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Monday, January 28, 2008


If you're a free agent at this point in time in the offseason, you better hope there are still offers out there for you and hop on the best one available. Aka- we may just keep Lohse afterall.

It's all Santana, all the time. Meanwhile, has anyone read or heard anything about Joe Nathan lately?

- Kyle Lohse is still available? What are the odds that we will see him back in Phillies pinstripes this spring If so, does he make this stff? I would have to think the answer is "yes".

- I guess our bullpen is the equivelant to a Used Car Lot. So that makes Phillies management, what, Used Car Salesman?

I've heard more about Tony Nathan than I've heard about Joe Nathan.

there were some interesting quotes from Nathan via MLBTR on Saturday:

"I think we definitely gave them a really good deal this last time around. I felt I left quite a bit of money on the table, to be honest. This time around, we expect it to be different."

phillies signed feliz according to espn to a two year deal


thats what i was thinking to

and to revive the historical baseball thread from the last post:

regarding the Pete Alexander trade, the appeal for the Phillies wasn't Pickles Dillhoefer (I don't think even the most-likely-incompetent Phillies scouting department thought he was much of a haul [per Wikipedia, the Phillies of that time actually employed only one scout. one!]). much like Bobby Abreu some 90 years later, Alexander was traded to avoid paying his salary and to get $55,000 in cash from the Cubs. not to justify the decision, which was by any measurement indefensible, but it's worth remembering that a lot of teams at that time barely kept their heads above water financially. $55,000 was a big deal.

another major factor in the trade was the impending First World War; then-owner William Baker was concerned that Alexander would be drafted. he was, and he pitched in only three games in 1918. according to some accounts his service time aggravated his drinking and epilepsy and damaged his hearing and his throwing arm. although he came back in 1919 and posted a 1.72 ERA and 0.93 WHIP over 235 innings, and won a triple crown in 1920, so it's not like it was that smart of a gamble.

any dollars on the feliz deal?

huh. I was having a pretty good day up to now. thanks, Phillies.

Yes! More dead weight at third!

Headline opportunity: Puh-LEEZ!

I really hate that it's a 2-year deal. much as I dislike Feliz, I didn't think a relatively cheap/1-year plus option contract would be fatally stupid. but handing out two years (unless they're really cheap, like <$3M cheap) to an over 30 player who was never that good to begin with and has been trending down over his last few seasons is just stupid.

I did some calculating and this is where I figure the Phils budget sits at:

25-man roster

C Coste ($400k)
C Ruiz ($400k)
1B Howard ($7M or $10M)
2B Utley ($7.5M)
3B Helms ($2.15M)
3B Dobbs ($400k)
SS Rollins ($7M)
INF Bruntlett ($585k)
OF Burrell ($14M)
OF Victorino ($800k) guess
OF Werth ($1.7M)
OF Jenkins ($6.5M)
OF Taguchi ($1.05M)
SP Hamels ($800k) guess
SP Myers ($8.5M)
SP Moyer ($5.5M)
SP Kendrick ($400k) guess
SP Eaton ($7.635M)
RP Condrey ($400k)
RP C. Durbin ($900k)
RP xxx ($400k)
RP Romero ($4M)
RP Madson ($1.4M)
RP Gordon ($5.5M)
RP Lidge ($6.35M)

So basically the Phils have committed between $91-$92M dollars if Howard loses his arbitration case and $94-$95M dollars if Howard wins.

If you take into account guys who are signed on the 40-man roster (e.g., Snelling, etc), I would probably add another $4-$5 M and that is figure is probably a bit high.

So basically the Phils have committed about $95-97M to player salaries if Howard loses his arbitration case and $98-$99M if he wins. Again those figures are probably a bit aggressive but the Phils have already committed about $94-95M to player salaries this year.

It is below the $105M dollar figure that was touted by Montgomery (big shock) but he probably meant that was entire budget for player salaries in 2008. It would be a modest bump from the $101.1M spending on player salaries the Phils reported to MLB in 2007, which ranked 8th in MLB last year (3.8% increase).

Is it fair to call the Phils cheap? I guess your answer would be it depends. On one hand, they do spending nearly as much as any team in the NL. The Mets (maybe Dodgers/Cubs) are the only NL team that are likely to spend considerably more than the Phils this season on player salaries.

On the other hand, the Phils have one of the highest average ticket prices in MLB and a majority of tickets this increased over 10%. So basically, Monty and the boys are milking the playoff appearance and the spending on player salaries did not keep up the increase in ticket prices.

The Phils it seems have to failed to capitalize on playing in one of the largest media markets in the nation and play in the largest media market that does not share competition with another MLB team. I would have to see some figures on advertising revenue though to confirm this and I wouldn't lump this into being "cheap." Just not maximizing revenue potential.

Unfortunately, I think we all saw this one coming. I would imagine this means we are going to move Helms for some bullpen fodder. He'll probably bounce back for the Yanks or Marlins in a part-time role, while Feliz struggles with an OBP less than .280 for us.

The ONLY silver lining is 3B defense innings 1-6 has dramatically been improved.

Feliz's sponsor on baseball-reference:
"The Secret Weapon" has won back-to-back Dave Kingman Awards. He is truly a prodigious out-making machine.

Did we really just sign Feliz to a two-year deal? Is there anyway, we can get out of this?

Just really disappointed, seems like a waste of space. I hope I'll be proved wrong, but I'm not hoping very hard.

c'mon JMARR, there's also those 25 - 30 games he'll win with his defense! The Phils should win 110 games now. (Right? Or is my math off?)

I can't really get too worked up over this deal either way. Like the rest of you, I'm curious to see the dollar amount of course. But as weak as he may be, his defense alone improves the position overall from the Helms/Dobbs platoon. I also was shocked to see that Feliz has hit 20 HRs the last few seasons.

Just read on ESPN that the Phils signed Feliz for 2 years. There goes the season!

according to MLBTR Phils sign Pedro Feliz to 2 year deal.....we knew this was coming

So not only do we have to deal with him for two years but we also gave up a sandwich pick for this clown?

I was having a really good day until 3 minutes ago.

...while cutting down on k's

bye bye Wes. You could have been the worst hitter I have ever seen in a Phillies uni. I had more faith in Steve Jeltz.

If Helms brings back Farnsworth, I'll take the Feliz in / Helms out.

This is especially a waste of money if Lohse could be had for a relatively economical deal. I mean 3B was a black hole before this deal and now, it is still a black hole.

Whereas on the other hand, it seems that SP can definitely be upgraded do to all of our question marks and injury concerns. I feel like this deal shows us that getting Lohse is already out of the question and was never a legitimate option in the eyes of the front office to begin with.

Based on the market I think we did ok. His HR/Plate appearance ration is .034, not that awful. That number should rise in the Bank. Thnink of it this way, we get the Same OBP that we would've gotten from Helms, but way more HR's (Wed had a .016 HR/PA ratio) and significantly better defense. I'll take that.

Don't hate the deal, but I don't love it either. Maybe a change of venue and Cholly and Milt working on cutting down his K's will lead to a nice suprise.

Or, more than likely, we'll boo him out of Philadelphia.

avgs. 20 HR and 75-80 BRI for a poor hitting club in a tough HR park...not too bad for a guy that will in the bottom third of the order, not too mention that its another righty bat. Just saying-

The Philadelphia Phillies have agreed to a two-year deal with free agent third baseman Pedro Feliz, pending a physical.

Feliz batted .253 with 20 home runs and 72 RBIs last season with the San Francisco Giants.

Jayson Stark is a senior writer for

WTF? Feliz for 2 yrs guaranteed? Sabean must be laughing.

For the second year in a row, Gillick makes an utterly imbecilic FA signing that flies in the face of what this team needs (more pitching).

I said a few weeks ago and I will say it again, Gillick is now the WORST GM IN PHILLY right now.

But of course SirAlden will defend Gillick's brilliance.

what is the over/under on games it will take for Phans to boo Feliz?

And this years winner of the annual waste of money award goes to Pedro Feliz, following in the footsteps of Rod Barajas and Abraham Nunez. Seems like the Giants let forced him to do the thing he is most incapable of, they let him walk. Seriously though, there was absolutely zero competition for Feliz, so why a two year deal. I'm going to go puke in the corner...

MG, look at the numbers and I think you will see this is a good upgrade over Helms.

I don't think that this is a terrible move. Feliz will be productive at the bottom of our lineup. If we can flip Helms for a bullpen piece, than we win in the deal.

Reed: Does spring training count?

Andy LOL .... I guess we really do have to see if there is some kind of deal in place for Helms .... if not --- this really doesn't do much for us except potentially help the bench a bit with Dobbs being the first Lefty to PH now, and we don't burn 3 players at 3B every game.

AVG .253 | HR 20 | RBI 72 | OBP .290 | SLG .418

2007 Stats

If (and you don't know how much I'm hoping this is not the case) the Phils have (truly gone completely insane and) signed Feliz, the following link is essential reading. It's from a SF Giants blogger and it dissects the value of Mr. F.

(Please say it ain't so!)

Phillies do not give up a pick for Feliz. that, such as it is, is one positive.

"So not only do we have to deal with him for two years but we also gave up a sandwich pick for this clown?"

I believe that while the Giants get a pick, the Phillies don't actually lose one.

I just had a cubicle-shaking groan here at the office. My colleagues thought I was going to throw up.

He might be good for one victory in 2008. I'll calculate a VORP of 2.0 for him for the year.

Off to go brush my teeth...

On second though, I'm not expecting much out of any teams #7 or #8 hitter, so signing Feliez doesn't bother me nearly as much as it did, oh, about 10 minutes ago. I'll take 20hr/70rbi out of my 7 or 8 hole hitter any season. But hey, what do I know?

Please note pops13's numbers, folks. Especially the OBP and SLG. Despite those 20 HRs, Feliz is an abominable hitter.

Do people read the message board before posting "Phils sign Pedro Feliz" etc...?

Now let's trade Helms to the Marlins for a fresh tuna steak or two.

That 2.0 figure? That's the over/under on regular season games before he gets booed. Oh, I can just see it now... 1st and 3rd, tie game, 2 out, Chipper Jones up, hits a check swing roller that just eats Feliz alive...

Where is this notion that a veteran like Feliz who is entering his mid-30s is suddenly going to decrease his K rate? Or that his trend in decreasing .SLG or ISOp is going to stop?

The real kicker is the Phils had a give up a sandwich compensation pick for this bum and give him 2-yrs guaranteed.

If Gillick can get a bullpen arm for Helms in return, this is something salvageable but I imagine the Phils will trade Helms to any team that will just take his salary. The Phils will be happy for even a bag of baseballs in return.

Listen: I'm serious. If you really think that Feliz has value, go to his B-Ref page and follow the link of the sponsor.

Here's the real silver lining. Since it's a two year deal, we get to have all these discussions all over again next off season. I am truly looking forward to hearing from all the pro-Feliz people at that point.

I'm going to find a long rope, take a Boy Scouting lesson in knots, and then jumping from my support beam in the middle of my house.

1 year would be bad enough, but 2- Patty G is an f'n wanker!

Think we can trade Gillick and Carrasco to Houston for Wade?

GM Carson - just remember, Gillick is gone after this year --- if it took 2 yrs. to get his man, he was willing to give it to Feliz.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

At least the Phils didn't give up a pick. A silver lining if there is one. That and Manuel won't use his entire bench now by the 7th inning.

I am just going to call Feliz "HOM" for "Human Out Machine"

Don't forget the other positive of Wheels over-pronouncing his name for two whole seasons. Welcome to Philly, Mr. Fay-leese.

My first reaction was that the Phils won't give up a pick for a type B free agent but according to MLB trade rumors they DO lose a first round pick that is top 15 protected. Has the rule changed?

A. The Phils DID NOT give up a pick.
B. If Feliz just stays the same player as he has been in his career, it is still an upgrade over today.

Or am I just slow?

Well Jack, kdon and a few others got the man they wanted. The Phils will have to give Helms away and eat contract now. It will be interesting to see how Helms does this season vis a vis Feliz.

no shot at all with lohse now. no pat gillick=ruben amaro. not a good situation. they just do not get it.

That Dude: Feliz career OPS vs. RHP is .713. Please explain how that is an upgrade. Thanking you in advance.

Feliz is terrible offensively, but he has great defensive value, and it is not as if Dobbs/Helms put up great offensive numbers last year. Once again, I'll post these numbers:

Dobbs/Helms (604 ABs): 11 Batting Runs above Average

Feliz (588 ABs): 5 Batting Runs above Average

Dobb/Helms have a slight offensive edge of 6 runs here (consider that Rollins, Utley and Howard were all worth more than 50 Batting Runs above Average).

Dobbs/Helms (136 games at 3rd): -13 Fielding Runs above Average

Feliz (143 games at 3rd): 19 Fielding Runs above Average

Feliz has a decided edge defensively of 32 runs. Make of these numbers what you will, they are only one metric in a sea of them, but before you make a judgement about Feliz consider that there is at least a debate to be had that he was a better player last year than the Dobbs/Helms platoon.

As far as I'm concerned the sum of Feliz/Dobbs/Bruntlet is greater than Dobbs/Helms/Nunez.

I'm not sure why the agita on this one.

I am OK with Feliz... a Big improvement in defense - and has some pop. I would have preferred Crede - but oh well. Also - he will be batting 7th or 8th - and he is sure to put up much better offensive numbers than Helms. And like people said - hopefully we can send Helms somewhere in return for a little bullpen help.

I'm actually not disappointed here. Feliz has excellent (if not the best) defense at 3rd and horrible offense against lefties. And righties. And those deceiving t-ball stands.

Regardless, he IS an improvement over the former platoon. Plus, this frees up Dobbs a bit--which I'm all for. That flexibility is important.

Finally, now we can move Helms!!! For anyone. Someone. Please. A better LOOGY would be ideal, however, I would take anyone for him really.

Side note--does anyone think Wesley could be Uncle Cholly's actual nephew? Or, more likely, Cholly and Dubee's illegitemate love child? The resemblance is uncanny.

Watched Feliz the past two years in SF. He is an incredibly poor offensive player. Think Nunez with less ability to take a walk and with some power.

Besides hitting the occasional HR (which usually seemed to be a mistake offspeed pitch that hangs out over the outside part over the zone or is a mediocre fastball that is about belt-high over the plate), Feliz just doesn't bring much.

Tries to pull everything and looks ridiculous at times. The book on getting him out is real easy - throw inside to Feliz and get him to flail at sinkers and sliders that break away from the plate. The only thing you don't want to do is hang him a mid-to-upper 80s fastball about belt high or leave a slider hanging out over the zone.

I guess the Feliz/Dobbs/Bruntlett combo isn't any worse than Helms/Dobbs/Nunez combo last year. If anything, it is probably a significant defensive upgrade. The issue is that this team needs another starter and I think resigning Lohse or another 2 veteran arms for the bullpens would have better served this team.

TOO bad we got Santana maybe you'll get the wild card or maybe not suckers

Hi, for our german members I´d like to introduce the new>anime community>
It´s very new and has only a few users, threads and posts so please help to get it active. English users can post also in the english>forum there.


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