a short term deal. Meaning that Gillick & Co spent all of their Phillie-dollars on crap and want us, as the consumers, to pay for their mistakes, without trying to rectify their screw up by bringing in a player that might help. Furthermore, they are unwilling to admit they screwed up, which infuriates me as well as the rest of the All Bitch Team here at BeerLeaguer, because that would mean unhappy fans, and God-forbid we couldn't have that.

So why is that such a bold statement? You fail to realize Tim, that even a couple of moves that made some sense, with even the slightest chance of appearing as pre-planning entering the picture, would've sat a wee bit better with me. Instead we shipped out our CF (and got nothing in return) and our 4'th outfielder who posessed blazing speed, good defense and offensive promise, for a possible closer who is currently un-healthy (who came to us that way), which should come as no shock. If that is bold, then so be it.

[bay_area_phan]

Mr. Mack: Aside from the tasteless metaphor at the end, I endorse every word of your otherwise excellent post. You'll get no complaints from me about your complaining.

[bay_area_phan]

Mr. Mack: Aside from the tasteless metaphor at the end, I endorse every word of your otherwise excellent post. You'll get no complaints from me about your complaining.

[clout]

Tim: I'd like to think that Beerleaguers know the difference in quality between Lohse and King on the one hand and Dos Durbins on the other.

[Tim]

I'm just saying that there was no magical solution that would have made this complaining avoidable. If Lohse was in camp and not pitching well, he would just be added to the list of things we complain about. And Kyle Lohse - is not good! Why do you think he is still looking for a job? He is a career blow .500 pitcher. So instead of just complaining about Eaton, we would complain about having two guys that suck.

And forgive me if I don't get upset that Rowand signed a ridiculous contract on the worst team in the NL (he is way overpaid), and we traded Michael Bourne.

I am not an apologist for this FO, at all - and I hate to even sound like one. However, its not like there was a goldmine of pitching available that they refused to go after. We are talking about C and D list pitchers, who may or may not have helped this team. When I hear names like Ray King and Kyle Lohse, it doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies about what could have been. You have the right to bitch, but saying the bitching was avoidable just isn't true, because after all, you just referred to yourself as the All Bitch Team.

[bay_area_phan]

Tim: I'll stipulate that, even if we had signed Lohse & King, I would probably be bitching about something else. For that matter, if the Phillies had traded LaForest for Johann Santana, I'd probably still be bitching about the lack of bullpen help. There's always something worth complaining about and I tend to be pessimistic by nature.

However, just because Phillies fans are compulsive complainers does not mean that any particular complaint is necessarily wrong. In fact, I would argue that the very reason we complain so much is because our front office has such a spectacular, and almost unbroken, history of screwing up.

[Tim]

BAP - I agree. My point was really that this complaining wasn't avoidable - as Mr. Mack had suggested, it just would have been about something or someone else, or likely about the very players we now say they should have gotten.

I was going to make the same comment about Santana that you did, we just would complain about the bullpen.

I'm not even sure if a Championship in this city would quiet the complaints in the season that follows.

[Morty]

Well, to echo MG and give an optimistic slant; if Benson comes back as the team plans, if Gordon and Lidge remain healthy and effective, we might have the makings of a serviceable staff to complement the offense.

Three big "if's."

[MG]

The thing is that is frustrating about this is cases where the Phils' spend money stupidly (C. Durbin signing for 900k instead of signing Matt Wise for $1.2M) or blow it (losing the Howard arbitration because they tried to lowbal) and end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Then the Phils act shocked when the marginal holdovers and offseason pitching acquisitisons don't pan out in the spring. Maybe you get lucky with one but not to fill at least 2-3 spots in the pen.

[MG]

One more point of optimitism:

- Given the Mets' injury woes and the question marks the Braves have had this spring so far, I am betting that no team gets out to a really strong start in April in the NL East.

I would be happy with a .500 month from the Phils at this point if Lidge can come back and Benson is ready to pitch sometime in early May. Phils just can't bury themselves like last year and be back 7-8 games of the Mets by Memorial Day again.

[Mike H.]

Let's take a crack at how those ifs might play out.

Benson has made his bread and butter by throwing two and four seam fastballs, a slider, and a curve. If he's throwing the curve with command, he's back. If he's a three pitch pitcher, he'll be serviceable in the fifth spot. If he's just relying on tailing fastballs and pinpoint control, that's a bad Jon Lieber. Cue the donuts. The eating kind.

Gordon is all about his curveball. This is not newsworthy. I'm afraid the curve turns his shoulder to goo when he has to throw it regularly. This is when I think Romero fits in better. I don't trust the sembalnce of his shoulder.

Lidge's knee has to give him the confidence he desperately needs and the ability to withstand the hard slider. We'll know before the boos start if he's bad because he will fly open and become mechanically unsound. Then he'll get shelled. Then everyone will boo. What do you think is more ego-shattering - the long home run that someone in the caliber of Pujols will hit off of him this year, or the sustained anger from the Phans?