Abridged MetsBlog: Santana deal hinges on prospect

Hot stove mania has cooled in this neck of the woods, but our rival blog is abuzz with rumors that the Mets are closing in on Johan Santana. [Link]

According to Joe Christensen of the Minnesota Star Tribune, the Twins have told the Mets they can have the left-hander if they add OF Fernando Martinez to their current offer of OF Carlos Gomez and RHPs Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber. The Yankees and Red Sox both remain in the sweepstakes, but “Ultimately, the Mets might be the best fit,” writes Christensen.

MetsBlog proprietor Matthew Cerrone remains guarded about giving up the farm, but says he might kick in the extra prospect to meet Minnesota’s asking price. According to the Star-Tribune piece, Santana is seeking a five-or-six-year contract worth $20 million a season.

Writes Cerrone: “If the Mets can acquire Johan Santana, but also keep Mike Pelfrey and Aaron Heilman, as well as Brant Rustich and Eddie Kunz, as the previous posts suggest, I’ll be happy.” Cerrone goes on to say that past targets – such as Roy Oswalt, Jake Peavy and Carlos Zambrano, re-signed with their clubs and never hit the open market. Waiting on free agents hasn't been a worthwhile strategy.

“It is super important for this team to have a young, dominant ace for at least the next few seasons, and for the debut of Citi Field,” Cerrone writes. “And, as best I can tell, the only way it is going to happen for certain is if the Mets acquire Santana right now. Otherwise, I fear we will go through this same desperate charade next off-season, and the one after that, and the one after that ...”

A MetsBlog poll shows 70 percent of readers would be willing to send the five prospects to Minnesota for Santana. 

Beerleaguer: There’s no way to sugarcoat the strong possibility that Santana, the top prize, will be a Met next season, and possibly the next six. He would swing the balance of division power back over to the Mets. Head-to-head, it would be a nightmare. Maybe I'll take up gardening this summer. Or woodworking. Have a nice day. It’s been real.

Comments

[B-Mac]

The idea of having Santana on the mets is really scary. While if they get him, i won't just hand the Mets the division, but the phils will be facing a tough climb to hold onto the divisional title

[Mike]

I was under the impression that Martinez would be a substitute for Gomez, not an addition to. That's a king's ransom for the Mets it seems, but maybe the Phils will make a slightly-less little splash this offseason in response to the Mutties landing Santana.

[Fat Lobster]

Dear Lord deliver us from evil!

[Crazy Jon]

The Mets usually guess wrong on these types of deals (see the Kazmir for Victor Zambrano trade).
Would be funny if Santana folded under the NY pressure and if these prospects turn out to be decent additions to the Twins lineup.

[lekh tizdayen]

I also feel that if the mets get santana it almost forces the phillies to make an "impact" move. While that impact move should be adding a #3 starter or a respectable 3B its more likely to be another chad durbin-esque signing, though not necessarily a pitcher.

[GM-Carson]

I'm going to cry. Tough guys don't cry...well, Santana is awesome and he'll make the Phils his bitch!

[JB]

It is a great point about the aces resigning with their current clubs recently.

For the METS it would probably leave their farm system in similar shape as the Phillies plus adding Santana.

Time to shoot up Chad Durbin with some B-12 and Lidocaine.

[Jimbo]

I thought Hank Steinbrenner said that if Santana was dealt he would have the last word in it. Let's hope that is still true. I really don't want to see Carrasco traded because we feel like we have to make a move to counter the mets.

[J. Weitzel]

Joe Crede hasn't had much success against him, but if the Mets acquire Santana, I think they might be tempted to improve the right side of their lineup/third base with a move like that. Crede's at least familiar with him. Can't hurt in that regard, but it's not going to scare the Mets, nor should it. They have no chance at adding a top-flight pitcher and appear to have no interest in Lohse or the other FAs. So if the Phils make a countermove, it would be something like Crede.

[jim]

remeber gentlemen, "we make big splashes in small puddles." great to hear from your teams g.m.

[Jimbo]

Joe Crede sounds good, but after last years playoff run it shows that pitching outweighs hitting. Though Crede will help me sleep a little better at night. With the starters that are out on the market now who is worth taking a shot at? Jason Jennings if healthy since he seems to be more of a ground ball pitcher.

[Jimbo]

And don't worry GM-Carson Santana will give it to us smooth. After all he's a gentlemen. I just hope that Pedro doesn't last all year and somehow Santana will pull a Freddy Garcia with the Mets.

[J. Weitzel]

I would take Crede over Dobbs and Helms, but there's a strong chance he will be David Bell.

[SirAlden]

2008 New York Mets Prospects
By John Sickels

1# Fernando Martinez, OF, Grade B+
2# Deolis Guerra, RHP, Grade B+
3# Carlos Gomez, OF, Grade B (undecided, may raise to B+. You guys are right about the injuries, but you also need to be more wary of Mets propaganda.)
4# Kevin Mulvey, RHP, Grade B (may raise to B+)
7# Phil Humber, RHP, Grade B-

[GM-Carson]

There you go Weitzel, making me throw up all over myself. I'm in a very fragile state of mind right now with the possibility of Santana becoming a Met, then you go throwing David Bell's name out there...you bastard!!!

[naylman]

Not only is Santana an amazing pitcher, he is an amazing LEFT-HANDED pitcher. Sit down Mr. Howard, Mr. Utley, goodbye J-Roll's power from the left side of the plate, looks like we rely on Helms instead of Dobbs against him (yikes!), thus leaving our only hope as none other then the Met killer himself, Pat Burrell!

[lekh tizdayen]

While I sink deeper into phillies-induced pessimism the more I think of the mets getting santana, i can't help but think how good some of those hamels-santana matchups could be from a purely baseball perspective. Plus, if santana starts to dominate to much we could always have myers meet him at a bar for shots...perhaps in boston?

[Jimbo]

Low blow on the Myers comment lekh. Phillies induced pessimism? Who's heard of such a thing?

[J. Weitzel]

I invite everyone to take Clout's advice: Knock all hype over NY prospects down by 20 percent.

[lekh tizdayen]

Jimbo: Low blow to whom...Myers?!

[Mike]

J., make sure you send that memo to Bill Smith up in Minny, or wherever he is.

[Andy]

See what happens when I sulk and stop posting? The twins decide they like the Mets!

A few words on anonymous ad hominem posts.

I understand that, in the heat of discussion, we often lapse into ad hominem rhetoric. Sometimes we even resort to unnecessary cheap shots. Making those ad hominem posts with a substitue for our (already anonymous!) normal screen-names is simply shirking the responsibility of claiming the nastiness we shower on each other.

Now. More specifically. "Every One of Andy's Posts" (whomever that is) suggests that my posts are of just three types.

"Half-truth with no supporting facts behind it."

"Less than witty comment."

"Vic Darensbourg, Vic Darensbourg, Vic Darensbourg."

I would suggest that he (she?) missed two other types.
"Increasingly frantic attempts to close HTML tabs he never should have opened;" and "Sad, deliberate attempts to annoy clout."

Observation 1: If we expand point #3 to mean "obsessing about stupid acquisitions by the ownership who will never be seen in bloodstripes in CBP" (which is what the VD is all about), then 90 - 95% of all beerleaguer posts fit into the original 3 categories.

Observation 2: Personally I would have shortened "less than witty" to "half-witted." A much more effective personal invective.

Observation 3: I will never deny that I have a strange sense of humor. But truly, when the Phils are picking up folks like Blackley, Youman and, well, others, from the pitching scrap heap and the Mets are trying their damnest to get Santana, we better be able to laugh at just about anything. It might be a very long 3 years ahead of us.

Observation 4: I personally like clout's form of disagreement much better than personal attacks: asking a "condescending" question, but actually listening for the answer.

In re: Santana; if the Mets get him, yikes! BUT: maybe it will provide some motivation for the Phils upper management to make a real move on the Phils' abysmal pitching.

[Jose, Jose, Jose JOSE!]

Thats right. Y'all better be scared!

Always remember, it took an epic collapse by the Mets for the Phills to win the east last year. I view that as winning by default. It still stings, although watching you guys get swept in the nlds was quite pleasing.

With or without Johan, WATCH OUT! We on a mission in 08.

LETS GO METS!

[cousinrk]

It would decimate the Mets farm system to an exten, but they would still have Mike Pelfrey at 23 years old and they have 3 #1 picks in the upcoming draft due to Glavine leaving, so they could replenish the farm system quickly.

[PhilliesBlow]

Can't wait for this trade to go through. Philly is trash and so are it's residents.

[J. Weitzel]

Uh-oh! Here they come!

[PhilliesBlow]

Readers of this blog - the person who runs this site is censoring all Met fan comments.

That's pretty pathetic.

[joe]

haha f*** the phillies

[J. Weitzel]

Yes, as I'm strongly against comments and page traffic.

[Jose X 4]

lol.

I wonder if they will sell Mets fans tickets to their home games this year.

[Pete]

The only thing worse than the Mets? Mets' fans.

[PhilliesBlow]

haha, good comeback Joe.

Actually, I have to say this a pretty great site as far as an mlb team blog goes.

[Bullishjim]

On the bright side Phils fans: if the Mets had a Cole Hamels they wouldn't feel so desperate to trade the farm for Johan. I'm a Mets fan and I am dreading facing CH for years to come...

[Question for Phillies Fans]

Mets fan here. What are the Phils going to do with Ryan Howard with respect to a long-term contract. When does he reach free agency? What type of deal will it take to keep him? 7 years/150 million?

[Mike]

We might as well plan for '09...

[gbaked]

The only thing worse than the Phillies? Phillies' fans.

/fixed

[J. Weitzel]

Bullishjim: Believe it or not, Cole Hamels is a name that's rarely come up in conversation this winter, and there's a reason behind that. I think fans are legitimately scared about his elbow and his injured past and they've shied away from getting their hopes up. It's difficult for people to think Hamels and "years to come." At least for me it is. Phillies fans tend to be pessimists, as you can tell.

[Dan]

god, i hate the mets.....and all their jort-wearing fans....cant wait to rock my new J-Roll t shirt to opening night at Shea.

don't come on here and talk s#$t when no deal has been made yet.

[Tray]

Not exactly the best news, but there's always the wild card. As many of you may have forgot, we actually finished in a tie with the Padres and Rockies last season. Of course, facing Santana five or so times a year might put a small dent in our record.

[AWH]

Jose, go back to metsblog and act like a dick over there.

OK, here I go again sticking my neck out. I do not fear Johann Santana on the Mets. I can't explain why. Am I worried to a degree? Yes, but not to the point that I think the Phillies won't be able to compete.

The Phillies have scored more runs than the Mets in each of the last two years, so say what you want about the Mets aging lineup, the Phillies' has proved to be better.

If run differential really does matter, how much of a run differential will Santana make? Any guesses from the sabre guys?

Besides, look at the bright side of things:

If the Mets get Santana, it will force the Phillies ownership group to put up or shut up. No longer will Dave Montgomery be able to hide behind the "Of course we want to win" rhetoric. They will either make the moves necessary to remain competitive, or fans will soon realize that 1993 and 2007 were aberrations in their 25+ years of what has been subpar ownership, and call for their heads.

Philadelphia is not Kansas City, where fans meekly accept that they are in a small, uncompetitive market. Philly fans will finally direct their ire not at any "GM of the Day", they will increasingly focus the bile rising from the sinking feeling in their guts at John Middleton, Claire Betz, the Buck brothers, and of course Giles and Montgomery. They will be called out by name.

Gillick, Amaro (who lacks credibility now), and the rest of marginal talents in the baseball operation will have even more difficulty selling their snake oil, and Monty and the marketing dept. will have a tough time selling tickets, to the point where price increases will be excruciatingly difficult.

They will suffer attendance drops of 600,000+, and be villified on talk radio, on the internet, and increasingly, in their own ballpark.

The Mets getting Santana will force the Phillies to fulfill clout's prophecy:

"The Phillies will either pay up or drop out".

[Bullishjim]

Understood, JW.

Hamels is filthy and if he's healthy he's going to win a lot of games. If he were a Met we'd already be building statues for the guy. ;)

[Mets+Santana=WS Champs 08]

F the phillies with your over weight over rated first baseman. and your fag second baseman. and your gap tooth short stop. if the this deal goes down you guys have no chance. Just think of our rotation if it happens:
1. Santana 16-21 wins
2. Pedro 15+ wins if healthy
3. Maine 15+ wins
4. Perez 15+ wins
5. Phelfrey 10+ wins

our starters could easily win 70-75 games alone let alone our bullpen which would now include orlando hernadez gives him some rest by going in the bullpen 1-2 innings every other game

[Dan]

despite your disgraceful lack of class (must be a Queens/SI/LI/Brooklyn thing), the two players you mentioned are both MVP's and Utley can win in 08... and by the way i wouldnt be throwin that word around about our married 2B when your SS is questionable to say the least

[AWH]

Mets+Santana=WS Champs 08,

Then I guess we should just give the trophy to the Mets now, huh?

We don't even have to play the games, right?

Your post alone shows how stupid and ignorant Mets fans are.

[Doug]

Clearly, Mets+Santana=WS Champs 08 is a fool.

And this is coming from a proud, lifelong Mets fan.

[Rob]

The class of the league has spoken.. His name is a phrase.. back to Shea airport where you have obviously gotten brain damage from the jet fuel.

[Slugdog]

Question for Phillies Fans: Howard has come to his first year of arbitration eligibility and will no doubt get a big raise in any case. The big-fellow doesn't reach free agency until after 2011 (when he'll be 31) so the Phillies could ink a one year arbitration salary every year until then. They could also offer Howard a contract. This would have to be a pretty big deal, rivaling Pujols' 7/$100mil contract that was signed in a similar situation in 2004. The difference is that Pujols was 24 when he signed that deal and Howard is 28 today. Some have said that the Phils should wait out RyHo's arb. eligible years and let him walk in free agency because of his age and size, whereas others feel he will mash for years to come and should be locked in now for far less than it will take in 4 years. I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't mind seeing the Phils give Howard a contract, but 7 years is a bit to much for a player who's best comps tended to decline as they aged significantly. I would say that a 4 or 5 year deal ($80-90mil) would be a great fit and give Howard good piece of mind that his near future is secure in Philly.

[Hubie]

"The Phillies have scored more runs than the Mets in each of the last two years, so say what you want about the Mets aging lineup, the Phillies' has proved to be better."

UGH, no kidding. You also play in a park where left-center is 350 ft.

[jhart]

Cerrone makes a comment and then his minions come out of the woodwork. Such civil conversation too.

[Jose X 4]

AHW,

I don't know how you did it, but you figured out a fool-proof method to determine the goodness of a team!

If one team scores more total runs than another, then they must be the overall better team! WOW! Who needs to take into account ERA, Defense, or the fact that your homefield is a little league park.

Just Runs. Who-da-thunk it?

[Lynsk]

I really enjoy this board b/c there wasn't igornant trolling going on. Just phillies talk. Did a mets blog put all these mets fans up to this? It seems like an odd time for them to be talking trash especially with their epic end of season collapse and their team making less of an impact with the free agent market than the Phils. very odd.

[Doug]

Obviously, Cerrone should have known better than to even make the post. MetsBlog commenters are worse than ever before. Most of the original readers of that site have stopped posting comments because it is so negative and ridiculous over there.

[Not a trolling met fan]

I am also a Mets fan but unlike my fellow peers, I am not going to come here and disrespect you guys. The Phillies won the division and they will have a bull's eye on their back this year. A santana trade would be great and would make the Mets the early favorites but it doesn't matter until they play the games.

Also, Reyes has a girlfriend and 2 daugthers, so there goes your argument about him swinging the other way. (pun intended)

[Rob]

so Jose.. since you're in a "big" park, I guess your pitchers suck then huh?

[Doug]

*and yes, I am a die-hard Mets fan, for those wondering.

[Metfan]

Let's not lump all the Mets fans with those idiots that give us a bad name. Both the Phillies and the Mets have had to deal with some brutal brutal stretches of bad teams so i believe we are in the same boat.

I give the Phillies credit for playing their tails off while the Mets were in the slide. However, if Johan Santana was a met, I think we would have the division locked up for a good few seasons.

[Andrew]

Please remember, Phillies fans, that there are obnoxious fans for all teams. Of course, you're well aware of your own reputation for being THE MOST obnoxious, but I assure you, as a Mets fan, that there are plenty of Mets fans who I can't stand for reasons of them being stupid/annoying/loud. And some of them have posted here. But let's be honest: Phillies fans are not, by and large, the most knowledgeable and intelligent fans out there. So although I know it's real fun for you to hate Mets fans, since most Philadelphians have a little-brother complex toward New York (and I say this as someone who has lived in and around Philadelphia his whole life, but inherited New York fandom from his Brooklyner dad), calling Mets fans in general stupid or ignorant because some idiotic ones posted here makes you no better than they are.

Anyway, if we get Santana, we'll be rockin' in the short run. Dunno about the long run, though.

[EastFallowfield]

I don't get the Mets fans argument that our offense isn't so good because we play half our games in CBP. Aren't we going to play half our games there every year until the next time we get a new stadium?

[GaryNY]

I agree with Mets+Santana=WS champs 08
not his name or the first pharagraph

but in the rotation i could see santana winning 16-20 games and pedro about 15 if healthy and maine and oly 15 each. i would def put pelfrey in the tale end of the rotation and move hernandez to the pen to rest him and keep him healthy

[dwright]

I am a Mets fan, getting Santana would put the Mets as the preseason favorite to win the division but by no means are they a lock. Baseball has a mental component to it and frankly mentally the Mets are shot right now. Can they get thier so-called swagger back? yes, will they? who knows. Santana would help though. The Philies will contend or not contend for the division based on the back end of the rotation and the bullpen.

Not meaning to scare Philly fans but ur three best relievers are Romero (never had 2 good years in a row) Gordon (falling apart physically) and Lidge (yea goodluck with that guy, he should be committed)

One more thing stop with that f-ing Eagles chant they suck and always will deal with it

[da burg's greatest]

"despite your disgraceful lack of class (must be a Queens/SI/LI/Brooklyn thing), the two players you mentioned are both MVP's and Utley can win in 08... and by the way i wouldnt be throwin that word around about our married 2B when your SS is questionable to say the least"

Reyes is married, so get off his jock. Reyes should have been the MVP in 06, but the voters gave it to howard because they were wowed by his HR's. Don't even get me started on this year's MVP award. Wright was the clear cut MVP. Even though his team collapsed around him he hit .397 down the stretch. He did his part.

"

F the phillies with your over weight over rated first baseman. and your fag second baseman. and your gap tooth short stop. if the this deal goes down you guys have no chance. Just think of our rotation if it happens:
1. Santana 16-21 wins
2. Pedro 15+ wins if healthy
3. Maine 15+ wins
4. Perez 15+ wins
5. Phelfrey 10+ wins

our starters could easily win 70-75 games alone let alone our bullpen which would now include orlando hernadez gives him some rest by going in the bullpen 1-2 innings every other game"

Enough of this idea that if we add a pitcher El duque should move to the pen. he has downright nasty, filthy stuff 2/3 times he pitches. he starts when healthy.

[Crime]

Maybe Santana will help end the Mets' 8-game losing streak to the Phillies.
What really scares me is the Mets' great track record of giving long-term deals.

Yeah, it's just sour grapes.

[MPN]

Is Matthew Cerrone the heir apparent to the Rick Cerrone designer jeans (10 Jeans) fortune? Kind of like Sue Ellen Mischke's fortune, only if she was not hot, a man, and had a really bad 70s Mike Brady-like perm.

[Dan]

i mean.......this is like Metsblog II over here....enough already...i would prefer debating the merits of Feliz/Ensberg to this crap...yes, we get it, not all Mets fans are jort-wearing losers living in their parents basement...

And Andrew, please dont talk about our little brother complex when i hear yankees suck chants at Shea during extra innings of a Phillies game. Pathetic.

[Slugdog]

While I agree that Santana in Shea = 16-20 wins. The other projections are pretty far off from those of most and from those of the expert projecting systems like PECOTA.

Temper your expectations a little bit.
Pelfrey - 5-10
Maine - 10-15
Perez - 10-15

[yankee suck chants]

the only reason why you hear the yankees suck chant is bc an obnoxious yankee fan comes to shea and gets drunk and starts talking crap to us fans and one drunk met fan starts to chant and then it leads to a whole section

[AC]

As a Met fan, I can honestly say I'm downright scared of the phils lineup, esp 1-4, which is as good as any in MLB. But settle down with how the phils have scored more runs the past 2 seasons.....Citizens Bank ballpark is a little league field compared to Shea where homeruns turn into routine flies.

[A Die Hard Mets Fan]

I Hope Santana comes to the Mets and dominates the Phillies allll season. LLLLLLETTTTTTTTSSSS GOOOO METTTSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

[Andrew]

Dan, Rangers fans chant "Potvin sucks" when the Rangers aren't playing the Islanders, and that was 1979! New York fans hold grudges; particularly stupid ones.

Like I said, everyone has their stupid fans. And every real fan of a team with a crosstown rival hates the rival. And some of those fans will obnoxiously take up "Yankees suck" chants at times when there's no reason to do so. I'm not about that. Most fans, in fact, are not about that. But sometimes people get drunk at the game and do dumb stuff, and that's a fact of life I'm sure you're quite familiar with, being a Philadelphia fan.

[mets17]

Some of you Mets fans are pathetic, I am a Mets fan and I would never post on another teams site and bash them. How would you like it if we don't get Santana and the obnoxious Yankee fans come on MetsBlog and harass us. The Phillies won the division last year and we collapsed, so if you have nothing insiteful to say on the Johan trade then go back to MetsBlog.

Thank you

Santana will definitely win 20+ games with the Mets. I agree with the numbers for Maine at 10-15

But Perez and Pelfrey are more like:

Pelfrey - 2-6
Perez - 8-12

Pelfrey got abused in his time in the bigs last year. He probably needs another year or two yet to develop.

Ihe key is the health of Pedro. I don't see him healthy for a full year again.

If the Mets don't get Johan, then this will all be moot anyway.

[Dan]

fair enough. But for the love of god, PLEASE stop playing the mortal kombat theme song at Shea....last time i checked, it's 2008.

[Dan]

fair enough. But for the love of god, PLEASE stop playing the mortal kombat theme song at Shea....last time i checked, it's 2008.

[plummetdown]

i am a huge mets fan. but i think the phillies are the team to beat.

one of there biggest weakness was bullpen. what they did do? (Brad Lidge) if he can regain his 05 form. there are the team to beat....HANDS DOWN.

plus you just added myers to your rotation.

Mets haven't done anything.....

they just weaken there hitting by getting a career 2.20 catcher.

Lost glavine...(he might have sucked in the playoffs but he was a innings eater...and he wasn't too bad against the phillies)

soo far i see the phillies as the team to beat...

getting johan will be great....NO doubt. but it just adds to what glavine did last year....+5 games.....

I won't lie.....your second base and first baseman, and short stop are pretty dam good.

and any fool would say otherwise.....

i can even say if your 2nd baseman didn't go down...he would have won the mvp...

and you already have a ace in c.hamels....

i guess i am still bitter about last year....

[Matt Cerrone]

I apologize for the trolling. Please keep the conversation across blogs civil.

[Andrew]

Hahahaha I'll send them a memo, Dan, but I don't think it'll work. I REALLY wish they would stop doing the "Sweet Caroline" singalong. It's just awful. That was the second-worst part for me of going to Shea last year. (I have the Saturday season ticket plan, which is probably gonna leave me screwed when they move into their new, smaller stadium, so that's the worst part.)

[MetsFanBen]

Hey guys, Mets fan here with a few things to say:
First of all, it's definitely regretable that Cerrone made a post directing us to read these comments, because whether he wanted it or not of course there are those few jerks who are gonna take it as an invitation to go trolling. But that said, every team has fans who do that, it's a mistake to think that says something about an entire fanbase.
As a Mets fan who goes to school near Philadephia I really enjoy the Mets-Phillies rivalry, far more than our rivalry with the Braves, and I think it's gonna be a good battle between us next year.

In response to Andrew, who asked:
"I don't get the Mets fans argument that our offense isn't so good because we play half our games in CBP. Aren't we going to play half our games there every year until the next time we get a new stadium?"
The reason that is a legitimate argument is that yes, you will continue to play in CBP, but half of your games are played against an opponent playing in CBP as well. The thing about CBP is that it doesn't inflate runs all that much (3.4% in '08), but it inflates HRs enormously (41.8%). So it's not that your offense isn't an excellent offense, it is. But some of your individual players' HR totals probably are a bit inflated. And it's true, the same thing can be said about Met pitchers pitching at Shea (Shea deflates HRs by 10% and runs by 8.4%). Shea makes our pitchers slightly overrated, but our hitting slightly underrated. CBP makes philly hitters' power overrated, but their pitching somewhat underrated. The best thing to do when it comes to adjusting for park factors is look at home/away splits, or use adjusted stats like OPS+ or ERA+

[soxfan08]

you are all idiots. the nl doesnt matter go sox

[All very interesting]

It's amazing what one story in a Minneapolis paper can create. Being a Mets fan, the idea of having Johan would be a dream. He's hands down baseball's best pitcher, there is no comparison. However, until this trade actually occurs, this is all just rumors. I think with Santana the Mets clearly become the team to beat - that's a solid 1-5, plus you bump one of the starters to the pen. The one thing that every is overlooking is how hungry this team will be this year - last year they really played with a sense of entitlement. It's sad to think that they needed to be motivated, but for whatever reason they did. Hopefully we can get this done, if not, it'll be a dog fight, but I love our chances. Jose and Delgado will come back strong, plus I'm feeling good about Pat the Bat hitting closer to 200 than 280 this year. Either way, we shall see - and for the guy using runs scored as a comparison, just remember that pitching and defense also matter... which Johan conveniently does.

[Robbie B]

For all you Phillie fans, like me, who think the mets acquiring Santana will mean the mets have mortgaged their future..think again. The Mets have 3 draft picks in the first 1 1/2 rounds on this years draft. They will be reloading the farm soon enough. There is no way we can win a division with Santana and an improved Oliver Perez throwing to our lefties. I guess it beats getting swept in the first round again.

[Matt]

Another Mets fan here.

Look - I don't care if we do get Johan, Philly is still the team to beat until they are dethroned as NL champs. Say what you want about your pitching but you have a 1-2 of Hamels and Myers and that's just as solid as Santana-Pedro. Offensively, Philly is better. The difference will be the bullpens and the head to head battle. It should be Philly-Mets to the wire, that's for sure.

You want pathetic? Imagine being a Marlins fan right now...LOL

[clout]

Boy, this site went to hell in a hurry didn't it? Sheesh!

Tray: Read my lips: The Phillies will not win the Wild Card in 2008. If they make the playoffs it will be by winning the division, Santana or no Santana.

[clout]

matt: I pretty much agree. And that's why Pat Gillick has been working hard all winter on building up the bullpen, right Pat? Pat? PAT?????

[Jose X 4]

I am sure all Philly fans & Met Fans can unit together against Soxfan08.

The DH is a joke and the AL watered down version baseball. Pitchers just can't roid rage like Clemens and go headhunting if they have to step in the box next time around. Double switching, when to pull a pitcher, pitchers offensive skills, defense, manufacturing runs are all foreign to the AL.

Speed, defense, in-game strategy are the most exciting part of the game for me. Yea, homers and trips are great, but it is only one dimension of what makes this game great and fun.

Ps. Boston sucks.

[Roach]

Doug,

As someone who's been on here to rib some of you guys (and an original MetsBlog reader/poster), i couldnt tell you how spot on you are. The site has become ridiculous and seriously lacking in class.

Speaking of which, I hate Philadelphia...just saying :-)

[Kaylub]

Johan > Hamels
Pedro > Myers
Maine > Kendrick
Perez > Moyer
Duque > Eaton/Other

None of that is even disputable. If the Mets get Johan, they win the division by double digits. I am a scared Philly fan right now

[mark]

lets be realistic. the phillies didnt win the divison, the mets lost it. the phillies will be in the playoffs next year, but a wild card team. even if the mets dont land santana, theres no way there going to let that happen again, and lax off through the whole season then try to do to little to late and suck ass.

[brett]

wow, mets fans seem pretty desperate for attention.

[Robbie B]

As a phillie diehard who is also grounded in reality the though of Santana in a met uniform scares me. He will neutralize our lefty hitters and with the help from NL East vet Schneider we are in trouble. The smelly steamer on top is that Johan, in a small sampling obviously, is a not too shabby .258 hitter.

[mmmm poop]

to the people sayig 8-12 wins, why not 15? he got that last year and it'll be 1 more year of rick peterson with him.

[MetsSox]

The AL might involve less strategy then the NL, yes, but no one can deny the fact that it is unbelievably superior to the NL. The top 4 teams in all of baseball play in 2 divisions (Sox, Skanks, Indians, Tigers). No NL team can even compete with any of those 4 teams or even the Angels for that matter.
And how exactly does Boston suck? 2 titles in 4 years puts the Sox on top of baseball. Unlike most teams, they built a team with money AND with plenty of young players and prospects. Sox are the champs and are the best team in baseball. And, o yea...they also obliterated the same team that swept the Phils in the playoffs. I don't know why Met fans would have any animosity towards the Sox...and I guess the Phils have small motives. One of the best managers in the game, Terry Francona, was booed out of Philly. I guess he isn't as bad as you philly fans thought. And another great ex-Phil Schilling has helped the Sox win 2 titles. I guess that can cause some anti-sox feelings.
Bottomline, the AL is way way way better than the NL right now and the Sox are the kings of baseball...dont hate

[AWH]

Jose X4, i.e. ignorant oaf:

The term I used was "run differential".

Don't be stupid and try to cherry pick little phrases ot of a post and try to come off as intelligent by doing so.

Deliberately taking people out of context is one of the basic forms of deceit.

[Jose X4]

LoL.

So it's only the "Run Differential" that determines a teams greatness.

Either way its a one dimensional false argument. If every team played in the same park, with the same dimensions under the same weather conditions, then you might have a semblance of an argument.

Oh yea, why am I "ignorant" to say that there are many factors that go into determining a teams overall greatness you over-simplifying simpleton.

Metsox,

100% wrong. The AL & NL are two different games and really cannot be compared. It like an argument over which a better flavor chocolate or Vanilla (I'm a Chocolate man myself)

Remember in 06 when the "weaker NL" was going to get swept by Detroit? How did that work out for the AL? The tigers looked like a little league team kicking the ball all over the place.

That being said, i do give props to the Sox & the revamped Tigers. Those are going to be two tough teams in 08. I say "Sox Suck" in the sense that they are the current best team in baseball and I want to knock them off their pedestal. Didn;t mean to touch a nerve

And regarding Francona; you already admit there is less strategy in AL ball, so I wouldn't give the credit to him for the Sox current greatness. I believe that accolade goes to your GM. That is the current problem with Willie...he is more suited to be an AL manager and he can;'t get over that psychological barrier off 100 pitchers for our SP. But I still have faith in him that he will learn from his mistakes. If not, he's out.

And to all you Philly fans. No Worries, the Metsblog & Co. will be out of here as soon as Cerrone puts out a new post. Then can wallow in your misery in peace. PEACE!

Oh Yea. LETS GO METS>

[im a mets fan]

Yeh, that's right I'm a Mets fan. I love the Mets. Go go Mets! I aslo love cheap, old porn, making myself look like I have the intelligence of 3rd grader (I'm probably crediting myself too much here), and chanting Jose Jose Jose Jose! for no good reason. I wake up to hear (by the way I woke up at 3 after sitting in my house all night by myself drinking myself to the point that I'm incoherent that I passed out and woke up this afternoon) we might trade for Johan Santana just as the Yankees and Red Sox and others have all been rumored to, and what else would a scumbag Mets fan like myslef do other then come on a civil, perhaps best baseball blog around, and post to make myself look like a rambling idiot. Why would I do this? Because what else would I do, I have nothing better to do then chant Jose Jose Jose Jose in my one bedroom apartment to myself. That's right ladies (well actually, I haven't talked to a woman in like 3 years, excluding that time I try to hit on that girl from the Burger King around the corner) and gentlemen, I am a scumbag and proud of it. Let's go grab another 7 game lead in the divison again and pull another historic chokejob in 08 once again! JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSEEEEE!!! Go Mets!!! I'm a moron!!!!

[mets fan, kill me!]

i'm a diehard, lifelong mets fan. if they get santana i'll do a happy dance substantially longer than the month of september in which the mets vomited all over themselves, and me by proxy. but that doesn't guarantee anything, at least not unless santana can pitch every other day, be the every day setup guy and hit 25 home runs. getting him would be huge, but they weren't a dominant starter away from the playoffs last year. not even close. so please feel free to file me under the category of "mets fans with half a brain cell."

[Nervous Philly Fan]

If the Mets land Santana, I will be so pissed. They already have a good team and Santana could make 08 a lot like 06. We played so well at the end of the year but I keep on feeling that if the Mets had not collapsed, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. There are times when I seriously wonder if we can compete with the Mets when they are at full strength physically and mentally.

[relax & eat a cheese steak]

I don't know if it's me, but I have a sneaking suspicion that "i'm a mets fan", IS NOT a mets fan (insert sarcasm here for those that need assistance)

I love all these dual offensive & defensive post here. You call Mets fans Morons, Dicks, Scum bags, intelligence of 3rd graders, etc. You can just taste the "civility" can't you?

And I am sure after we go, you Philly fans will be relieved and resign to your living quarters, where you can don your white gloves and give your monocles a nice shine while you enjoy a nice port by the crackling fireplace, yeeessss, yesssss, indeed, indeed.

Get over yourself. Unlike some minds here, this blog is open, where fans of any ilk can express their opinions. Generalizing all fans (or anything for that matter) is the epitome of ignorance.

Ps. Jose is better that J-Rolls

[im a mets fan]

Jose is better than J-Roll, not "J-Rolls" because Jose has a cool chant of JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSEEEE! unlike J-Roll... so Jose MUST be better then the shortstop who predicted the Phils to win the NL East just because of the intangible factor of the cool chant of JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSEEEE! GO METS WOOHOO IM AN IDIOT!

[im a mets fan]

relax & eat a cheesesteak... haha.. HAHAHAHAHA... HAAAA!!!!!! we are so clever us mets fan, that we are.