Game chat: Phillies go green today against Cleveland

The home team sports the colors of St. Patrick’s Day when they host to the Indians at 1:05 in Clearwater. Chad Durbin makes his first official Grapefruit League start.

Today's rant: Instead of green dye, Charlie Manuel is lacing his beer with Goodys Headache Powder. His club is looking a little rough around the edges. His core isn’t taking it seriously. The rest are transposable, interchangeable, pain in the ass parts. He’s trying to sledgehammer square pegs into round holes. He’s trying to make Travis Blackley, who went unprotected by the Giants, into a reliever, even though he’s never done it. The team is trying to figure out what the hell to do with Wes Helms, and also Chris Snelling. Snelling is young and may be useful, but he’s out of options and is blocked by someone who’s 12 years older. Manuel’s bosses are reportedly on the phone, working last minute deals, because late March is traditionally the best time for that. The latest rumor finds Colorado left-hander Brian Fuentes on their radar, but they are competing with clubs who may have more to offer. Fuentes would be a upgrade over last spring's bargain acquisitions, currently serving as placeholders until the Phillies select their latest leisure suit from baseball's clearance rack.

Today's topic: Trade center fielder Shane Victorino to a money-strapped club for better pitching.

Comments

[Tony D]

When did Victorino become overrated and troublesome?

[GM-Carson]

I do not feel Victorino is over-rated or troublesome. I love him. His defense and speed are huge assests and we need him in our outfield!

[J. Weitzel]

He's a lot to handle ... Maybe it's not the best word.

[J. Weitzel]

Closed door meetings? He sounds like a handful. You hear things, too. And he's overrated. There's no question.

[Hitman]

The combination of Victorino's speed and throwing arm makes him among the best fielding CFs in baseball. As a hitter, he is undisciplined and has not learned to lay off bad pitches and take more walks. He is an extraordinary base stealer, so he needs to work on his OBP. To describe him as overrated and troublesome is totally inaccurate.

[from the district]

as always, the term overrated depends on whose rating him.

If the contention is that we could receive more value for him than he is worth, I could buy that. There's a lot of teams out there looking for a guy who can steal bases to lead off for them.

But then we don't have a centerfielder.

[Bonehead]

Problem is....he's only overrated by the Phils. I believe that the rest of MLB has him rated just about right. In other words, very little trade value.

[J. Weitzel]

If the Phillies are presented with an opportunity to greatly improve their pitching, Taguchi, Snelling, Werth would take turns in center field next season.

[GM-Carson]

An outfield of Burrell, Jenkins, Taguchi, Snelling, and Werth...what are we the Baltimore Orioles? C'mon now!

[GM-Carson]

Weitzel,

As you know, I normally agree with you on most accounts, but we absolutely NEED Vic. Swapping out a strength to cover a weakness, while making that stength then in turn become a weakness is unwise in my opinion.

[Bonehead]

GM...And Vic changes your equation?

[J. Weitzel]

What about the Pirates as a trade partner? Marte and one of their CFs in a package deal?

[Terry W]

Trading Victorino would be idiotic. It would have made more sense to trade Rowand at last years trade deadline or sign & trade him this year to get the pitching we needed. Now Rowand is gone and soon after replaced by Jenkins but still no pitching rotation acquisition. The Phils should have sucked it up and re-signed Lohse when his price tag went down.

[Mike H.]

What other teams need a center fielder? Wasn't the center fielder market open this winter with Torii Hunter, Rowand, Andruw Jones, etc.? I'm trying to look at this from an outside-in perspective and can't think of any other team that would want him for pitching.

The Phils FO must be really high on Werth if the situation is at this point.

[Terry W]

B. Myers is the Phillies significant upgrade to our rotation but only if we'd kept Lohse and dumped that other bum whose name escapes me at the moment

[Bonehead]

I agree w/Mike. I am not at all against trading Vic. And I'm okay w/ Werth, Taguchi, Snelling. Just don't think Phils have anything to put into a packjage.

[Bonehead]

J....Regarding Snelling, it looks like you're hinting at keeping Snelling over Coste.

[Tray]

I don't think a guy becomes troublesome because of one ten-minute meeting, but depending on what we could get for him you'd have to consider it.

[Andy]

Does anyone really know what that ten minute meeting was about? It could just be that someone in the ownership group or front office has a daughter who's been "doin' the hula."

[J. Weitzel]

He's a lot to handle, not troublesome. Poor turn of phrase. Forget I wrote it. Forget about it.

As far as center field being weak this winter, 1/3 of clubs aren't players in the free agent market because they can't afford it. With Vic, that wouldn't be an issue.

When they lost Vic to the calf injury last season, I don't recall the offense going down the tubes.

There'a actually a free agent CF still unsigned who can be as productive as Vic next season ...

[Dan]

E3- Howard flat-out missed a catch on a pick-off attempt from Durbin. Ugly.

[Tony]

anyone know if this one is televised?

[Dan]

It is- Comcast SportsNet

[MG]

Gillick is like the guy who is failing a course and now trying to cram before the final in order to pass.

What I don't understand is if the Phils are so intent on not taking any substantial salary on how are they going to add a player like Fuentes?

If anything, they are likely are going to tinker like they have the previous 2 seasons and make a minor deal or two before the start of the season. No chance a guy like Fuentes ends up here.

[GM-Carson]

Howard pulled a few of those bone-headed mistakes last season on pick-off throws too. I love his offense, but I hate his defense, he literally looks lost out there sometimes. He can't start the double play either, which irks me.

Weitzel, you're entitled to your opinion on Vic, just expect to be questioned about. Lord knows I voice me opinion enough and it doesn't always meld well with others'.

[CJ]

I've heard a few Phillies announcers discuss how Howard's defense has improved since last season.

I don't think we'll ever have a gold glover there, but it's nice to hear he's working on it.

[GM-Carson]

CJ- they said the same bullshit lie last season too.

[MG]

If the Phils could trade Victorino for Fuentes, I would do it in a heartbeat. This trade rumor tells me that the Phils have almost no faith in their bullpen going into the season.

Fuentes would not only solidify the setup role but it would help the bullpen by moving Romero back to a primary situational reliever and Madson as a 6th/7th inning guy.

Sign Lofton then and call it a day. If not, you could always swing another minor deal with the Pirates to get one of their no-hit CF like Duffy.

[GM-Carson]

I love at having Victorino for the next 4 seasons as a very good thing. Trading him for Fuentes who will be gone following this season doesn't make sense to me. Not only that, why would the Rockies want Vic? They have Holliday, Hawpe, Taverez, and Spillbourghs already, while Cory Sullivan to spare.

[MG]

I would love to see Fuentes here (even though there is no shot it happens). He annihilates lefties, has put up very solid numbers the past 3 seasons, and more importantly he has not been abused with an excessive workload the past 2-3 years.

[Goldenmonkey]

Howard has trouble starting the DP, eh?

[CJ]

And on cue... Ryno turns a tough broken bat double play.

[Dan]

What do ya know, Carson? Howard just turned one.

[Andy]

If the Rox make a deal using Fuentes, surely they'll be looking for a second baseman and not an OF.

[J. Weitzel]

Maybe we could trade them Casey Smith!

[Andy]

Weitzel - I like that deal.

Seriously, though; if we're gonna trade Vic, look at the Pods. They have Edmonds starting in Center and a whole buncha relief pitchers who are decent.

[MG]

I get so tired of the "Howard is the worst defensive player" ever argument. First, he is definitely below average but he is not the worst 1B in the league. He also did have not a worse defensive season last year than in '06.

Fans just like to harp on things at times without being truly objective.

[CJ]

Chooch comes through with two outs. He's had a really nice spring.

[Crazy Jon]

If they were going to trade Vic, then they should not have unloaded Bourn.
Simple as that.

[MG]

Now if you want to harp on Burrell's defense in LF you will get no argument for me. His defensive stats have slipped across the board and almost every defense stat shows Burrell was arguably the worst LF in the NL last year.

[Andy]

In re: Vic to the Pods....Joe Thatcher, for instance. (The Pods would do that as fast as the Rox would go for Casey Smith, though.)

[CJ]

Andy Marte reminds me of something I wanted to post...

He's TERRIBLE with a glove apparently... and Cleveland is worried about making him their regular third baseman because of that. Sound familiar?

[GM-Carson]

I never once said "Howard is the worst defensive player". I did see his defense is bad though, and he often appears lost and for the most part has a difficult time starting the double play. I prefaced my statement by saying I love his offense, and overally I love having him on our team, but I'm not to sit back and kiss his ass and act like he's perfect because an improved campaign on defense would be greatly welcomed by me.

[CJ]

Wow... after those two plays, maybe they'll be interested in Wes Helms as a defensive replacement at third.

[Andy]

Crazy Jon - you are, of course, completely right. "Shoulds" don't always work with Gillick, however. (Like "We should get relief pitching during the off-season." "Any third baseman we pay for should be able to hit." "We should get some value when we trade top-line OFs to the Yankees." And so on.)

[Alby]

Sorry, Jason, when I read "you hear things," I have to wonder what sort of things you've heard. You can't back away now that you brought it up... can you?

[Andy]

Gotta say, with the "everyday players" line-up that Chollie posted today, I find Feliz batting sixth ahead of Werth to be especialy troubling. It appears, now, that Manuel is seriously considering that spot for Senor Out.

[Malcolm]

Finally ... offense!!!

[J. Weitzel]

Alby: Well, how about every time Wheels says Victorino is a handful during broadcasts. Once a week at least.

[CJ]

Heads up baserunning by Ruiz there. Nice to see the Phils getting around the bases today.