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Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Comments

Let's not give a verdict on this move until we see what actually happens. I'm not sure anyone believes that Snelling will be a major part of the Phils 2008 plans unless he shows us something really big.

Scott Posednik cut by the White Sox. 10 days to trade or release him.

reposted from the JRoll thread... breaking news:

this just in... the Mets trade for Johnny Estrada from the Milwaukee Brewers for (drumroll please) Guillermo Mota.

as a Phils fan, i hate this trade. what the hell is Bob Melvin thinking? Mota is terrible without the steroids! i was so looking forward to facing him again next year. and estrada is not half bad. certainly better than torrealba... thoughts?

It's funny they did this cause I was just thinking yesterday they could use better OF depth beyond the fourth outfielder everyone is talking about. I was actually thinking about Langerhans. After Werth, the list is brutal, including Roberson.

Hey - the Iron Pigs could have their first great player right here in Snelling ...

Agreed JW. Snelling is probably just to give the Phils some depth at the OF position going into spring training.

It's a win for the Mets because they don't need to lock up a stiff like Torrealba or LoDuca.

Estrada for Mota? I don't know the Brewers well enough but this only has upside for the Mets. Unload a guy who underachieved big-time in NY and was despised by the fans. Plus, the Mets shore up their catcher spot without having to commit big dollars to a marginal guy like Torreabla or a guy past his prime in LoDuca.

It would be nice if Gillick would be able to make a single trade where the Phils clearly came out ahead.

Estrada for Mota? I don't know the Brewers well enough but this only has upside for the Mets. Unload a guy who underachieved big-time in NY and was despised by the fans. Plus, the Mets shore up their catcher spot without having to commit big dollars to a marginal guy like Torreabla or a guy past his prime in LoDuca.

MG: You mean like Jamie Moyer for nothing? Or Tadihito Iguchi for nothing?

can we agree that gillick has been much better than wade with in season moves?
also, and i have no info in front of me to back this up, it feels like gillick is quicker to turn over the roster than wade. wade tinkered less. it was as if he had his plan and if it didn't work he gave it another chance. where as gillick will fine things more than wade. agree? disagree?

I'm on the Snelling bandwagon if it means less Roberson and another moderately competent bat off the bench. if he's meant to be more than a fifth OF, it would be downright criminal of Gillick, but I'll take my own advice and wait to see what else he's got up his sleeve.

I'm not terribly impressed by Estrada. he's a minor upgrade over LoDuca at most. offensively it's a wash where they get a little and lose a little OBP. defensively, Estrada had literally the worst arm in baseball last year. they manage to get younger and avoid tying themselves down to a Torrealba deadweight, but their budget's big enough that they could eat a mistake like that anyway. it's possibly an incremental improvement, but hardly earth-shattering.

um, get a little power and lose a little OBP. sorry.

Saw Snelling some here in DC. He's got potential but I doubt he stays healthy. I'm not happy with this guy as Werth's platoon mate. I'd like to see some power from that corner spot and this looks like a Helms/Dobbs loser to me.

I'm not quite done celebrating Jimmy, so I wanted to thank Jason for using a picture of Rollins with the "Vuk" patch highly visable. I have to believe that Jimmy's season is one that Vuk would have been beaming about.

I would have preferred to keep J-Roll up tonight, but the news moves fast on Beerleaguer. Obviously, the discussion still belongs to Jimmy.

So which season was more memorable for people: Howard breaking the Phillies HR mark and winning it in 06, or J-Roll in 07?

ae: I agree with your assessment both of Snelling and Estrada. In Estrada's defense, his arm was hurt last year and he since had arthoscopic surgery to remove bone chips. in the past, he's been good on defense. But he's no big upgrade over LoDuca.

Surely, Snelling is viewed as a 25th man, a clear upgrade over Roberson and young enough to surprise on the upside. It would be way too risky to pencil him in as the platoon partner for Werth.

Estrada hasn't been good at all except for his fluke 2004 season, and he's going to be 32. I don't think this is an upgrade over Lo Duca at all... although the Mets didn't give up much to get him.

Snelling's numbers from the minors look good; but he truly is the "walking bruise."

Also, I bet under Lopes tuterage he'd be able to swipe a few bags - you know, if he still has any knees left beneath all those bruises.

returning the conversation to our MVP i'd have to say that JRoll's 2007 season was more memorable for me. i'm kind of a small-fry so i'm more impressed by his speed and slick fielding than i am by Howard's massive power. additionally, i don't think it's possible to separate the rollercoaster ride thrill of the 2007 from Jimmy's season and this past campaign was my most favorite season ever. even beyond the WS charge in 1993.

Jason: I'd say J-Roll's for a couple reasons. First, his accompanied a pennant, which is huge. Second, the drama of the 20th triple on the final day was significantly higher than Howard breaking the HR mark.

Jason- This season I think is going to be considered way more exciting because of Jimmy's boast and the division title. I venture that in twenty years when we look back upon this, we'll always remember Jimmy's MVP first, and then have to remind ourselves that Howard won it the year before.

I'd also just like to say that while I, of course, think Jimmy is an incredible choice for MVP, I can't support the notion that David Wright should be excluded because his team collapsed. The numbers show he was the BEST player in the league in August and September- he was supposed to make the Mets bullpen not blow all those games in the last 2 weeks of the season? Come on people. My feeling is that extra value should be added in the case of Jimmy, when his energy and leadership are clearly known to people around the game as being valuable to the clubhouse. However, I don't think it should be taken away from someone like Wright, who was trying as hard as anyone, and whose teammates simply let him down. Someone being a leader depends on his teammates' ability to respond to leadership. The Mets simply collapsed because of bad pitching- I haven't looked it up, but my subjective memory tells me their offense was still producing at a good rate in September. I guess what I'm saying is that Jimmy deserved to win for a lot of reasons- putting down David Wright's candidacy for stupid ones simply devalues the credibility of a lot of posters here, and I don't like that. Wright was the best player for a team who missed the playoffs by a game- much like Ryan Howard, the MVP, last year (who also missed the playoffs because of a terrible bullpen).

True, Jason, and I wouldn't have known without it.

Even thought I was at the games when Ryan hit 48 and when he hit 58, it was Jimmy this season. Between the statement, showing up each day, his numbers against the Mets and the triple on the last day, Jimmy was the integral part to the best Phillies season in 14 years. While Ryan’s home runs were great, we didn’t win the East or the Wild Card.

Jimmy's a leader and has been around here for some time now. So his MVP season is tops in my mind starting with the "call", playing every game (every game!) with intensity and grit. His numbers are huge for anyone especially a short stop. His glove, sliding to the 3-hole when we needed a bat there, doing all the things the team needed...he really had a complete season.

Jimmy by far. Although, I was a bit uncomfortable with Howard winning the MVP since I tend to think that the MVP should come from a playoff team. Howard had a great season... but this year Jimmy was just lights out.

Congrats to J-Roll!

Well-deserved. He was so focused all year. I'll always remember being at the Sept 30th game...his triple...you could tell the instant the ball left the bat he was going for third...he wanted to join that elite 20-20-20-20 club soooooo bad.

In my mind it ould have been a great season without getting 20 triples, but that last hit of the season is probably what got him the MVP trophy. Holliday had a great season and is a nice player, but his stats are a product of Coors Field. Take away the thin air and he's not so extraordinary - certainly not as extraordinary as our J-Roll.

To wit, I'll bet if you polled all 28 NL GMs who don't work on Denver or Philly as to who they'd rather have, I bet Rollins would win that vote too.


As far as Snelling is concerned...zzzzzzzz.

I'd much prefer the 'ing' be removed from the end of his name and he be transmorgrified into someone whose first name is Ian.

Wonder what it would take to pry that guy loose from the Bucks? He'd sure fit in nicely as a #4.

I guess those Mets fans know how we felt when Johnny Callison got screwed in '64.

Rich: And you can imagine how Giants fans felt in 1964. Willie Mays led the league in HRs, slugging, OPS, runs created, was 2nd in runs scored, 2nd in extra base hits, 3rd in RBI and he won a Gold Glove.

He finished SIXTH in the MVP balloting.

Melvin Mora says he'll waive his FULL NO TRADE CLAUSE to go to the Phils. Any thoughts?

Well, at least Willie won it the following year.

I am actually a huge fan of this deal to get Snelling. There's absolutely no downside to it, and a substantial chance for some upside.

Obviously, if this were 3 years ago, I'd be even more excited, b/c it's basically been 3 years of injuries for the guy. But as a devout fantasy player, Snelling has long been on ppl's radars.

I'm not saying he going to be great, but this guy definitely has skills. Even when struggling in limited ABs in the majors, he had a great OBP, which to me shows at least some skill at the plate. Let's see if it develops even more.

And his minor league numbers are phenomenal. Let's see if it translates to the bigs, but hey, this was one of those deals that we never saw Wade attempt - going for that intriguing guy --- THAT'S the word I'm looking for - "intriguing". It's been a while since we've had that here in Philly, but with Lidge and Snelling, I'm getting more and more excited.

Of course, watch Snelling tear an ACL in the preseason and end up with a .211/.290/.410 line in 58 ABs.
:P

I wish I was as certain as everyone has been so far about Gillick not considering Snelling the platoon partner for Werth. Barring injury, I have a sneaking suspicion that's exactly how Gillick views him. I hope I'm wrong, but...

CJ - The Moyer trade has arguably been Gillick's best move since becoming GM. Iguchi was a nice trade too but that trade was Kenny Williams making up for the Garcia trade.

Overall though I wouldn't say that player acquisitions have been a strong point for Gillick though - especially trades. The Abreu and Garcia trades were total flops and even the Thome trade had mixed results at best. Hopefully the Lidge trade turns out differently.

The crazy thing is that even though Gillick has been the GM for going on three seasons now - almost every likely starter (Ruiz, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Victorino, Burrell) and 3/5 of the scheduled starting rotation (Hamels, Myers, Kendrick) next year are still left over from the Wade's tenure.

A lot of points you can make but one is that Gillick's record at acquiring players so through FA and trades have been pretty underwhelming and likely much isn't going to change this offseason.


As for Gillick turning over the roster,

Alby - I don't think so but a platoon of Werth/Snelling would be one of the worst RFs in the NL.

A lot to respond to here...

ZT, where did you hear this about Mora? I recall expressing an inclination to play for the Phillies in the past when Abreu was around. His productivity has severely curtailed in recent seasons, but I would certainly take him starting against LHP over Wes Helms and he could certainly be had a lot more cheaply than Tejada.

Jason: this might surprise everyone, but I actually think Howard's MVP was the more memorable. It was his first full season and he broke a 120 year-old team record for homers and led the charge from nowhere in the second half. It was awe-inspiring to witness.

And then there's the buzz-killing Chris Snelling move...so long as he isn't seen as anyone who would be counted on to start more than 10-15 games next season, I'm okay with it. What the hell, it adds a smidgen of depth. I cannot imagine that he is Gillick's idea of a solution for a RF platoon component.

As far as Mota/Estrada...a classic case of each team taking the other's refuse. Replacing LoDuca with Estrada is a purely lateral move for the Mets.

Snelling: Typical value village Gillick move.
Mora: 35 years old. 1 maybe 2 year upgrade if anything.

RSB, Rosenthal reported the Mora story. Philadelphia was the only team specifically named.

note that Rosenthal also mentions that Mora is willing to move to left, which I'm sure will start Burrell-for-Mora talks from someone. aside from the FNTC please note that swapping Mora for Burrell is a pretty enormously significant downgrade and doesn't really save all that much cash (Mora's making $8+M in both 2008 and 2009).

ae, here's a lauger of a trade:

Burrell to the O's for Mora and Bedard - yeah...that'll get done.

Until 2003, Mora was your basic journeyman utility infielder. He spent most of his career in the minors, where he had nearly 3000 ABS & hit only 36 homeruns. Out of nowhere, he started hitting homeruns in 2002, and then in 2003 through 2005, he put up big numbers. In 2006, baseball stepped up its drug testing policy and, lo and behold, Mora's numbers plummeted.

I'd keep away.

BAP: Given what is known about the Orioles' clubhouse and performance-enhancing drugs, I have to agree. Though, again, I don't know how many legit options there are for 3B and I just am repulsed by the idea of watching Helms play there again.

Boy, does Baltimore have some bad contracts on their hands...

This isn't a serious trade. Snelling will either outshine everyone in spring training and make the 25-man roster, or spend (nearly) his entire season in Allentown.

Remember, guys, not everything is to fortify the major leagues. Sign #1 that they are looking to help Allentown is that it was a cash deal. The Rays were looking to unload him, and the Phils offered more thousands (hundreds?) than the second highest bidder. Sign Nos. 2-4 were adequately covered by Jason. (Injuries, good minor league skills, "AAA Inventory.)

Don't forget, Jason Werth has his own share of injury problems. With the Dodgers, he was projected as a big HR guy, and was building his strength back last season. He has yet to show us his potential. Snelling is at best wasting his time in Allentown. At worst, he is a platoon starting right fielder because Werth got hurt, yet again.

The biggest problem is that means Chris Roberson may now the new Michael Bourn. The same Chris Roberson who displayed that he could not field his position, when he blew a "hold" opportunity for Tom Gordon against the Braves on September. Oh, boy!!!

Wow, can't believe how down you all are on Snelling.

Most likely scenario is that he spends another injury-riddled year between triple-A, the bigs, and the DL.

But if he can stay healthy, there's almost no doubt the guy can hit. It really wouldn't surprise me at all if he does emerge as Werth's platoon partner, and I would guess that if both stayed intact--again, the biggest question mark by far--they'd produce above the league average.

Why did the Phillies win in 2007 where they'd fallen just short so many previous years? Because the talent distribution became very slightly less top-heavy. The Rollins/Howard/Utley/Hamels stars still shone, but they got more support from players like Dobbs, Werth, Ruiz, Madson, Romero, et al. Snelling could be another valuable supporting character. And given the cost--a bit of cash and a spot on the 40-man--how can you not like this?

I re-read my post, and with the exception of typos and problems with "typepad" not posting what I wrote, I just want to clarify...

I am not a Jason Werth supporter. He had "up-side/learning curve" power numbers with the Dodgers, but never showed his potential, like the scouts said he would. .262/.348/115 are his best stats with the Dodgers, which isn't real impressive. He is likely a highly touted bust, but can still effective and can do damage with a team that has three perenial MVP cotestants. He might be "just enough," much like the 3B position the Phils are resigned to.

Can we all give a collective sigh?

Congrats to J-Roll! What a nice pickup for everyone's spirits here, too; after days of grey weather, losing Lowell- not that we ever had him, and tossing around endless permutations of fringe trades.

Sensed the award would go to Holliday ( a tip of the hat to him for a nice season as well) since a Phil took it last year as a member of a non playoff team. Accordingly, I kind of figured that if there was any doubt, some voters might shy away from giving it to a Phil two years in a row.

Amazing when you think about it. Two MVP's in two years and a third player who's the best in baseball at his position and is fully capable of winning an MVP any year he stays healthy. Toss in a potential Cy Young candidate and think about the fact that these are pretty young guys who seemingly are glad to be Phillies (think Rolen for the other side of that coin) and should be with the team for years to come.

Intangibles. I remember when Rollins signed his contract a few years ago he said that management wanted him to be a leader. It seems to me this is the year he really took that role to heart; he led by words and man did he back it up when it counted.

Seems there is almost a three person young leadership committee coming into its own.(I would say four but I've almost started thinking of Rowand in the past tense).

You have Utley as the tough, quiet gamer who leads by example, doesn't say much, but when he does people listen. J-Roll adds the swagger any good team needs. Howard, I could see evolving into sort of a Stargell figure over time. Throw in the classy Moyer with his old sage persona and the fact that they all seem to enjoy playing for Cholly, and there are some real positives. Let's hope management does their part to fill in the missing pieces.

Thanks J-Roll. I'm feeling better about being a Phils fan than I have since the division title game months ago. Here's to you and 2008.

Great move if it's for outfield depth in the minors. Bad move if he's the RF platoon partner with Werth.

After the Snelling acquisition, overnight I got this idea...

I think we should all just go talk to Gillick about the team. He'll be easy to find, he'll be the guy standing next to the bargain bin in the Dollar Store.

I am so happy about Jimmy Rollins. It will put a spring in my stride all day (and I need it, with a forecast high here today of 27 and a low tonight of 9).

Here's Matt Holliday's statement (from ESPN.com): "It's Jimmy Rollins' day, and I don't want to step on his day". Um, something like "Congratulations to a great player" might have shown a bit more class, dontcha think? Lumpy head.

I hope you will forgive me the little whine. It's a happy day.

I share some of dajafi's optimism on Snelling. I have to call this one down the middle, so I naturally have some concerns about past injuries, but the upside, as dajafi notes, is considerable. And Snelling is younger than Victorino.

I wouldn't go so far as to say a Werth/Snelling tandem would be above average, but I will say there's a chance Snelling would be a better producer than Bourn was. The offseason tradeoff so far has been Geary/Bourn/Costanzo/cash for Lidge/Bruntlett/Snelling. That's a nice tradeoff, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cash considerations were considerable - more than Russell Branyan cash considerations.

Important transaction to report (From Inquirer): The Cleveland Indians became the latest team to tap into Japan's talented pitching pool, agreeing yesterday to a $6.25 million, two-year contract with free-agent closer Masahide Kobayashi.

Kobayashi was considered the top Japanese reliever on the market, so the bar is set. I would like to see the Phillies make a play at the other relievers on the list.

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports today that the Phillies are in on Kuroda (or are believed to be in) and that his (Kuroda's) agents (who also represent Fukudome) have moved their offices to Seattle to negotiate with US teams. (The Mariners are not interested in Fukudome.)

As for Snelling, this could be a useful addition. Worst case he is a good AAAA player who helps win some games for the Iron Pigs.

I still find it funny that people think Iguchi was a give back from Kenny Williams. People, we're talking about pretercompetitive folks here in front offices, the Iguchi trade was clearly a salary dump, nothing more, nothing less.

Jason, is that $6.25M per year or total? I saw that Cleveland signed Kobayashi a couple days ago, but hadn't heard what the contract looked like.

Guaranteed $6 million over the two years, with a $3.25 million option for '10 or a $250,000 buyout.

Jason asked: Which season was more memorable for people: Howard breaking the Phillies HR mark and winning it in 06, or J-Roll in 07?

I vote for the Howard MVP season. I grew up with Mantle, Maris, Mays and Aaron chasing Babe Ruth's records. I've always liked the homerun kings. There's a soft spot in my heart for guys like Mike Schmidt and Greg Luzinski. I love Ryan's smile and demeanor. J-Roll's great, Chase is great and I love them both, but I vote for the big guy crushing the ball to places where balls ain't supposed to go.

I also just read FoxSports' Dayn Perry article saying the MVP should have gone to Wright. What a d@#$breath!

about wright and the mvp - someone posted earlier about wright's great numbers in august-september... correct me if i'm wrong but i seem to remember him grounding into many inning ending double plays during their collapse

"Great August and September!" Back in my day, we played baseball from April until September. That's how you chose an MVP.

Translation: Rollins over Holliday, Wright and any other name you throw at me.

RMP- That's just stupid. He was offensively the BEST player in the NL in August and September. If I were a Mets fan, I could remember Jimmy going 0-4 in the 2nd to last game of the year in which we lost a 1 game division lead. But I don't- because using subjective memory about very limited events is retarded. Saying "I think I remember him grounding into some double plays in September, so he shouldn't be MVP" is wrong on so many levels, I'm gonna stop discussing it. Even the most anti-Mets fan here (and I hate the Mets as much as anyone) has to view that as just illogical and useless.

I had to laugh in the SI.com column alongside the NL MVP article saying that Jimmy shouldn't have won. As much as I hate Dayn Perry, he at least tries to make some sort of point to his argument. This guy (who I have never even seen on there before) claimed that Rollins' shouldn't have won the MVP because of: the Mets collapse was the only reason the team won the division, Chase Utley carried the team down the stretch (was it me didn't Utley do very much in the last two weeks - don't have the stats handy) and lastly, and best of all, that the PHILLIES WON THE DIVISION BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIEF PITCHING!!!! Did he not pay attention for 9/10 of the season??

RMP: This season, Jimmy Rollins grounded into 11 double plays. David Wright grounded into 14. I don't have the stats by month, but its clear that trying to undermine Wright's year because he grounded into 3 more DP's over the course of 162 games then Jimmy is pointless. Like I said in my original post, let's celebrate all the reasons Jimmy SHOULD be MVP, not try and denigrate Wright for stupid reasons.

David Wright led the Mets collapse as he was the focal point of interviews and questions about the team down the stretch. He and Randolph dismissed day after day that the Mets would lose the East. I think Wright made some key errors down the stretch as well.

Rollins led the Phils to the NL East title with bat, glove & leadership.

Jimmy deserved it.

Until they change the name of the award to the MSVP (Most Statistically Valuable Player) then these guys really have to quit whining like little girls. Theres a reason that the award is voted on by sports writers instead of decided by a computer.

dajafi: I'm puzzled by this statement about Snelling: "if he can stay healthy, there's almost no doubt the guy can hit."

Are you basing this on minor league stats from years ago? He's already logged enough big league PT (255 plate appearances) to establish evidence on this issue. His OPS+ is 97. He's got little power and his lifetime batting average is .240. He DOES have good OB skills and he can field pretty well. I like the pickup because he's young enough to have some upside. But to say "there's almost no doubt the guy can hit" is to fly in the face of factual evidence.

A lot of people down on the Estrada pickup for the Mets. Rob Neyer notes (ESPN Insider), "Since 2004, though, his numbers aren't nearly as impressive: .309 on-base percentage, .406 slugging. And much of that happened in Miller Park, a fairly neutral park. Estrada's a year older and moving to one of the toughest parks for hitters in the National League. He certainly won't be the worst catcher in the league, but I don't see many All-Star Games or .300 seasons in his future."

Buster Olney reminds us that Estrada's OBP last year was .296, 7th worst in the NL. He also said two teams have unloaded him because he's not committed to defense. And there are clubhouse issues.

Finally, his elbow problems last year made him the worst throwing catcher in baseball. We'll see if the surgery works...

wright never took control of a team spiraling out of control. the mets didn't ust lose every night. they lost in spectacular fashion while fighting with each other, management, and the umpires. they were a total mess. meanwhile the phillies were focused and never turned on each other and they could have easily ripped the bullpen. i can't say that it was all jimmy and david, but thats how it played out so that DQs wright from the mvp award.

Does anyone have a link that shows how the NY writers voted?

One other thing about Snelling:
There is at least the possibility that all these injuries have taken their toll. He's not a big muscular bruiser. It may be that he had trememndous talent, once, but getting hurt so often has eroded his abilities. Which may be why he was available in the Bargain Basement of the Dollar Store.

In re: Wright
Who cares? Jimmy won the award. Wright didn't. Everyone who complains about who gets the award should (especially national writers) should get a life. If Holliday had won instead of Rollins, I would have made a snide "still hasn't touched the plate" joke and gotten on with it.

Congratulations James Rollins, you worked your butt off for this team and deserve the recognition.

Andy, I would agree that Snelling's injuries likely have already taken a toll. It is a shame since it looks like he could rake. Look at his injury history. I haven't seen anything like this since Daulton.

* torn ACL (2002)
* knee surgery (2003)
* right knee tendinitis (2003)
* torn meniscus in the left knee (2005)
* surgery (2006)
* yet another knee surgery (2007).

clout, true, but the last adjustment is the toughest and--again, this is the whole story with Snelling--he hasn't stayed intact long enough to prove that he can or can't hit at the big-league level. OPS+ of 97 isn't great, but it's not Nunez either. I put more weight on his 2000-odd minor-league ABs than the 255 he's had over bits of four seasons in the Show.

To reiterate, though, I don't think he should be considered "the answer" as a part-time OF starter--it just wouldn't shock me if he emerged as such.

Andy: Very good point about Snelling injuries. It should also be noted that minor league success does not always translate into a major league career. History is stuffed with players who had dazzling minor league stats and wound up being fringe players or no players at all in the bigs.

jack - i'm not denigating wright, or saying that is the reason he shouldnt be MVP, i was simply pointing out that i remember following the mets and phillies down the stretch and in several key spots wright grounded into inning ending double plays...

i was not trying to make a case for or against anyone i was simply tossing what i remembered out there... sorry ill make sure to look up some stats next time i post

Jack:
in re: GIDP

Rollins grounded into 1DP in august/sept

Wright grounded into 8DP in august/sept, (5 in September)

it's a pretty silly debate, but those are the facts.

clout: I'm glad you said this about Snelling, because I was about to. He reminds me of Matt Kata. I don't know why people are so confident that he'll hit. He sure didn't do it last year, and teams have been discarding him almost as rapidly as J.D. Durbin.

RSB--remember that Durbin wasn't discarded because all those teams didn't like him, they just couldn't sneak him through waivers. They were all contenders, or considered themselves so. The Phils happened to luck out--and I suspect Durbin, who's always had talent, is in their bullpen plans as a long man for 2008.

Snelling's acquisition seems like deja vu all over again ...

"Gillick BS translator - We were able to pick this guy up cheaply since he has been injury-riddled. If he is healthy, which is a huge question mark, he might be a decent addition."

- MG's comments about Jayson Werth's acquisition, Dec. 19, 1:08 pm

Let's not make the mistake of believing every scrap-heap reclamation project Gillick flips a coin over is going to work out the way Werth did. As for Durbin, I find it hard to believe that all the teams who "lost" Durbin through waivers - Arizona, for one, which had stomached his first atrocious start - were all that broken up about it.

Anyone interested in taking a flyer on Scott Posednik. I'm sure he could be had for next to nothing, mostly cash?


Thoughts?

speaking of reclimation projects, should the phills persue troy percival?

i think considering the state of the high minors in the phillies organization, we may as well embark on any/all reclamation projects that are affordable.

We have the big club pretty much set...so takiing these kind of minimal risks seems like an ok idea. Its not like anyone is going to trade us a legitmiate prospect whose close to MLB ready any time soon, as is.

"It should also be noted that minor league success does not always translate into a major league career."

I seem to remember that our own Ruben Jr. fit this pattern.

"I think considering the state of the high minors in the phillies organization, we may as well embark on any/all reclamation projects that are affordable. "

I agree with this. For two seasons, the team has been forced to call up players on occasion who really have no business in the Majors. Sandoval. Thurston. Roberson. Brito. Ennis. The list goes on and on.

And being LV's first season, it wouldn't hurt to make the team a little more exciting. Hard to get excited about Pedro Swann and Gary Burnham.

So Snelling would be nice depth. Maybe an all-purpose fella like David Newhan would be nice. What about a ST invite to old friend Rheal Cormier? If your loogy goes down, that's a decent failsafe. Is he healthy/retired?

i think considering the state of the high minors in the phillies organization, we may as well embark on any/all reclamation projects that are affordable.

We have the big club pretty much set...so takiing these kind of minimal risks seems like an ok idea. Its not like anyone is going to trade us a legitmiate prospect whose close to MLB ready any time soon, as is.

mm - I *much* rather the Phils would have acquired Podsednik than Snelling - as a fifth outfielder, not a fourth. Better and more proven player, same type of hitter but with considerably more speed. But they probably would have had to have given a minor-league contract, and he probably can do better than that.

did you all know that David Newhan is represented by Scott Boras. isn't that weird?

Mike - Percival would be a nice add if the price was right, but last I read there were like 10 teams interested in him, so it might cause a bit of a bidding war.

Someone mentioned at the beginning of this post that Podsednik may be available.
That's a more realistic candidate for platooning or the 3rd/4th outfielder role.

dalafi - I am not worried about Snelling because it strikes me a depth acquisition more than anything because of the lack of alternatives at T-AAA.

Still, I don't understand why you think Snelling is likely to emerge as a capable hitter. Besides the health issues (he hasn't played in more than 110 games in any season since he was 19 back in '01), Snelling hasn't put up decent numbers since early in 2005. Plus, it is not like Snelling has never proven that he can hit at the MLB level.

Snelling is useful as a guy to add some depth to the outfield for spring training. However, a platoon of Werth/Snelling would be one of the worst if not the worst in the NL next year.

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EST. 2005

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